I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

uplanderguy · April 2019

Here's an Eldo I'd like to own:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/CH1015-224202/1966-cadillac-eldorado-convertible/

Mr_Shiftright · April 2019

There you go! 10X better than a '76

stickguy · April 2019

way too big but dang, that is a real Cadillac.

uplanderguy · April 2019

I typically don't like huge cars, but I always liked how that era Eldo is a Fleetwood convertible.

ab348 · April 2019

That ‘66 is a nice car but I do not like black on black convertibles.

bhill2 · April 2019

I remember an incident in the early '70s, when I was in college. One of my work chums in my subsistence job was from England, and was an auto racing buff. We were walking down the street one day and walked past the front of an Eldo. Suddenly I realized that he was no longer beside me. When I turned around he was staring in disbelief at the grille, saying "8.2 liters?? 8.2 liters??!??" I thought I was going to have to defibrillate him.

explorerx4 · April 2019

In the parking lot at work a new gray Jetta.
Where I work there are a lot of steep transitions form the parking lots across sidewalks to the street.
I don't think that splitter on the front of the Mustang would last very long.

sda · April 2019

bhill2 said:
I remember an incident in the early '70s, when I was in college. One of my work chums in my subsistence job was from England, and was an auto racing buff. We were walking down the street one day and walked past the front of an Eldo. Suddenly I realized that he was no longer beside me. When I turned around he was staring in disbelief at the grille, saying "8.2 liters?? 8.2 liters??!??" I thought I was going to have to defibrillate him.

I was 15 in 74 when we moved to Europe, lived in England and France. Being a car nut I couldn’t get over all the cars with 850cc to 1.6 L engines. Dad’s company car, a 74 Ford Cortina E had a large 2L. He explained to me cars with engine sizes greater than 1.6 are taxed progressively more, and beyond a certain size, tremendously more. I don’t remember the specifics and imagine it is still that way.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2019

This '76 Eldo just sold at Barrett-Jackson for $7,700 but that's with auction commissions, so hammer price was under $7K. The bloom is definitely off the rose with these cars.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2019

This car brought more money than the Cadillac !!

ab348 · April 2019

tjc78 said:
I like the convertibles, but can't warm up to the coupes as much. What is really funny is for the sheer size of those cars, look at the rear legroom.

Bill Mitchell of GM Design had the right idea back in the '60s when he had the boys in the GM fab shop build this up for his personal use:

No rear legroom issues because he got rid of the back seat!

sda · April 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:
This car brought more money than the Cadillac !!

Fewer Pacers out there for sure. Did AMC put a hood dome on it to accommodate the 304 V8? I like the cleaner look of the original.

fintail · April 2019

Those mid 70s Eldos make me think of this:

Dare I say, a pristine original Pacer, especially an early X, has some appeal in a weird way, and would be a hit at shows.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2019

So many people hoarded '76 Eldos, thinking they would be "the last American convertibles". Hah, fooled ya' says GM.

In any event, they are still coming out of the woodwork now that many of the original hoarders are passing. Naturally the glut depresses the market.

ab348 · April 2019

Wasn't it Chrysler that first brought back the American convertible with their K-car versions?

andre1969 · April 2019

uplanderguy said:
What is really funny is for the sheer size of those cars, look at the rear legroom.

I know, really inexcusable.

Anyway, I digress, but I bet a '78 Malibu coupe has more rear-seat legroom than those last big Eldorados.

Actually, I can think of one excuse, for that Eldorado. It was designed by stylistes, rather than efficiency experts. So, they came up with the style and proportioning they wanted, and basically just worked the seating positions, trunk space, etc around that.

Anything you could do, to improve interior room, would mess up the proportioning. If you pushed that back seat a bit further aft, between the wheels, you'd either lose headroom, or you'd have to alter the roof. If you extended the wheelbase to give it more legroom in back, you'd again, throw off the proportions. Try raising the roof a bit, to accommodate a higher seating position, and again, the proporting wouldn't look right.

