Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

abacomike · July 2017

carnaught said:
@abacomike, glad to hear the news about your bloodwork. Keep up the great trend!

Thanks, Will - appreciate your kind wishes, as always.

jmonroe · July 2017

driver100 said:

graphicguy said:
Another reason why I like making one "all in" offer. Dealer can add anything they want to the car...doc fee, etching, locking lug nuts, wax, scotch guard, etc. My offer is all in, price of the car, tax, license. How the dealer divides up my one number doesn't matter to me. What I come out of pocket with is my offer only, including everything.
I am not entirely sold on "all in pricing" unless you know the price you are going in with is rock bottom.

I took a competitors ad to my Jeep dealer for a 2000 Cherokee....it seemed really low to me....I said, if you can match this price, I'll buy a new Cherokee today. He said, to my great surprise, I can do even better than that, and he did. A was returning a leased car so he didn't make it on the trade.

I like an all in deal....I would be careful how to do it.

If I went back to buy a BMW I would do it this way. First I would get my facts....decide on the price I will accept. Might even go to another dealer first to see what they say. Then I would go in and tell him he has one chance.....come up with the lowest price possible, or I am walking. Last time they offered $4000 below market for the trade in saying they had too many of them in inventory.

I think sometimes their price might even be lower than what I have in mind...I might as well find out

I'm not worried about a final OTD price because I know how to add the taxes and the doc fee and I've never had an ADM sticker on any car I have ever bought. So I didn't have to be concerned with how to back-out that price. But I don't like the way you did it either by saying, "can you match this price"?

When I was getting ready to buy the 2006 Sonata for Mrs. j in 2006, I got an email price from the Hyundai dealer across town because Son #1 thought I needed help. I didn't ask him to do it but he put his nose in it anyhow. He had them send the email directly to me, so that is how I got that email price. The price was very good but I wanted to see what the local guy had rather than running across town.

I went to the local guy with my folder but I did not open it. The salesman said, "I guess you have something in there from another dealer, right"? I told him I did. He now wants to see it. I told him the other guy didn't need to see anything to give me his price, so I felt it would be unfair to show it to him. He wanted to know why I brought it in. I told him that was my way of telling him that I had another offer. He goes on to say, "so you want me to match an offer that I can't even see in writing". I told him he was wrong. I told him he had to beat the offer I had in writing. He then said, "by how much". I'm now irritated and I got up to leave. He says, "OK, OK, let me go get you a price from my manager on the car you just test drove". Damn, that was like pulling teeth. He came back with a better price by about $300. Then he says he can't sell me the car that day because he didn't have all the paper work with the car because the car had arrived just the day before and the manufacture doesn't send all of what is needed to sell cars when they ship cars. He said something about security in case of theft during transport. OK, that sounds logical. He tells me that we can do the paper work now, take a deposit, and in a day or two he'd call me when his paperwork came in. I told him we'd do ALL the paper work when he had ALL of his paperwork.

Long story short he didn't call me in 2 days so I called him and left a message. He didn't call me back that day, so I bought from the guy across town the next day and that guy lowered his price another $200 from his email price without me even telling him what was going on with the local guy. You know where this is going. 3 days later the local guy calls and tells me they have everything, "so come and get it". When I told him, "too late", he was shocked. He told me he got my message but was too busy to call me back.

We have all heard that a guy dealing with a salesman right now is more important than a guy that isn't in the show room at that particular time. But I never thought that a guy that was ready to sign on the bottom line wasn't a real buyer. I won't deny that I thought about this a couple of times wondering if they were playing some kind of a game. In the end, I'll never know but I know I wasn't playing any games.

My feeling about car buying is, "give me one price for what you want for your car". I'll decide if it is good enough for me. Maybe you can match what I have in mind or maybe you can do better.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright · July 2017

driver100 said:

fintail said:
The Testarossa in driver's pic isn't a Testarossa indeed, that's a 512TR. the final run of cars with that body.

Get well soon both firefighter and ab - I hope this isn't a trend of people needing medical help, I want to think I got that out of my system for the foreseeable future.
Right Fintail. Interesting story behind it at the Legendary website:

1995 Ferrarri 512M

LMC is very proud to offer for sale this 1995 Ferrari 512M.

