I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail · March 2020

IIRC they cost ~90K new, and are now somewhat collectible.

kyfdx said:

Nice spotting

tjc78 · March 2020

@fintail
You’ve probably seen it, but Hoovie on You Tube bought one of those.

uplanderguy · March 2020

10-minute video of an owner showing off his 1963 Hawk.

Thanks for posting; I hadn't seen that one although I had seen Lou interviewing a guy about his '63 Super Hawk, and I'd met that guy before.

Purely for authenticity purposes, this Hawk has Lark wheelcovers (with the white band; Hawks had the same wheelcovers but no white band), and the optional door handle guards are installed upside-down, which I see on probably half (really) of the cars I see them on. Even right-side-up, to my eyes they add nothing to the cars.

I really like the Gran Turismo Hawks in profile, and when equipped with the optional tach you get a nice, full set of instruments in a wraparound panel. For me, in the '62-64 model years most-specifically, I think Studebaker did a whole lot for a small company. Although, when I first visited South Bend in the eighties, when most of the old Studebaker buildings were still there, it became apparent to me that a small car company is still a very large company indeed.

uplanderguy · March 2020

Found this AMC ad comparing the American to the Beetle.

I'll be the first to admit, that American is the closest thing to a generic car ever built. And that from a guy who likes Studebaker Larks a lot. But I will say, the design does seem practical, in and out, for the price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-RAMBLER-American-220-Vintage-Original-2-page-Print-AD-2-cars-photo-VW-1500-/401710489284

I'm almost certain I can remember a dealer advertising them for $1,799.

uplanderguy · March 2020

A South Bend-built '64 Lark Challenger for $1,629? Sign me up!

benjaminh · March 2020

Jay Leno adds a 1958 Continental III to his garage. Original paint....!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh1ZU_lUPWM

uplanderguy · March 2020

Talk about excess! Funny, a Studebaker buddy forwarded me that same clip.

uplanderguy · March 2020

Well, why don't we do model year 1971 now? Midway between '66 and '76, which have been done. I'm working now but I'll add mine later. What would everybody buy?

kyfdx · March 2020

kyfdx · March 2020

kyfdx · March 2020

kyfdx · March 2020

uplanderguy · March 2020

I think this would be my first choice, '71 Monte Carlo SS in this deep blue. If we were talking '70, I'd take a Pontiac Grand Prix SJ before this. I can't figure how to post the pic without the link.

https://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/chevy/71mc/bilder/8.jpg

After this, maybe a '71 Pontiac Grand Ville two-door hardtop with the Custom interior (filling in for the prior year's Bonneville Brougham), or perhaps a Grand Ville convertible.

Then, probably a blue '71 Impala Custom Coupe like this brochure photo:

https://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/chevy/71chev/bilder/4.jpg

Then, probably, believe it or not, a Vega GT. I'd follow the advice of the guy who runs the Vega Facebook page and is the foremost Vega guy in the 'States, and who has a very neat, stock '71 panel express, about checking coolant and replacing the thermostat and water pump at 40K miles that first model year, LOL. The brochure photo is small so I'm not using it. I'd get the Custom Interior (Camaro buckets), hood stripe, and never drive it in the wet, LOL.

kyfdx · March 2020

^^^^^

kyfdx · March 2020

@uplanderguy

If you want the picture to load, be sure to get the URL of just the picture, not the whole webpage.

Michaell · March 2020

uplanderguy · March 2020

Thanks, noted.

stickguy · March 2020

I liked Ky’s picks. Up until the big chevies.

uplanderguy · March 2020

Those Chevys were my picks. The Monte Carlo SS454 is way-higher on my list than the Impala. Some interesting chassis pieces, not just the engine and body and interior beautiful.

I typically don't like barges, but I thought the Impala that year channelled Caddy--at a Chevy price. I can remember a light green Impala Custom coupe like this in the showroom on introduction night. It had a crowd of people around it--in a town of 8,700 people. It was a major styling and engineering change from 1970.

Where I lived then, I couldn't have bought or gotten any of those other cars serviced--except the Corvette. And even given that, a new Corvette was a rare sight at our hometown dealer's.

kyfdx · March 2020

stickguy said:
I liked Ky’s picks. Up until the big chevies.

Those aren’t mine. Those are @uplanderguy

fintail · March 2020

Yep, I've watched that one now and then. He proves that the cheapest example usually ends up as the most expensive. I suppose one to buy would be one he owned, as he has the resources to eventually address most problems.

tjc78 said:
@fintail
You’ve probably seen it, but Hoovie on You Tube bought one of those.

omarman · March 2020

In the 70s I had 2 used cars built in 1971. The '71 Mustang I had in HS was uncomfortable to sit in for long drives and difficult to drive on any wet road. After HS I bought a '71 LTD sedan from a teacher just for my work commute. But it was so comfortable that it became my all around daily driver until I sold it late in 1979.

