Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

jwm40517 · April 2018

Regarding the Honda van, we have an 09 Oddy that probably works the same. When the third row seat is up you have to release a lever to unlock the latch that holds it to the floor. If something on the floor, like a mat or something prevented a good positive lock the seat would work fine and if someone was sitting on it they would notice it not being locked. However, if you leaned over to reach in the back well, I could see how it would flip.

What seemed odd to me was that he would have to climb over the console and get through the second row to reach the third row. Maybe it is because I am old I would have walked to the rear and opened the rear hatch to retrieve something there in the well behind the third row.

explorerx4 · April 2018

Hey oldfarmer50,
Feeling nostalgic?
https://westernmass.craigslist.org/cto/d/lincoln-mark-viii-lsc/6568364013.html

bwia · April 2018

Here is a rare video of the 1910 Johnson vs Jefferies heavy weight fight of the century. The 45-round fight was held on July 4, in Nevada. Curiously, Johnson appears imposing but he was only 6 ft. tall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnMJL36_oCs

driver100 · April 2018

Thanks for that clip bwia. I am not a boxing fan....don't see the sense in winning by knocking someone out. But, Jeffries the lose according to the announcer, "betrayed his race"........unbelievable.

If anyone deserves a pardon, it should be Johnson.,

ab348 · April 2018

fintail said:
Two potential good pardons (the Libby pardon is also an arguably good one, as he was kind of a fall guy for glorified war criminal Cheney, and convicted on dubious testimony - many people have gone untouched for far worse). Must be to compensate for the pardon given to festering pile of garbage Arpaio.

I guess getting "The Stock Market and Investing" shut down wasn't satisfying enough? :@

fintail · April 2018

Hey, I was being complimentary - 2 out of 3, that's a home run in this new age. But you're right, authoritarians are sensitive snowflakes, I will refrain

ab348 said:

I guess getting "The Stock Market and Investing" shut down wasn't satisfying enough? :@

oldfarmer50 · April 2018

explorerx4 said:
Hey oldfarmer50,
Feeling nostalgic?
https://westernmass.craigslist.org/cto/d/lincoln-mark-viii-lsc/6568364013.html

Sweet, I sold mine with 104k miles. Some guy about a mile from me has one and I see them occasionally in surrounding cities. I'd love to find another one with low mileage.

stickguy · April 2018

interesting experience at the gas station today (a gulf). Sad how much gas prices have been going up (I have not gotten gas in either car in at least 2 wees). But the RDX needed gas soon, so I went to fill up before the wife drove it all week and ran out.

anyway, my usual Gulf had regular for 2.66. But PUG was only 2.73 (of course I went with the good stuff today!). But the real oddity, mid-grade was 2.65. So actually less than RUG, which makes no sense. Not that I was going to complain.

tbirdmarco · April 2018

Very. Sad on that high school Boy did hear on the news

tbirdmarco · April 2018

Enjoyed reading all above everyone open one had a good weekend have a good upcoming week everyone

tbirdmarco · April 2018

Stink guy yes yes places I’ve been going up crazy what can we do

tbirdmarco · April 2018

Lol lol lol

tbirdmarco · April 2018

Stick guy your name has been changed to from this damn voice dictation like many others in here just made me laugh like it always does

driver100 · April 2018

tbirdmarco said:
Stink guy yes yes places I’ve been going up crazy what can we do

Now there is a good name to use.

driver100 · April 2018

NOTE: DISREGARD unless you want to give your philosophical advice, which would be interesting. I think it drained overnight...so when I pressed START for 10 seconds the ACTIVE light went off, and I was able to put it into WASH CYCLE I THINK....testing it out now.

OK....a dishwasher question, need an opinion.
Bosch dishwasher is 8 years old. I think it is broken, the lights are stuck on ACTIVE and HALF WASH. Tried holding all the buttons etc to try and RESET.....it is frozen.
Is it better to call a repairman....is it a case of putting in a new part or panel.
OR
Is it better to bite the bullet, and go out and buy a new one?

