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Seriously though...
Thanks for the input, I'm probably gonna go with subaru-crew.com so look for more info in a month or 2...
-mike
Anyway, the most important thing is to register appropriate keywords with major search engines, so that this site will quickly pop up in response to all relevant searches.
-mike
What's in a name, though? Good content is what counts. You only need to know the URL once. If it's good you bookmark it, if not you won't pay another visit, most likely.
gus: Ken & Barbie - LOL! You should post that in the Forester vs. CR-V topic.
-juice
Daniel
Might I suggest getting
In any event I think you are being smart to consider the legal ramifications. Domain names and copyright issues are a quagmire these days; you certainly don't want to find yourself unexpectedly dragged into it.
Good luck with whatever you decide to go with, and I can't wait to see it!
Dsackman:
I'm sorry to hear about your accident. From your description of conditions, I think the folks who wrote about ice are right. I hope your car did not suffer too much; your pride most certainly should not! Ice changes everything. Probably nothing short of studded tires or or hydrophilic winter tires would have made much difference.
Cheers,
-wdb
I had a blast driving my Forester around the fresh powder (pics to follow soon). Even with my stock tires, I had no problems plowing through the deep stuff. It was fun clambering up the long driveway up to the house we were staying. Our group of nine drove up in 2 Foresters, a Passat 4Mo wagon and a Honda Civic. Needless to say, the Civic had the hardest time getting around.
Unfortunately, the winter storm at Yosemite also damaged another Subaru -- mine.
I was driving on highway 41 up towards Badger Pass at about 25-30MPH. I was coming around a left turn that was banked to the left when my rear started sliding out to the right. I tried recovering by not applying any sudden brakes or gas and steering into the direction of the slide. No dice. I was on ice.
As my rear began sliding out, my Forester rotated counter-clockwise and I began sliding head first towards the snowbank on the left on the opposite lane. I managed to turn enough so that I was almost parallel but I struck the snowbank with the front right (passenger side) corner. The impact didn't completely stop my rotation and my rear passenger side bumper also tapped the snowbank. My Forester rotated a bit more and finally came to a stop almost pointed back in the direction I was originally going.
Luckily, there was no traffic at all at the time it happened. Shortly afterwards, several cars and trucks came by and all of them were sliding around.
Based on my preliminary inspection, it looks like the passenger side front fender area took the most damage. The impact with the snowbank seemed to have pushed in the sheetmetal such that the fender flare buckled up a bit. The deformation also caused the wheel well lining to pop out in a couple of places including the plastic skidplate. Luckily, there were no scratches or dents.
My rear passenger side bumper also got some damage too. The bumper seems just a tad misaligned and my splash gaurd is loose (one of the screws popped out).
I was worried about any alignment or frame damage, but my Forester tracked straight and drove well on the trip back to the Bay Area.
The positive side of the whole incident is that no one was injured and that the damage was relatively minor. Also, I explained to my wife how the VDC wagon could have prevented that whole accident (she was pretty freaked out) and now she's warming up to the idea of trading up to an OB VDC.
Ken
Not to hurt your chances of upgrading, but winter tires could have prevented the accident as well. ;-)
-Colin
Shhhhh. Let's not kill a good thing here. ;-)
Ken
Sorry Ken to hear this. I guess trading up to VDC might be a good idea if you go up to the mountains in such conditions. We're still thinking of getting a vacation place up Hwy 4 (now we're looking at Arnold), so we might look into VDC as well.
Keep us posted about your body shop adventures. Whatever you do, don't even come close to B&S Hacienda in Livermore/Pleasanton. Bad, bad place. I bet your Forester will be out much sooner than mine...
I say just pull of the fender and create the world's largest custome cold air intake! ;-)
Sorry, just trying to cheer you up.
There is a rumor spreading on i Club that the Forester will get a turbo, and soon. WRXGirl works for iSR Subaru, a dealership in Cali, and seems convinced about it. A few others chimed in to agree, citing different sources.
To Patti: YES! Do it! And while you're at it, what about VDC option for the Forester line, so someone like Ken can still hit the trails as he has been?
-juice
juice -- Funny you should mention that. The same thought crossed my mind when I saw the fender liner completely open.
