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Comments
I haven't checked out CarBargains yet but it's something I may consider. I did see your rave review. I'm just a little hesitant at dropping $165 on the service if they can't get me at least that much better than what I already have heard.
Tev
All the autos seem to be right around $24k, so you can show yours and Fitzgerald's price quotes and ask anyone to match it.
That can be a pain, but call around and see what you can find. Check the Wasington Post and the Washington Times. The latter has a very good automotive section, and it appears today (Friday).
Good luck. I'm jealous of that awesome roof!
-juice
You're responding quickly; you must be in IT or have a fat pipe to the 'net
..Mike
..Mike
Maybe then I won't only post on weekdays.
Hmm, it's a conspiracy! One of you guys is tired of me ranting! Well, I don't rant, you here, I...
Never mind.
-juice
Can you say telopoly? [telephone monopoly]
Bell Atlantic owns the local loop (a twisted pair of copper wires from the central office to your home/business, the famous "last mile"). Therefore, all DSL providers (Covad, NorthPoint, etc.) rely on BA to make the last connection. The Washington Post had an article about BA's non-performance. On any given day, the "BAh" completes a whopping 20% of Covad's installation work orders. BAh is the BAhttleneck.
Do you want me to tell you how I really feel about Bell Atlantic?
..Mike
..Mike
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you-- have been out of town. Yes, they will take your check. Be SURE to take the ad with you if you plan on buying an ad car. They probably wouldn't come up with one on their own. The ad also will list the stock numbers of the cars. erics6 is right on. If you plan on financing, I believe it's best to be pre-approved before you arrive to buy-- it will save lots of time. Unfortunately, we asked what they might give us on trade for our older Subaru, even though we already had a buyer. Big mistake. That took a lot of extra time. The so-called "sales manager" offered us practically nothing (not unexpected) and followed that up with the statement that they since they weren't making anything on the car, we owed them the trade so they could make something on the deal. Hey, pal I didn't write the ad! So, as erics6 said, don't trade if you can help it, have a check ready (and/or pre-approved financing) and whatever you do, don't add any other options- you won't like the prices they will quote you. Take the car as it is equipped and drive it away. Let us know how it ends up for you. I never could find a better deal, on-line or off.
Steve
My question regards timing. Here in the NE, I'm wondering if now is a wonderful time for price -- i.e., entering summer and people aren't thinking of AWD. Or if I would do better to wait for the '01 to come out and try to pick up a left over then. In which case, when will the '01s hit market?
I didi a search on this so I'm sorry to ask if it's been hashed out -- if so, apologies ... and can you refer me to where I might look for the discussion? Thanks.
Take care.
Joe W.
The information I've gotten indicates the six cylinder '01 Outbacks are due to arrive at dealers around October. Production at the SIA facility in Indiana begins in September. I have no information regarding the current 4 cylinder engine models (Legacy and GT) but think new '01 production will definitely begin with the H6 powered L.L. Bean and VDC models.
As a generality, good deals can be had at introduction time for left overs. Yet, one has to take into account the depreciation of a one year old car versus a "new" car. If you have a good relationship with your local dealer and have the cost data necessary to arrive at a fair deal, you probably should be open with the dealership and let them present ideas and figures to you. I have generally found the savings to be gained by buying a one year old car is minor, unless there are dealer incentives. When the 2001 Forester went on sale, Subaru offered excellent financing and service arrangements. In today's world, many dealers know prospective buyers are well armed with costs and facts before they shop and therefore, it is not unusual to find cooperation and yes, good information!
Hope this bit helps.
Don
Bob
Nashua said they wouldn't come down from 22900.
On Tuesday, 16 May, I emailed Manchester, saying
"Sell me the car I want for 22050, and I'll buy it today",
which wasn't altogether practical, since it was
after 6PM. But I did buy it on Sat, after
getting truly expeditious loan service from DCU
(Digital Fed. Cred. Union).
Pricing: Base invoice 20776
Dest. charge 495
Auto. trans 719
Advertising 200
Gimme some of
the holdback (187)
------
22003
What the hey,
offer them 22050
That "advertising" is probably bogus, but that's
what Intellichoice says. And I ought to have
squeezed the holdback more. As usual, I paid
too much (though the car has keyless entry, which
I think is an extra-cost item).
