Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,175
    Done and done.

    Big O got me out the door in 45 minutes. The drive home wasn't long enough to form any impressions.

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 43,135
    the Coopers?

    I should get them if for no other reason, that was the name of my late (and still missed) doggie that appears on the green background in all of my posts!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    I love that Cooper puppy, stick!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • tbirdmarcotbirdmarco new yorkMember Posts: 3,838
    @Michaell nice nice glad you found an tire shop chane near bye that has the tires that you want to put on the Faraster! so did you get them instoled today? and nice cante wate to hear all avbout the cars and coffy you all are going to on Saturday!
  • tbirdmarcotbirdmarco new yorkMember Posts: 3,838
    @sandman_6472 glad all was covered under your worintee that ws close! hope you are good for an few years now! and nice lowner car they gave to you!
  • tbirdmarcotbirdmarco new yorkMember Posts: 3,838
    @Michaell saw your posting on the current page sorry about that glad you got the tires instoled!
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,175
    stickguy said:

    the Coopers?

    I should get them if for no other reason, that was the name of my late (and still missed) doggie that appears on the green background in all of my posts!

    Yes, I went with the CS5s.

    Familiarity from one of the two VUEs we had (but, I can't remember which one it was now)

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 43,135
    continue to be impressed by the Elantra. Had to run out to Petsmart last night. Probably about 5 miles, all local roads with various stop signs and stop lights (that I always get caught at). So, normal around town stuff. TC said I got 31 MPG going, and coming home (a slightly different, more open but longer route), 33.4. Considering my one mostly highway (but still 20% local streets) run (coming home from dealer) returned 36+, I think that this might be the Hyundai that is actually underrated for MPG on the window sticker. At least I hope it is!

    going to try and take a little road trip this weekend to finally get it opened and and a few miles on it. Really curious what it will do on a straight highway jaunt.

    2 weeks and almost 100 miles of my own, and still liking it! Really grips well ripping around an off ramp too. Much different than the Sonata which was tuned for comfort.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • capriracercapriracer Somewhere in the USMember Posts: 898
    kyfdx said:

    Don't get too caught up with treadwear ratings. Did you know they aren't comparable across different brands?
    @capriracer explained this at one time.

    No, no, no, no no!!

    I explained that they COULD be compared, but you have to be careful as there is a lot of variability within the system.

    If you want, I'll explain it, but - fair warning - it's a long explanation with lots of boring details.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778

    kyfdx said:

    Don't get too caught up with treadwear ratings. Did you know they aren't comparable across different brands?
    @capriracer explained this at one time.

    No, no, no, no no!!

    I explained that they COULD be compared, but you have to be careful as there is a lot of variability within the system.

    If you want, I'll explain it, but - fair warning - it's a long explanation with lots of boring details.

    Okay...that's why I tagged you, as I'm often wrong.

    I'm pretty sure long explanations with boring details is why we started this discussion. ;)

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  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 8,713
    I’m about to visit Discount Tire myself. When I had the Tahoe’s tires rotated and balanced back in June, they said there was almost no air pressure in the spare tire and aired it up. I checked my tire pressures the other night and found it was the same again. Aired it up, and heard the hissing sound of air coming out of it after I was done. I’m guessing I’m in for a new tire. Thankfully, it’s a full size spare in a size that they appear to stock. 
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,175
    I've just resigned myself to consider myself lucky if I can get 30-40K out of a set of tires.

    @stickguy - glad to hear how much you are liking the Elantra Sport. I've yet to take the Jetta on any sort of a road trip, but I've seen north of 40 MPG on drives into Denver or out to the airport. But, it's all downhill from my house.

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  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,110
    xwesx said:

    Not sure if the newest generation of turbos have this, but there are electric turbos out there now, and they are supposed to eliminate turbo lag because they can spool independently of the exhaust flow. Traditional turbos don't spool up until often after 2,000 rpm, so that power band from idle to >2,000 rpm is without "boost."

