Subaru Crew - General Maintenance & Repair

nvy · May 2000

I don't often respond to these kinds of
questions and I'm sure more qualified posters
could help you.

But, I also had a check engine light issue
w/ my 2000 OB @ about 8700k or so.
Well that a long story, but as long as your
car is under warranty and you have done all
you can with the gas cap suggestion, a service
check is in order.

It could be any number of things. Let the tech's
take a reading for the code ref. the ECU is
sending out.

Just a suggestion.

royallen · May 2000

Though my Haynes manual says that disconnecting power to the computer will clear a code in a few seconds, I found it does not work on my '95 Outback. I disconnected the knock sensor, got a check engine light when I started it. It drove fine. Then I disconnected the battery for 15 minutes - still had a light, disconnected the battery all night - still had a light. My mechanic checked it and cleared the knock sensor malfunction code. Apparently Subaru put a long lasting power backup in the computer.

royallen · May 2000

The knock sensor was reconnected after the test drive

torek · May 2000

Here's the deal ...

Every modern car (at least any gasoline engine one) sold in the USA (and probably Canada, and it leaks to foreign markets because of the size of the US market, but I am getting ahead of myself) has what is called the OBD-II engine computer codes. OBD-II is actually a government mandated standard, and it is considered part of the emissions control system. (OBD, by the way, stands for On Board Diagnostics, and II is just the roman numeral two.)

Of course, the emissions control system has lots of sensors and parts that try to make sure that the engine runs "efficiently", i.e., burns all the gasoline and puts out just plain CO2 + H2O, none of the nasty acid-rain components (sulfur and nitrogen oxides), no ozone, no smog components (unburnt hydrocarbons), etc. To do its job, all those sensors have to be working properly. The gas cap is also part of the emissions control system, because if the gas cap is loose or missing, gasoline can evaporate right from the tank, putting lots of completely unburnt hydrocarbons in the air.

Now, when you take your car in for a smog check, it might need to be inspected by a poor minimum-wage slob who once had 30 minutes of instruction to use some government-mandated bit of emissions-testing equipment, and that is about it. So, in order to get their money's worth from this guy, the government folks figured: why not have each car diagnose itself? They can tell the guy: "You must look at the check engine light. If it is on, the car fails." Then they just have to make sure that the light catches most emissions problems.

To catch such problems, the light will come on if a sensor glitches. It will then stay on unless and until it is (a) reset by someone using appropriate equipment, or (b) the glitch goes away and stays away through some minimum number of self-test cycles.

The exact details of the self-tests that have to pass to clear any current "check" condition are either some big secret, or just not well known. Or at least, I have not found a list of them anywhere. They appear to include some minimum number of cold starts, warm starts, travel at low speeds, travel at high speeds, etc. For all I know you have to turn the radio off and on too. :-) Seriously, though, if all is well -- such as, if the gas cap was loose and is now tight -- there is some set of conditions after which OBD-II will have passed its required `all is well' tests and the light will go out again.

UNFORTUNATELY, given the one `something is wrong' light, everyone also uses it for more serious problems than `some sensor glitched for a moment' or `your gas cap is loose'. So the Right Thing To Do, when you have a check engine light, is to hook it up to a Check Engine Light Reader and find out why the light is on. The `reason' is a code indicating some part(s) giving back `funny readings', i.e., the engine computer's equivalent of `there's a funny noise coming from over there, kind of a squeeka-squeeka-clicka, when it's supposed to be a clicka-squeeka-plink!' Once you have read out the `reason', you can reset it, and see if the problem is still there, and you can decide how serious it is and how soon you want to take care of it.

You can find a list of OBD-II codes here. There are some portable readers you can buy for home use, although they are all kind of expensive, or you can just take it in to a shop that has the right kind of reader. Although OBD-II is `standard', the connectors are not, so you have to get one works with you particular car.

Chris

ateixeira · May 2000

Wow, such thorough answers. Way to go, guys!

-juice

buchignani · May 2000

I *really* like having a company show manual around for my vehicles, and have just ordered a 2001 Forester. I hear that the cost of show manuals secured through a retail Subaru parts counter is astronomical (although I haven't personally checked).

Any ideas about a less expensive source?

Norman

ateixeira · May 2000

It's actually 7 volumes, kind of a pain.

Hopefully Chilton's makes one. Try a Track Auto or Pep Boys near you.

I haven't needed one yet because nothing seems to break on these cars. Sorry to disappoint you!

