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Subaru Crew - Dealers & Pricing
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Comments
The VR6 engine is torquey, but it's a FWD car, so you're gonna have torque steer no matter how you look at it. It's also an open differential, so traction is only OK, and the GTIs are notoriously undersuspended.
It's faster, no question, though fuel economy isn't a strength. VW seats are nice, and the interior is upscale. Price can be high, so consider the 1.8T model too.
I'd say the opposite about current Imprezas. Their strength lies in neutral handling, grip, and well balanced suspension. The chassis is clearly built to handle more power, and handle as much as 320hp in other markets.
The 2.5l engine is certainly adequate, but the traction AWD offers actually hurts acceleration launches because it doesn't allow much wheelspin.
Nothing the turbo won't address, though. That should come in around mid 20's, close to the GTI VR6. Get in line, though, they're going to sell out in a week.
-juice
But I'm sure that I'll be happy with it.
Mary
I'm sure it'll work out fine.
-juice
Thanks again, Theresa
Mary Ann
Sounds like you and I met the same dealer! Like hubby says, there are more dealers out there. I'll post how the "online purchase" goes.
Luck,
Theresa
Try to take a price quote that you can use as leverage. Better yet, just go with the buying service.
-juice
I am rather curious as to how important price is to most of the members here. I realize that everyone is always looking for the best deal possible, but I had an interesting experience as of late.
I had been working with a young lady on a new Forester L model (at the time we had 14 in stock.) We have a very strict policy about keeping customers happy, and trying in every possible way to earn their business. This young lady and I had a wonderful chat about the cars, I showed her my own 2.5 RS and we talked a bit about it. I firmly believe that Subaru is one of the best cars built on the road today, (since I have owned 6 of them I guess I should huh? ) I told her all about the company, their vehicles, my dealership, and my own experiences with Subies.
We talked for quite a bit after we had negotiated price, and she left with the promise of returning the next day to pick up the car. (I had told her that I would price her the vehicle at $225 over invoice, which she seemed very happy with.)
The next morning, I pulled the car into our cleanup shop and had a complete new car detail done, wax job and all. By the end of the day she had not showed up so I called her to see if she was OK.
Two days later she came pulling into our dealership in a new 01 Forester L. The car was dirty, and she looked very upset. When she came in I talked with her for a few minutes and found out that she had driven over an hour away the next day to another Subaru dealership. They sold her the car at $200 over invoice (yes they beat me by $25.) She signed a buyers order/agreement to purchase. They left her waiting in the showroom for 2 hours before anyone said anything else to her, took her into a room with the finance manager who then told her the bottom line numbers. When the numbers came out to be $274 more than the numbers I had given her she protested but the manager told her that was because of the $398 dealer doc fee that she had signed agreeing to pay. She went ahead and completed all her paperwork, the finance manager then handed her the tag, books, and extra keys and told her to have a good day.
She did not get the car cleaned up, had to put on her own tag, and had no-one explain any of the books or warranty to her. When she came in to talk with me about the deal she told me that she regretted even stepping into that dealership, let alone not buying from my store.
Since this ordeal, the young lady has sent 3 referrals to me instead of the dealership that she purchased from, leading me to believe that she was telling me the truth. However, this was the second time that a situation similar to this has happened to me and I am very curious as to how much of a discount do most people think is worth getting treated poorly? Also, I had read a review of the automobile dealership industry by its customers (courtesy of JD Power), and it showed that in all things considered when purchasing a new vehicle, that price was #3 on the most important list. I have been in the business for quite a few years now, and have noticed as of late, an alarming trend towards people choosing to do business with places that do not treat them fairly, simply for a few dollars more of a discount.
My apologies for the length of this post, and my thanks for any insight into the subject.
Sidenote: At the time of writing this, my customer satisfaction scores are far above the average for my region, should I focus more on simply getting the deal than concentrating on keeping customers happy?
I'm on my third Subaru and my wife also drives one ('97 Impreza). I trade with a dealership about 45 minutes away, passing up the local one (5 minutes from home) and another one about 30 minutes away. The reasons are simple: my wife and I are treated with respect and courtesy. This goes from management, sales and to service. The dealership (Libertyville Subaru in Libertyville, IL) sells about 40 units monthly in addition to five other makes. They truly know Subaru, like the car, and take care to make sure customers know they are important!
I have been discussing purchase of a 2001 H6 and have been assured of a FAIR price, one that allows me to smile and the dealership to show a profit. I know I can do several hundred better at one or two of the other dealerships (11 located in the greater Chicagoland area) but I value honesty, trust and personal attention above price.