In the mid-90s, Ferrari was seeing major competition to their Testarossa from Lamborghini, Porsche, and even the new Acura NSX. Ferrari decided they had to make a final version of the Testarossa to continue to compete with the immediate competitors and the 512M was the solution. It saw improvements in suspension, braking, and a rise in horsepower. Upon completion of production in 1996, there were just 501 examples produced worldwide, with only 75 of them being built for and delivered to the USA.

I like the way they do the vents on the side;

I think these dealers just keep selling cars to each other. It seemed quite a few cars came from Bob Johnson.

Pretty ambitious price, and not that desirable a car to collectors. Buyer's market on this one. Most later (post Fiat) Ferrari prices are declining.

stickguy · July 2017

I might have a price in mind, but I always ask them for their offer first. You never know.

andres3 · July 2017

stickguy said:
I might have a price in mind, but I always ask them for their offer first. You never know.

If they let you walk on your "low" offer, then you know the same information (at least that your offer was lower than their number).

stickguy · July 2017

but not how much. And if you make the first offer, does not matter what theirs was going to be, in now became higher than yours.

houdini1 · July 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:
The Testarossa in driver's pic isn't a Testarossa indeed, that's a 512TR. the final run of cars with that body.

Get well soon both firefighter and ab - I hope this isn't a trend of people needing medical help, I want to think I got that out of my system for the foreseeable future.
Right Fintail. Interesting story behind it at the Legendary website:

1995 Ferrarri 512M

LMC is very proud to offer for sale this 1995 Ferrari 512M.

In the mid-90s, Ferrari was seeing major competition to their Testarossa from Lamborghini, Porsche, and even the new Acura NSX. Ferrari decided they had to make a final version of the Testarossa to continue to compete with the immediate competitors and the 512M was the solution. It saw improvements in suspension, braking, and a rise in horsepower. Upon completion of production in 1996, there were just 501 examples produced worldwide, with only 75 of them being built for and delivered to the USA.

I like the way they do the vents on the side;

I think these dealers just keep selling cars to each other. It seemed quite a few cars came from Bob Johnson.

Pretty ambitious price, and not that desirable a car to collectors. Buyer's market on this one. Most later (post Fiat) Ferrari prices are declining.

I wonder if these $500,000. cars have two prices like other cars. One when you buy it from a "dealer" and two when you sell it to a "dealer". I imagine they do, which would eliminate me as a speculator. That is also why I am not a gold speculator.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2017

It is speculative, whether "rarity" in this case translates into something than can buck the trend downward. We shall see. Basically this dealer is betting that the 512M has nearly doubled in value since early 2016. Doesn't seem right to me. I would have guessed around $330K on a good day.

pensfan83 · July 2017

@graphicguy my wife makes fun of me because I am fanatical about researching everything I buy, right down to a vacuum cleaner. Admittedly I go overboard at times but with a car, house, boat etc. (not that I have one) I don't think there is such a thing. Starting with my last car I put together an Excel workbook with all relevant financial #'s (residual, money factor, est. doc fee), dealer stock #'s, dealer info, incentives (dealer and customer), etc and have each car listed on a tab. This time I've augmented it with a lease calculator built from information secured from another page at Edmunds. I didn't use TrueCar, Edmunds, or other 3rd parties for either of my last 2 purchases but I am this time. When you used them did you just pull in the data they aggregate to come up with an offer or did you solicit offers through that channel? I ask because it seems like it's hit or miss, appreciate any feedback from you or anyone else.

The dealer I purchased my Audi from was very open to me coming in with binder in hand. They made a strong offer on my trade (coming in about $500 more than I was targeting) and were transparent with the numbers. The first dealer was the complete opposite; funny how some dealers get annoyed when they have a prepared buyer in front of them and others embrace it. If that happens all of the brands I'm looking at have for my upcoming purchase have, at minimum, 3 dealers in the Pittsburgh area and as the saying goes it only takes one to meet your numbers.

That being said I generally keep my price close to the vest until we've exchanged a couple offers because like @stickguy said you never know if their initial or even 2nd offer is lower than your target. I've never had a dealer come in with any offer lower than my target right out of the gate but I have always felt disclosing my price first pretty much says that's what I was targeting. So even if they could or would have gone lower than my target through some simple negotiating, there is now no incentive to do so since they know my bottom line.

driver100 · July 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:
The Testarossa in driver's pic isn't a Testarossa indeed, that's a 512TR. the final run of cars with that body.