-juice

hciaffa · May 2000

My dealer wanted close to $570.00 for a complete set so I tried this Subaru dealer in Washington state at www.subaru-parts.com and the price was about $260.00 for the complete 6 volume set. They have pretty reasonable prices and I've bought other things as well. Right now there are no sets for the Forester by Chiltons, Haynes or Helms. Their not to interested in putting them out cause Subarus aren't big sellers, this is right from a Haynes rep. Its the same when you try to get sport Accessories for the Forester can't find anything but for the honda CRV everbody carries something.

ateixeira · May 2000

Hugo: accessories are finally coming around, though, mostly due to interest in the Impreza 2.5RS with the same engine (hence only minor changes for Forester and Legacy mods).

Check out the Sube-Directory (get it?) for suppliers:

http://home.earthlink.net/~gndiamant/subaru.htm

and join us in the Mods topic for more details.

-juice

mccrair · May 2000

After finding out here about the difficulties 'reseting' the ECU, I brought my 2K Outback into the dealer to ger checked out. It turns out that the Oxygen Sensor needs to be replaced, so 'reseting' the ECU wouldn't have done me any good anyway.

Thanks to everyone here for their sound advice. I wonder how many people have had the same issue with their oxygen sensor? I don't mind, since they fixed it for free, but it did cost me some time and inconvenience....

miksmi · May 2000

Mike, thanks for giving us an update. I've read of others that have had the O2 sensor replaced but I don't recall if it was on MY00 or earlier.

Thanks again for your post, Mike. Your info may very well help a fellow comrade.

..Mike (Smith)

amishra · May 2000

My check engine light came on (2000 OB), and they initially diagonsed it as a failed oxy sensor -- however it turned out they had to replace the ECU completely.

As a fyi, just about 2 weeks ago, the fuel injector on cylinder 1 also failed (leaving me stranded in the middle of nowhere).

There's another reader on these boards who has had the same problems as me - but I'm making a hypothesis, that these problems plague a good percentage of the '00 model year Outbacks, and that other people will continue to see them, unless Subaru starts ironing out the bugs.

-- ash

sonnyb7799 · May 2000

Trying to get a torque wrench, just want to know what is the right amount of torque pressure on the wheel bolts for 2000 Legacy GT? Thanks.

dji · May 2000

Hi,
I'm planning to buy a '97 Legacy L wagon
that still has almost 2 years or 22k miles
left on Subaru's 5year/60k mile powertrain
warranty. Theoretically. Can someone tell
me whether Subaru will honor the warranty
despite the fact that I'm not the original
owner? This will be a critical factor for
me in buying the car, and your quick response
is much appreciated! -- Dave

2ndwnd · May 2000

>>...what is the right amount of torque pressure on the wheel bolts for 2000 Legacy GT? <<

A little tighter than snug.

Dave

francophile · May 2000

I never heard of that one. Head gasket failures generally cause coolant to get in the oil - causing whitish bubbles on the dipstick, or oil into the coolant - causing dark blobs to appear in the oil. The most common head gasket failure is a leak between a cooling system passage and a combustion chamber. Evidence of this is "white smoke" in the exhaust; also, combustion gases get into the cooling system - causing excessive pressure in the system, which leads to leaks, and lots of coolant overflowing the catch tank, and lots and LOTS of bubbles in the catch tank. But not a smell of raw gas; the combustion pressure enters the cooling system after the fuel/air mixture has ignited.

Subarus in particular used to be famous for a little trick where the head gasket would fail allowing coolant into the combustion chamber. When the car was running the coolant would be seen as steam or "white smoke" in the exhaust. The funny thing would be when the car was not running; coolant would fill one of the combustion chambers, and when the hapless owner tried to start the car it would not even turn over. Water will not compress like air! We used to get the strangest diagnoses on those - everything from "battery too weak" to "starter motor failure" to "bent crankshaft". Then we'd pop a sparkplug out and the coolant would tinkle out onto the ground. Ah-ha.

The only thing I can think of is what I'm going to categorize as a WAG (wild-a$$ed guess). If your car is turbocharged it might be possible that somewhere along the induction path there is a leak into the cooling system, and the pressure of the turbo is enough to force some of the unburned air/fuel mixture into the cooling system.

Ask the mechanic who discovered it, and make damned sure it's a reputable place. And let us know what it turned out to be!

