Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

abacomike · June 2017

jwm40517 said:

A niece of my wife just got her first car, a 2014 BMW 428i convertible. Girl can not even get her permit until September.

I was thinking back to high school graduation in 65 and mentioned to my father that a new Chevelle or GTO like some friends were getting would be nice. His reply was "you are out of school, get a job and buy one", so I did.

That's what I did. Graduated college in 1965 - got a job as a claims examiner for the NY State Department of Labor - bought a new 1966 red GTO after saving every penny for 8 months. 4-speed Hurst with black interior and red-line Tiger Paw Tires.. What a car!!!

ab348 · June 2017

abacomike said:
I think we have a 300+ foot high hill about 3 miles from where I live - we call it a garbage fill. All green from grass and trees they plant - but a "dump" is its proper name.

We are as flat as a pancake.

I remember one time when I visited Florida back in the '90s I had a rental car and decided to tour around the state for a few days. I recall driving through the Ocala area and realizing that was the first time I saw hills of any sort.

Your description of the garbage fill made me recall one of the few times that Don Cherry, a retired NHL coach and now a longtime fixture on nationally-televised games, made me laugh. They were showing a feature about him visiting a prison with a group of ex-players to entertain the inmates. It was almost out of SCTV or some similar comedy show. Film shows them driving up to the facility and Cherry's deadpan narration was "Here we are arriving. They told me we were going to visit a correctional institution, but it sure looked like a jail to me."

nyccarguy · June 2017

stickguy said:

That Fit could be a fun car. I assume it is going to get one of the turbo motors. That should make it a lot more interesting!

How cool would a Fit Si be?

ab348 · June 2017

I find most Fits around here are driven in an annoying manner. Remind me of mosquitoes. I imagine a Si would remind me of a bunch of buzzing hornets.

nyccarguy · June 2017

I've spoken at the last 3 funerals I've attended. One speech I quoted Jerry Seinfeld & in another, George Carlin.

driver100 · June 2017

Michaell said:

dino001 said:

Michaell said:
@abacomike - I was thinking about your amazing MPG stats on your 740. Isn't there something like 0 elevation change in Florida? I just looked it up - the highest point in the entire state is 345 feet above sea level in the panhandle.

What kind of mileage do you think you'd get if you had to go up and down - gasp! - a hill? Not to mention the mountains we have out west.

Add also the fact that the gas in many Mountain States has 2 octanes less on all levels, which is fine for naturally aspirated engines, not so much for turbocharged. I was wondering it myself, what would the gas mileage be for those great BMW motors, whether 2 or 3 litter.
I run 87 (mid grade) in the Jetta; seems to do just fine.

For grins, I oughta put a tank of 91 in it and see if I can notice a difference.

@breld has three turbos in his fleet.

Putting 91 in a car that runs on 87 octane is a complete waste of money from what I read recently. On one program they showed gas station guys telling customers the higher octane (more expensive) gas will make their cars run better.....according to the program it was complete nonsense.

driver100 · June 2017

nyccarguy said:
I've spoken at the last 3 funerals I've attended. One speech I quoted Jerry Seinfeld & in another, George Carlin.

Now that is a funeral I wouldn't mind going too!

tjc78 · June 2017

nyccarguy said:
I've spoken at the last 3 funerals I've attended. One speech I quoted Jerry Seinfeld & in another, George Carlin.

Major kudos for being able to do that. I wanted to speak at my Grandpop and Step Dad's service, but knew I'd never have been able to. When my Dad passed I was only 13, so wouldn't have been able to then either.

abacomike · June 2017

driver100 said:

I've spoken at the last 3 funerals I've attended. One speech I quoted Jerry Seinfeld & in another, George Carlin.

Now that is a funeral I wouldn't mind going too!

As long as it wasn't you in the coffin - right!

nyccarguy · June 2017

"I'm always relieved when someone is delivering a eulogy and I realize I'm listening to it" This is the Carlin quote I used speaking at my Brother In Law's funeral back in April.

“According to most studies, people's number one fear is public speaking. Number two is death. Death is number two. Does that sound right? This means to the average person, if you go to a funeral, you're better off in the casket than doing the eulogy.” I quoted Jerry Seinfeld at my Grandfather's funeral back in 2012

driver100 · June 2017

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

nyccarguy said:
I've spoken at the last 3 funerals I've attended. One speech I quoted Jerry Seinfeld & in another, George Carlin.