In '79 I had a '72 Club Wagon with sliding door and I took a test drive in a new Dodge conversion van (shag carpet) with custom orange and black exterior trim. And dark tinted portholes. Dealer actually wanted $15k for that orange Dodge "Great Pumpkin." I really liked it but you had to love something for $15k back then.

My pick for 1971 is the E-200 with aftermarket camper conversion.

uplanderguy · March 2020

Again, despite that I normally am not a fan of enormous cars, I thought the '71 Cadillac redesign made the car a lot more modern. And I loved on the DeVilles, how there wasn't fake wood on the dash and doors, it was a brushed metal thing. But apparently, the public disagreed, as in '72, and I think even before the end of the '71 run, the cars had fake woodgrain.

I also liked the '71 Fleetwood Sixty Special Brougham that year, with the B-pillar which carried the vinyl from the top down, and the separation below the beltline of the front and rear doors--both nods to the classic era IMHO. One last Fleetwood thing--interiors were a three horizontal-cushion look on the backs, and the top two were cloth and the lowest, leather. Unique in my memory.

Conversely, I think the Eldorado got ruined that year.

ab348 · March 2020

Our family bought a new '71 in the fall of 1970. Mom and dad were looking at GM cars first but due to the UAW strike the dealers had virtually no inventory and no idea when they would get ordered vehicles. So then we went to the Ford dealer and while dad and I both liked the LTD, mom did not so that sealed it. We ended up with a '71 Dodge Monaco 4-door HT which was a really nice car. But not what I would buy.

1971 is interesting because GM went to low-compression engines that year while the other domestic makes did not, which put them at a slight power disadvantage. But they still offered huge engines so the disadvantage wasn't huge. I could go for a '71 4-4-2 convertible, or a Pontiac Trans-Am. But I might be even more tempted by a 'Cuda convertible optioned up with maybe a 440. No Japanese cars from that era appeal to me. A M-B 280SE appeals to me now but at the time I suspect it wouldn't have been on my radar.

uplanderguy · March 2020

The '71 Ford LTD looked nice I think--especially the three-piece lighting across the back--but just wingin' it, it seems like it wasn't as large as the GM or Chrysler cars. Whether or not that was a good thing, who can say.

fintail · March 2020

1971 cars, price no object:

MB 6.3 was the fastest sedan in the world, insanely complex, but a real sleeper:

Final year for W111 coupes and cabrios, I don't think the cabrios ever depreciated:

Ferrari Daytona is a classic:

ab348 · March 2020

I think it looked smaller for sure. Probably was slightly smaller in reality because both the GM and Chrysler full-sizers were massive in '71. I think Ford's best cars were their full-size models back then. They were the ones that they seemed to focus on the most.

andre1969 · March 2020

Doing a google search, here are a few specs for 1971...

Ford LTD: 121" wb, 216" overall
Chevrolet Impala/Caprice: 121.5" wb, 220" overall
Plymouth Fury: 120" wb, 215.1" overall.

I think Mopars tended to look bigger because their fuselage styling and small-ish windows made them look chunky. Plus, with the loop bumper, it was pretty flat-faced...in fact it looks like it's actually a bit wider at the edges. That's going to make a car look bigger than one that's more prow-shaped, such as the '71 Chevies, which had sort of a vee-shaped bumper and grille, and is going to have its maximum length down the center of the car.

Just eyeballing it, the '71-72 Fords still seemed pretty substantial to me. For me, it's the '69-70 and especially the '68 that seem a bit diminutive. In fact, every once in awhile, I'd see a '68 Galaxie and at a quick glance, mistake it for a Fairlane!

fintail · March 2020

As someone exposed to a lot of old Fords when I was younger, via my dad, I like the 69-70 LTD more than 71. Those hidden headlights. But I like 71-72 more than 74+, you could still get a hardtop.

uplanderguy · March 2020

Ford continued to allow you to get buckets and console in their full-size cars through '72 I think, which GM gave up on Chevys in '69 and Buicks and Oldses in '70. I like that, although Ford I'm thinking was using a woven vinyl which to me didn't look as nice as the naugahyde-style vinyls GM was using, although the woven was probably more comfortable to sit on.