    Offerings like "twin turbo" also served to reduce turbo lag by including smaller individual turbos that could spool faster (i.e., require less exhaust pressure), but they still depend on the flow of exhaust gas and, therefore, include some level of lag.

    Electric turbos are used as a booster of sorts, but many modern turbo motors have no appreciable lag as it is. BMW uses one twin scroll turbos on all of their inline motors except for the twin turbo S55 found in the M3 and M4. The V8s and V12 do get two turbos. I don't know about any other manufacturers, but BMW motors make peak torque from approximately 1400-to 5000 rpm.
    My Mazdaspeed 3 did have a bit of lag, but you seldom noticed it on the street. You want to talk turbo lag, my 1985 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe had it in spades; You had to be on the throttle at turn-in if you wanted to start accelerating when you clipped the apex.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778
    Turbo lag= 9-3 Viggen. (Torque steer, too).

    It was a hoot!

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  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    Who's got the best racetrack in America for a guy with a 5-speed 2018 Subaru Impreza 2.0i sedan in Venetian Red Pearl?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAMember Posts: 7,951
    kyfdx said:

    Turbo lag= 9-3 Viggen. (Torque steer, too).

    It was a hoot!

    9-5 Aero, too.
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara 4xE, 2004 BMW 330i ZHP 6MT
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,110

    Who's got the best racetrack in America for a guy with a 5-speed 2018 Subaru Impreza 2.0i sedan in Venetian Red Pearl?

    Don't bother unless you swap it for a WRX STI or a WRX with the Performance Package- brakes have been an issue on even the WRX until recently. In their 2014 Lightning Lap Car and Driver tested a WRX and reported:

    With just over 2500 miles on the odometer, the Subaru consumed the last of its front pads, grinding the backing plates against the discs. The metal-on-metal contact became apparent in the midst of a hot lap as the car careened through Hog Pen. We parted company with the pavement...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 8,713
    Who's got the best racetrack in America for a guy with a 5-speed 2018 Subaru Impreza 2.0i sedan in Venetian Red Pearl?
    Wait, are you reporting a punch here? 
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusMember Posts: 13,085

    xwesx said:

    Not sure if the newest generation of turbos have this, but there are electric turbos out there now, and they are supposed to eliminate turbo lag because they can spool independently of the exhaust flow. Traditional turbos don't spool up until often after 2,000 rpm, so that power band from idle to >2,000 rpm is without "boost."

    Offerings like "twin turbo" also served to reduce turbo lag by including smaller individual turbos that could spool faster (i.e., require less exhaust pressure), but they still depend on the flow of exhaust gas and, therefore, include some level of lag.

    Electric turbos are used as a booster of sorts, but many modern turbo motors have no appreciable lag as it is. BMW uses one twin scroll turbos on all of their inline motors except for the twin turbo S55 found in the M3 and M4. The V8s and V12 do get two turbos. I don't know about any other manufacturers, but BMW motors make peak torque from approximately 1400-to 5000 rpm.
    My Mazdaspeed 3 did have a bit of lag, but you seldom noticed it on the street. You want to talk turbo lag, my 1985 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe had it in spades; You had to be on the throttle at turn-in if you wanted to start accelerating when you clipped the apex.
    BMW’s twin scroll turbos (single turbo) have nearly no turbo lag. The one’s I’ve driven, you have to really concentrate to notice any, and then wonder if it’s your imagination. BMW does a wonderful job.

    My Caddy CTS with the 2.0 had a twin scroll, too. Not as good as BMW’s implementation, but quite good in its own right. Just a little bit of lag, right off the line, but turbo spooled up quickly.

    My Infiniti Q50 had a twin turbo V6. I wouldn’t call it “lag” per se. But, it was a little slow off the line, but things got real fast, real quick when the turbos spooled up (around 2,300 RPM). Where things got hairy, the transmission would go to the highest gear as quickly as possible. While I’m sure that was to keep the MPG reasonable. The downside was when you needed to kick down a gear or two while passing. The turbos would go from loafing to spooled up in the blink of an eye. Even though it was an AWD car, the (already too light) handling would get wooly as the car’s front end seemed to loose composure. And, that’s with the sport setting. That’s why I still think NYC’s Q50 with the 3.7 NA motor, with more linear torque, is the better set up.