Now that is a funeral I wouldn't mind going too!

As long as it wasn't you in the coffin - right!

lol...hadn't thought of that!

Michaell · June 2017

nyccarguy said:
"I'm always relieved when someone is delivering a eulogy and I realize I'm listening to it" This is the Carlin quote I used speaking at my Brother In Law's funeral back in April.

“According to most studies, people's number one fear is public speaking. Number two is death. Death is number two. Does that sound right? This means to the average person, if you go to a funeral, you're better off in the casket than doing the eulogy.” I quoted Jerry Seinfeld at my Grandfather's funeral back in 2012

Both are great quotes

roadburner · June 2017

jwm40517 said:
A niece of my wife just got her first car, a 2014 BMW 428i convertible. Girl can not even get her permit until September.

I was thinking back to high school graduation in 65 and mentioned to my father that a new Chevelle or GTO like some friends were getting would be nice. His reply was "you are out of school, get a job and buy one", so I did.

I've seen similar a few times at work. Ugh. Many of you know that my son's first car was a 1975 2002. I told him if he kept his grades up, had no at-fault accidents and no tickets for one full year we'd renegotiate. He ended up with my wife's 9 year old X3.

fintail · June 2017

In my area, the Fit seems to attract consumers who think a Corolla is a bit too big and posh. This morning I got behind one going ~5 under, and it made a last second OMG!!! bailout from a turn lane. Good turn signal use though.

2002 or X3, tough choice. As 1975 would be an emissions car (unless removed), it could be irksome, but infinitely more stylish than the modern car, and those park bench bumpers are easily replaced.

nyccarguy · June 2017

@roadburner

Obviously I've got some time to think about this as my oldest is only turning 11 in September. Nevertheless, I do know that time flies. My grandma gave me money to buy my 1st car when I was 16, a 1992 Chevrolet Beretta GT (3.1L V6, White with White Wheels, & grey cloth interior). There are a few directions I can go in. Some I have picked up from you guys.

Since I have 3 kids that are less than 3 years apart from one another, I could buy a cheap, fun, stick shift equipped car like a Fit or a Civic Coupe or Hatchback with a turbo about a year before the oldest one starts to drive and have that be "the 1st car." Then after that, do something like a cheap lease to get them through college (provided they do well academically).

Sometime between now and then, I'm going to have to buy another car for my wife as well.

qbrozen · June 2017

fintail said:
In my area, the Fit seems to attract consumers who think a Corolla is a bit too big and posh. This morning I got behind one going ~5 under, and it made a last second OMG!!! bailout from a turn lane. Good turn signal use though.

2002 or X3, tough choice. As 1975 would be an emissions car (unless removed), it could be irksome, but infinitely more stylish than the modern car, and those park bench bumpers are easily replaced.

A Corolla is far more of a penalty box than a Fit. I've tried to squeeze into a Corolla. It is impossible. The Fit, however, is cavernous in comparison.

Michaell · June 2017

nyccarguy said:
@roadburner

Obviously I've got some time to think about this as my oldest is only turning 11 in September. Nevertheless, I do know that time flies. My grandma gave me money to buy my 1st car when I was 16, a 1992 Chevrolet Beretta GT (3.1L V6, White with White Wheels, & grey cloth interior). There are a few directions I can go in. Some I have picked up from you guys.

Since I have 3 kids that are less than 3 years apart from one another, I could buy a cheap, fun, stick shift equipped car like a Fit or a Civic Coupe or Hatchback with a turbo about a year before the oldest one starts to drive and have that be "the 1st car." Then after that, do something like a cheap lease to get them through college (provided they do well academically).

Sometime between now and then, I'm going to have to buy another car for my wife as well.

A few lessons learned the hard way:

1. Sedans are the cheapest to insure
2. The child should have 'skin in the game' - ideally, enough money in savings to cover the deductible if there is an accident. And, they have to replace that money before they get their privileges back

Don't know what the 'graduated license' program is in CT - but, the idea of no friends in the car is a good one.

qbrozen · June 2017

Saw an ad this morning in a magazine for the Toyota CHR. Any car company that looked at the Juke's relatively low sales (fewer than 20k in 2016) and thought "We need a piece of that action! And take away 2 doors!" should just pack it up.

stickguy · June 2017

many posts. some comments:

Bradd, send them to UConn, and won't need a car. or at least it is close enough for an old, high mile car (my son took the TL with 160K on it with him to college for the last 3 years). Only reason the princess has the Jetta instead of the old Volvo (other than being the princess) is her 450 mile each way drive on I95 to school, through DC and Richmond. That earned her the cheap lease. HS parking lots are nightmares. Get something already beat up for that duty.