Get well soon both firefighter and ab - I hope this isn't a trend of people needing medical help, I want to think I got that out of my system for the foreseeable future.
Right Fintail. Interesting story behind it at the Legendary website:

1995 Ferrarri 512M

LMC is very proud to offer for sale this 1995 Ferrari 512M.

In the mid-90s, Ferrari was seeing major competition to their Testarossa from Lamborghini, Porsche, and even the new Acura NSX. Ferrari decided they had to make a final version of the Testarossa to continue to compete with the immediate competitors and the 512M was the solution. It saw improvements in suspension, braking, and a rise in horsepower. Upon completion of production in 1996, there were just 501 examples produced worldwide, with only 75 of them being built for and delivered to the USA.

I like the way they do the vents on the side;

I think these dealers just keep selling cars to each other. It seemed quite a few cars came from Bob Johnson.

Pretty ambitious price, and not that desirable a car to collectors. Buyer's market on this one. Most later (post Fiat) Ferrari prices are declining.

Possibly a lot of factors have to be considered. It was number 21 of 75 shipped to the US. How many others are still around. Mileage. These guys are pretty successful.

We asked the young kid why some cars don't have a price and they say "Inquire if interested". He gave an example of a 55 Ford Crown Vic....he said it is priced higher than average but it is the best model they have ever seen of that car....they want to explain to people why it has a higher price on it than usual. They must have felt confident about the M512, they posted the price.

driver100 · July 2017

Excellent story JMonroe and I go along with your style. I like to hear what their best offer is before I give them my number....it indicates to me just how honest or dishonest they could be. If they gave me a much higher number they will pay dearly for that. At that point I don't trust them and I am going to lower my goal price even more. Come up with a fair price right off - and you win my trust.

driver100 · July 2017

Pensfan....same. They may want to clear out a car, might need to make a quota, might of got extra factory incentive money from manufacturer that morning........dozen reason they may come in with a price lower than my offer. Why risk it? And, like I say, if they give me a price first that tells me how much I can trust them.

abacomike · July 2017

driver100 said:

The Testarossa in driver's pic isn't a Testarossa indeed, that's a 512TR. the final run of cars with that body. Get well soon both firefighter and ab - I hope this isn't a trend of people needing medical help, I want to think I got that out of my system for the foreseeable future.
Right Fintail. Interesting story behind it at the Legendary website: 1995 Ferrarri 512M LMC is very proud to offer for sale this 1995 Ferrari 512M. In the mid-90s, Ferrari was seeing major competition to their Testarossa from Lamborghini, Porsche, and even the new Acura NSX. Ferrari decided they had to make a final version of the Testarossa to continue to compete with the immediate competitors and the 512M was the solution. It saw improvements in suspension, braking, and a rise in horsepower. Upon completion of production in 1996, there were just 501 examples produced worldwide, with only 75 of them being built for and delivered to the USA. I like the way they do the vents on the side; I think these dealers just keep selling cars to each other. It seemed quite a few cars came from Bob Johnson.
Pretty ambitious price, and not that desirable a car to collectors. Buyer's market on this one. Most later (post Fiat) Ferrari prices are declining.
Possibly a lot of factors have to be considered. It was number 21 of 75 shipped to the US. How many others are still around. Mileage. These guys are pretty successful. We asked the young kid why some cars don't have a price and they say "Inquire if interested". He gave an example of a 55 Ford Crown Vic....he said it is priced higher than average but it is the best model they have ever seen of that car....they want to explain to people why it has a higher price on it than usual. They must have felt confident about the M512, they posted the price.

I truly am convinced that the prices on those Testerosa's (as well as other limited production sports cars) are tied directly to the cost of livne-in maids or housekeepers - if you get my drift! As an example, what would be the replacement cost of a young 25 year old gorgeous "live in" maid or housekeeper? Could be about the same as a Ferrari Testerosa if you factor in the "cost of ownership" of the maid or housekeeper, again if you get my drift. As the replacement cost of Testerosas goes up, do does the replacement cos(s) of live-in "help"! I should be so lucky!!!

explorerx4 · July 2017

Well, I guess I got my Ferrari beat down for the day.

isellhondas · July 2017

AB, you'll do just fine. Just try hard to remain positive. These guys with their modern methods are great!

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

isellhondas said:
AB, you'll do just fine. Just try hard to remain positive. These guys with their modern methods are great!