Love or hate that style, I don't think there's a thing you could do to it to give it more interior room, without making it look worse. In fact, GM came to that same conclusion. I remember reading an article about how the '79 models came to be. Initially they wanted to keep the proportioning more or less intact, for that long personal luxury coupe look. But then they realized the finished product would be about 48" tall! So they gave up on even trying to make the '79's look anything remotely like the '78's, and went with the more crisp, formal, upright, neoclassic look.

As for legroom, I tried looking for the specs on the '71-78 Eldorado, but couldn't find any legroom measurements. However, I think the official measurement for the '78-81 Malibu coupes was 35.6" (too lazy to look it up right now). I had no trouble fitting in the back seat of the '80 I had. However, I also remember sitting in the back of a '77 or so Eldorado Biarritz once, and finding it comfortable. This was a good 25 years ago or more, but I was a full grown adult at the time.

For a few other comparisons of that era, I think the '73-77 GM intermediate coupes were 32.9" in back, while the '71-76 B-body coupes were only 35.0". Some of these figures though, you have to take with a grain of salt. I found the specs for my '67 Catalina convertible, and it's only 33.9" in back. Yet I fit fine back there. Meanwhile, my '03 Regal is rated something like 36-37", and the only adult that could fit back there is a double amputee.

andre1969 · April 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:
So many people hoarded '76 Eldos, thinking they would be "the last American convertibles". Hah, fooled ya' says GM.

In any event, they are still coming out of the woodwork now that many of the original hoarders are passing. Naturally the glut depresses the market.

Did Oldsmobile do some kind of special promotion for the '75 Delta 88 convertible? I wonder, because they managed to roll off about 21,000 of them that year, an awfully good showing for a body style that was dying out fast. For comparison, Buick only sold 5300 LeSabres, Chevy sold 8349 Caprice convertibles, and Pontiac only moved 4519 Grand Ville Brougham convertibles.

ab348 · April 2019

The latest issue (June) of Hemmings Classic Car has an article about a '75 Caprice convertible, red with a white interior. For the first time in memory, it deals with a car I know (sort of). It was a local car ordered by the owner of a now defunct Chevrolet dealership here in town, and he used it not only as his personal car for a while but also in parades and even kept it on display in his showroom in later years. I saw it numerous times. The dealership went bust in the '90s (a sad story about how he kept loaning money to his ne'er do well son), and after all the debts were settled he ended up with his house and not much else. I had interviewed him in the late '70s for a project I did in my MBA class, and he was a good guy, very generous with his time. The car was bought by the current owner in 2007 out of New Brunswick where it ended up after the dealer sold it, and it is now in Arizona.

One of the things the article doesn't mention was that this dealer did a fund-raiser for the lakeside community he lived in outside of town that was a benefit for either a swimming or a paddling group, I can't quite recall which. I think this was in '75 and was a big deal locally. He organized a lottery and had 50 Caprice convertibles as prizes for the winners and the draw was even televised locally. From what I recall it was pretty successful. He provided them at cost and for years after pretty much any '75 Caprice convertible you saw around town was one of them.

Here a pic of the car I scanned from the article.

sda · April 2019

ab348 said:
The latest issue (June) of Hemmings Classic Car has an article about a '75 Caprice convertible, red with a white interior. For the first time in memory, it deals with a car I know (sort of). It was a local car ordered by the owner of a now defunct Chevrolet dealership here in town, and he used it not only as his personal car for a while but also in parades and even kept it on display in his showroom in later years. I saw it numerous times. The dealership went bust in the '90s (a sad story about how he kept loaning money to his ne'er do well son), and after all the debts were settled he ended up with his house and not much else. I had interviewed him in the late '70s for a project I did in my MBA class, and he was a good guy, very generous with his time. The car was bought by the current owner in 2007 out of New Brunswick where it ended up after the dealer sold it, and it is now in Arizona.

