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Synthetic motor oil

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  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Yes, Mobil 1 0W-40 is certified VW 502.00 compliant (as are Castrol Syntec 5W-40 and Castrol Syntec 0W-30), so you can top-off with no worries. :)

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    What oil specifications does your Jetta call for? The Castrol syntec 5w40 may or may not be the correct oil.

    I know for example Mobil One 0w40 is probably just fine for the Jetta. However it is always better to know and understand what the specifications are, whether you comply with them or deviate.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    The required VW spec is 502 for our 2.5 Jetta and it specifies 5W-40. Castrol syntec does meet 502 and it is what our dealer uses. I bought the mobil1, when I couldn't find the right weight of syntec, because I remembered that it met the VW spec (I didn't think of the fact that I could just have read the labels on the other brands, until just a little while ago :) )
    .
    I was just wondering if there was any potential issue with mixing 0W with 5W.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Negative no.

    Between the two Mobil One normally yields better UOA's, but it does seem you are more concerned with the negative implications.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Yeah, I guess I should have said "problems" rather than "issues". Thanks to both of you for confirming that this will not be a problem.
  • bassprobasspro Member Posts: 34
    Here is my two cents, if you you need to know if the specs are close to the same,google motor oil evaluator and it lists about 800 different motor oils for review.

    Also if you are really curious about compatibility with the residual oil left behind by by the other brand,there is no compatibility issues.

    If you are truly concerned about the condition of your motor, have the old oil Exxon SF you take out analyzed, and then analyze the QC when you pull it.

    As a general rule (without analysis) you can go around 5,000 miles and or three months with a safe level TBN number, most of the time.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I just bought a pair of 5 quart jugs of Mobil 1 15W-50. After a few hundred more miles on the clock, this will be my next oil change for my 2007 Triumph Rocket III. I also plan to change the oil in my 2005 Ford Escape next time to the Quaker State Q 5W-20 I bought during the "intro" sale. For the record, I got it all at Walmart. Now that the really low prices on brand name petroleum oils seem to be gone for ever, the economics of using full synthetic products with extended OCI seems appealing again.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes, I have researched the engines of interest to me and have concluded to extend OCI's from 15,000 to 20,000 miles (Mobil One 5w30,0w30) and 2 to 25,000 miles. (1. Mobil One TDT, Delvac One 5w40, 2. Total Quartz INEO 5w30 VW 507.00).
    I have also researched Mobil One MB 229.1 5w40 and MObil One 5w30 VW 507.00 I might go to one or the other when my Total Quartz INEO supply runs out.

    I have kept one @ 20,000 miles (Mobil One 5w20, 0w20) as the oil filter change oem recommendation is @ 20,000 miles also so it just seems logical to do them all together.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Remarkably, Triumph calls for 10K OCIs on their 2.3 liter 3 cylinder engine in the Rocket III, provided synlube such as the recommended Mobil 1 15W-50 is used. I have run essentially 3K OCIs for the first 11K miles with quality petrolube 20W-50. In typical Euro motard style, Triumph requires separate drains for a front and a rear sump, plus a 3rd drain for the remote tank. This engine requires just "fashionably" less than 6 quarts of lube, and the overall configuration is quite automotive, except for the same-case transmission that shares lubrication with the engine. I look forward to living with 10K or longer OCIs!
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,202
    OK, lets say you are an oil change fanatic and change your conventional oil every 3000 miles. (Yeah, I know you think that's too often but let's keep on track)

    How often would you change a full synthetic to keep your fanatic level the same?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    5K

    I'd fit your profile. I've always done 3K w/conventional, but in the last year have started using syn @ 5K. Oil and filters are just soo cheap comparatively speaking, there's really no need to risk long OCI's.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I think 5000 miles for synthetic is more fanatical than 3000 on conventional. I'm pretty sure you should go 2x to maintain a consistent level of fanaticism. ;)

    As a non fanatic, as long as we are not talking about cars with turbos or anything, I figure 5000 miles is good for conventional and 10K for synthetic.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    10K sounds about right to me. I've always suspected that the bet is safer if you are using diester or polyol ester base synthetic.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,218
    Tend to agree with you on these mileage figures...synthetic is supposed to be so good that a longer interval time surly makes sense. My local mechanic has synthetic for $44.00 which sounds pretty good and he's encouraged me to do it. That would be a once a year change interval for me since I probably won't even hit 4.5k miles driven on my car this year. My spinal issues have made me cut back on almost all non essential driving so I do it mainly to get to work and see my doctor monthly. Other family members have been doing all the other driving chores for me, which is turning out to be a great thing. Just don't feel the love of driving anymore :-(.