The car drives nicely, though from a stop, it
tends to lag, then lunge, as if being pulled by
a rubber band -- a bit unsettling for someone
accustomed to the tight response of a Saab.
Is it supposed to do that?
Regards.
i haven't seen it yet, i hope it 'not' that good looking because i'm planning to buy the 2000.
My question is this: Dealer offered me a new 2001 Forester L, manual transmission and luggage cover for 19800. I live in the NYC area. IS this a good price? The vehicle won't be in till mid June. I don't know whether I should go for it or shop around some more. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Once you are armed with the invoice prices, I would go to the Subaru of America Website, http://www.subaru.com/ and perform a dealer search in your area. Email all of the dealers in the area and ask them to respond with their best price on the Forester with the options you want. I did the very same thing and was offered a price of invoice by several dealers up front for a 2001 Forester L. So, I would shoot for invoice on the Forester you want.
Hope this helps.....if you have more specific questions, feel free to ask
Skip
I'm eager to get on with buying a Forester - just waiting for parts to complete a minor repair on the Saab before I trade it off. I hope the Forester is more reliable, or at least parts are more available! No flames from Saab owners, please
Faye
Don't let that one detail deter you from buying the car however; Subarus are excellent vehicles.
Regards,
WDB
Naturally, I'm concerned about the high mileage and wonder if everything's about to fail. I'll go insane if I don't get a car that's trouble free for at least a few years.
I drove a 2000 Legacy yesterday and was very impressed, it's a huge improvement over the 94, but I can't afford it. I've also driven a 97 Legacy but can't compare it to the others from memory.
Any comments on this 94 Legacy L or comparisons with the next model years?
If you really mean that you want NO trouble for "at least a few years," you are asking an awful lot of even a good, reliable car @ 150k. Assuming you drive about 15k/yr, and a "few" years means three, I'd be looking for something between 50 and 75k ... that way, by the time you get to 3 years out (and 100 to 125k miles), you'd know whether to trust the car for more or not based on how it's wearing.
Just an idea. Hope it helps.
Take care.
Joe W>
I hear you just the same, thanks
Mary
As for advertising and processing fees, just compare apples to apples. I'd add it on the the dealer margin, because that's what it is essentially. It seems ludicrous for them to ask you to pay for commercial interruptions, no?
2001 Imprezza buzz:
http://www.egr.unlv.edu/~simon/2.5RS/edit/spy.html
Mark: $19.8 sounds a little high. I'd at least get other quotes.
Mary: the Brighton wagon invoices for 17353, plus 495 freight is still under $18k. That plus there may be a regional $500 incentive, so it's worth a look. Personally, I'd spring for the L at just $700 or so more.
Even if you have to finance it for 5 years, it'll be under a powertrain warranty the entire time (5/60k is longer than Honda, Toyota, Mazda, etc.). Plus, you'll likely get those trouble-free years you long for.
-juice
Here are the things I'd look hard at:
- Number of owners. Fewer=better.
- Service records. An owner who gets the routine services done is the next owner's best friend. My last car had a previous owner who changed the oil twice as often as recommended - what a pal.
- Major drivetrain. Have a knowledgeable individual inspect the engine, front/rear/center diffs, driveshafts, CV joints and trans for signs of impending doom. Keep in mind that finding no signs is not a guarantee. Nevertheless, spending a bit of money here might keep you from spending a whole lot a month from now. Take special note of the CV boots on the front driveshafts; Subies are famous for ripping holes in them which then means a costly replacement job.
On a more meta level you may want to sit down with *all* of your car finances some day. I did this a few years ago and was struck by the fact that the combination of repair costs and lost vehicle time was just about the same as a car payment for a new(er) vehicle would be. The key factor for me was placing a value on reliable, always-available transport vs. begging rides and renting cars when mine was in the shop.
Good luck,
WDB
-juice
Take care.
Joe W.
The asking price of 4900 is well within my budget. I could go higher say up to 10,000 maybe 12,000 for the right car, but with new I'm afraid I'd be in over my head as I'm looking to move, change jobs, etc.