I checked and they can last as short as 7 years and as long as 15, with the average being 9 or 10 years.
My thinking is a repair will cost $200 or $300 by the time the guy comes here and figures it out, then something else will break in 2 or 3 years, and I will have to buy another one anyway. It is a gamble either way.

Any thoughts?

pensfan83 · April 2018

I have no idea what a decent dishwasher runs but if the cost of repair figures to be around half the cost of a replacement I would go with new.

driver100 · April 2018

pensfan83 said:
I have no idea what a decent dishwasher runs but if the cost of repair figures to be around half the cost of a replacement I would go with new.

That is a good rule of thumb pensfan. A new dishwasher is about $600. Install and take out old is $225. Half the cost of the dishwasher itself would be $300 which seems like a good general guideline. You could fix the electronics, and then have an arm breakdown or something else.....like an old car, keep getting it fixed and thinking this will be the last time and then it will be fine....but, often, it turns out to be one thing after the other.

ab348 · April 2018

I thought Bosch were supposed to be the M-B of dishwashers? If it is like them, a tech named Klaus or Otto will arrive and say that the factory requires the entire electronics module to be replaced at a cost of $2000, after which the new bits will need to be registered with the DCU (Dishwasher Control Unit) for another $500 before it will function. Such are the risks of owning a German product out of warranty.

I would buy a new Whirlpool, the Chevy of dishwashers.

imidazol97 · April 2018

If it were a Whirlpool and we had the model number, it's likely we could find an applianceblog.com with a thread on this problem. The tech that responds might even link a manual telling how to push certain buttons and run the device through a test cycle after which error codes could be displayed telling what's wrong with the durned thing. All this is true about my Whirlpool washers. I haven't needed it for my dishwasher.

Here's a link to the Bosch topic. You might read through some of the requests and symptoms. Or try a search for your model number and "applianceblog" to see if someone has posted. To post your question, you signup and pay a once only lifetime fee of $5 through paypal.com. Cheap. Only the techs can respond to your posts.

https://www.applianceblog.com/mainforums/forums/53-Bosch

driver100 · April 2018

General Replies:
A Bosch is the MB of dishwashers....when they are working, there is nothing better. They do have a tendency to breakdown more often and more easily....but, like an MB, that is what youo sacrifice to get great engineering.

I did watch some youtubes which had suggestions. Leaving it over night I think allowed it to drain completely and finish the cycle. Also, allowed me to think through what buttons to press to turn off completely, and try to reboot. I will make a note of that applianceblog site....could come in handy one day.

Say what you like about German products vs American made. Most American makes are made offshore. Our Bosch was made in the US. When we bought this dishwasher the salesman showed us the difference....the Bosch and European makes use much more expensive sound deadening materials, and other features which make it better engineered.

Yeh, a Chevy or even better a Corolla will hold up better, but, to get maximum performance and engineering, there is one big disadvantage....more can go wrong.

btw...just did a load and seems to be working again.

stickguy · April 2018

Can always unplug it and let sit a while then plug back in. Might clear the memory?

driver100 · April 2018

Stick...I thought of that but I don't know where the plug is or if you can get at it. So, I did shut it down....but, rebooting is always worth a try. That is how I got the rental Furd Fusion to start again when it sputtered to a stop. I let it roll backwards off the road, shut it down, waited 10 seconds and tried to restart. It got back half of it's power, and kept chugging, so I repeated.....worked like a charm.

Rental company said it was a problem the Fusions had. Great! But yes, best to try off and on again with anything that doesn't work.

pensfan83 · April 2018

If it's on a dedicated circuit you can just flip the switch to cut the power, wait 30-60 seconds, and turn it back on if you needed to reset it.

driver100 · April 2018

Remember....I am the furthest from a DIY person there is. If I do that, the microwave and the stove clocks might go off, and I would have to reset them!

jmonroe · April 2018

driver100 said:
Remember....I am the furthest from a DIY person there is. If I do that, the microwave and the stove clocks might go off, and I would have to reset them!

We know that but @pensfan83 said "dedicated circuit". That being the case only the dishwasher will be turned off when you use your finger to turn the beaker to the off position.