One of the things the article doesn't mention was that this dealer did a fund-raiser for the lakeside community he lived in outside of town that was a benefit for either a swimming or a paddling group, I can't quite recall which. I think this was in '75 and was a big deal locally. He organized a lottery and had 50 Caprice convertibles as prizes for the winners and the draw was even televised locally. From what I recall it was pretty successful. He provided them at cost and for years after pretty much any '75 Caprice convertible you saw around town was one of them.

Here a pic of the car I scanned from the article.

Very nice, I thought the rear styling was handsome. The interior was a mild disappointment and not keeping with the Caprice image. It was basically the Impala vinyl interior complete with the basic Impala almost all plastic interior door panels.

explorerx4 · April 2019

@sda,
Those are weather resistant door panels.

ab348 · April 2019

I don't know if they did that with the convertibles in earlier model years, but I agree that it does not suit a Caprice. The front seat pictured in the article is a white vinyl bench with a split back for rear seat access, with a decent stitching pattern but no center armrest and as you say, the door panels are from an Impala.

andre1969 · April 2019

ab348 said:
I don't know if they did that with the convertibles in earlier model years, but I agree that it does not suit a Caprice. The front seat pictured in the article is a white vinyl bench with a split back for rear seat access, with a decent stitching pattern but no center armrest and as you say, the door panels are from an Impala.

The '71-72 Impala convertible just used the regular Impala panels where you got vinyl on the top half, and the lower part that had the armrest was plastic. The part at the bottom where they'd glue on the carpeting was bare. That seat pattern is what they used in the earlier Impala too, as I recall. It didn't upgrade any for '73.

Price-wise, Chevy jacked the convertible from a base price of $3979 in 1972 to $4345 for 1973. Sales went up a bit, from 6456 in '72 to 7339 in '73. But, '73 was a banner year in general. For comparison, price-wise, the Caprice hardtop coupe went from $4025 in 1972 to $4082 in 1973. So, they got a lot more profit in moving the convertible to the Caprice name.

IIRC, the '72 Impala convertible came with a 165 hp 350-2bbl, whereas Caprices used a standard 400. So moving to the 400 did give the '73 Caprice a bit of a boost in prestige I guess. Although, in '73 the 400 only had 150 hp. But the 350 in the Impala got choked down to 145!

uplanderguy · April 2019

As was typical of GM then on I think most everything, the top half of the door panel was soft vinyl and the bottom half, hard plastic. I did like how the armrests were "built in" and not screwed on as some other makes were still doing then.

Chevy offered a vinyl Caprice Classic interior in the sedans and coupes; why they didn't offer it in the wagons and convertible, who knows? (Those did indeed use the Impala seat and door trim.) Only thing I can think is it might've taken a little bloom off the B-O-P versions.

I sure don't remember, then or now, seeing more '75 Olds convertibles than Chevy, Buick, or Pontiac--well, maybe Pontiac!--but my auditor sense is telling me that one or more of those production numbers andre is suspect.

uplanderguy · April 2019

A couple things just slap me in the face about that blue Eldo convert.

Where's the rocker moldings?

And I certainly don't remember a blue that shade in any of the full-size GM lines that year. Yuck

sda · April 2019

Pontiac, Olds, Buick used the same plastic lower door panels with the molded in door pull but they didn’t look so cheap because they added color keyed carpet to the kick panel and red/white chrome framed curb/safety lamps. In addition the top vinyl part of the door panel was more thickly padded and elaborate. The Catalina is the exception and is similar to the Impala and Caprice.

bhill2 · April 2019

sda said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
This car brought more money than the Cadillac !!

Fewer Pacers out there for sure. Did AMC put a hood dome on it to accommodate the 304 V8? I like the cleaner look of the original.