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    I used to be that way. Every 2.5 - 3K. If it went over 3K I started going into shock until I could get it changed. But after doing hours of research and reading on these forums and other places, I have settled on a 10K M1 change for all my vehicles. Saves me a lot of time and money since that only occurs once a year 2 of my vehicles and every 9 months for another. I could probably go more, but 10K is a nice easy round number to remember and I've set so that it hits at numbers like 120K, 130K and so on...
  • ralph1970ralph1970 Member Posts: 28
    I change my oil once a year. I have been doing this for over 20 years and have never had an engine problem. I drive about 20k per year. I always pull a sample of oil and send it to Oil Analyzers to see if it did need to be changed or if I'm having a problem with my engine. I use only Amsoil with an Amsoil oil filter. Why waste good oil if what your putting in is no better than what your draining out.
  • rhiebertrhiebert Member Posts: 10
    Aren't there two driving conditions covered by Owner's Manuals?: 1.) normal, ie. trips that are longer than just a short trips and relatively minimal stops - requiring longer OCI; 2:) severe -short trips with many stops, requiring OCI closer to the normal and traditional 3,000 miles/5,000 kms or three months - whichever comes first. Oil analysis for less than 14 quarts is not cost effective but can show information about the engine that would be useful for detecting deficiencies invisible any other way.
    The 7,500 - (6 months), 25,000 and even 35,000 (one year) options with the above mention brand shows what protection is offered but you still need to be sensible about the how long you go before an oil change/oil analysis.
  • ralph1970ralph1970 Member Posts: 28
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Indeed, using good sense based on real research and experience should lead to a reasonable OCI for whatever petrolube or synlube you select. Several years back, petroleum oils got so inexpensive from sources like Checker that I went that way for all my vehicles. Of late, the game seems to be over, and the bang for the buck is back in the synthetic oil products, presuming you shop for price. An easy cost per mile analysis is all it takes to make a sound choice. Vehicles that require special lubes are a possible exception, of course.
  • ralph1970ralph1970 Member Posts: 28
    It costs $6.75 for a quart of synthetic oil and $22.55 for the oil analysis. With a filter it costs me about $83 per year (with tax and freight) for an oil change and knowing everything is OK. You need to compare that to what that is costing you and what the wear is on your engine. It has always worked for me.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Aren't there two driving conditions covered by Owner's Manuals?

    Yes, often there are. But, my wife's VW, which requires synthetic, has only one schedule listed...10,000 mi or 12 months.

    severe -short trips with many stops, requiring OCI closer to the normal and traditional 3,000 miles/5,000 kms or three months - whichever comes first.

    No, I don't think they are usually that extreme any more. For my 2007 Mazda that schedule is 5000 miles or 4 months...and that is with conventional, not synthetic oil.
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    The manual for my 1.8T 2003 VW gives a 5,000 mile OCI, but says that it may need to be more frequent if driving under severe conditions. 'Course, that's an engine with a turbo and teeny, tiny sump. VW 502.00 synth (or better) is required.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Yeah, our VW manual also says something like that, but no specifics are given. I don't know if that means we are supposed to agree to the window stickers that the dealer puts on, which indicate 3 months or 5000 miles ;) .

    3 months for us would be about 2000 miles...I'm not about to change full synthetic on that schedule.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The manual for 1.9 TDI 2003 VW turbo diesel gives a 10,000 miles OCI. The sump for discussion purposes is app 4.5 qt.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Anymore (in my case, for a long while and a lot of miles) a heavily weighted factor has become the engine design that will allow for so called "extended" OCI's.

    This is a tad like a rubber ruler in that in the USA that can set off "emergency alarms" and panic overloads @3001 miles- just waiting for the engine to literally BLOW UP !! :surprise:

    Europe in contrast than can mean 30,001 miles. :shades:

    The US market seems to have a pretty high incidence of sludge a matics. So the first order of business is to make sure an engine and model and oem line was NOT selected. So for (only) example, Toyota has settled without admitting guilt, a series of engine models that are put in any number of platforms.