Hey Craig, how's your new(to you) SUV treating you?

Didn't you have a Reatta and a BMW too? What happened to those?

tbirdmarco · July 2017

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xw3OoOT3m6k

ab348 · July 2017

Finally back home after a long day.

Showed up at the hospital around 8:15, preliminaries for a couple of hours and then waiting around until just after 11AM when they wheeled me into the cardiac cath suite, really an OR. I still don't understand why they don't give you better drugs for this but a shot of Valium and some local freezing was it. They wanted to use the groin again this time for reasons that are unclear but I wasn't going to argue after researching the wrist variation of this which has its own issues. It once again was very uncomfortable and you could feel a lot of what they were doing. After an hour they were done and then I had 4 hours on my back in the room.

A new thing this time was that the doc sutured the femoral artery after he was done to reduce the risk of excess bleeding after. They are still very cautious about that with me but so far, so good. The news wasn't all bad in that they think they can replace the aortic valve via the same route and not need to open me up, and didn't find much change from the last time the arteries were seen via this procedure in 2008. Laying low over the next few days.

stickguy · July 2017

good news AB.

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

Any excuse to goof off. Rest up and get back out to the car lots.

sda · July 2017

AB, glad to learn you are doing ok. Mike, FF, you too.

pensfan83 · July 2017

Glad to hear you had no issues this time.

tjc78 · July 2017

@ab348
Glad things went well.

cdnpinhead · July 2017

Recover quickly!

driver100 · July 2017

Ab - sounds about as good as you could expect.
Did you drive home and are you at home....how did you get there?
R&R and just write lots of posts....see if you can do a longer one than JM.

driver100 · July 2017

houdini1 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:
The Testarossa in driver's pic isn't a Testarossa indeed, that's a 512TR. the final run of cars with that body.

Get well soon both firefighter and ab - I hope this isn't a trend of people needing medical help, I want to think I got that out of my system for the foreseeable future.
Right Fintail. Interesting story behind it at the Legendary website:

1995 Ferrarri 512M

LMC is very proud to offer for sale this 1995 Ferrari 512M.

In the mid-90s, Ferrari was seeing major competition to their Testarossa from Lamborghini, Porsche, and even the new Acura NSX. Ferrari decided they had to make a final version of the Testarossa to continue to compete with the immediate competitors and the 512M was the solution. It saw improvements in suspension, braking, and a rise in horsepower. Upon completion of production in 1996, there were just 501 examples produced worldwide, with only 75 of them being built for and delivered to the USA.

I like the way they do the vents on the side;

I think these dealers just keep selling cars to each other. It seemed quite a few cars came from Bob Johnson.

Pretty ambitious price, and not that desirable a car to collectors. Buyer's market on this one. Most later (post Fiat) Ferrari prices are declining.
I wonder if these $500,000. cars have two prices like other cars. One when you buy it from a "dealer" and two when you sell it to a "dealer". I imagine they do, which would eliminate me as a speculator. That is also why I am not a gold speculator.

I am sure trade in price on those classics is lower than the selling price. The salesman did say they spent more on the 55 Ford than they usually would sell for...but, it was probably the best one around. I am wondering if they do commission deals to. My friend figures they must have over $10 million of inventory there.

1955 Ford Crown Victoria
Beautiful Frame Off Restored California Ford To Highest Level
Loaded With Options
Select Aire - Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Brakes
Power Windows
Power Seats
Very Special First Year Crown Victoria
Multiple Show Winner

jpp75 · July 2017

Good to hear @ab348

stickguy · July 2017

based on watching his show, they do have consignments too. I believe a lot of those classic car retailers work like that.

ab348 · July 2017

driver100 said:
Ab - sounds about as good as you could expect.
Did you drive home and are you at home....how did you get there?
R&R and just write lots of posts....see if you can do a longer one than JM.

Took a cab over, brother picked me up after. He is staying the night as they now insist on someone being with you that first evening, never used to be the case.

jmonroe · July 2017

@ab348

Good to hear that everything went well.

You don't have to try to follow @driver100's challenge. I'll out post you any day

. In fact I have one from just this evening. Just have to gather my thoughts and report about that later.

All you have to do is rest up for now and get back in here ASAP.

jmonroe

imidazol97 · July 2017

ab348 said:
they think they can replace the aortic valve via the same route and not need to open me up, and didn't find much change from the last time the arteries were seen via this procedure in 2008. Laying low over the next few days.