I tend to obsess on some of the small details of cars negatively ("Oh really?" you say?!)--liking a certain car only if certain options were, or were not, included--but I never understood the optional side moldings on '72 big Fords. They were below those fender "brows", which seemed to me would've taken a door ding instead of being stopped by the molding.

benjaminh · March 2020

1971

ab348 · March 2020

uplanderguy said:

I tend to obsess on some of the small details of cars negatively ("Oh really?" you say?)--liking a certain car only if certain options were, or were not, included--but I never understood the optional side moldings on '72 big Fords. They were below those fender "brows", which seemed to me would've taken a door ding instead of being stopped by the molding.

I get what you're saying, but those brows don't seem to be perfectly horizontal, and they are a bit high on the body. Probably best to not order the moldings anyway.

uplanderguy · March 2020

Thanks for the pic. I almost-always think a car looks better without optional moldings down the middle of the side, but of course I realize why most people wanted them.

I think the manufacturers (GM, at least, in the early '70's) realized the cars looked better without them, too--almost always, brochure photos showed the cars without them, even if loaded up with other options. An example I always remember most is the '72 Buick brochure--pics of Electras without side moldings. I don't think I ever saw a real one that way.

xwesx · March 2020

roadburner said:

My first time driving a manual was when I had a summer job with the State Highway Department; the foreman told me to drive a pickup back to the garage and I wasn't about to admit I'd never driven a manual before. By the end of my tenure there I was driving-against ALL the rules of course-dump trucks, graders, rollers and water tankers.
Good times.

My start with manuals wasn't too much different... I started with an old International tractor (not sure what year, I think early 60s). That thing was such a challenge to use, no other manual transmission has ever been a challenge since then. I think I was around ten years old the first time I used it, and I used it regularly from mowing to dirtwork, demo, whatever; I loved that thing! By the time I had a license, I had many dozens of hours in my dad's pickup, old dump trucks, grain trucks, whatever.

I never had much opportunity to use heavy equipment, though. I do enjoy it - those are the fastest work hours ever! Even when it is hot outside and you feel miserable, the time just zips by.

xwesx · March 2020

omarman said:
My pick for 1971 is the E-200 with aftermarket camper conversion.

Heck, ya. That's a GREAT pick! I still haven't managed to let mine go (even though it is not a camper conversion)....

xwesx · March 2020

For 1971, aside from an Econoline, I would have to go with a Dodge charger R/T. My "step-dad" (for a time) had one of these in dark green when he married my mother. Even though I really can't stand my memories of the guy, I was always quite fond of the car.

stickguy · March 2020

I would like a 71 Z28. RS split bumper, front and rear spoilers. Some sort of mags.

kyfdx · March 2020

If we are going that direction, I'll take a Formula 400.

uplanderguy · March 2020

Othan than fin's 6.3, I think the Monte Carlo SS454, with the only badging being down in the rocker moldings, is the biggest sleeper of them all!

I definitely remember that brochure, and that two-page pic of that navy blue SS just popped off the page.

andre1969 · March 2020

'71? I'd go with a big'un, like an Electra, LeSabre, Centurion. Or maybe a Marquis. The fuselage Mopars don't really excite me for the most part, but if forced to pick, I tend to prefer the Dodges. They look less chunky.

With midsized cars, the GM's are definitely the sexiest, in my opinion. My only beef is that I find them cramped for legroom. I guess a power seat might help that somewhat, though. I actually have the same issue with the '73-77 Colonades...I don't find the legroom particularly generous. Fortunately, my '76 LeMans has a power seat, which helps a lot. I do kinda like the '71 Torino, too. I don't care for the style of the Mopar intermediates, but would probably go for a Charger as my top pick there.

With compacts, I'd go with a Dart or Valiant Scamp hardtop.

uplanderguy · March 2020

Not time to close 1971 out yet, but I guess the next year would be 1961, which might be going back a little far for everybody.

ab348 · March 2020

Funny thing about legroom on the GM A-bodies - they could easily have made much more legroom if they wanted. If you look under the hood of something like my Cutlass, there is lots of space where the firewall could have been formed differently to provide a few inches more front legroom. Might have required some alterations to the shape of the dash I suppose, but I don't know for sure. I don't think space efficiency was a big deal for GM in the '60s and early '70s. The Colonnade cars were bigger outside than mine and had even worse space utilization.

benjaminh · March 2020

For 61 might go with....

uplanderguy · March 2020

That is as good a specimen of a '61 Hawk as I've ever seen, beautiful.

For a long time I didn't like the '61's, as I thought the fins were passe and such. But then I thought..."What two-door post for '61 looks better?". Even with the fins, it still looks long, low and lean I think.

