By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
http://www.thecarplace.com/forester.htm
Even in that Edmunds review, it was the fastest, most fuel efficient, best handling and best braking model. It only scored poorly off-road, and subjectively because it's not a truck.
DUH! That's the POINT, it handles like the sports wagon that it is. And that's a BAD thing?
Despite their bias, it took 3rd overall in a large group, and 2nd among editors' choices. And remember, this was about it's worst review.
Most reviews were very good. It remains Consumer Reports best ever rated small SUV. The overall score was their 3rd best score handed out EVER, in ANY category.
It won a Car & Driver comparo, and years later was still being called their "staff favorite". Forester also got AAA's award two year in a row, and several other kudos.
Few have looked at the new 2001 model, because not enough changed. But Motorweek did and gave it a raving review.
xse: We've been on several trips to NYC/Conneticut, and it's proven to be a great hauler of people and cargo. The back seat is snug, but your feet fit nicely under the front seats, it's relatively quiet, and there is a lot of cargo room with the seats in place (plus the roof rack is sturdy). Check out this load of baggage.
-juice
armrest extension: I like it. Get it if you're tall, try it first.
wood trim: it's not real wood, though I can't tell. Gimme carbon-fiber instead, it's more my style.
cargo net: a grocery-store must. Love mine.
premium sound: considering I have to listen to Elmo tapes, the base system is almost too good!
hitch: love it. Put it on myself, though it takes some elbow grease. Very sturdy, I was impressed. Go for it.
air filter: I have asthma, so maybe this should be my next accessory!
cargo cover: nice to hide stuff if you're shopping, also keeps stuff in the shade, and helps your A/C work better since the passenger area is smaller.
floor mats: they're standard and free of charge. Thanks, Subaru.
leather: only if it's heated. Wife has non-heated leather and it cold in winter, warm in summer. I'll take cloth.
diffy protector: also put this on myself. VERY sturdy, I was impressed. Protects what appears to be vulnerable on the rear underside. Get it if you ever off road or have a gravel driveway.
It may be hard to find one with exactly what you want, so get the closest match, and then order whatever is missing from Darlene.
-juice
Interesting, considering that the Legacy scored #1 in the JD Power Initial Satisfaction survey.
Out of curiosity, were you in the greater London area?
-mike
Back home in Australia, Subarus are just plain everywhere but they are still seen as different.
Cheers
Graham
As for the Firestone tires on the OB's, I looked at an Explorer in our employee lot today. Those tires are not the same as the OB's. Tread looks different, sidewall seems taller. OB's tires seem more sport-like in shape and appearance. Explorer's tires look, well, like truck tires.
I've been riding on ours at about 32psi (dealer had them at 38!). I'll probably bring 'em down to 30 for a bit as Firestone sorts things out.
-subearu
Are you sure your dealer did not mean "port-installed" option when he said that he can order leather even if it's not an option?
Anyhow, I figured out I'd be just fine with fabric upholstery... also $895 less.
-mike
Most of the Australian population live close to the sea, primarily down the East Coast between the Great Dividing Range and the Pacific. Here, in Melbourne, the desert seems a long way away but the closest, the Little Desert is only about two hundred miles west. Closer to here is the country I really love; Gippsland, stretching East from Melbourne and filled with mountain ranges to about 5000 feet covered in snow at this time of year and very wet for most of it. The roads here are twisty, steep, muddy and immensely good fun in a Subaru. frequently the road formation is just bulldozed into the surface soil with no rock fill. Getting through rain forest tracks like this is interesting. I've had to dig the caked mud from the wheel arches of "full on" 4WDs in the past when we've gone too far into the bush. It's definitely the sort of place to find Foresters.
I mentioned snow capped mountains in the last paragraph and that partly explains the popularity of Subarus here. Perversely for such a dry continent, we have fabulous skiing relatively close to our cities. Okay, it's not Whistler but can you think of many cities bar Melbourne where you can surf, dive, ski (water or snow) and have fabulous food all within an hour or two? Subaru has sponsored Australian Ski Federation teams for many years and it seems that every second car you see on the ski-fields is a Subaru. With rare exceptions you don't need chains if you drive a Subaru so there is a big incentive for the frequent skier to own one. Looking at my office car park, I can see the ski-nuts without effort.