I hope to get out today to drive a 95-99 Legacy. The 00 Legacy that I drove was such an improvement over the 94, I'm wondering if the 95-99 is at least a happy medium improvement or if it's basically the same ride as the 94.
WDB: Thanks so much for the tips on things to look for. Whatever I buy I want to check it out as thoroughly as I possible.
Mary
Good luck on your search. Here are soe things to consider:
Subaru sold a lot of 2 wheel drive Legacys during the mid 90's. They look identical except for the little AWD badge on the back. They had the same engine and are still good cars, but the price should be much lower.
In 99, Subaru offered a 30th Anniversary package that added a lot of value for not alot of cash (alloys, moonroof, height adjustable seat, etc). In 99 the 2.2 litre boxer engine received a 5 HP increase (to 142 HP).
Aside fron these points, the Legacy didn't change musch from 1994 to 1999.
The 2000 Legacy is substantially changed. There is still a strong family resemblence, but the engine is more powerful, the body reinforced, suspension revised, etc. I was so impressed, I sold my 99 Legacy with only 1000 miles, and bought the 2000 model. The only regret I have is that I should have given my wife the 99 and traded in her Dog -I mean Dodge.
-gearhead4
'Ling time lurker, first time poster!'
I've been shopping for months for a replacement for my sturdy but aging '86 Toyota Tercel 4WD wagon. I've been shopping and test driving a lot, including the Audi A4 Avant wagon, the Passat wagon, and the Volvo V40. As a driver I enjoyed the Audi the most, but the Forester is probably going to be my choice because it seems to represent the best value among all these cars. It's not as exciting or as beautifully styled or finished as the Audi. However I feel a lot more confidence in the Subaru's long-term reliabilty and cost of ownership and as you can tell, I tend to keep my cars.
I've been intrigued by the many stories I've seen posted on Edmunds and elsewhere about shopping via the many web-based services. I have priced out the Forester and several other cars, notably the Audi A4 Avant wagon, many times on Carorder and other services, and I have consistently found that I've gotten HIGHER prices from web-based services than I could get from a local dealer.
This is probably at least partially a regional thing. I'm in the Midwest (Chicago) and perhaps these services don't have good dealer connections in this area. In fact Carorder's website now shows me a notice that starting June 1, they will not be doing business in this region for 'a period of time.'
Well, no wonder. Carorder's prices can vary wildly, but I've found them to be high, sometimes amazingly so. For example, I recently priced out a Forester S and the Carorder price had the options at invoice price, but the car itself at MSRP and a whopping $1295 delivery charge! That's right, $800 extra...though their list showed this as being the invoice amount. Carorders' prices get even worse with cars like the Audi and Passat...often ABOVE MSRP. I can negotiate better deals than this even on the Audi!
I've seen here recently that some folks have gotten cars through Carorder at below invoice...are they definitely talking INVOICE and not STICKER?
Greenlight.com at one point seemed to have good prices, however about two months ago their website and their pricing changed dramatically. I have lately gotten lousy prices from them, well above invoice and approaching MSRP. Oddly for a business which claims to be 'changing the way people buy cars, their own invoice includes (sometimes) various tacked-on dealer charges.
Carsdirect.com has a straightforward website, but the best price I've found on a loaded Forester S through them is about $1000 over invoice...about 4.5% markup. On an Audi or VW, makes which have no dealer holdback, maybe that's reasonable. On a Subaru, I don't think so.
I have had even worse luck with: Autobytel (no contact at all from 'exclusive dealer') DigitalCars (wanted me to contact dealer, then they would negotiate for me...sure) and Stoneage.com (passed my info to Carorder...which never contacted me.)
Driveoff.com I like the best of these services, as they quote you a range of prices from specific dealers in your area. (They don't tell you the dealers' names, but their distances from you in miles. With a list of area dealers you can usually tell who is being referred to.) Driveoff's website usually has a pretty complete list of options, and they show you the invoice and MSRP of your package, then what their dealers would sell it for. Their prices for Foresters have been fairly good, down to about $700 over invoice for a 2001 Forester S. I think I'd been getting better prices on 2000s--the 2001s may come down. However, a car with the Premium Package was only available from dealers a few hundred miles from me at $1200+ over invoice.