Good to hear from you. And that's absolutely amazing that they can replace a heart valve via the artery. Absolutely amazing.

Good news there's not much change in 9 years since the last inspection.

qbrozen · July 2017

stickguy said:

based on watching his show, they do have consignments too. I believe a lot of those classic car retailers work like that.

Which show is this?

Edit: never mind
http://www.legendarymotorcar.com/lmc-tv/season-1.aspx

stickguy · July 2017

that is the one.

roadburner · July 2017

cdnpinhead said:
Recover quickly!

Agreed!

jmonroe · July 2017

Here is the story I was threatening you guys about. Don't want to disappoint @driver100 just in case he thinks I lost my touch.

About 10 years ago Mrs. j came up with an idea that it would be nice to take one of our grandsons (this was before our granddaughter was born) for a day. Just by themselves without any of the other grandsons. For lack of a better name she called it, The Only Kid's Day. All of the kids like it including our granddaughter. It starts by us picking up the grandchild before dinner then we go out to dinner and they sleep over, get up and it's their choice what they want for breakfast (in or out), then off for what they want to do for the day. Finish the day with dinner and return them to their home in time for bed. I don't know how may times we have done this over the years and they like it so it still continues.

Today it was grandson #2's day. He turned 13 in April.

On the way to dinner he sees a couple cars he liked and pointed them out with a comment. Like, "cool vette", "sharp 70's something Camaro, "that was a nice Red Mustang". Mrs. j just sat there with her head down and shaking it but she didn't say a word.

On the way back from dinner this is repeated a couple more times. He wanted ice cream so we went to the grocery store because he didn't want to go to an ice cream shop. Of course we got more stuff while we were there. As we are leaving the grocery store parking lot he sees a pretty modded up car and says, "what was that"? I didn't know what it was but I think it was another Camaro.

Mrs. j can't take it any longer and says to me, "I should have known he'd pick this up from his father (Son #1)".

Then we had a little conversation:

Me: What's so bad about that.

Mrs. j: Nothing I guess.

Mrs. j (talking to Grandson #2) So you saw a lot of cars that you liked tonight, huh?

Grandson #2: Yes and I really liked that vette. Vettes are probably my favorite.

Mrs. j: You know they are pretty expensive, so if you want one when you are older you better pay attention when you are in school so you can get a good job and be able to buy one.

Grandson #2: I know. I'm doing pretty good so far.

Mrs. j: So what do you think of my car (we are in her Subie).

Grandson #2: Well, it's a nice car but it's pretty much a grocery getter. His car (pointing to me) is pretty nice but I like your car too.

Mrs. j: Is that all you can say about my car.

Grandson #2: Don't you want me to be truthful. It's not like you don't have one really nice car in your family.

We are now home and I push the button to open the garage door as I pull into the driveway. I stop the car and Mrs. j reminds me that we have bags in the trunk. She gets out of the car and hurries into the garage then she closes the garage door. I'm at the trunk with grandson #2 and he says, "hey, she closed the door on us". I said, "maybe she didn't like that you said her car was a grocery getter". He said, "c'mon, I've heard my father say a lot worse things than that about my Mom's van".

So I thought I'd have a little fun with him and I said, "how's your speed around a dining room table". His response was, "HUH" ????

It turns out Mrs. j heard the home phone ringing and as she picked up the phone in the garage, she just hit the garage door button by mistake.

I can't imagine what a whole day will bring tomorrow. I think I should have a little sit-down with that kid before we start out in the morning.

Who knows, in a few years he could be posting in here.

jmonroe

bwia · July 2017

ab348 said:

Ab - sounds about as good as you could expect. Did you drive home and are you at home....how did you get there? R&R and just write lots of posts....see if you can do a longer one than JM.
Took a cab over, brother picked me up after. He is staying the night as they now insist on someone being with you that first evening, never used to be the case.

Ab, glad you're home and the procedure went well albeit with some discomfort. Don't know if they have them in Canada but a home health aid would be nice to have around the house to help with cooking and light house duties.

driver100 · July 2017

JMonroe...........have you considered a new career writing plays? I don't know of anyone else who writes actual dialogue.