Guttermouth mentioned the Great Ocean Road which runs along the South coast to the West of Melbourne. This is one of the world's great roads. If you've ever driven Highway 1 from Los Angeles to Monterey, you will have something of the right feel but our Great Ocean Road clings to shorter, steeper cliffs with much tighter turns. It was carved out by depression era work gangs to open up settlements previously served by sea and feeder tracks coming down through the mountains of the Otway Ranges. My dad, a surveyor, did further work in the late 30's taking the road West though thick forest West of Appolo Bay to the shipwreck coats where rugged sandstone formations have been chewed from a savage coast on which dozens of ships have met their end. Again, the area is very wet and like Gippsland and the Californian hills, is prime bushfire country. When it dries out through drought, the thick layer of leaf and bark liter below the trees makes it burn like a furnace. The Great Ocean Road is tight, with hundreds of twisting curves and yellow dotted lines on the road marking where the road is imminently likely to slip into the sea. It's one of those roads which calls out for a close ratio gear box and phenomenal torque for accelerating between sharp brake applications at each turn. I can understand why WRX drivers love it. I used to have a Golf GTi in England and it would have been equally well suited for this fabulous road. At the Eastern end is Bell's Beach, one of the world's best surf beaches so one of the real road hazards is surfers who always seem to drive panel vans or ancient VW Campers.
One of the real hazards here is however the fact that the Police also know the benefits of Subarus, using WRX's for fast pursuits and Foresters (the turbo version) for country work. Apparently they are more desirable than anything else, as soon as rain starts to trickle down. Can't imagine why!
Why don't more of you come out here and check out our wonderful country? Just remember though; Melbourne is the only city in the world where you can get four seasons in a day. The old joke says you go out in the morning wearing a swimsuit and overcoat, carrying snowshoes and an umbrella. I love it!
Cheers
Graham
-mike
Frank P.
Those are truck tires - the Outback has a passenger car tires with the name in common. The Outbacks are even H rated, since they can take more heat than SUV tires. I doubt they're affected, but to be safe check the pressures and keep them below 33psi for now.
You can get factory leather on any Forester except the Premium package ones.
Good idea, Frank. The Outback would be fun in (what else?) an Outback.
I've been water skiing and surfing (summer), snow skiing (winter), and moutain biking (also seasonal), but never in the same month, much less a weekend!
Did you get the air filtration system? It would seem like a good idea in those dusty conditions. You must change air filters often, too.
-juice
now and then we get one of those posts that's
just Great.
Thanks graham for taking the time to share that
with us.
Beth
-Bryan
P.S. I have Firestone wilderness tires on my '96 Tahoe, so if you don't hear from me again, the tread fell off on the interstate!
a. sucks gas (V-6)
b. Isn't significantly faster due to added weight (again V-6...4 cyl is POS)
c. Doesn't offer Man Trans with V-6 option
d. Lacks AWD
Last but not least....it's still a FORD!!!
-Frank P.
A few things you can try: bug & tar remover, though it looks like that may not be enough to clean a really big job.
Plain old gasoline may work to loosen the tar, though it'll get messy. You may be better off removing the wheel, and rolling it in a container partially filled with a petroluem-based cleaner or gas.
Bryan: the Forester would run circles around an Escape at the track. The Escape's 4WD is part-time only, since there is no center differential, and though it looks like an SUV, it's still a unibody without a low range. I've owned two Fords and you simply cannot expect the level of quality Subaru offers.
It does have more power and more room, but remember, Ford had a clean sheet of paper to start with, and 3 years extra time to develop it. The 2001 Forester was just a mild update.
To address the wagon look and power, there is an enormous aftermarket industry. You can get the Roo Bar and lights, fender flares, dust deflectors, lift kits, and bigger wheels and tires. That plus a free flowing exhaust, cold air intake and a pulley for more power.
$2 grand would buy a lot of those mods. You could have one heck of a Forester.
I'll be able to tell more after tomorrow. Edmunds Live is coming to DC, and I'll get to drive the Escape and the 2001 Forester back to back. I'll give a full report on Monday.
-juice
-mike
!!!!!!!
You're a very very bad man.
Dave #274
Good luck.
Mark
We informed folks will still enjoy blowing them away in the twisties!
Yes, thank you, Frank! SUV is just a marketing label, it's really a truck-based station wagon, it just sounds better. Let's break it down:
Sport: the Forester will outhandle any similarly priced SUV on a race track. Anything else may even tip over trying to keep up.
Utility: any extra room is offset by a high lift over for cargo, and a roof rack too high to be useful. Try lifting a baby seat into a tall SUV. OK, it can tow more, but that's about it.
Vehicle: you got me there! They are vehicles!
-juice
Drew
I'm not too happy with all this talk about the Firestone Wilderness A/T tires. They came with my '98 Explorer, and, at 70K, I just put a new set on about two months ago. I'm sensing this problem may appear to be hot-weather related. Keeping my fingers crossed!
Bob
-juice
Ross
Point 1: Sucks gas--Subaru Automatic 21/27, Ford Escape: 6 cyl 20/24 mpg, 4 cyl 23/28. The Subaru 4 cylinder does have a slight gas mileage advantage over the 6 cylinder.