If you can't do that you are in need of more help that any poster buddy in here can provide.

jmonroe

imidazol97 · April 2018

Your dishwasher, microwave, refrigerator, and drove should all be on their individual circuit breakers.

driver100 · April 2018

OK...next time it breaks down I will try to find the "dedicated" circuit breaker.

thebean · April 2018

driver100 said:
General Replies:
A Bosch is the MB of dishwashers....when they are working, there is nothing better. They do have a tendency to breakdown more often and more easily....but, like an MB, that is what youo sacrifice to get great engineering...

...Say what you like about German products vs American made. Most American makes are made offshore...

@driver100, wouldn't you think "great engineering" would prevent a product from breaking down more often and more easily? Sounds to me like unneeded complexity just to add price. Also, Kitchenaid dishwashers (my personal choice) are all made in the US, and I have had great experiences with the two I have owned in the past 30 years. Check out Speec Queen also for robust washers/dryers made in the US with no unneeded complexity.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

@thebean -- you bring up an interesting point that also relates to luxury cars. A car can be beautifully engineered with regards to "function" but not necessarily to longterm reliability. Most people who buy "the best" generally trade out sooner than those looking for extended durability. They buy the features, the prestige, the latest tech, and the most efficient operation.

pensfan83 · April 2018

driver100 said:
OK...next time it breaks down I will try to find the "dedicated" circuit breaker.

On the inside of your electric panel door there should be a label that breaks down the circuits by number and what they control. Circuit #1 controls furnace, #2 A/C, #3 Dryer...and so forth. If you don't see one labeled specifically for the dishwasher then it's likely on a circuit with other appliances and/or outlets.

thebean · April 2018

Great point, @Mr_Shiftright. I think that's why Lexus enjoyed such owner loyalty in the 1990's and 2000's. Luxury with reliability, as well as great dealer experience. You're spot on that people wanting the latest in tech and safety features trade more frequently than folks like me that care about reliability above most else.

jmonroe · April 2018

driver100 said:
OK...next time it breaks down I will try to find the "dedicated" circuit breaker.

Not so fast. You may not have a "dedicated breaker". The only way to confirm that is to flip breakers until you see if the "dishwasher" is the only device on that breaker. HINT: Even if a breaker is marked "dishwasher", until you flip it to confirm that it is truly dedicated, you really don't know.

Not everything in writing is correct. Just look at some of your posts.

jmonroe

dino001 · April 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
@thebean -- you bring up an interesting point that also relates to luxury cars. A car can be beautifully engineered with regards to "function" but not necessarily to longterm reliability. Most people who buy "the best" generally trade out sooner than those looking for extended durability. They buy the features, the prestige, the latest tech, and the most efficient operation.

Engineering is about prioritizing the outcomes. A ho-hum product could also be a result of great engineering if the priorities were low cost, cheap maintenance, high reliability at expense of looks, peak performance, or great number of features. Best example would be Formula 1, or any other racing: engineers will prioritize performance and give enough longevity so it fall apart two laps after the completion of the design race period. Driver's comfort will have very little or even no consideration in the design. Tires would last only hundred miles and be shredded to pieces.

Mercedes-Benz vehicles appear to be engineered with a stated objective to perform certain way, but at expense of maintenance and/or longevity of certain components and owner's cost does not seem to be a large consideration. I'm not saying I agree with that philosophy, but that's what they seem to have decided. So it would be "poor engineering" if those vehicles did not achieve their stated objectives. If the owner's expectations are not met, cause they were different (say the owner expected low maintenance ever-lasting vehicle) that may not be poor engineering, rather poor communication and messaging to the customer regarding the objectives. Still a failure, just different kind.

driver100 · April 2018

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:
OK...next time it breaks down I will try to find the "dedicated" circuit breaker.
Not so fast. You may not have a "dedicated breaker". The only way to confirm that is to flip breakers until you see if the "dishwasher" is the only device on that breaker. HINT: Even if a breaker is marked "dishwasher", until you flip it to confirm that it is truly dedicated, you really don't know.