No, the dome was part of the restyle. Went with the changed grille, I guess.

ab348 · April 2019

The Caprice door panel in those years also had a separate door pull mounted on the top half of the door panel which the convertible did not receive. Very odd.

andre1969 · April 2019

uplanderguy said:
As was typical of GM then on I think most everything, the top half of the door panel was soft vinyl and the bottom half, hard plastic. I did like how the armrests were "built in" and not screwed on as some other makes were still doing then.

Chevy offered a vinyl Caprice Classic interior in the sedans and coupes; why they didn't offer it in the wagons and convertible, who knows? (Those did indeed use the Impala seat and door trim.) Only thing I can think is it might've taken a little bloom off the B-O-P versions.

I sure don't remember, then or now, seeing more '75 Olds convertibles than Chevy, Buick, or Pontiac--well, maybe Pontiac!--but my auditor sense is telling me that one or more of those production numbers andre is suspect.

I wonder what made GM go back to bolt-on style armrests for the B-bodies in the '77 downsizing? I'm kind of torn on which style I prefer. On one hand, the integrated armrests were nice, but on the other, I just hated that big lower slab of plastic. Worse, as the cars aged, the plastic, vinyl, carpet, and fabric would all fade to different variations of the same color and start to clash.

As for the wagons, I think you might be correct, in that they kept the Chevy a bit cheap, so that it didn't encroach too much on the other versions. Ford could get away with making their Country Squire pretty ritzy inside, because the only thing they really had to compete with was the Mercury.

And I've wondered if that 21,000 units was a misprint for the '75 Delta 88, as well. Of the four B-body convertibles, I'd say it's actually the one I see the least often at car shows. I think the last one I saw was was at Carlisle one year...I remember a white one that had a Pontiac 400. I forget the details on that, but for whatever reason, I think there was a shortage of engines, so a few hundred Delta 88s got the Pontiac 400, whereas normally, you just got the Olds 350 or the 455.

kyfdx · April 2019

Had original window sticker. $4100

kyfdx · April 2019

ab348 · April 2019

Those straight-out aftermarket chrome exhaust pipes on plain-jane cars like that always bug me for some reason. A car like that should have turn-downs.

fintail · April 2019

My dad had a 70 Mustang when I was born, replaced by the Horizon. Unfortunately, I have yet to find a good pic of it, just this one with the nose of the car peeking in at right:

tjc78 · April 2019

Is that you?

It is funny all my pictures from that age taken by the parents have those same hues. Much different color than we are used to today

andre1969 · April 2019

That reminds me...I have a pic somewhere of me standing by my parents' '64 Galaxie somewhere, as a little kid. I'll have to see if I can find it and scan it in. It's funny too, how your memory can play tricks on you. I can remember that car being sort of a Robin's egg blue, but in the pic, it looks more greenish.

Similarly, I can remember the '68 Impala that my grandparents handed down to my Mom as being more of a bright, bluish green. But, there's also a pic of Granddad standing by the car, when it was new, and it looks more of a toned-down silvery green.

I guess it could just be the film stock they used back then, too. Plus, those pics are 40-50 years old now, so they might have faded a bit

Mr_Shiftright · April 2019

Never did like the "fat" Mustangs.

berri · April 2019

If the 70 Mustang was fat, the 71 was chronically obese

andre1969 · April 2019

Hmm...turns out those pics I mentioned weren't as buried as I thought. So, here they are. Here's me, with the '64 Galaxie…

I'm not sure how old this pic is. I think Granddad got us that car to use in 1973, and then he gave it to a friend of the family around 1977 or 1978, after Mom and Dad divorced, and we didn't need it anymore. There's no date on the pic.

Here's Granddad with the Impala, dated April 1968...