Now for the good news. Last winter I went into the closest dealer to me, MidCity Subaru in Chicago. I was interested in a used '98 'S' they had. I decided not to buy that car. However the salesman, Skip Bauer, said that that I could order a new 2000 Forester for a price better than any of the net offers. At that point I was still shopping so I didn't buy a car. Last night I was in there again, just because I was passing by and was curious to see an 'S' with premium package. Not only was that slightly-over-invoice price still good for a 2001, but he would even go lower because of it being the last day of the month. And this even included the Forester 'S+' as they're calling the car with the premium package. This is WITHOUT my even having to bargain down.
(Before posting this I called and asked Skip if it would be okay to post his name and this info in a public forum. He said sure but asked me to not tell the exact price he quoted me, as prices vary depending on inventory, etc. So I've respected that. But it was a modest amount over invoice.)
Well, I work freelance and have strict rules about my cash flow...so I didn't buy a car last night. However when I am ready to buy, where do you think I am likely to go?
Best wishes,
Alan
I tried using the spellcheck and it wanted me to correct every proper name including Subaru, so I gave up.
BTW I should probably have mentioned that I have no tie to anything mentioned in my post, even MidCity Subaru. I am not even a satisfied customer (yet).
Alan
Any comments anyone about various model years for the Legacy GT?
Mary
In 95 the Outback came out, but I think the 2.2l was the only engine.
In 96 the 2.5l came out, but it required premium fuel. At least keep this in mind.
The 97s dropped the premium requirement, and could run fine on regular gas.
But the condition and service will matter the most. Happy hunting.
-juice
Actually I HAVE been to Liberty City, as I was working on a movie up in Libertyville this winter.
I liked Elmer 'Fudd' too. He let me take a Forester out for an unaccompanied test drive, even gave me change for the Tollway!
Mid City is only about ten minutes from me, so that combined with my positive impression means I will probably go there when it's time to buy. However Liberty City would be a good second choice. I've also been to Evanston Subaru but wasn't impressed.
Best wishes,
Alan
And does anyone know why prices seem higher in Connecticut?
Mary
It sounds like you have made some good decisions. Allow me to offer a few points.
The Forrester is a fine vehicle ... unless you are intending to transport full size people in the back seat. It was my first choice until I sat in the back seat. Headroom was good, leg room was poor.
I looked at the Legacys. There is the Outback and the Legacy Wagon that share the same body and drivetrain. The Outback has a raised suspension and some trim and option differences, but otherwise is the same vehicle. The Legacys have been redesigned for 2000 and feature a reinforced body structure. I purchased the Legacy.
If you compare the Forrester and Legacy wagon you will find similar pricing. For you, maybe the Forrester is more appealing.
There are several options for Chicago Subaru dealers. I am very satisfied with Gerald Subaru in Naperville. I considered Libertyville Subaru when I saw an ad for a Forrester at invoice. But Naperville is much closer for me, and Jack Zimmerman was careful to make sure I got what I wanted.
Dealers can sell at below invoice. Sometimes there are factory to dealer incentives where the factory gives some money back to the dealer. And there are always "Holdbacks" where the factory gives 2% of the MSRP back to the dealer after the sale. To be fair, you have to allow the dealer to make some money. I consider it fair to pay invoice. If you insist on paying actual dealer cost, the dealer has no reason to work with you.
-Jim Walsh
The big question is -- what kind of price should I expect? The salesman proposed selling it at invoice price (plus taxes & the usual) and that didn't seem a very good price to me. He more or less admitted that to be the case, pointing out that the newer ones on the lot are subject to some kind of Subaru incentive but this slightly older isn't.
Maybe I'm paranoid, but do you think there's any point in having the car's mechanical condition checked elsewhere before I buy?
TIA...
Personally, I think they ought to charge notably less than invoice on a car with 7K on it, but admittedly have never tried bargaining for a demo before.
Thank you all for responding.
Beth
the answer relies on how much of a tolerance
level you have for things that don't go
as you expect.
I had 40 Clicks on my Outback 20 of which I
put on myself before I signed the dotted line.
As long as a manufacture is going to backup
their products, without a penny out of my
pocket, why worry!
How much damage can be done in 30 Clicks is
a wild wild guess! But if you can't live
with it, take proper action.