The teaser Email for the new Fit showed a sport model. Could pass for an Si. No mention of the engine, but if it gets a version of the 1.5t and a stick, should be a hoot. And very faithful to the original Si concept. I could live with one of those!

Michael, my kids both knew there was a no-tollerance policy on cars I let them have. If they did something dangerous or stupid, car went away, and they walked or rode the bus. Having one was a convenience for me, but a privilege they had to earn. Their skin went toward college expenses.

stickguy · June 2017

one more thought. Making the first car an old one is better because can go with no comp or collision. Saves a fortune when you are assigning a young driver to it. Never had either on the TL.

graphicguy · June 2017

qbrozen said:
Saw an ad this morning in a magazine for the Toyota CHR. Any car company that looked at the Juke's relatively low sales (fewer than 20k in 2016) and thought "We need a piece of that action! And take away 2 doors!" should just pack it up.

I thought the same thing, Q. Who at Toyota did the marketing analytics and convinced management the CHR was a model they needed?

Those sales numbers will not be anything to brag about for Toyota.

andres3 · June 2017

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

dino001 said:

Michaell said:
@abacomike - I was thinking about your amazing MPG stats on your 740. Isn't there something like 0 elevation change in Florida? I just looked it up - the highest point in the entire state is 345 feet above sea level in the panhandle.

What kind of mileage do you think you'd get if you had to go up and down - gasp! - a hill? Not to mention the mountains we have out west.

Add also the fact that the gas in many Mountain States has 2 octanes less on all levels, which is fine for naturally aspirated engines, not so much for turbocharged. I was wondering it myself, what would the gas mileage be for those great BMW motors, whether 2 or 3 litter.
I run 87 (mid grade) in the Jetta; seems to do just fine.

For grins, I oughta put a tank of 91 in it and see if I can notice a difference.

@breld has three turbos in his fleet.
Putting 91 in a car that runs on 87 octane is a complete waste of money from what I read recently. On one program they showed gas station guys telling customers the higher octane (more expensive) gas will make their cars run better.....according to the program it was complete nonsense.

Turbos love higher octane, so it could be beneficial if you have a turbo. However, it depends on your ECU tuning. If the computer recognizes better octane I'm told it will gradually adjust upward over a period of time to take advantage. If it senses low octane issues, it'll quickly dive down. This is why they claim if you have a set tune for higher octane, you don't activate it until after your gas is a very pure higher octane fuel.

qbrozen · June 2017

graphicguy said:

qbrozen said:
Saw an ad this morning in a magazine for the Toyota CHR. Any car company that looked at the Juke's relatively low sales (fewer than 20k in 2016) and thought "We need a piece of that action! And take away 2 doors!" should just pack it up.
I thought the same thing, Q. Who at Toyota did the marketing analytics and convinced management the CHR was a model they needed?

Those sales numbers will not be anything to brag about for Toyota.

Maybe it is us who doesn't understand the business. Can a dismal failure be a tax writeoff? haha.

Michaell · June 2017

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

dino001 said:

Michaell said:
@abacomike - I was thinking about your amazing MPG stats on your 740. Isn't there something like 0 elevation change in Florida? I just looked it up - the highest point in the entire state is 345 feet above sea level in the panhandle.

What kind of mileage do you think you'd get if you had to go up and down - gasp! - a hill? Not to mention the mountains we have out west.

Add also the fact that the gas in many Mountain States has 2 octanes less on all levels, which is fine for naturally aspirated engines, not so much for turbocharged. I was wondering it myself, what would the gas mileage be for those great BMW motors, whether 2 or 3 litter.
I run 87 (mid grade) in the Jetta; seems to do just fine.

For grins, I oughta put a tank of 91 in it and see if I can notice a difference.