Point 2: Isn't significantly faster is still faster.
Point 3: Doesn't offer manual transmission with the V6. Subaru doesn't offer a 6 cylinder on the Forester at all. The H6 will not be offered with a manual transmission (at least at first).
Point 4: Lacks AWD. Not true--although the AWD may not be as good as Subaru's, it does have available AWD (according to Car and Driver). Ford doesn't offer limited slip front/rear differentials at this time. Honestly, though, neither vehicle is an true off road vehicle. Both are actually designed to be rough-road vehicles. For a true off-road vehicle, I would take the Jeep Wrangler anyday.
Point 5: Roll bars, push bars, and fog lights makes the Forester look like a tricked out 80's model Volvo station wagon(they're boxy but they're good).
Point 6: If I was worried about high lift over height or a high roof rack, I would buy an Outback. I'm 6'2, and can barely fit in the back seat of the Forester. I can sit in the back of the Escape with the front seat pushed all the way back and still have a little leg room. I believe the Ford will be near the top of its class in cargo room (please correct me if I am wrong).
Point 7: If I were taking it to the track, I would buy a Legacy GT--except Subaru hasn't put an engine with decent power in the Gt's yet. The H4 just doesn't cut the mustard.
Point 8: Towing capacity. 2000# for the Subaru (once again, please correct me if I am wrong) vs. 3500# for the Escape. That is the difference between an empty and a loaded boat trailer.
Point 9: Quality. I will readily admit that Subaru, in general, does have higher build quality. However, my parents have always had excellent luck with their Fords. They've had 6 in twenty years and every one has live to 100k with minimal maintenance. They live on a rough dirt road, and my mom's multiple Tauruses and Sables all lasted to 130k before she traded them in. My dad have an '85 Ford pickup that he ABUSED and it lasted to 210k before he finally traded it in. Our '95 Impreza has never left pavement and has hardly ever seen snow (we live in SE Georgia) and I have had some minor problems with it.
Any responses would be appreciated!
-Bryan
P.S. Two Explorers with the Firestone Wilderness tires have lost their tread within 50 miles of my house, causing several injuries and one fatality. I am not very optimistic about my tires!
1) Adopting a Forester
Considering a used Forester in the next couple of years or so, to avoid the dreaded "drive-your-new-car-an-inch-off-the-lot-zap!-knock-$3K-off-your-value" depreciation syndrome.
Our situation:
My wife and I are planning to have two kids over the next few years. We also have an 85 lb. puppy (named "Sushi"). So...
a) Is the Forester roomy enough for two adults, two baby seats, a medium-big dog, plus a full load of "stuff" filling up the rear cargo compartment?
I guess another way to ask this is: How doable is a rear seat with two baby seats and one adult squeezing in?
b) I heard the Outback has a rear seat option with a built-in dedicated baby seat that folds out. If that even exists, is that an option with the Forester?
c) My wife has a concern that if we carry the dog in the rear cargo area, that the dog would be in danger in the event of any rear ender. Is that a valid concern, in your opinions?
d) Also heard that the cargo area has an optional "Dog Package", which includes a screen separating the cargo area from the rear seat, plus a special lining in the cargo area, that resists clawing and chewing. Does anyone have any feedback on that?
2) Subaru Servicing
We've been extremely happy with a local independent auto repair firm that specializes in Hondas. It's one of those places where they know your name and loyal clients have been going there for years and years.
Do you have any similar places you'd recommend, that specialize in Subarus? We live in San Jose, CA.
Well, that's all (for now!) folks!
-- Herb
The Forester does carry quite a bit for a vehicle in it's class, but honestly, I don't know if you could comfortably squeeze and adult in between two child seats in the back. Maybe juice can help on that one.
Yes, Subaru does have a screen that goes up behind the rear passenger seat so you can have a dog in the cargo area. The cargo area also has fasteners in every corner so you could keep your dog saftely secured. Also, you can get a cargo liner which basically covers the entire floor of the cargo area. This is a great accessory to have.
I personally don't know of a Subaru specialist, but I have been taking my vehicle in to Courtesy Subaru on Stevens Creek Blvd in SJ. They have been fairly responsive.
A big deciding factor was power, gas mileage, and transmission. The Escape V-6 is nice, but it doesn't come with a 5-spd (yet). That alone marked it way down in my book. As far as mileage, Car and Driver managed 17 mpg in mixed driving, a "bit" lower than Ford's 20/24 EPA ratings (most Forester/Outback owners tend to do better than EPA). If you want better mileage or a 5-spd with an Escape, you're stuck with an awful 130HP Zetec 4-cyl engine. The power-to-weight ratio alone puts this combo into the snail territory, never mind the low refinement of the engine and Ford's awful manual transmission.