I have been in sales all my life and know there are always people who will sell you out for a nickel. So be it. When you are FAIR, you'll earn the confidence of customers and the referrals will more than compensate for the few deals you loose. I have referred five additional Subaru purchases to Liberty Subaru, have never accepted any compensation (other than the free wash they offer to all customers) and believe I have friends who will be there when my wife or I truly need them!
Hope this long discourse is helpful and responsive!
Don
I am recent member of the Subaru family, and coincidentally, my purchase was at Libertyville Subaru. I walked out of there after my first visit with a written, fair offer. They did not pressure me into BUYING then, nor did they disparage competing cars or dealers.
I'm sure they knew that I could have EASILY walked in to another dealer and used the quote as leverage to save a hundred or more dollars, but I didn't. Had I done so, I believe that would have been as "low" as all of those stereotypical (but real) dealers who screw their customers with every trick in the book.
Perhaps as a backlash to the dodgy dealers of old, some buyers nowadays treat it as a battle, determined to give the dealer the smallest profit possible. The woman who bought her Forester elsewhere was playing that game.
I bought the car from them. They didn't try to sell me anything add-on crap, it didn't even come up. They gave me a good price, and I gave them a decent profit. Maybe I was lucky to work with such a dealer, but I hope not. I hope we're moving to a time where informed consumers and dealers can take car buying off of the list of things people fear most - I think it comes in just after "speaking in public" but before "dying!"
- Martin
After reading all your excellent contributions for weeks and test driving a 2000 Outback (and a couple of competing cars), I am ready to ask for prices. Unfortunately, there is virtually no info to be found on buying experiences in Texas. The Outback is just not as popular as, say, a Ford 150, probably because a gun-rack is not a standard feature in the Subarus .
I live in Dallas where we have five dealers in the Metroplex. Are there any rebates at the moment, what is the advertisement fee (if any), anything special about sales tax, how much above/below invoice, etc. ? Since this will be my first new car buy, I'd appreciate all help I can get to avoid any traps.
Thanks very much in advance. Mischa
I bought from Farrish Subaru in Fairfax, VA, and the sales experience was a nightmare. The model I wanted was hard to find (5 speed Forester early on), and the price was significantly lower at the time, so I bought it there anyway. I just had to take a shower when I got home, you know?
However, since then, the supply has improved and I've sent references to a different dealer, which happens to be a no-haggle dealer with emphasis on service. My cousin bought her '99 Outback there, and my dad is buying his 2000 Outback Limited there next month. Guess who referred them both?
So Farrish lost 2 easy sales. At least, actually.
Not surprisingly, I've also peeled off the Farrish sticker from the back of my Forester.
-juice
PS Nice handle, and any i-Clubber is welcome here, particularly if they autoX
mary ann
Perhaps our new dealer friend knows where the regional incentive applies?
-juice
Paying a few dollars more to a dealer with whom you have a rapport and one whom you feel will properly prepare your vehicle and will assist you when and if problems occur is cheap insurance!
Good luck in your search.
Don
btw don, i did a search on your name on the net for a phone number, tried calling it and got no answer. if it's not you ok. i just wanted to get some advice before i went that far north of chicago.
thanks for all the advice guys ..it really does help.
mary ann
Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate your commentary. I would be happy to call Liberty for you if you think it worth your while. I can also suggest you might want to place a call to Elmer Hansen, Subaru Product Manager at Liberty.
As you know, I have great respect for the dealership. I'm willing to try to help both of you!
If you want me to call you, e-mail me at <<A HREF="http://yellowbikedon@compuserve.com">yellowbikedon@compuserve.com>.
Best regards,
Don
Actually, I'm willing (and expecting) to pay a premium for service. I've done that with the last five cars I've bought, all from a dealer I've learned to believe will be fair, helpful, and very much service-oriented, even to giving me consideration after a car is out of warranty. I appreciate that. So, when I shop, it's typical that I'll price a car with them, telling them that I plan to shop afterward. They explain that I may find other dealers willing to undercut their price, etc. But they give me their best shot. Then I waste an afternoon (no more, too much to do) and go to the "price leaders" in the area where they'll do better, sometimes quite a bit better. I've paid up to $1,250 as a premium to do business with the dealer (when I needed the car) and, another time, when the spread was even more extreme, I went back and told them I couldn't afford to deal with the difference and they should call me if circumstances changed and they could help me out. In about six weeks they called and we closed a satisfactory deal.
They are a small dealer, but they keep their six salespersons busy, have a good stock, and their service bays have cars lined up waiting.
What I get: no hassle; excellent mechanical service; free loaner; prompt attention (everyone does, btw); aggressive advocacy with the manufacturer on warranty service.
Otoh, if their attitude changes, so will my choice of dealer. If I couldn't get the service as an "option," I would surely shop price as aggressively as time would allow.
