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New CR-V, cold weather, runs rich, gas in oil, multiple complaints
silvercliff
Member Posts: 3
Gas is mixing in the oil of our new 2017 Honda CR-V. The 1.5 liter engine does not warm up sufficiently in cold weather, runs rich, and leaves un-combusted gas in the oil. This triggers engine warning lights and requires frequent oil changes. Engine performance and drivability suffer. This problem is also being reported on social media by other Honda CR-V owners who drive in colder climates. We are concerned that it is causing long term damage to the engine of our new vehicle. I caution prospective buyers to postpone the purchase of a 2017 or newer Honda CR-V with the 1.5 liter engine until Honda solves to this problem. The fifth generation CR-V is an excellent car in many respects, but this is a major problem. I cannot recommend the car, particularly to those who drive in colder climates, until a fix is found.
Reuters reported in February that Honda has announced a recall of 350,000 CR-V's in China for what appears to be a similar issue.
We've driven our car for about six months, and it has less than 2,000 miles on it. We typically use the car for short drives within the city. When using the car we would occasionally notice a fuel odor around the exterior of the vehicle and sometimes inside. One day, in November, while driving the car, most of the warning lights on the dashboard lit up. We took the car to the dealer, where it remained for over two weeks as they worked to determine a cause and fix. A field rep from Honda was sent out to the dealer to try to assist. Sensors and fuel injectors were replaced. The oil and filter was changed. At this time our engine had less than 1100 miles on it.
These repairs did not correct the problem. In mid-January the engine warning lights were triggered again. Our dealer noted the smell of gas in our oil and once again changed the oil and filter. We had less than 1500 miles on the car for this service.
I again noticed fuel odors driving the vehicle this week, and plan to take it to the dealer again to see if another oil and filter change is required. We've driven the car about 300 miles since the last oil change.
Honda does not appear to have a solution to this problem. The oil and filter changes are a bandaid, and long term damage may be occurring to our engine. I have contacted Honda customer service to express our concern. They suggested that we continue to monitor their website for future recall or service bulletins. They did not provide us with a case number for our complaint going forward.
Honda may have a major problem on its hands with the 1.5 liter engine. Know this before you buy.
Reuters reported in February that Honda has announced a recall of 350,000 CR-V's in China for what appears to be a similar issue.
We've driven our car for about six months, and it has less than 2,000 miles on it. We typically use the car for short drives within the city. When using the car we would occasionally notice a fuel odor around the exterior of the vehicle and sometimes inside. One day, in November, while driving the car, most of the warning lights on the dashboard lit up. We took the car to the dealer, where it remained for over two weeks as they worked to determine a cause and fix. A field rep from Honda was sent out to the dealer to try to assist. Sensors and fuel injectors were replaced. The oil and filter was changed. At this time our engine had less than 1100 miles on it.
These repairs did not correct the problem. In mid-January the engine warning lights were triggered again. Our dealer noted the smell of gas in our oil and once again changed the oil and filter. We had less than 1500 miles on the car for this service.
I again noticed fuel odors driving the vehicle this week, and plan to take it to the dealer again to see if another oil and filter change is required. We've driven the car about 300 miles since the last oil change.
Honda does not appear to have a solution to this problem. The oil and filter changes are a bandaid, and long term damage may be occurring to our engine. I have contacted Honda customer service to express our concern. They suggested that we continue to monitor their website for future recall or service bulletins. They did not provide us with a case number for our complaint going forward.
Honda may have a major problem on its hands with the 1.5 liter engine. Know this before you buy.
1
Comments
http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/14-problems-issues/170193-potential-major-issue-2017-cr-v-gasoline-gets-into-engine-oil-tank-2.html
Dealer had vehicle a few days. They changed oil and explained the oil/gas mixture in crankcase. They could not duplicate problem. I picked up and drove as normal. Same circumstances late December 2017. This time, in addition to oil change, they changed fuel injectors and an exhaust sensor after having the vehicle 6-7 days.
I thought for sure this was the final fix. Early February I encountered similar smells/problems and called roadside assist for third time because of exhaust error showing up on vehicle dashboard. Dealer kept overnight, this time the dealer GM called me and explained what his tech rep was telling him. He even suggested changing my driving habits to help engine further warm up. This seemed to show they have NO real fix. He even said they might have to buy the vehicle back. Well, here it is March and I'm hearing louder exhaust noises especially backing into my garage? I think it comes and goes with colder weather. Sometimes in MN we get up into the 40's, then return to the teens overnight. I think it's close to failing again. Will I be calling roadside assist again?
I've owned 4 other Honda's so I really like the brand and quality but I'm losing interest and need to move on. Frankly, I hope it fails again so they might buy it back? Thank god it's a lease. Will update soon.
One, obviously, is that the fuel acts as a solvent to wipe the cylinder walls clean of oil.
Two, the remote possibility of the oil pan blowing up.
Excess fuel in a cylinder will usually have a corresponding drivability symptom which I have not seen mentioned in the descriptions. That doesn't rule it out, but it does make it less likely.