    The Caddy’s 2.0 T did the same thing when you kicked it down a couple of gears. The turbo would go from loafing to all spooled up and handling got....well....for lack of a better word, quite interesting.
    2021 Acura TLX A-Spec-Platinum White Pearl
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    edited November 2017
    No, not yet corvette!

    roadburner - just checking ta see if you ate your Wheaties. Check please!

    This racing thing is actually kinda cool, though I'm an absolute newbie to it and a 3,000 lb. Subie sedan with a 2.0L 152-horse 148 ft.lb of torque five speed stick ain't gonna get it on the track.

    What track would you/do you race on?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,175

    No, not yet corvette!

    roadburner - just checking ta see if you ate your Wheaties. Check please!

    This racing thing is actually kinda cool, though I'm an absolute newbie to it and a 3,000 lb. Subie sedan with a 2.0L 152-horse 148 ft.lb of torque five speed stick ain't gonna get it on the track.

    What track would you/do you race on?

    The only track I've ever been on is the "roval" at Pikes Peak International Raceway. Have driven a Ferrari, an Audi R8, and a Lamborghini.

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  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,110

    No, not yet corvette!

    roadburner - just checking ta see if you ate your Wheaties. Check please!

    This racing thing is actually kinda cool, though I'm an absolute newbie to it and a 3,000 lb. Subie sedan with a 2.0L 152-horse 148 ft.lb of torque five speed stick ain't gonna get it on the track.

    What track would you/do you race on?

    It's not racing, just relatively fast lapping. My two nearest tracks are NCM Motorsports Park and Putnam Park Road Course. Pacific Raceways and Ridge Motorsports Park are located in Washington State.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    What is the top speed you've ever recorded, roadburner?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    Michaell - you've fast-lapped, too?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    edited November 2017
    My 2017/18 Subaru Impreza will have that same road-racer look popular these days that my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS had. I don't think I'm over that fateful day in the hot summer sun in late June of 2014 north of El Paso when my Lancer's engine blew up. I'm working on it now.

    I loved that car with an enthusiast's passion, brothers. :'(

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,110

    What is the top speed you've ever recorded, roadburner?

    130-140. I almost never watch the speedometer during a track session.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    edited November 2017
    130-140. I almost never watch the speedometer during a track session.

    I would think that racing a car on a track would be one of the most stressful experiences one could have. Sort of like Steven Seagal grabbbing your neck in a Vulcan grip with that dreadful "I'm going to eliminate you" face.

    I wonder if Steve can really wipe out guys like he does in his movies?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778
    I did 147 mph in a stock car at Kentucky Speedway. B)

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  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAMember Posts: 7,951
    Hearing rumors that the Civic SI is leasing really well right now....do I tempt myself with a test drive?
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara 4xE, 2004 BMW 330i ZHP 6MT
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTMember Posts: 14,936

    Hearing rumors that the Civic SI is leasing really well right now....do I tempt myself with a test drive?

    Rumors are true. $1,700 Lease Cash plus strong RV & cheapo MF make for a strong case. Think about it. Coupe & Sedan sales are on the decline due to SUV popularity & the Civic Si is ONLY available with a 6-Speed Stick which makes it EVEN less desirable than a "normal" Coupe or Sedan to non-enthusiasts.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    kyfdx - that is pretty fast. I'd pass out.

    firefighter28 - how's your new house, man? What neighborhood of Seattle are you guys in?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAMember Posts: 7,951
    @nyccarguy Just ran a sample lease calculation assuming a sale at invoice less the $1700 lease cash and came up with a 0 down (except DMV and first month) 36/12 lease of $257/month including tax. That's a lot of car for the money.