Not everything in writing is correct. Just look at some of your posts.

jmonroe

I will keep that in mind....believe it or not, I have turned off circuit breakers successfully in the past.....even fuses before that!

driver100 · April 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
@thebean -- you bring up an interesting point that also relates to luxury cars. A car can be beautifully engineered with regards to "function" but not necessarily to longterm reliability. Most people who buy "the best" generally trade out sooner than those looking for extended durability. They buy the features, the prestige, the latest tech, and the most efficient operation

If I chose a car only because I wanted a reliable car, I would buy a Camry or Corolla, they always come first on JD Powers surveys. When you want a better more engaging driving experience, you want a car that is more complicated, and is probably more....hmmmmm, let's say delicate - as opposed to being a tank for example.

The Bosch dishwashers uses principles not being used in a GE, for one thing it heats the water and makes it a steam mist to loosen dirt (maybe others do it now but they did it when we bought this one). This particular model has a very low decibel rating. It may not last as long but it will do a better job of cleaning.........and cornering.

I get that some people think reliability is their #1 priority just as some people buy a Timex because knowing the time is all they care about. If you want other features, you pay for it up front, and because it can break easier unfortunately.

ab348 · April 2018

I don't know if this is the same in the USA but here in Canada dishwashers do not have an electrical plug but instead are hard-wired directly to the circuit. I never understood why.

isellhondas · April 2018

We use an independent appliance guy who is very popular and in high demand. On more than one occasion he has suggested that we replace rather than repair an appliance. He then charges us very little for a service call.

He said to avoid Samsung products. Guess what our son just replaced all of the appliances in his new house with? A lot of shops won't work on Samsungs. Didn't know that. Our five year old Samsung tlelvision has been fine so maybe it's just the kitchen appliances?

pensfan83 · April 2018

When we were shopping for refrigerators we were told the same thing about Samsung, went with an LG instead.

andres3 · April 2018

I'm not so happy with products made in Canada right now; look at this junky Michelin made there

imidazol97 · April 2018

Looks like it's been abused...

andres3 · April 2018

imidazol97 said:
Looks like it's been abused...

Oh, it has an excuse for blowing out, but I'm not convinced that huge sidewall shouldn't have more steel and be more flexible so as to not do that when it hits an asphalt curb at 20 to 25 MPH or so.

nyccarguy · April 2018

@andres3

Glad you weren't hurt. I can't believe it looks like your rim is untouched. Was there any other unseen damage from this incident? Good thing you WERE NOT driving your beloved TTS. You'd be out AT LEAST a more expensive tire and an expensive wheel. Might I also assume you'd have been going much faster in your Audi, so the damage could have been MUCH worse.

jmonroe · April 2018

andres3 said:

imidazol97 said:
Looks like it's been abused...
Oh, it has an excuse for blowing out, but I'm not convinced that huge sidewall shouldn't have more steel and be more flexible so as to not do that when it hits an asphalt curb at 20 to 25 MPH or so.

So, you even drive over the speed limit when you hit curbs. The last time I hit one the car wasn't moving above walking speed.

In any case replacing a tire is a pain and is expensive, especially when you might have to replace the tire on the other side because of tread wear. If that is the case, get your moneys worth and hit a curb going 50 MPH with the other tire. And we want a pic of that too.

jmonroe

ab348 · April 2018

andres3 said:
I'm not so happy with products made in Canada right now; look at this junky Michelin made there

It gave its life to save that of your rim. You should be grateful.

Those are made down the road about 90 minutes from where I am.

abacomike · April 2018

Well, driver, looks like some guy killed 4-7 people and injured dozens in Toronto driving a rented van on the sidewalk. Probably a terrorist, but not sure yet. Sickening - pure and simple.

Then, the shooting of those two police officers while they were eating Chinese food at a restaurant. Then the shootings at the WaffleHouse killing 4-5 people. It’s just not safe anywhere in the free world.