The Subaru dealers in my area have, at best, weak reputations. I like the car a lot and would have bought one by now if the dealerships would dump the games.
Hope this answers your question.
Take care.
Joe W.
I hate to hear whining from salespeople who lose a sale, but I think you have an appropriate attitude.
Your potential buyer who brusheed you off for $25 apparently learned her lesson.
But price is important. I think every buyer must visit more than one dealer just to determine what the true market value is. Can you imagine someone paying full sticker of $22,000 for a Dodge Caravan when the invoice is $18000 and the factory is offering an additional $1500 (dealer profits over $5000)? If that person did a little shopping around, they could save a minimum of $4000!
Yes, I know, the dealer still has to pay the light bill, salesman's commision and deserves some return on investment, but consumers have bills, too.
Consider my last visit to a local Honda dealer. I had 3 requirements:
1. test drive an Accord (done, it passed the test)
2. appraise my trade-in (appraised for $1800 less than what the Subaru dealer down the street offered)
3. determine selling price (I based my figures on several sources including an add placed for a similar car at this dealership)
The salesman wouldn't allow me to test drive the car by myself. He then held me hostage for 3 hours while he appraised my trade-in and did who knows what else. After giving me his offer which was $2800 more than what I expected, he invited me to talk to the sales manager. The sales manager gave me some cock and bull story about how he had only 4 Accords with a 5 speed trans, so he didn't want to discount them, but he wasn't going to order more because nobody wanted them!!!
I purchased the Subaru and have not regretted it.
I might have visited another Subaru dealer, but if I did, he would need to beat the first dealer offer by $200. I figure my time is worth that much at least.
gearhead
That Honda dealer did you a favor
-juice
1. Does anybody can recommend good dealership in SW Connecticut?
2. Does it make sense to wait until next month? May be we'll get any discount or special rates financing due to end of the model year? Or I can make better deal at June 30.
3. How popular(easy to find) is Titanium Pearl color?
4. Is it possible to rent Subie somewhere to test in for longer time? Where?
5. Would Passat Wagon be better?
The V6 Passat is less reliable than the Soob, and the V6/4Motion is priced closer to the upcoming LL Bean and VDC Outbacks ($28-30k). It's nice, but the GT can be had for much less green.
-juice
Actually, I thought about 1.8T Passat, which will be close in price and available with leather.
FWD will have a bit of torque steer, and won't handle as confidently. I spent the last 2 days driving my wife's 626 (V6, 5 speed), and found that though it is a bit quicker in a straight line, it understeered persistently and generally did not give me the confidence to drive it at the limit. So, surprisingly, my Forester is a whole lot more fun.
In my book, at least, a true sports sedan simply cannot have FWD. RWD ok, AWD even better. Consider a lightly equipped BMW 323i, an A4 Quattro, or a Passat 4Motion, plus the Soob. If you drive like I do you'll be glad you did.
Just my 2 cents'.
-juice
Your buyer made the basic mistake of not comparing apples to apples when she forgot to include the doc prep fee so she got what she deserved.
I recently bought a new Subaru and was fortunate enough to find a local dealership, which not only offered the best price (with no haggling) but also made the whole purchase process a first class experience.
However, I'm somewhat of a penny-pincher so my price break would have been if another dealer could have offered to sell for 200-300 less. Even then I'd give the first dealership a chance to match it or at least come close. After all, when a salesperson spends a significant amount of time to earn both your trust and business, he/she deserves the sale.
Frank P.
He also suggested that 90 days was about how long it would take if I ordered a car. That sounds long to me (especially given the old postings I've read on the Edmunds site).
However, I have a couple of other questions now, and maybe more later. Forgive my ignorance, but this is my first new car buy.
What does "port installed" mean. I thought the Outbacks are being assembled (built ?) in Indiana. Where is a port between Indiana and Texas (where I live).
Also, one of the dealers said a trailer hitch added on later would require 1.5 hours of labor. Aren't the holes pre-drilled on the Outbacks ? Is there anywhere an official list of the labor that's required to install particular accessories ?
Thanks in advance,
Mischa
..Mike
..Mike
See, I told you I was cheap. But that lady who bought from another dealership just to try and save $25 takes the cake in my book.
Frank P.
-mike
PS: always order from the factory whatever you intend on getting from the dealer later on.
Mischa - port installed means the accessories and options are not put on at the factory. It's no big deal, they're still covered by warranty, and the invoice price includes the installation, so like paisan said, it can be cheaper than paying the dealer to install it.
If you can wait about a week, I've already ordered the trailer hitch for my Forester, and can share my experience. I'm also getting the bike rack for the hitch. If you know me by now, you'll also know that I will take pictures, share instructions on a web site, and hints too.