@breld has three turbos in his fleet.
Putting 91 in a car that runs on 87 octane is a complete waste of money from what I read recently. On one program they showed gas station guys telling customers the higher octane (more expensive) gas will make their cars run better.....according to the program it was complete nonsense.
Turbos love higher octane, so it could be beneficial if you have a turbo. However, it depends on your ECU tuning. If the computer recognizes better octane I'm told it will gradually adjust upward over a period of time to take advantage. If it senses low octane issues, it'll quickly dive down. This is why they claim if you have a set tune for higher octane, you don't activate it until after your gas is a very pure higher octane fuel.

In a few weeks, when I need gas again, I'll try 91 and see if it makes a difference.

Daughter puts 91 into her MINI Countryman S.

andres3 · June 2017

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:
@roadburner

Obviously I've got some time to think about this as my oldest is only turning 11 in September. Nevertheless, I do know that time flies. My grandma gave me money to buy my 1st car when I was 16, a 1992 Chevrolet Beretta GT (3.1L V6, White with White Wheels, & grey cloth interior). There are a few directions I can go in. Some I have picked up from you guys.

Since I have 3 kids that are less than 3 years apart from one another, I could buy a cheap, fun, stick shift equipped car like a Fit or a Civic Coupe or Hatchback with a turbo about a year before the oldest one starts to drive and have that be "the 1st car." Then after that, do something like a cheap lease to get them through college (provided they do well academically).

Sometime between now and then, I'm going to have to buy another car for my wife as well.
A few lessons learned the hard way:

1. Sedans are the cheapest to insure
2. The child should have 'skin in the game' - ideally, enough money in savings to cover the deductible if there is an accident. And, they have to replace that money before they get their privileges back

Don't know what the 'graduated license' program is in CT - but, the idea of no friends in the car is a good one.

1. Actually, wagons and mini-vans should be the cheapest to insure. Also, old man cars probably do well.

2. I like the idea of financial skin in the game. An "accident" should be a costly mistake; punished heavily, especially for the person that causes one. I'd be lenient on tickets because, well, can't be a hypocrite and most that are written have no relation or correlation to safety.

3. Not sure no friends in the car is a good rule. A full load of friend might be a bad idea, but having one passenger is probably a good thing. Something called shared awareness that can come in handy. Shared awareness is why talking to someone in the car isn't dangerous compared to talking on a cell phone (even if hands-free). The person on the phone can't yell out "watch out!"

stickguy · June 2017

In NJ, the graduated licensing rules already include limits on people in he car. And my rule was, you follow the states rules!

dino001 · June 2017

Michaell said:

Daughter puts 91 into her MINI Countryman S.

That one because it was required/recommended by the manufacturer. BMW wants premium for all its current engines.

murphydog · June 2017

Garage test

So I cleared out the garage and I was pleased to see the truck fit. Thank goodness for the back up camera!

That is about 1 inch between the bumper and the door

qbrozen · June 2017

That's exactly how tight the fit is for my Coronet.

bwia · June 2017

qbrozen said:
Saw an ad this morning in a magazine for the Toyota CHR. Any car company that looked at the Juke's relatively low sales (fewer than 20k in 2016) and thought "We need a piece of that action! And take away 2 doors!" should just pack it up.

Good point but the CHR is aimed at Gen Zers, the children of Gen X.

"Many would assume there are a wealth of similarities between Gen Zers and millennials, when in fact there are differences exist between the two. According to Sparks & Honey, Gen Zers enjoy the feeling of making a difference, so it's safe to assume that they would purchase products from a company that conducts itself ethically.

Ford research complements Sparks & Honey's almost identically, also finding that Gen Zers aren't ones to skimp out on conducting research. For example, one instance found that Gen Zers are "acutely aware of where ingredients come from and find more enjoyment in how their meals are prepared."

...In addition, ensuring the materials used to manufacture that automobile were sourced under ethical circumstances (in regard to social and environmental concerns) is a likely priority of theirs. In summation, Gen Zers will look for cars that are reliable, will last them a long time, are fuel-efficient and responsibly produced."

So if Toyota can demonstrate a commitment to sustainability (people, planet, & profits) as well as well as an earned reputation for ethical behavior and social responsibility it has a market with unlimited potential for the CHR. Can't say the same for the Juke though.
Read more at: http://www.strategicsourceror.com/2014/12/what-do-gen-zers-want-out-of-car.html

bwia · June 2017

murphydog said:
Garage test

So I cleared out the garage and I was pleased to see the truck fit. Thank goodness for the back up camera!