First year for bucket seats and available 4-speed in a Hawk.

Sales were down to 3,900-something. The next year's Gran Turismo model bumped sales up to 9,335. The only year fewer were sold was the truncated 1964 model year.

I know people who say the '61 Hawk is their favorite.

It would have a large clock, same size as speedo and tach, just to the left of the glovebox.

Nice house too.

andre1969 · March 2020

I don't know how true this is, but in the past I've heard that the auto makers tried to design their cars around an "average" male driver of around 5'10" or so, and maybe 180 pounds. So no matter how big the cars were, they seemed to still be designed around that. So, it wasn't always a guarantee that a bigger car would have more legroom.

I think that might be one reason why I tend to prefer Mopars...it seemed like they were designed with a bit more legroom, up front at least. Even with my '57 DeSoto, legroom is actually pretty good. It's still not that comfortable overall though, because the seat is low, the steering wheel is close, and there's not much clearance between the top of my head and the headliner. But, with later cars, my '68 Dart actually had more legroom up front than my '67 Catalina!

Back when I delivered pizzas, one of my co-workers actually tried using a '72 Catalina hardtop coupe to make deliveries...that didn't last long! The gas bill was probably killing him! When he wanted to sell it, I sat in it, to see what it felt like. It wasn't exactly generous in front legroom either, and seemed a bit less than the Dart.

I forget how much he originally wanted for it, but it was more than I was willing to pay. So, he ended up letting it go for, get this, eight ecstasy pills.

I told him hell, I would've given you $200 for it! (which was about the street value of that "transaction".) He shot back with well you said you weren't interested, and I said well yeah, but at $200 I would have been!

In retrospect though, probably best that I didn't. It would have just been another old beater that I didn't really need. It actually wasn't in horrible shape, but still wouldn't have been a wise choice, at the time.

texases · March 2020

andre1969 said:
I don't know how true this is, but in the past I've heard that the auto makers tried to design their cars around an "average" male driver of around 5'10" or so, and maybe 180 pounds. So no matter how big the cars were, they seemed to still be designed around that. So, it wasn't always a guarantee that a bigger car would have more legroom.

The same applies to headroom, if not more so. I need lots, and have been consistently surprised by the 'large' cars that don't fit (like the original Infiniti Q45), and the 'small' cars that do, like the GTI and the 1st gen Tercel. Biggest surprise? Maybe a 2010 or so Silverado with a sunroof, I didn't fit...

uplanderguy · March 2020

RE.: Space utilization in GM midsizes in the '60's and '70's--we had a '67 Chevelle. The wheelbase then was 115 no matter two-door or four. In '68 the midsize two-doors shrunk to 112 while the four-doors went up to 116, but the cars seemed narrower to me, unscientifically.

I have short legs (26" believe it or not), but I remember the first time I got into the back seat of my sister and brother-in-law's 1969 Chevelle Malibu Sport Coupe. I almost couldn't believe it, it was so tight back there.

I also remember going to see the new '68's on introduction date with my Dad. I remember saying about a Chevelle sedan, "That looks smaller than ours".

But of course, the '68-72's sold very well across the divisions, so what do I know? LOL

They advertised, at least at Chevy, that the '73 Chevelle was roomier and had a bigger trunk than the '72, but I'd say the increases in those things weren't proportionate to the increase in size and heft!

uplanderguy · March 2020

Here's the '61 I'd buy--although I hate how the radio pushbuttons spell out "CHEVY". That's a Chevrolet!!! That was changed for '62. Love the Honduras Maroon, and first use of narrow whitewalls on a Chevy, only the SS that year. At $50K, even five years ago, for an SS with 409, seemed like a decent price.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1961-CHEVROLET-IMPALA-SS-409-BUBBLE-TOP-185502

Second choice, but in a medium metallic blue:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/1961_Ford_Starliner.jpg

I tried to just focus on not the address of the whole website but just the pic, but I'd get nothing written here but just get a short line ending in 'jpg'. So much easier on Facebook to click on the pic, then click on "Options", email it to myself, then post it here. I try that on website pics and absolutely nothing happens.

Third choice would probably be a '61 Ford unibody pickup or '61 Studebaker Champ with Deluxe cab and long spaceside bed.

kyfdx · March 2020

benjaminh · March 2020

I also really like the looks of the 1961 Thunderbird.

That 61 Hawk was a garage-barn find of some kind, and only has c. 12k miles. Here's the listing and a few more pix....

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/studebaker/hawk/2372252.html#&gid=1&pid=9

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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