Is it just me, or does that car look a bit jacked up in the back? The rear tires definitely look over-sized. I know Grandmom and Granddad used to tow camping trailers, so maybe Granddad put heavy duty shocks or springs on it? The trailers were never anything huge (you can see one in the background in that '64 Ford pic), but then the car just had a 327, IIRC. It could just be an optical illusion, too. That driveway is circular, and the rear axle of the car is roughly at the highest point of it, so it could just be the slope making the car look jacked up.

omarman · April 2019

Must not have sold many '70 Mustang V-8 coupes with a $4100 sticker. That's more than the base price on a '70 Boss 302. That red Mustang above looks all wrong.

This is a '70 Mustang Grande survivor. Correct stance trim and quarter extension fit.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2019

berri said:
If the 70 Mustang was fat, the 71 was chronically obese

Oh I meant 71-73

andre1969 · April 2019

omarman said:
Must not have sold many '70 Mustang V-8 coupes with a $4100 sticker. That's more than the base price on a '70 Boss 302. That red Mustang above looks all wrong.

Depending on how they were optioned though, it didn't take much to jack up the prices on cars back then. I had a 1969 Dart GT hardtop that had an MSRP of around $3600. And it just had a 225 slant six! The big kicker though, was that it had air conditioning. The base MSRP of that car was $2672, according to my old car book. But, throw on the automatic, a/c, power steering, 3-speed electric wipers, windshield tint, AM radio, larger slant six, and other odds and ends, and it didn't take much to jack it up.

As for Mustangs, even though the '71-73 are viewed as the "fat ones", there's just something about the '70 that also make it look chunky to me. Moreso than the '69, which isn't that different. Maybe it's the headlight treatment. The headlights moved inboard a bit on the '70, make it look fatter to me, somehow.

fintail · April 2019

Yep, I think I was maybe 3. I vaguely recall both the car and that pleather/leather jacket which I think I was fond of. Something about the the film used, and the way the paper aged, can really make a pic scream "late 70s".

I don't have any pics on me of cars my dad had before I was born, but I do have one of him with a new bike, 1965 I think, another one where the hues are unique. This is a Honda CB450, which I think was a fairly hot bike:

tjc78 said:
Is that you?

It is funny all my pictures from that age taken by the parents have those same hues. Much different color than we are used to today

sda · April 2019

This picture has a similar hue. Dad was showing me the fine points of waxing a car, however, I was more interested in just being with him. I have waxed many cars since! This was their 69 Olds 98 LS, I think around 70-71 and I was 11ish.

explorerx4 · April 2019

Stopped over with his red air cooled 911, just so I could listen to it.
I guess decided not to buy the other car his wife told me he was going pick up in NC.
He even called it his 'dead man' car, will never sell

berri · April 2019

Neat looking at these old Kodacolor prints and cars. Gives a bit of a feel for the era they were taken in.

explorerx4 · April 2019

I wish I had a picture of my dad's '70 Electra 225 parked in the garage.
It was an old garage and the door came down just behind the rear window.

berri · April 2019

I think pictures with cars from the latter 60's and on aren't really all that common. Often they are just in the background of something being photographed. That's a reason they are fun to see.

fintail · April 2019

I know I have shown this before, but I like the pic, and it has old hues This is my grandpa with his 65 Chrysler - pic was taken probably close to a decade before I was born, but this is what I remember him looking like, he aged well I guess. Apparently this was a very good car (383) my uncle still talks fondly of it. It was apparently better than the fuselage model that replaced it:

ab348 · April 2019

The pic and story I posted yesterday about the '75 Caprice convertible led me to some other pictures of the Bob McDonald Chev-Olds dealership here in town. On the subject of pictures of cars from the '60s/'70s, here are a few that were found in a booklet produced about the dealership. Unfortunately in B&W but a look back in time.

explorerx4 · April 2019

@ab348.
There's nothing bad about great black and white photos.
Is driver100 in that picture of the driving instructors?
I don't see a gray striped shirt.

kyfdx · April 2019

IIRC, $28XX base price on that '70 Mustang sticker.

351 V8
automatic
A/C
traction lok axle
and various other options.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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