    @iluvmysephia1 We are going to be moving up to Shoreline from Ballard. Closing next week and moving the week after.
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara 4xE, 2004 BMW 330i ZHP 6MT
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,158
    I think my top speed is 125 in a 1992 Toyota Camry. It was a brief thing, done for the wrong reasons. Don't tell my parents. :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 43,135
    At that price, I might have talked myself into one!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,110
    edited November 2017

    kyfdx - that is pretty fast. I'd pass out.

    firefighter28 - how's your new house, man? What neighborhood of Seattle are you guys in?

    The thing is, you get used to the speed so after a while it doesn't seem all that fast. I remember one time going through what I thought was one of the slower parts of the track at Putnam. I looked down and I was doing 80 mph.
    We make a point of warning students to watch their speed leaving the track because they have become accustomed to much higher speeds and will drive accordingly without realizing it.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • tifightertifighter WAMember Posts: 2,902

    @nyccarguy Just ran a sample lease calculation assuming a sale at invoice less the $1700 lease cash and came up with a 0 down (except DMV and first month) 36/12 lease of $257/month including tax. That's a lot of car for the money.

    @iluvmysephia1 We are going to be moving up to Shoreline from Ballard. Closing next week and moving the week after.

    That seems like a pretty strong deal. You'll have to work local Honda dealers to get it I'd guess; they still think it's the 80's around here.

    Separate note - auto show starts today I believe.

    21 Tesla 3 Perf / 21 Tesla Y LR / 11 BMW Z4 6MT

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAMember Posts: 7,951
    tifighter said:

    @nyccarguy Just ran a sample lease calculation assuming a sale at invoice less the $1700 lease cash and came up with a 0 down (except DMV and first month) 36/12 lease of $257/month including tax. That's a lot of car for the money.

    @iluvmysephia1 We are going to be moving up to Shoreline from Ballard. Closing next week and moving the week after.

    That seems like a pretty strong deal. You'll have to work local Honda dealers to get it I'd guess; they still think it's the 80's around here.

    Separate note - auto show starts today I believe.
    Auto show is going to be a no go most likely - the fact it is only one weekend is a huge pain; Sam managed to stay healthy a whole 5 days before picking up his next childcare related bug. On the upside, at least his immune system will be awesome?
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara 4xE, 2004 BMW 330i ZHP 6MT
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    @iluvmysephia1 We are going to be moving up to Shoreline from Ballard. Closing next week and moving the week after.

    Excellent choice! You guys will like Shoreline. It's closer to where I grew up in Edmonds and you should have a lot more elbow room ta build that pool table in. Excellent choice. Aurora Village is the Mall I grew up in, you'll be within 5 miles of it pert-near anywhere in Shoreline.

    Go Seahawk's tonight against Arizona!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    edited November 2017
    The thing is, you get used to the speed so after a while it doesn't seem all that fast. I remember one time going through what I thought was one of the slower parts of the track at Putnam. I looked down and I was doing 80 mph.
    We make a point of warning students to watch their speed leaving the track because they have become accustomed to much higher speeds and will drive accordingly without realizing it.


    I can't forget this video of a guy in Atlanta taking his new Scion iA through a slalom course at a large Atlanta racetrack. I couldn't believe how fast he was taking these swivel-turns around the cones. I can't find the video now but I'm gonna still keep looking for it. He'd a left me in my Scion iA in the dust. If I had a Scion iA.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • tifightertifighter WAMember Posts: 2,902
    edited November 2017



    Auto show is going to be a no go most likely - the fact it is only one weekend is a huge pain; Sam managed to stay healthy a whole 5 days before picking up his next childcare related bug. On the upside, at least his immune system will be awesome?

    Bright side to missing the show? Your immune system will not be under siege after sitting in the Civic SI floor model that everyone has slobbered all over. Go ahead and lick the steering wheel, I dare 'ya...

    21 Tesla 3 Perf / 21 Tesla Y LR / 11 BMW Z4 6MT

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,175
    @iluvmysephia1 - yes, I've fast lapped 3 different times at PPIR.

    Fastest I've gone is just over 100 MPH on the front straight. I took a quick glance at the speedometer.