That is about 1 inch between the bumper and the door

Don't forget to fold the mirrors though.

stickguy · June 2017

So gen Z are late teens now? Hard to keep up. I assume my 26YO son is a millennial, and always assumed my 21YO daughter was too.

I'm just old.

stickguy · June 2017

And the way these kids are glued to smart phones, caring about ethics only stretches so far!

ab348 · June 2017

The Toyota CHR looks to me like a Nissan Juke rear-ended a RAV4 hard and got impact-welded together.

I think the first car for new drivers ought to be something safe, solid and cheap. Maybe a 10 year-old Buick or similar.

abacomike · June 2017

andres3 said:

So we all agree that it's better to attend a wedding rather than a funeral?

Also, we all prefer buying a car to a wedding, right? Of course, I could do without all the excessive paperwork in CA. I imagine other States are a bit more streamlined.

As for the "wedding" preference, I am quite sure GG is in sync with that one!

tjc78 · June 2017

qbrozen said:

That's exactly how tight the fit is for my Coronet.

Yeah but not backup cam or sensors to guide you in!!

I lugged a loveseat and chair to my sister in laws a few weekends ago. It didn't quite fit in the Enclave so the rear hatch was open a few inches. Well, this made the parking sensors disabled and back up cam useless. Naturally I had to parallel park the beast with no aids! At least I could still do it.

murphydog · June 2017

bwia said:

murphydog said:
Garage test

So I cleared out the garage and I was pleased to see the truck fit. Thank goodness for the back up camera!

That is about 1 inch between the bumper and the door
Don't forget to fold the mirrors though.

I sort of addressed that when I rebuilt the garage, I went 1 foot higher and 1 foot wider on the door. No problems getting through the door now, just did not have the foresight to make it 1 foot deeper.

jmonroe · June 2017

abacomike said:

Michaell said:

@abacomike - I was thinking about your amazing MPG stats on your 740. Isn't there something like 0 elevation change in Florida? I just looked it up - the highest point in the entire state is 345 feet above sea level in the panhandle.

What kind of mileage do you think you'd get if you had to go up and down - gasp! - a hill? Not to mention the mountains we have out west.

I would get 20% less mpg for sure. I think we have a 300+ foot high hill about 3 miles from where I live - we call it a garbage fill. All green from grass and trees they plant - but a "dump" is its proper name.

We are as flat as a pancake.

Would this be the landfill across from The Festival Flea Market on W Sample Rd in Pompano Beach ?

I have been to that place many times. The Flea not the dump.

I'll let you explain the Flea to out poster buddies.

Hint to our poster buddies: it's not a typical Flea Market.

jmonroe

fintail · June 2017

If I had devilspawn, parentally-aided first cars would be something like a MB W123/124 - relatively affordable, relatively safe, stylish enough to be hip, and will teach maintenance. Or if they aren't into that, mid-00s Camry, safe, boring, doesn't need the maintenance.

graphicguy · June 2017

abacomike said:

andres3 said:

So we all agree that it's better to attend a wedding rather than a funeral?

Also, we all prefer buying a car to a wedding, right? Of course, I could do without all the excessive paperwork in CA. I imagine other States are a bit more streamlined.

As for the "wedding" preference, I am quite sure GG is in sync with that one!

Mike...'ya got that right!

driver100 · June 2017

murphydog said:
Garage test

So I cleared out the garage and I was pleased to see the truck fit. Thank goodness for the back up camera!

That is about 1 inch between the bumper and the door

Let's see where the back bumper is....hopefully not 4 1/2 feet from the wall!

murphydog · June 2017

driver100 said:

murphydog said:
Garage test

So I cleared out the garage and I was pleased to see the truck fit. Thank goodness for the back up camera!

That is about 1 inch between the bumper and the door
Let's see where the back bumper is....hopefully not 4 1/2 feet from the wall!

Lol,light is bad, but just as snug

murphydog · June 2017

jmonroe · June 2017

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

dino001 said:

Michaell said:
@abacomike - I was thinking about your amazing MPG stats on your 740. Isn't there something like 0 elevation change in Florida? I just looked it up - the highest point in the entire state is 345 feet above sea level in the panhandle.

What kind of mileage do you think you'd get if you had to go up and down - gasp! - a hill? Not to mention the mountains we have out west.

Add also the fact that the gas in many Mountain States has 2 octanes less on all levels, which is fine for naturally aspirated engines, not so much for turbocharged. I was wondering it myself, what would the gas mileage be for those great BMW motors, whether 2 or 3 litter.
I run 87 (mid grade) in the Jetta; seems to do just fine.