Ken
Hey here's an idea. Show the clip to your wife :-)
juice, adding VDC to the Forester would be a great idea. While they're at it, might as well add head curtain airbags too.
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
-mike
Cheers Pat. PS really glad nobody was hurt a vehicle can be fixed or replaced.
Did I just say that? paisan drive faster? Is that possible? ;-)
Maybe mine will get damaged and I can buy a new WRX or Forester GT when they come out...
Nah! Sandy's been too good to me.
-jucie
Here are some photos from my Yosemite trip (before the fender-bender).
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1495716&a=11281885
In one of the photos, I had my friend snap a photo as I stomped on the gas. You can see all four tires spinning.
Ken
You might want to consider the fact that websites with hyphens in the middle of the URL are confusing for those trying to reach them for the first time.
juice -- Duh. My bad. Thanks for pointing that out. I've moved them into the album now.
Ken
I got a tad lower (25.5mpg) while I was there. That's also great considering it was about 25 degrees outside most of the time, I was driving on mountain roads at 6000 ft and I was relying on engine braking quite a bit for the snow.
Ken
A tad late so I'll keep it short: Daniel and Ken, sorry to here about your accidents; thankfully 'twas property and not limb. Wow, ice is bad news.
Colin, short of studs, would winter tires have helped on ice (it's too mild around DC for me to know the answer)?
..Mike
..Mike
Anyway, I'd also be in favor of a VDC option for the Forester, though I rather doubt that I'd be able to afford it.
Up here in Ontario, Canada, we get our fair share of snow and ice. I put Yokohoma Guardex's on my Mazda MX-6 (a 5sp, V6), and I have rarely lost traction now for 2 winters, even on suspicious surfaces. (The standard MX-6 tires are Potenza RE-92s. They do lots of spinning in snow and ice!)
Then there is my 2000 Outback with its standard Firestone tires. All-season and mud tires they may be, but they are certainly not winter tires. My traction is noticeably worse with these tires than on my MX-6 with its ice tires. Just about every corner I slip and slide.
so IMHO winter tires are a must have in a wintery climate - and yes, they do make a huge difference
Tires are what gives a vehicle traction for corners and braking.
AWD can get you get going when you are stuck, and can get you out of a slide (if you accelerate such that some traction is produced), but it is not going to help you grip the road any better.
I agree with you here. However, a stability control system will do a lot to prevent the sliding from happening in the first place. I can think of one instance right now. Last year, BMW loaned an X5 to a couple of people to participate in the Alcola (I think that's what it's called) winter rally; in return, they wrote a story for the BMW Roundel magazine. Despite studded winter tires, both of those professional drivers had a very hard time controlling the X5 with its stability control system off on the snow/ice sections; it kept breaking loose and oversteering. They eventually left the system on and found that there was far more control, especially on glare ice.
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
Ash already answered it, but I'll agree: absolutely. We get more ice than snow here and there is absolutely no comparison between real winter tires and the best all-season on either surface. Yes, modern studless winter tires do work on ice. Studs are better, but extremely noisy and hell on the roads.
-Colin
..Mike
..Mike
When we go on our ski trip next week, I plan on putting the VDC through it's paces. I'll look for some extra slick stuff and report back when we get home.
From what we are hearing, we should have plenty of Subaru weather in Maine, so, I'm planning on lot's of fun!
Patti
Tires built for rain eject water to avoid hydroplaning. Problem is, in snow and ice, you're stripping off the only layer that could potentially give you grip, if there is ice underneath.
Mike's right, though. We've had only two light storms all year. It seems like only one out of every two or three winters are worse than mild.
-juice
The first hydrophilic tires I ever heard of were made by Continental, and the tread on them was blue! The stuff they put in rubber to make it black was hydroPHOBIC (water-hating, or water-repelling), so they left it out. I guess they've found a way around that since then because the new stuff isn't blue anymore (although that might be interesting...)
http://autoclassroom.com/glossary/h.html
Cheers,
-wdb
..Mike
..Mike
Most of you saw my winter tire pics when I posted them in November, but if not (or you want a refresher) take a look here. Click on the image for an even higher res version (~250kb).