In my informal comparison, the 5-spd powertrain of the Outback/Forester was the better combination all around, no doubt about it. For other folks with other tastes, that may not be the case. If you're happy with V-6/Auto and not worried about the gas bill, the Escape offers a compelling package.
As far as quality, Fords are OK in my experience, but statistics put Ford way below Honda, Toyota, and Subaru. I would still buy a Ford if they had a product I liked, but I probably would wait until the second model year -- I have heard countless people advise not buying Fords or Chryslers in their first year. I would hope the Mazda design and development influence would help the Escape some.
All said, I think the Escape/Tribute is going to be the best mini-ute out there. It's going to whomp the CR-V, at least until the 2002 CR-V shows up. But again, I don't think either vehicle is a direct competitor to the Subaru wagons. There is overlap between the mini-ute and sport-wagon markets, but the Subarus will continue to be in (and dominate) a category of their own.
Craig
Stephen
Of course, the Forester drives much better, but if you never even test drive one, how would you know what you are missing? Let's hope that this new kid on the block gives Subaru a new target to market against (no offense to Martina and her gal-friends, but it's time for "Built Soob Tough"
Craig
I hadn't thought of it before, but something for all those shopping for any car: bring a tire gauge and check the tire pressures before you test drive. Set those tires to spec and then take your test drive. You'll get a true feeling for the ride.
Just my 2 cents.
-subearu
Legacy:
http://www.zerosports.co.jp/message/image/backlegacysvga.jpg
Forester:
http://www.zerosports.co.jp/message/image/backforestersvga.jpg
Impreza:
http://www.zerosports.co.jp/message/image/wallpapersvga.jpg
Point 1 - Okay so maybe I exaggerated a little but as Craig pointed out, C/D only averaged 17 mpg with the Escape while my Forester avgs 27 mpg.
Point 2 - A test drive is really necessary to see if there's a noticeable difference. Hopefully Juice & Co will be able to provide some insight after their direct road test comparison this weekend.
Point 3 - My point was that if you're in the market for a new car today...then you can't get a manual trans with the 6-cyl Escape. And what's with the goofy column mounted shifter in a so-called "Sporty" vehicle?
Point 4 - Escape has an "optional" 4WD set-up that doesn't compare to the Forester's standard AWD. That's especially true for on-road driving conditions where most drivers stay.
Point 5 - I'll agree that some of the SUV type accessories look a little ridiculous on the Forester.
Point 6 - I'm also 6-2 and you're right...I wouldn't want to go any further than across town in the back seat of my Forester. But then that's not something I have to worry about since I'll be driving! For the less than 5% of the time that I transport several adults, the taller folks simply sit up front. If you routinely transport 3 or more large adults, then the Forester definitely isn't for you (but then the Escape probably isn't either).
Point 7 - Juice was merely pointing out that the Forester should handle better than the Escape (again we should get more feedback after this weekend). And yes there are plenty of vehicles that handle better than the Forester....just none in its class (IMHO).
Point 8 - Yes the Escape has a higher towing capacity but neither vehicle is likely to be suitable for someone with substantial towing requirements. And I want to know what 1500 lb boat needs a 2000 lbs trailer?
Point 9 - As others have pointed out, quality and reliability are more important to some people than others in the decision making process.
Point 10 - Even where you live in SE GA, Subaru's AWD affords valuable peace of mind on rain slicked roads. Speaking of which...isn't your area of the country coming into prime hurricane season?
- Frank P.
Unfortunately, most people react to gut or "surface" issues, like: "it just fits me better." Most customers (my wife's a good example) will react to the roominess, or lack-there-of, and base (most of their) purchase decision on that issue alone.
At first (and second) glance, the Escape/Tribute appear to be very compelling vehicles. If you dig a little deeper, that may not be the case.
Bob
Stephen
http://www.wave.net/diveguy/Dave
and gettim' dirty. They love it. I've seen precious few Soobs (read: none) on dirt roads, but lotsa trucks, jeeps and those SUVs.
Now my old man has a GMC Suburban--has had them since 1977. That's an SUV, and he uses it as such. He lives in Eastern Oregon. He's a member of the Sheriff's Search and Rescue Possee, going up onto little used fire roads hauling a bunch of people, to find a disembark spot to go seek lost hunters and such. He tows a 30' trailer to Arizona every spring--hence the 350 V8. There's a few people who use these rigs as they should be.
The rest are like the plague here in L.A.: polluting the atmosphere for a status symbol and cursing those damn A-rabs for making gas cost so much.