    Many look to synthetic oils to eliminate sludge issues, but let me assure you any engine that "cooks" oil (consistently and normally exceeds the flash point of oil) will eventually sludge. It is true that certain synthetics are just less prone to sludging, aka have a higher flash point.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    If the complaining customer with a failed engine does not have to submit to a polygraph examination, I suspect all oil changes, synthetic or cracked, could be what-- 3000 miles? :confuse:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    LOL !! Or 1,500 miles, whether it needed it or not ! ;)

    The real crime (no guilt of course acknowledged or intented admitted or declared ) is that it allows the continued sale of sludge-a-matics with minimal to no re-design or re-specifications needed !! So for example, I have not bought a Toyota Camry (sludge a matics) for going on 24 years. This is not to single out one manufacturer. There is literally a laundry list of oems and models. "Let the force be with you, Luke" and don't cross over to the DARK (sludge-a-matic) side ! ;)

    UPSHOT: do one's homework and buy only those oems and models that have extended oil changes and are not "has been" sludge a matics repackaged for modern day consumption with sexy new body coverings.

    TOYOTA DEAL: HERE COMES THE SLUDGE JUDGE
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I've always suspected that the decision to replace a sludged engine is based on marketing damage control rather than substantive evidence from the complaining party. What do you think? By the way, About16 months ago I bought my wife a new 2009 Pontiac Vibe AWD with a Camry 2.4 I4 engine, thinking it is not a known sludger. Was I right?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Onw way to triangulate the information is to pop off that valve cover (actually have the dealer do this) . Hopefully you dodged that sword !! :)
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    After so many months, the odo shows under 5K miles, so I'll pass on that for now, and we have the warranty in effect. There are no symptoms, just my interest in such matters causes me to even ask! These Vibes are Matrixes (matrices?) manufactured in Fremont, California. They're nice rigs.
  • ralph1970ralph1970 Member Posts: 28
    The Toyota sludge problem was 10 years ago. It wouldn't stop me from buying a Toyota in the future. It pays to use the best oil and to monitor how the oil is doing. If the oxidation and nitration are getting high, sludge and vanish are going to form. You can use cheap oil and change it more often, or the best and get extended drain intervals, with less wear and sludge in your engine.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >Toyota sludge problem was 10 years ago. It wouldn't stop me from buying a Toyota in the future.

    The problem is in their not admitting the sludging in a timely manner. Dealers were ridiculing customers as though they hadn't taken care of the motors, at the time that Toyo knew they had problems. They even made minor changes to the physical engine to try to reduce the problem. How would they treat a new problem? Admit or cover up--such as downshifting problems in transmission and computer control?

    I thought synthetics weren't sludge prone.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Take a look at this commercial website for some basic sludging info, and remember that it is a commercial site with something to "sell".
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."The Toyota sludge problem was 10 years ago. It wouldn't stop me from buying a Toyota in the future."...

    Actually, the same has been true for me. Since that time, I have owned 5 Toyota Landcruisers. All have run a min of 15,000 miles OCI's. One was sold with app 250,000 miles on it. Another was sold to a MB diesel mechanic because he wanted it. I did state upfront I ran 15,000 miles OCI's and he looked at me with an attitude like... so what? My more recent ones run 20,000 miles OCI's and one is at 170,000 miles. (Garage king/queen). But the key here: those engines (I6's) have never been "sludge a matics"..... which really was the original point.

    So anyone who buys products mentioned in the class action cases is in effect forewarned. I frankly do not know of the Toyota policy that says in effect, don't worry, we will fix the sludge problem with no hassles...
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Nor do we necessarily know that Toyota has re-engineered the offending engines, or even removed them from the line up. My recollection is that the Toyota inline 4s were not involved. All offenders were V6 engines. :confuse:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Unfortunately I had a 4 cyl 1985 Toyota Camry "sludge a matic". At the time I did dealer serviced 2,500 mile OCI's with conventional oil, Castrol GTX if I remember correctly 5w30. In addition this car had many other problems despite it being super well rated (at the time) by Consumer Reports.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I'm no expert on the reality and reliability of the various rating outfits, but I have OFTEN noted the seeming bias favoring Asian motor vehicles displayed at Consumers Union. Eventually I came to realize that the ratings folks are pretty much east coast oriented, or so it seems from my perspective. Here in the mountain zone, some factors affecting ratings are a bit different than the factors in the east. I continue to subscribe, and I use their ratings that I feel I can depend on here in my latitude and longitude!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >I continue to subscribe,