For grins, I oughta put a tank of 91 in it and see if I can notice a difference.

@breld has three turbos in his fleet.
Putting 91 in a car that runs on 87 octane is a complete waste of money from what I read recently. On one program they showed gas station guys telling customers the higher octane (more expensive) gas will make their cars run better.....according to the program it was complete nonsense.

Damn, now you tell me after I poured gallons of the good stuff all over the roads of PA while experimenting.

I told this tale before; I got more umph from a cold morning in November '09, while merging onto the PA pike with my '09 Genny with it's V8, than I did experimenting between 87 octane vs. 93 octane about a dozen times after I got the '09 in March of '09. Cold air input trumps a couple octane when RUG is all a car requires. I think the '09 Genny's specs said premium (93 octane) produced 8 more HP.

It probably did on a test stand but I couldn't tell the difference on various roads under varying conditions but I sure could on that first cold morning stomp in November with the 87 octane stuff.

jmonroe

jmonroe · June 2017

murphydog said:
Garage test

So I cleared out the garage and I was pleased to see the truck fit. Thank goodness for the back up camera!

That is about 1 inch between the bumper and the door

That's not a pick up... that's a sardine.

jmonroe

qbrozen · June 2017

tjc78 said:

Yeah but not backup cam or sensors to guide you in!!

I lugged a loveseat and chair to my sister in laws a few weekends ago. It didn't quite fit in the Enclave so the rear hatch was open a few inches. Well, this made the parking sensors disabled and back up cam useless. Naturally I had to parallel park the beast with no aids! At least I could still do it.

Ha. was going to say that, too. Not even a passenger sideview mirror, which makes backing it in impossible. So I have to pull in head first, as far right as possible so I can still open the door, and just creep up till I tap the handle on my tire machine. This with manual steering and manual brakes, mind you. I have maybe 4 inches to spare between front and rear total.

Mr_Shiftright · June 2017

dino001 said:

jwm40517 said:
A niece of my wife just got her first car, a 2014 BMW 428i convertible. Girl can not even get her permit until September.

I was thinking back to high school graduation in 65 and mentioned to my father that a new Chevelle or GTO like some friends were getting would be nice. His reply was "you are out of school, get a job and buy one", so I did.
Yeah, a convertible BMW is what a teenager needs to have their head level and see the world in right prroportions.

Sounds like girl meets ditch to me, hopefully not fatally.

tbirdmarco · June 2017

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MpGwiF792E0

stickguy · June 2017

would look better without the cladding, or at least in a darker color.

oldfarmer50 · June 2017

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

dino001 said:

Michaell said:
@abacomike - I was thinking about your amazing MPG stats on your 740. Isn't there something like 0 elevation change in Florida? I just looked it up - the highest point in the entire state is 345 feet above sea level in the panhandle.

What kind of mileage do you think you'd get if you had to go up and down - gasp! - a hill? Not to mention the mountains we have out west.

Add also the fact that the gas in many Mountain States has 2 octanes less on all levels, which is fine for naturally aspirated engines, not so much for turbocharged. I was wondering it myself, what would the gas mileage be for those great BMW motors, whether 2 or 3 litter.
I run 87 (mid grade) in the Jetta; seems to do just fine.

For grins, I oughta put a tank of 91 in it and see if I can notice a difference.

@breld has three turbos in his fleet.
Putting 91 in a car that runs on 87 octane is a complete waste of money from what I read recently. On one program they showed gas station guys telling customers the higher octane (more expensive) gas will make their cars run better.....according to the program it was complete nonsense.
Damn, now you tell me after I poured gallons of the good stuff all over the roads of PA while experimenting.

I told this tale before; I got more umph from a cold morning in November '09, while merging onto the PA pike with my '09 Genny with it's V8, than I did experimenting between 87 octane vs. 93 octane about a dozen times after I got the '09 in March of '09. Cold air input trumps a couple octane when RUG is all a car requires. I think the '09 Genny's specs said premium (93 octane) produced 8 more HP.

It probably did on a test stand but I couldn't tell the difference on various roads under varying conditions but I sure could on that first cold morning stomp in November with the 87 octane stuff.

jmonroe

Ford says 91 but that it will run fine on 87 with 5% loss of power.

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