Good luck,
WDB

miksmi · May 2000

Wow WDB, great ideas! Not my car or problem, but I learned a lot! Thanks for an informative post.

..Mike

texsubaru · May 2000

The manufacturer should honor their own warranty, regardless of ownership. And, if the past owner bought Subaru's extended warranty that's still in effect, they can transfer that to you (but there's something like a $35 transfer fee that you have to pay).

subee1 · May 2000

I own a 98 Outback Legacy with 19,000 miles and have just recently been experiencing problems. My Subaru has problems shifting from first into second gear, the engine revs loud and sticks in 1st until it jolts into 2nd. I am having trouble with the repair shop because this is very sporadic. Any ideas?

2ndwnd · May 2000

I had to bring my 00 Legacy back in to the shop for the loose driver side door panel problem I had a few weeks back. It started happening again, and now it won't stay put for more than a couple of door closes. The Sube Mechs said that the panel is warped. This on a car less than three months out of the assembly plant. Attention quality control! Anyway, they are willing to replace it, but can't until the district manager can take a look at it and sign off on it. He only shows up every couple of weeks, so in the meantime I get to drive around with a bum door :^#(

Dave

calen1 · May 2000

Thank you WDB. Your answer was extremely informative. I called several subaru repair shops and most had never heard of the problem either.

My last call was to the dealership where the work was done and spoke with a different service advisor. He had more time today to explain what the problem MIGHT be and talked with me about whether or not to worry too much about it.

calen

I got the feeling that it is something I don't really have to worry about but I should certainly keep an eye on the coolant level. I also checked the overflow tank for bubbles while the car was running and thankfully there were no bubbles.

Thanks again for your help!

torek · May 2000

If you can find nothing else wrong, maybe it is soemthing someone did to you as a prank. (I would say "or by accident" but it is a bit hard to see how to accidentally pump a bit of fuel into the cooling system. :-) )

Chris

hciaffa · May 2000

If you think that there is gasoline in your antifreeze and really wish to find out. I would have the system drained and flushed and refilled. Try to think of how this may have happened. Did you have the car serviced other that a Subaru dealer. Its possible that some one may have topped off the overflow bottle with fluid that was contaminated. By draining and flushing you'll be able to tell if the smell comes back that something is wrong. Since you have talked to your dealer about this have him do the draining this way he can log it on your service record and if it does happen again any engine repair can be covered if its under warranty.

ateixeira · May 2000

I was thinking along the same lines. Perhaps someone used an old gas tank (not quite empty!) to mix half coolant and half water, since the original container is 100% coolant.

Sonny: I'd check in three places: the driver's side door jamb, the label under the hood, and in the owner's manual. Those specs are bound to be in one of those three places. You usually see tire pressures and spark plug gaps in those places too.

Subee1: try visiting a dealer and drive a similar model. Does the engine revving sound similar? Soobs have a characteristic boxer sound to them, very different than other cars.

Also, is the tranny an automatic? If so, I'd have the dealer check it out. Leave it overnight if you have to, since perhaps the problem only pops up when the car is cold.

-juice

locke2c · May 2000

o2 sensor-
Only the 2000 models have had problems. Bad batch.

lug nut torque-
aluminum wheels means 65-80 ft-lb. I'd set 70 personally, and recheck in a week.

warranties-
fully transferable.

-Colin

2ndwnd · May 2000

I got a message from the Dealer the next day telling me my door panel was on order, the district manager apparently took their word that it was bad :^)

Dave

luck11 · May 2000

The other day, I began noticing that when I start my 00 OB after an overnight sit, it sounds like the fan, although I'm not absolutely sure its the fan, turns on every 10 seconds, and stays on for about 3-4 seconds. I will pop the hood tomorrow morning to determine if its actually the fan. I didn't notice it after driving a while. My A/C is not on when this happens. Also noticed it was a little sluggish off the line yesterday morning...a very slight 1 or 2 second hesitation before it began to accelerate normally.