    I suggest just reading CR at the local public library or the magazine stand. Also, there are databases (EBSCOhost) which I can use via my library to read most periodicals in a timely manner and CR is available after 3 months in PDF format online! While many people like and trust their ratings, I read them with a grain of salt looking for their inconsistencies in statements showing a preference between vehicles and other things where it's only their opinion.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    It seems that ebsco thing no longer has a 3 month delay on CR. I've been able to see the "current" issue (meaning the one with the current month printed on it) for a while, since sometime in spring I think. For example, I can see the full text PDFs of the August issue right now.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >I can see the full text PDFs of the August issue

    Great!. :) Thanks for correcting my time line. I'll take advantage of that. :shades:

    Now if the local library can just upgrade their AllData subscription to include home terminals!!! instead of having to use it in the library... ;)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ralph1970ralph1970 Member Posts: 28
    I just got the oil analysis back from my annual oil change. Everything was within the normal range and the oil was still good for use after over 13k of driving the past year. (With higher gas prices the past year, we have cut way back on our driving).
    The oil didn't need to be changed, but I do change the oil and filter once a year.

    It costs me about $90 a year to use synthetic oil, and with gas at about $2 a gallon, I save about $65 a year with better gas mileage using synthetic oil. I also know that there is less wear in the engine because all the wear metals in the oil are very low. I have been using Amsoil and doing annual oil changes for over 30 years now and it has worked for me.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    :blush: You are one of the few tha have used the oil analysis and have actually started to go so called extended OCI's. So now you just really have to become more at comfort with reading and interpreting what all those figures mean.

    A quick and dirty (read- but you didn't post the actual data) is your synthetic oil is really at the sweet spot (@13,000 miles) and 15,000 to 20,000 miles are almost a slam dunk. In fact, wear is HIGHLY aggressive when oil is new (0 to 3,000 miles). So oxymoronically when folks do 3,000 mile OCI's, they are effecting the highest and most aggressive wear patterns !! This is even as they are being told this highly aggressive wear patterns are ... good for the engine !! You in effect do not see the new oil SPIKE as over time, it smooths out over time and you are in effect seeing the AVERAGE and cummulative effects @ the 13k mark. So by pulling the oil "prematurely" you are not giving the oil the time and repetitions it was DESIGNED to dispense what it was truly designed to do, over repetition of miles. Again this is simple to verfiy or debunk. Just draw a sample @ 3,000 miles or less and send it to Blackstone (or whomever you use) and compare the wear results.

    So for example, there are three measurements you should evaluate the oil in your case @ 13,000 miles. 1. totals are important 2. The first is that generic engines AVERAGE per thousand miles 3.your specific analysis, again. per thousand miles.

    Here is one that I follow:

    Calculated by dividing total wear metals by miles in thousands. The national average is 6.538 ppm total wear metals, less Mn and Ni. This is based on 51 ppm total / 7800 miles by Blackstone.

    TDI Club Ave : 6.614 ppm. ~~~~~~ Club Ave. OCI : 9808 mi. 5/19/09

    link title

    Suppose your results are in the "top 10" range of 2.252 to 3.144 ppm. You do not wanted to exceed the "average" and you wanted to let the OCI go as long as possible. So your range is 6.614 ppm / (*9,808 miles) 2.252 ppm to 3.144 ppm per 1,000 miles = 2.94 to 2.104 =

    28,835 miles to 20,636 miles OCI.

    So for example since I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy, I cap it at 25,000 miles. (round numbers)I know full well the oil filter and engine oils are designed for 30,000 miles OCI's !! :surprise: ;) :shades: At 120,000 miles I have changed the oil (after recommended break ins) the last 4 times. The thing runs like the proverbial top.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    :) That's very encouraging and informative!

    By the way, I put 5 quarts of Mobil 1 15W-50 in the crankcase of my Triumph Rocket III and have ridden 200 miles plus. The subjective improvements to clutch and engine response are just so outstanding.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    When it comes to bikes, I will have to plead clueless. But at the same time everything is probably MAGNIFIED in that the power to weight ratios of motor cycles are very superior to cars.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    At least until the rider climbs on! :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think some brands of motorcycle require a pot belly :P
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    The Triumph Rocket III can haul one!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I cannot even LOOK at that bike without weeping in anguish, sorry. :cry:

    Synthetic should be great for any motorcycle engine I would think, given the high heat, high revs, etc.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Anguish? :confuse:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I used to own and ride classic Triumphs so I'm not about to cozy up to the styling (??) on that bike, is what I meant. Sorry to veer off topic there.
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