I agree with nvy. 30 miles could be just one test drive. Perhaps someone was very serious about buying that Forester and then the dealer found they could not sell it because it had been sold. The story about losing the Forester for two weeks is a little wild, but if there was a change in mangement, it's possible.
Any mechanical abuse on the Forester during the "test drive" will be covered under warranty.
My suspicion is that some body damage could have occurred (either during shipment to the dealer, or while in the possession of the dealer). It could take two weeks to repair the body. In my state (Illinois), any party selling a vehicle must indicate if bodywork in excess of $500 (?) was done. I would look for telltale signs ... paint color mismatch, paint overspray on the tires, trim or undercarriage, trim pieces that look as if they have been refitted.
The dealer offering $400 means:
He's really embarrassed about losing your car for two weeks and wants to protect his reputation, or
He knows something he is not telling you and is trying to buy his way out of the problem.
If it were me, I would make a very careful inspection and take a good test drive. If everything seemed in order, I'd accept the $400 and buy the Forester.
If I saw a body panel out of alignment, color mismatch, a smell of fresh paint.. or if there were squeaks or rattles during the test drive, I would order a Forester from a different dealer. There is probably a few of them in Albuquerque.
gearhead4
Knocking off $400 seems to be in good faith, IMHO.
tta3: get the cold weather package. It's a bargain, and you get heated seats plus the rear viscous limited slip differential for side-to-side distribution of power. Plus, I like the word "viscous"
You can get quotes for extended warranties on-line, though I think they aren't necessary. Check it out:
http://www.edmunds.com/partners/1source/index.html
Mary: isn't everything in CT expensive? Gas, shopping, taxes, you name it. I guess in colder climates demand for Subarus are higher.
Lambchops: it's hard to say without knowing the condition of your trade-in. Sounds like you're happy with the deal and were treated with respect, and that's what counts.
DaveMcl: 7,000 miles is no longer a demo, that's just plain a used car. I believe the limit is 5k miles, but it may vary by state. Forget invoice, they should take a loss and sell it way below cost. I'd subtract the holdback and another 10% or so since it is USED.
Better yet, just buy new. That incentive he hinted at is a $500 regional dealer incentive, so a new one could be cheaper!
-juice
thanks
mary ann
Like you say, maybe because everything is more.
Mary
Passat Pro: V6 is quick, roomy, 10 year powertrain warranty, 4Motion now availalbe on high end versions.
Passat Con: requires expensive premium fuel with either engine, only 2 years basic warranty, unproven long term reliability, costs more.
Legacy Pro: AWD traction standard, upscale interior, versatile, roomy, class leading safety scores, good torque, and proven long-term reliability.
Legacy Con: a bit heavy, not as quick, must wait for H6 engine.
Of note is that the Passat does offer AWD now, they call it 4Motion. It's offered on their higher-end V6 models only, for about $29-32k or so.
Meanwhile, the Outback will offer a 6 cylinder this fall (too late for you, I realize), and it should fall in the same price range.
As for safety, both score well. You get softer deploying 2nd gen air bags in the Legacy, with side bags on some models. ABS is standard on all but the Brighton, and AWD is standard period. The safety cage held up extremely well in IIHS offset tests, part of why it's a bit heavier than most competitors. Finally, the seat belts are height adjustable and have both pre-tensioners and force-limiters.
Traction control on the VW is still front wheel drive. So at best you still only get traction to the two front tires. Probably adequate to get around, but no comparison to the versatility AWD offers, especially in models with the rear limited slip differential (Outback w/cold package, Outback Limited, GT, GT Limited). VW realizes this, and now offers 4Motion.
Given your price range, I'd drive a well equipped GT Limited and an Outback Limited and compare them to the Passats you drove. Your profile says under $25 grand, which is impossible with the Passat 4Motion, easy with GT Limited, and just barely possible with the Outback Limited.
Happy shopping.
-juice
This non-folding-seat issue doesn't bother seem to most Legacy/Impreza sedan owners at all, but thought it'd be worth mentioning since you're coming from a Ford Ranger and might miss the lack of hauling space. Obviously not an issue at all with the Outback/Subaru wagons if you're considering one of those rather than a sedan.
btw i'm not a gearhead but 44 and female and just like to drive sticks!
mary ann