One other possible cause that has to be considered is whether or not the engines are being run for a sufficient amount of time to vaporize any fuel condensation that is getting into the oil. Short trips that don't get the oil to full temperature don't allow fuel that does get into the oil to evaporate and be removed by the PCV system. Getting proper PCV flow has been an issue for some manufacturers under specific conditions and that has on occasion allowed for an accumulation of fuel in the oil on some engines.
https://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN1FW124-OCABS
And just the other day at a shop owned by a friend, someone had brought in a CR-V for an oil change and the oil was more like the consistency of coffee and just gushed out. The owner doesn't make anything but short trips and the engine never really gets up to operating temperature very often.
A small amount of fuel dilution, which might not even be detectable on the dip stick, should burn off once you have the vehicle to operating temperature.
But if there's lots of fuel in the crankcase, that engine is going to self-destruct.
forum still trying to do more research...food for thought
At my buddy's shop, they described what they drained as being "like coffee" and said it gushed out like there was 10 quarts. This feels like it's a little beyond a software update.
Have someone connect a scan tool to the PCM and monitor the fuel rail pressure igniton on, engine off. The fuel rail should hold pressure for at least an hour or two. In fact if the engine is hot when they start to watch the pressure it will usually rise. If there is any leak at all with the injectors, the rail pressure will drop rapidly at key off.
One of the other symptoms that I was watching for but was not mentioned would be a misfire when the engine is warm, shut off for just a few minutes and then restarted. A leaking injector would make the cylinder that it is in too rich to fire. But the misfire would only occur until the cylinder cleared itself of excess fuel. The bottom line is if it cannot be proven that the fuel is coming from the injectors, then by default the high pressure pump becomes the most likely suspect.
Since the original post our CR-V has required yet another oil change. By early March fuel and exhaust smells again became more frequent when we drove the car. I took it to our dealer on March 8th. The oil reading was 1 1/2 inches above full, and smelled strongly of fuel. I asked our dealer to document the reading on the service invoice.
We had only put 450 miles on the car since the oil was last changed in mid-January. To summarize, that's three oil and filter changes in less than 2000 miles, along with replaced sensors and fuel injectors.
As I noted in the original post, we typically drive the car for short distances around town. It's been a cold winter in Minnesota, and on some drives the engine temperature never increases above the lowest level.
I called Honda customer service this week to check the status of our original complaint. We had not heard back from them in over a month. I learned that Honda had documented the file incorrectly, and was under the impression that the oil changes were required in the range of 10,000 to 20,000 miles, not the 1,000 to 2,000 miles that we have experienced.
We are very frustrated with the lack of follow up from Honda regarding this problem. This is not acceptable performance from a 7 1/2 month old car. Honda corporate first needs to acknowledge they have a problem, something they have been unwilling to do in my conversations with them. (Our dealer, on the other hand, has been helpful and proactive. I suspect they are as frustrated as we are.)
Carcomplaints.com posted an article this week about numerous complaints related to gas in oil in the CR-V. Here's the link:
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018/honda-cr-v-oil-levels-increasing-unburned-fuel.shtml
This is our fourth Honda. I'm rapidly losing trust in the company.
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Saw this article
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018/honda-cr-v-oil-levels-increasing-unburned-fuel.shtml
Honda CR-V Oil Levels Increasing Due To Unburned Fuel
April 12, 2018 — Reports of Honda CR-V rising oil levels are being monitored by Honda officials in the U.S. after Chinese officials rejected Honda's plans to recall 350,000 CR-Vs and Civics in that country.
So the Chinese recall isn't happening.
Honda told CR-V owners in China that until recall repairs were complete, owners should limit idling periods, use block heaters on the SUVs and drive the vehicles in lower gears at the beginning of trips to warm the engines faster. The automaker said longer trips at higher engine revolutions would help the excess fuel and vapors to properly evaporate.
This sure seems like a real issue to me
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I.E. One or two miles to a destination and then back home? Five miles? Ten?
Is your oil level rising and contaminated with fuel? With a longer trip an internal leak such as the high pressure pump must be considered. Someone with a capable scan tool should be able to monitor the fuel rail and supply side pressure after the car has been driven and the engine shut down. The system should hold pressure for several hours, and in fact increase at first because of engine heat. If you have a leak they will see the pressure drop quickly after the engine has been turned off.
I was told Honda is aware of the issue but does not have a fix at this time. Per dealership, I am the only customer they have with this problem- thus far. If this is going to occur every 2-3 weeks...I will not be a happy camper. It’s already been an incovience twice as I had to miss time at work to go to the dealership.
It is possible to have an injector with a very slight leak. This would show up as dropping fuel rail pressure at shut-down and there would be a specific cylinder misfire right after a hot restart, because that cylinder would be flooded. Since we don't have that description that pretty much rules out an injector. The high pressure fuel pump if it had a slight leak would have the supply side fuel pressure dropping since the exhaust check valve should have the fuel rail sealed.
That's the "Cliff Notes" version. GDI is as different from PFI (port fuel injection), as PFI was from carburetors.
As far as the fuel pressure forcing the injectors open, the fuel pressure actually forces the injectors closed along with the return spring. That's why it takes about 65v to command them to open.