I'm not sure, but I believe you basically bolt it on, though some areas may be hard to get to, and I may have to jack it up.
Yes, I'm anxious to get it, and excited about it, so trust that I'll share the whole experience with the Crew.
-juice
Don
mary ann
Take care.
Joe W.
The wintergreen color was only available on the std OB, not the Ltd, much the same way that the black color is not available on the std OB and only the Ltd OB.
Stephen
Thank you for the kind words. I know you'll be happy with the Outback and the Liberty Subaru people!
Enjoy!
Don
I have Forester'00 and I am very happy with it for almost 9 month now (except mpg I get). I am going to go on vacation soon and before I go I'm planning to add couple of things to my car. I need your advice. Did any of you install CD player on your Forester? Which CD player would you recommend? I'm not looking for very expensive one. How hard is it to install it?
And does anybody know anything about tinting? What to look for when you get one and how much is reasonable to pay?
Juice, I wanted to thank you for advice- I've bought Samsonite Roof Rack you've recommended on your website.
Thanks for your help.
But, having said all that, if I felt that one dealership was just outright treating me poorly while another was giving off substantially better vibes (and those were my only two realistic choices), the peace of mind from working with the better dealership could be well worth a $200 differential to me.
I just came across this on the SOA website. 2001
model pricing is out. The LL Bean edition is
about $30K and the VDC is $32K:
http://www.subaru.com/news/press_releases/pr_00/06_29_00_pricing.html
1) What is the MSRP & Invoice price for a rear spoiler on an OB? I haven't been able to find it on Edmunds, Consumer Digest, or any other similar publications website or hardcopy magazines?
2) Is the spoiler a "port installed" item, or can it be installed by the individual dealers?
3) Has anyone with a 2K OB AUTO trans. had a problem with bumping the gearshift from Drive to Neut. or 3rd gear?? When I test drove the car recently, (this will be my 1st automatic ever), I found that I could bump the shifter out of gear w/o pushing the break pedal. I like the gated gearshift, but would feel more comfortable with some type of locking mechanism (a top button perhaps?) to keep this from occurring.
4) For those of you who have a 2K OB Auto in hilly/mountainous areas (I live on the coast in NE Florida), just how much "umph" does the Auto H4 have with a full load (3-4 persons w/baggage), going uphill from either a slow speed or dead stop? Although I don't have hilly terrain where I live (which makes it tough gauge uphill "umph"), I do intend to make periodic visits to my relatives' cabin in the NC mountains and don't want to end up with a vehicle that's going to wheeze its way up the hill when loaded with wife, kid & luggage.
5) Do any of you know (Patti maybe?) when the cutoff date will be for special ordering a 2K OB? (In case I can't find one that I want). Also, how long it's been taking to get one once it's ordered?
Thanks again guys (& gals) for all of your help. I'll post more questions as I think of them.
Steve
Let us Soobie Crew know what you decide....keep us updated. We love to live vicarioulsy through new owners...:-)
Good Luck,
Stephen
Stephen
I'm in the market for a '00 Outback Wagon. Looking for an honest, no-nonsense salesperson and good service department.
Thanks in advance for your help.
I purchased a 2001 Forester from Conley Subaru in Decatur last month and heartily recommend them for the following reasons:
a. They offered an extremely reasonable up front price ($300 over invoice and they showed me their invoice).
b. I was able to test drive several vehicles sans sales person!
c. There was never any pressure to buy.
d. Completing the purchase documents took only a few minutes and no one tried to sell me unwanted insurance, extended warranty, etc.
e. Upon purchase, they introduced me to their Subaru certified master mechanic. I was also given his business card and told to feel free and call him anytime I had a mechanical question.
f. Car was detailed nicely and topped off with gas prior to delivery.
Bottom line: The entire purchase experience was by far the best I've ever had (9th new car).
Frank P.
OK, Westchester County of NYC will be OK too.
I was about to buy a Legacy GT Wagon (had my deposit money in hand) and went to test drive it. I loaded 5 200lbs guys into the car... Needless to say, it couldn't get out of it's own way. I can only imagine if I added camping gear and a 2000lbs. trailer...
I had to opt for an Isuzu Trooper for $27500 (LS model) which was about $3500 more than the GT Wagon, but gave me a ton more power and towing, and room, but poorer gas milage, and handling...
-mike
Are you saying that it is worth driving an overpriced, gas guzzling, poor-handling vehicle with a much-higher-than-average propensity for roll-overs during the 95% of the time that you are not hauling a trailer, gear and friends, just so you can have more power the 5% of the time that you are? Wouldn't it make more sense to have the GT for that 95% of the time even if it is a dog with a full capacity load?