My tires are considerably less foamy than Blizzaks but still can't be confused for dry traction tires. ;-)
-Colin
I've read several posts lately regarding testing out the VDC in snowy/icy conditions.
Are the VDC owner's that have done this using their stock tires?
juice- In that i-club thread about the Turbo Forester, Pam is also dropping a turbo into her Forester.
Dennis
I don't know. Since I mounted my winter tires we probably have had dry conditions 80% of the time but I am still extremely glad to have them when the nasty stuff arrives. I paid about $450 including shipping, which is less than my deductable, and it takes me about 20 minutes to change tires. 30 minutes if I'm taking it easy.
Anyway, chains are tempting if your Subaru has enough fender clearance to be able to use them... especially in a really limited use situation like you have. But if you can't use chains, then I would like to offer to the other members it's better to spend $450 or so plus 30 minutes of your time changing wheels than trying to navigate icy / snowy roads on any kind of all-season. Usually you'll be fine with the all-season, but the traction difference is so dramatic once you have winter tires you'll wonder how/why you did without.
Oh, there is another factor in getting a dedicated set of snow tires / wheels-- storing them.
-Colin
Any thoughts on fitting chains on the Outback?
Daniel
Nice pix, Colin. Those look like they'd be pretty noisy. Ah, the trade offs.
Kate: same problem we have. Colin had snow 20% of the time; for us it's more like 1-2%.
Here are my suggestions:
* drive at the same speed you would drive a 2WD car, so AWD is an extra margin of safety
* carry some sand with you, maybe even a shovel
* go to a safe place to learn how your vehicle behaves in slippery conditions
Bonus: the 3rd is a lot of fun!
-juice
-Colin
I also agree that dedicated winter tires are probably a very worthwhile investment if you do do a lot of snow driving. Unfortunately, the winters are very mild here in the Bay Area and we only see snow if we go to the mountains. Even then, the chances of hitting a major snowstorm like I did are relatively low. I think most people here get by with all-seasons.
Dropping $500 on a set of winter tires on some steelies is kind of tough under these conditions -- until you realize that that's about the same cost as most insurance deductibles.
Next time, VDC and snow tires. Now we're talkin!
Ken
Maybe for you a set of steelies with more aggressive mud/snow tires (real ones with the snow flake logo) would be appropriate.
-juice
I probably hit the mountains at least 2-3 times a winter. Probably would be a good investment. Just storage space would be an issue.
What tools do people use for swapping tires at home? I'll probably need some jackstands and a torque wrench to start.
I thought all snowflake logo tires were dedicated winter tires and not necessarily off-road tires. Is there a new product out there?
Ken
They gave me a OB Ltd. Sedan as a loaner -- sweet!
My initial impressions:
- Much quieter inside. Definetly better for long trips but I also felt a bit too removed from road feedback. Very nicely appointed.
- I actually like the gated shifter design. I liked being able to drop it into 3rd without worrying it would overshoot.
- Power was adequate -- I did find myself shifting down to 3rd on the twisties.
- Perhaps it was the Firestone Wilderness, but it didn't have as an "on-center" steering feel as my Forester.
- Also possibly due to the tires, but I found myself chirping the tires on turns that I could normally take with the Forester.
This has to be the best service experience yet!
Ken
I have an X shaped lug nut wrench. It gives you double the leverage and you can spin the lugs off in seconds. I also use this to get them back on quickly (but do not tighten as it's easy to over-torque them).
I use a torque wrench to tighten - try 19 or 20mm sockets. 3/4" may also work.
What else? A good hydraulic floor jack. You can get two tires off the ground at a time, quick and easy. Jack stands just in case.
Your loaner may also have chirped if the auto was sending 90% of the power to the fronts.
-juice
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
If you haven't read Edmunds.com's confessions of a car salesman, I highly recommend you do so. I found it very entertaining, and yet enlightening as to what may go on in auto dealerships.
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
I have heard that it can be tough to find chains for the Outbacks. There is a company called ShurGrip (I'll get the correct spelling and their link and post it later). They make a "Z" chain that we hear works well on our cars. They also advertise that they work on our vehicles. I've spoken to a few customers who have used them and the reviews were positive.
Post with info. to come later today!
Patti
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
-mike