That's all we need, more Monroes posting here.........there won't be room for the rest of us!
Maybe we need a new topic....Random Thoughts and Plays by JMonroe.

driver100 · July 2017

bwia said:

ab348 said:

driver100 said:
Ab - sounds about as good as you could expect.
Did you drive home and are you at home....how did you get there?
R&R and just write lots of posts....see if you can do a longer one than JM.
Took a cab over, brother picked me up after. He is staying the night as they now insist on someone being with you that first evening, never used to be the case.

Ab, glad you're home and the procedure went well albeit with some discomfort. Don't know if they have them in Canada but a home health aid would be nice to have around the house to help with cooking and light house duties.

I think almost anything you would have or do in the U.S.would be available in Canada. The only thing much harder to get is a gun, and you aren't allowed to carry one around with you, or have one in your possession.
Home health aid workers are extremely expensive. I think Ab is very fortunate, he has a good brother who will watch him the first night, then he will probably be able to manage after that. If not, then might need a Plan B - like some help.

abacomike · July 2017

@ab348:

Great to hear everything worked out well, ab.

The he last time I had that done, the doc put stitches in my groin, too.

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

Here's a question for you Florida guys. In looking at Florida car listings I see some are listed as 'rebuilt' title. I always assumed that this meant the were wrecked and repaired until I saw one that said it was a rebuilt title because of flood damage.

In Florida do they give flood cars the same rebuilt designation as cars totaled in crashes?

stickguy · July 2017

up here they seem to be called salvage titles. Not sure if they have any sub branding as to why.

driver100 · July 2017

Maybe "rebuilt" sounds better than "salvaged".

inigo1 · July 2017

Good morning, I'm a newbie looking to lease, is there a thread for highest dealer cash and best residual values ?

Or best lease deals for the month?

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

stickguy said:
up here they seem to be called salvage titles. Not sure if they have any sub branding as to why.

Yeah, that's what they call them in NY too. I'm assuming the term rebuilt is a Craigslist term meaning salvage due to damage beyond book value. Just wondering if there's any way to determine if a car was totalled by accident damage or flood.

Probably a lot of flood damage cars down there.

abacomike · July 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

Here's a question for you Florida guys. In looking at Florida car listings I see some are listed as 'rebuilt' title. I always assumed that this meant the were wrecked and repaired until I saw one that said it was a rebuilt title because of flood damage. In Florida do they give flood cars the same rebuilt designation as cars totaled in crashes?

No, they issue "refloat" titles!

ab348 · July 2017

Survived the night no problem. slept well, brother has now left the premises.

Meeting a friend for lunch then immersing myself in British Open coverage.

graphicguy · July 2017

@abacomike....glad to hear the good news. I'm sure you'll be feeling better in no time.

@pensfan83.....my target price is my offer. No surprises in F&I with doc fees, this fee, that fee, dealer add-ons, etc. The offer is the ENTIRE OFFER.....all-in. I know in advance what I'm spending down to the dollar.

I'll use the pricing websites like Edmunds, TrueCar, etc in addition to some personal research about stock levels at the dealerships. I'll look for a week or two online at what the dealerships are reporting as sold and what is aging inventory. Most dealerships show their inventory via their on line WEB pages. I can see which cars pop up and which cars go away. That tells me what their selling and what's languishing.

USAA, AMEX, etc use the TrueCar underpinnings for their own pricing services.

I think it depends on the geographic locale regarding pricing that KBB, Edmunds, TrueCar etc shows. I also think it depends on how many local dealerships participate in these pricing services.

I find TrueCar to be a pretty good tool around here. But, sounds like in other parts of the geography, they may not be as aggressive. I've never used their "coupon" at a dealership, as I think the dealers pay a flat fee for each of those coupons they get which turns into a sale. However, sometimes they miss the mark entirely. On my recent Acura purchase, they were a few hundred under MSRP. I ended up beating that deal by a couple thousand $ and getting over estimates for my Q50 trade (and yes, I shopped it). Edmunds (no offense to our hosts) tends to be a bit inaccurate in their pricing (on the high side).

Going crazy and offering the dealer a money loser for a deal just wastes everyone's time. Dealer won't accept it, and you just get frustrated not knowing the final amount you're going to pay (totally my opinion). I come in with a skinny offer, but what I think is doable. Considering I dismiss all the back end money like doc fees, I feel good about my deals.