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  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZMember Posts: 5,141
    edited November 2017
    I'm no track rat, but enjoy driving in out-of-the-way places at high speed. Setting the cruise control at 115 mph and enjoying the ride for over a half hour is something that you have to be in the Rocky Mountain States to enjoy. I am and I have. The Fraser Canyon in B.C. provided me lots of curvy fun in both my MGB and my 240-Z, at speed, not nearly that high, decades ago. My testosterone situation is considerably different these days, but so far my memory is hanging in there.

    Have fun.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 8,713
    Byerly Ford, where I previously took the Mustang for an airbag recall and had a good experience, just called me from a blocked number and left me a generic voicemail explaining they had customers “interested in a vehicle like the one [I] have.” So they just went from being a dealer I liked to being one I feel indifferent about. 
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    So what are we lookin' at for monthlies?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 53,951
    I'll be back in Germany with a car in 5 days, fast driving you say ? We'll see, weather willing. Some of the fun of the Autobahn isn't just the unrestricted sections, but the transitions in and out of said sections, along with dodging people - it requires concentration.

    I won't say how fast I have driven, but I did have the E55 for 7 years. I think it was as fast from 60-120 as from 0-60 B)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    edited November 2017


    If anyone is familiar with slaloming and wants to watch a competitive guy in a 2016 Scion iA slalom, check this out. I just watched it again, and I'm going OK, uh-huh. I can do that.

    Right. I am falling in love with the 2016 Scion iA all over again. You're right, driver100, I best not try and buy anything right now. I'm all over the map. But, in a good Gary Payton smile, you'll notice it's with only a few select favorites. I drove the 335 odd miles from Dodge City, KS, to Denver to buy a black 2016 Scion iA. And they told me someone bought it out from under me 1/2 hour before I got there. What?

    I was all set for them ta say it's at a holding lot of theirs or something. Not that the car sold. So that's loving a car, guys. I'm thinking about it again. B)

    I just thought of another one. I drove with my son in 2010 to Las Vegas to look in to buying a red 2010 Suzuki Kizashi 6-speed. I was ready ta deal and I gave them my best offer. Apparently my offer was $2,000 too low for them. :p Ya know what, though? I would've absolutely loved that car. Suzuki builds a good car, guys.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,697
    What is the top speed you've ever recorded, roadburner?
    130-140. I almost never watch the speedometer during a track session.
    You really can't. I mean, unless maybe if you had HUD. But approaching the end of the main straight,  you have to be laser focused on your brake point. Similar to you, I know I've crossed 130, but can't know by how much. I tried to use Harry's Lap Timer once upon a time, but could never get one full clean lap in due to traffic.

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 55-car history and counting!

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    edited November 2017
    You really can't. I mean, unless maybe if you had HUD. But approaching the end of the main straight, you have to be laser focused on your brake point. Similar to you, I know I've crossed 130, but can't know by how much. I tried to use Harry's Lap Timer once upon a time, but could never get one full clean lap in due to traffic.

    Yeah, I don't know if my 2016 Scion iA buddy from Atlanta looked at any of his guages in his slalom on that video. I don't see how he could have. If I tried ta replicate that run of his above, I'd have to totally concentrate on pedals, modulating the gas and brake pedal (and clutch of course) and the look ahead and the steering wheel. Completely. And I'd either be way up or absolutely shot when done. I don't know - I'd have to try to find out.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • djkhoi888djkhoi888 Member Posts: 54
    is there any general advice that can be given if I want to start owning different cars more often?! I rcently bought a car, and thought the other day maybe I'll get in a new one again in 2 years, then do it again and again....If anyone can direct me to a beginner's forum that would be great!
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,158
    djkhoi888 said:

    is there any general advice that can be given if I want to start owning different cars more often?! I rcently bought a car, and thought the other day maybe I'll get in a new one again in 2 years, then do it again and again....If anyone can direct me to a beginner's forum that would be great!

    CAUTION: KEEP AWAY FROM EDGE - SLIPPERY SLOPES AHEAD!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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