There is absolutely nothing that can be done to stop terrorists, mentally ill people, white supremesists, and others from killing innocent people and children. I seriously worry about the world my grandchildren are inheriting from us. God help us all!

stickguy · April 2018

I just saw about Toronto. we visited last year and really liked it. Did not see exactly where it happened to know if it was an area that we were at.

thebean · April 2018

dino001 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
@thebean -- you bring up an interesting point that also relates to luxury cars. A car can be beautifully engineered with regards to "function" but not necessarily to longterm reliability. Most people who buy "the best" generally trade out sooner than those looking for extended durability. They buy the features, the prestige, the latest tech, and the most efficient operation.
Engineering is about prioritizing the outcomes. A ho-hum product could also be a result of great engineering if the priorities were low cost, cheap maintenance, high reliability at expense of looks, peak performance, or great number of features. Best example would be Formula 1, or any other racing: engineers will prioritize performance and give enough longevity so it fall apart two laps after the completion of the design race period. Driver's comfort will have very little or even no consideration in the design. Tires would last only hundred miles and be shredded to pieces.

Mercedes-Benz vehicles appear to be engineered with a stated objective to perform certain way, but at expense of maintenance and/or longevity of certain components and owner's cost does not seem to be a large consideration. I'm not saying I agree with that philosophy, but that's what they seem to have decided. So it would be "poor engineering" if those vehicles did not achieve their stated objectives. If the owner's expectations are not met, cause they were different (say the owner expected low maintenance ever-lasting vehicle) that may not be poor engineering, rather poor communication and messaging to the customer regarding the objectives. Still a failure, just different kind.

That's some excellent points. When I bought my two MB's in the 90's, I really thought they would be extremely reliable vehicles, and I was disappointed when they were not. No one at the dealership communicated that they were engineered for performance and driving experience. They just said that a Benz would be a great car for us and we would be happy. My fault for not communicating my careabouts to them. When the tires only lasted 20K miles with virtually no spirited driving, they said, "Well, Mercedes' eat tires", like I should have known that. Was much happier with the Lexus they replaced one of them.

Different cars for different wants.

andres3 · April 2018

nyccarguy said:
@andres3

Glad you weren't hurt. I can't believe it looks like your rim is untouched. Was there any other unseen damage from this incident? Good thing you WERE NOT driving your beloved TTS. You'd be out AT LEAST a more expensive tire and an expensive wheel. Might I also assume you'd have been going much faster in your Audi, so the damage could have been MUCH worse.

Yeah, the rim survived and balanced unscathed, maybe a small scuff.

I've thought about the TTS. On one hand, I probably would have been going a bit faster (straight section of rural residential mountain road), but on the other 2 hands, going faster would have put me past their driveway when they stuck their car out

, and the TTS handles better than the Kia so I might have been able to redirect it faster and avoided the curb all together. On the 4th hand, the Audi has wider wheels and tires so maybe I wouldn't have missed the curb. If I had hit the curb on the Audi, likely would have had both wheel and tire damage. That would have been $$$$ instead of $$.

No other damage to the Kia, except Kia of El Cajon did say the alignment quick check revealed it was out of spec again. $250 claim against the Mazda 3 driver ($150 to replace that tire at Discount), but it'll have to be on his honor/Karma. I don't have dash cam footage showing he took my right of way away, and left me with a few feet of asphalt plus curb and dirt.

driver100 · April 2018

abacomike said:
Well, driver, looks like some guy killed 4-7 people and injured dozens in Toronto driving a rented van on the sidewalk. Probably a terrorist, but not sure yet. Sickening - pure and simple.

Then, the shooting of those two police officers while they were eating Chinese food at a restaurant. Then the shootings at the WaffleHouse killing 4-5 people. It’s just not safe anywhere in the free world.

There is absolutely nothing that can be done to stop terrorists, mentally ill people, white supremesists, and others from killing innocent people and children. I seriously worry about the world my grandchildren are inheriting from us. God help us all!

Last I heard, unconfirmed...9 people killed over about a mile and a half of sidewalk. The world is a crazy place. I think there are more troubled people around...makes these things more common. Starting to think people should be given some kind of attitude test if they want to live with normal civilized people - otherwise they get shipped to a remote Island in Hudson's Bay.

driver100 · April 2018

stickguy said:
I just saw about Toronto. we visited last year and really liked it. Did not see exactly where it happened to know if it was an area that we were at.

On the main street...Yonge Street the longest street in the world....but north of downtown near Highway 401, the busiest highway in Canada and the busiest stretch of that highway.

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