I never noticed this "fan" thing before...is this normal? Any ideas? Appreciate any advice.

luck11 · May 2000

Just found out from my dealer that the rear seat dome lights for Canada were not certified by the Canadian Safety Association, and therefore, will not be available in Canada. Not sure why, but will attempt to find out.

miche4 · May 2000

Not sure to post here or general but quick question. I just bought a 01 For S and wanted to know if purchasing the extended warranty (I didn't from the dealer) is a good thing or not. I have never done it in the past but I have never spent this much money on a vehicle before. Any ideas?

miksmi · May 2000

Michelle, I'd skip the maintenance agreements, they're not worth it; try the April issue of Consumer Reports for more detail. These agreements have been discussed here before but it's hard to find the relevant posts. What I do is: Open each Subaru Crew topic, select "see all responses" (just below the topic description, near the top of the page), then search with my browser (Ctrl in Internet Explorer or Netscape). For your case I'd search for "maintenance", "agree", "extend", or "warranty", without the quotes. Painful but it works. Edmund's search function only searches through topic names and therefore is not of much use.

..Mike

georgede · May 2000

I just purchased a 2000 OBS with auto transmission. I have noticed some hesitation when
the engine is cold going around a corner. The car
only has 300 miles so far, so I'm still checking
if its only when the engine is cold or all the time. Should I take it back to the dealer?, or
is this normal on the 2.2 auto?

stewardrobbins · May 2000

The tape/cladding on my 97 Outback has several holes in it. Has anyone repaired or removed this cladding? If so, could you share the details?

jres · May 2000

All right, I know I saw postings somewhere in town hall about ordering service manuals for 2000 legacy's if I remember right Juice sugested going through QSubaru but I'll be darned if I can put the right keywords in the search function to get me back to the proper posts.
What I am interested in is, The titles of the manuals and the prices QSubaru charges.

Thanks,

John

diangelo · May 2000

Purchased a "00" Legacy L Wagon in 12/99 had the interior tailgate panel coming loose after one month of ownership.Took car back to dealer who tried to repair two two times. On the third repair I demanded that the part be replaced as it breaking apart from repeated openings and closings of the tailgate. At my request, it was replaced with another panel from another L Wagon in the dealer's inventory as I felt I should not wait for the part to be ordered an return for a fourth visit.Car has no other repairs since,Great Car!!

ateixeira · May 2000

John: there are several, actually. 6, I think. Kind of a pain. You can e-mail QSubaru@aol.com for a price quote.

-juice

2ndwnd · June 2000

>>Purchased a "00" Legacy L Wagon in 12/99 had the
interior tailgate panel coming loose after one
month of ownership.<<

Hmmm. They need to take a close look at the interior panel supplier. The only thing that's gone wrong with my 00 Legacy L Wagon is the drivers door interior panel was warped and wouldn't stay secured! Just had the new one installed today. And likewise, other than that, it's been great.

Dave

ateixeira · June 2000

Sounds like teething problems. First year model...

Hopefully they'll collect the feedback and do some extra QC before delivery.

-juice

mcj13 · June 2000

I just read the past posts and I'm wondering how the court case turned out and if Subaru ever replaced or fixed the problems with your forester.

Anyone know, did the thread move somewhere else?

Mary

ateixeira · June 2000

Haven't heard from them and I follow almost all Subaru topics.

My advice is to do a thorough pre-delivery inspection. Test drive the exact car you will buy. Inspect the interior for tight fit and finish, try all doors and latches, check the paint for orange peel finish, and drive it in varying conditions to check the accelerator's response, the braking, and the handling.

-juice

mccrair · June 2000

Hey Crew,

I own a 2000 Outback Ltd, which I love.

One of the weird things that I've noticed with this car is a loud occasional whistling noise coming from the driver side window. This isn't the infamous 'mirror noise' tossed around a while back. This noise only happens when there is a gust of wind across the car that causes a large pressure difference between the inside and the outside of the car. The pressure difference appears to make the driver side window 'lift' away from the door causing a short blast of noise. It only happens to the driver side door, and only when the wind is very strong. I noticed it on a long drive through the country side in windy weather. It has never happened in the city.

Any ideas what's up? Does anybody else get this? It's not super annoying, because it only happens rarely, but it would be -very- tough to reproduce for the dealer to fix.

Mike

lambchops · June 2000

We are about to become the owners of a new 2000 outback and want to know if the extended warranty they are trying to sell us is worthwhile or just a scam for more money. Also, does anyone know if there are any current rebates on the OB right now??? Thanks

locke2c · June 2000

re#196,

I'm not sure that I understood your description completely, but I have heard increased wind noise in my Impreza during really severe wind-- good old 60-80 MPH stuff here in Kansas.

In my case it's just the top of the window being unable to seal against extreme conditions.