That said, I could never make a deal with the local Infiniti dealership because they would never accept a skinny deal less the back end fees. Then, their management changed and they were very accommodating on the Q50 purchase.

Same with Lexus. There are two dealerships around my stomping grounds (one is near kyfdx). Both are owned by the same dealer group. They don't like doing skinny deals, either. As a result, I've tried to buy a Lexus 3-4 times. They let me walk every time I made an offer.

Funny thing, same dealer group owns the Honda store near me. They are really easy for me to make a deal with.

One of the keys, I rarely deal with green peas on the sales side. There is no "if we...will you?" sales....no 4 squares, no "are you going to buy today?" pre-qualification probing. I'm either making one offer for the car, or I'm not making any. Most of the veteran car sales people do not want to waste their time, or mine with all the text book sales banter. If I like the car enough to make an offer, I've done my homework up-front and am ready to rock. Those who haven't done business with me in the past, I explain my "one offer" philosophy and the fact that it's "all-in". Once that's understood, it's easy-peasy at that point.

carnaught · July 2017

roadburner said:

cdnpinhead said:
Recover quickly!
Agreed!

@ab348, very pleased that things are stable and that you're okay.

roadburner · July 2017

graphicguy said:
@abacomike....glad to hear the good news. I'm sure you'll be feeling better in no time.

@pensfan83.....my target price is my offer. No surprises in F&I with doc fees, this fee, that fee, dealer add-ons, etc. The offer is the ENTIRE OFFER.....all-in. I know in advance what I'm spending down to the dollar.

I'll use the pricing websites like Edmunds, TrueCar, etc in addition to some personal research about stock levels at the dealerships. I'll look for a week or two online at what the dealerships are reporting as sold and what is aging inventory. Most dealerships show their inventory via their on line WEB pages. I can see which cars pop up and which cars go away. That tells me what their selling and what's languishing.

USAA, AMEX, etc use the TrueCar underpinnings for their own pricing services.

I think it depends on the geographic locale regarding pricing that KBB, Edmunds, TrueCar etc shows. I also think it depends on how many local dealerships participate in these pricing services.

I find TrueCar to be a pretty good tool around here. But, sounds like in other parts of the geography, they may not be as aggressive. I've never used their "coupon" at a dealership, as I think the dealers pay a flat fee for each of those coupons they get which turns into a sale. However, sometimes they miss the mark entirely. On my recent Acura purchase, they were a few hundred under MSRP. I ended up beating that deal by a couple thousand $ and getting over estimates for my Q50 trade (and yes, I shopped it). Edmunds (no offense to our hosts) tends to be a bit inaccurate in their pricing (on the high side).

Going crazy and offering the dealer a money loser for a deal just wastes everyone's time. Dealer won't accept it, and you just get frustrated not knowing the final amount you're going to pay (totally my opinion). I come in with a skinny offer, but what I think is doable. Considering I dismiss all the back end money like doc fees, I feel good about my deals.

That said, I could never make a deal with the local Infiniti dealership because they would never accept a skinny deal less the back end fees. Then, their management changed and they were very accommodating on the Q50 purchase.

Same with Lexus. There are two dealerships around my stomping grounds (one is near kyfdx). Both are owned by the same dealer group. They don't like doing skinny deals, either. As a result, I've tried to buy a Lexus 3-4 times. They let me walk every time I made an offer.

Funny thing, same dealer group owns the Honda store near me. They are really easy for me to make a deal with.

One of the keys, I rarely deal with green peas on the sales side. There is no "if we...will you?" sales....no 4 squares, no "are you going to buy today?" pre-qualification probing. I'm either making one offer for the car, or I'm not making any. Most of the veteran car sales people do not want to waste their time, or mine with all the text book sales banter. If I like the car enough to make an offer, I've done my homework up-front and am ready to rock. Those who haven't done business with me in the past, I explain my "one offer" philosophy and the fact that it's "all-in". Once that's understood, it's easy-peasy at that point.

I handle things almost exactly the same way. I was on another site where someone said that they went to a dealer who refused to negotiate an OTD price. I told him that at that point I would have walked.

carnaught · July 2017

I agree with the above. I only negotiate for an OTD price. First I get at least a few OTD prices from competing dealers to get the ballpark of where to reach a price I am comfortable with. If they refuse to work with an OTD price or try to add other costs when finalizing in the finance office, the deal is dead, and I walk. This method has served me well.

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