-Colin

mccrair · June 2000

Colin,

Yeah, that's what I mean. It's not a continuous whistling, but a short burst of noise/air, and it does seem to come out of the top of the window. It makes sense that this is the result of frameless windows. But why does it happen only on the driver's side window, not the passenger side or on the two rear windows?

Mike

mcj13 · June 2000

Many of the Brighton wagons don't have a tachometer. Can this be added on for a reasonable cost?

Why would someone want a tailpipe extender--is it just flash or does it serve a purpose?

Mary

mcj13 · June 2000

My posts always seem to be under the wrong topic, I'm still pretty green, Mary

locke2c · June 2000

I'm not sure, Mike. Inspect the weatherstripping. On my impreza, it's quite pliable and you can move it around a bit. Maybe it's out of position.

Besides replacing it, I'm reaching.

-Colin

cjudy · June 2000

I was wondering if anyone here could give us advise, reviews, comments and or recommendations for a qualified Chicago area Subaru service/dealer center. Our present Subaru dealer seems to be falling short of "good" service.

Some examples, last month they overfilled the oil.( Up above the upper twisted part on the dip stick!)
I think this is unexcusable. I also, have problems with my radiator cooling fans cycling on and off at start up. On two service visits, they've been unable to duplicate the symptom, therefore believe it's OK. There's more, but basically they don't listen and tend to our needs.

Curious, I asked the service manager if he or any of the mechanics drive Subaru cars. None of them do. I really don't expect any mechanic to have the Subaru driving knowledge we have unless they are in one everyday. Not that they aren't good mechanics and attentive to Subaru knowledge. Yet, I think a mechanic driving a Subaru would know all the little quirks, squeaks and detailed problems we so patiently seek to solve with our new Subarus.

We've invested a good portion of our income in our new OB. I would hope that the dealer service center at least invest the same and greater into the education and training of their service mechanics and related personnel.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

CJ

torek · June 2000

... so much as "if they can't make the problem occur, they can't tell if they've fixed it anyway". On the other hand, the overfilled oil is an obvious problem and is easy for them to diagnose (and correct).

I live in the SF Bay Area and have had a good experience with Diablo Auto in Walnut Creek, but have been doing most of my own maintenance. I brought mine in only to check out a "check engine" light glitch that was perhaps (guessing here) merely due to strong wind combined with high speed highway travel in the Arizona desert. (Code #P0107, "intake manifold air flow sensor low", light went away before I could get the car in, no apparent fault in the air intake or sensors.)

Chris

lemonowner3 · June 2000

Hello , I am sorry for not keeping all of you updated on my lemon case. I have gone to trial, and have found the experience very interesting. First of all I have won the case and the good news is I will be getting a new 2001 Forester any day now. I have learned through this experience that my dealer was always on my side and thought that I should have a replacement vehicle. It seems that the Reps from SOA are the ones that insisted that this case go to trial and unfortunately for them they lost! I guess they just like to get out of the office! My case was won on the grounds that the hesitation problem was unsafe. It really is when the car almost stalls in the middle of the road while pulling out into traffic. Also the panel that represented the state that I live in drove the car and reported that they did in fact hear the wind noise in the rear hatch along with the creaking and rattling. Needless to say, the day before the trial I was at the dealer to get the famous service bulletin on hesitation. The service manager sat in the office with me for two hours and was trying to get SOA to settle this on the phone. That whole experience renewed my faith in the dealership. They are treating me so well, I should have my new subie in a few days and I will then let all of you know what my old VIN# is. I would take Juices advice and check any new vehicle out as he suggests. I will do this to the new one. Also, by this time next week I should be a Happy Subie owner. I hope that I don't get another hesitation problem vehicle. If you research this problem you will find it is widespread with subies. I wish I knew how to start a nationwide recall, It should be done. I know I am taking a chance by getting a replacement vehicle, but I really do love this car. If I have the same problem, I know how to handle it now, thanks to the information I have received on this site. Thank you all, for the useful information. Sorry again for writing so much, and I hope that I have helped you Mary.
Exlemonowner
Karen

nvy · June 2000

Thanks for the follow-up post.

I'm sure all the club members will find
this information useful.

At 9k on my Outback, I experienced a
problem with my ECU which caused me some
difficulty. I too thought the SoA was the
party dragging their feet.

I've now have 14k,and its still like new.
without even a hint of a problem.

I too think Juice gives some good advice on
these boards. I've been able to put to
use some of his pointers.

Let us know when you get your new Subie. K.

later

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