Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy · August 2020

just make sure she does not mind driving it. Could be an issue with a barge 1/2 ton piloting around town and to the station. So that means you never see the Volvo again!

cdnpinhead · August 2020

stickguy said:
Cars of all types really have porked up in recent years.

Not just recent years -- it goes back decades.

fintail · August 2020

I think my E wagon is something like 1300-1400 lbs heavier than the fintail. Of course, it has around 3x the hp.

nyccarguy · August 2020

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
sounds like a pickup is the right answer for you. If not a Ridgeline, maybe a Colorado? A Silverado (keeping in the GM fold) is just too much of a barge.

You got the Volvo for going places without taking tons of stuff, and the truck for heavy duty hauling (and perfectly capable of carrying all 4 of you).
A pickup is definitely in the running, not sure yet which one.

The Enclave goes in next week to get the door fixed and I have every intention riding it out to December Wife told me she really doesn't care what it gets replaced with as long as it's big enough to hold all the stuff we need.

Sounds like a blessing to go out and get yourself a pickup to me;)

ronsteve · August 2020

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:
A SAABlazer. Actually not bad looking. Miles and price don’t seem terrible. Interesting spare/beater/dog transport wheels option.

https://www.royaleasing.com/details-2007-saab-9~7x-awd_4dr_i6-used-5s3et13s472804374.html
Drive one and you'll change your opinion. It is awful.

You think you hate it now, just wait til you drive it!

ab348 · August 2020

tjc78 said:

A pickup is definitely in the running, not sure yet which one.

I am not a Honda guy but I do find the Ridgeline somewhat appealing although the styling is bland, although not offensive like the 1st-gen was. I find it hard to understand why smaller unibody pickups seem to be generally non-existent given the way most regular pickups get used as go to the mall-type vehicles and seldom for carrying heavy loads unless they are used in a commercial setting.

oldfarmer50 · August 2020

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
sounds like a pickup is the right answer for you. If not a Ridgeline, maybe a Colorado? A Silverado (keeping in the GM fold) is just too much of a barge.

You got the Volvo for going places without taking tons of stuff, and the truck for heavy duty hauling (and perfectly capable of carrying all 4 of you).
A pickup is definitely in the running, not sure yet which one.

The Enclave goes in next week to get the door fixed and I have every intention riding it out to December Wife told me she really doesn't care what it gets replaced with as long as it's big enough to hold all the stuff we need.

You could come home with a Rolls Royce....that’ll learn her to be an enabler.😎

graphicguy · August 2020

benjaminh said:
The TLX still seems like it's a good value compared to most competitors—except for the one that they've left out, the Tesla Model 3.

They were careful not to make this comparison....

Accord Touring 2.0T with more equipment and features

$36,400

You can even get a hybrid at the same price.

stickguy · August 2020

That chart showed why I wasn’t going to get a new one. It’s the longest, lowest and widest. I don’t want a barge, and it’s already a tight squeeze getting the RDX in the garage since it barely fits (To the mirror tips). I want a skinnier, shorter car!

stickguy · August 2020

graphicguy said:

benjaminh said:
The TLX still seems like it's a good value compared to most competitors—except for the one that they've left out, the Tesla Model 3.

They were careful not to make this comparison....

Accord Touring 2.0T with more equipment and features

$36,400

You can even get a hybrid at the same price.

If I was going with another Honda/Acura family product, would look at the accord instead if staying big, but more likely, consider a civic again and save $$, getting a car the size I prefer.

qbrozen · August 2020

my motorcycle is on a truck as of last night. So I expect it will arrive maybe Wed-Thurs next week.

benjaminh · August 2020

graphicguy said:

They were careful not to make this comparison....

Accord Touring 2.0T with more equipment and features

$36,400

You can even get a hybrid at the same price.

Yeah. If you can live without SH-AWD the Accord Touring is a good value. Same engine and transmission as the new TLX, but $5,000 less than a 2021 TLX Tech with FWD. Plus the Accord has almost limo-like rear seat leg room of 40.5 inches—about 5" more than the new TLX. For long trips that makes a difference.

But the interiors of Acuras really are better than the interiors of Hondas. I noticed that going immediately from test driving a 2018 Accord EXL hybrid to my 2018 TLX. The handles, switchgear, leather, etc. are just better/upgraded everywhere. And the mechanical stuff beyond the engine and transmission are upgraded too, with better brakes, tires, battery, etc. Plus the sound system in an Acura Tech and up is beyond anything you get in a Honda.

This guy Raiti really likes the Accord Touring 2.0T. I think it's possible to get 3k off the sticker of these too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilh3bM8wYiI&t=1030s

kyfdx · August 2020

I think you could get a pretty good lease on a V60 Polestar, right now, relative to MSRP.

Unfortunately, MSRP is about $70K.

tjc78 · August 2020

nyccarguy said:

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
sounds like a pickup is the right answer for you. If not a Ridgeline, maybe a Colorado? A Silverado (keeping in the GM fold) is just too much of a barge.

You got the Volvo for going places without taking tons of stuff, and the truck for heavy duty hauling (and perfectly capable of carrying all 4 of you).
A pickup is definitely in the running, not sure yet which one.

The Enclave goes in next week to get the door fixed and I have every intention riding it out to December Wife told me she really doesn't care what it gets replaced with as long as it's big enough to hold all the stuff we need.
Sounds like a blessing to go out and get yourself a pickup to me;)

Sure is! But as @stickguy mentioned I need to make sure she likes driving it.

She loved the Tahoe I used to bring home from the office so I’m thinking she will like it.

Whatever I buy will be full size. I am also leaning toward an XC90 but they get stupid expensive, don’t lease that great and pretty much the same thing as the sedans but in SUV form. It would be like having two of the same which isn’t my style!

breld · August 2020

kyfdx said:
I think you could get a pretty good lease on a V60 Polestar, right now, relative to MSRP.

Unfortunately, MSRP is about $70K.

Out of curiosity, why do you say that?

And...good luck finding one to lease. Last I looked there was like one in the country.

breld · August 2020

I personally can’t wait to see the new TLX in the flesh. I really like the design.

Hopefully, Acura is simply positioning the TLX for the addition of their new compact. First step was consolidating the TSX and TL into the 1st gen TLX as a tweener size, and now they’ll improve upon that and add the “real” compact. Sort of like what Caddy did with the CTS and then bringing in the well respected ATS.

oldfarmer50 · August 2020

tjc78 said:

nyccarguy said:

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
sounds like a pickup is the right answer for you. If not a Ridgeline, maybe a Colorado? A Silverado (keeping in the GM fold) is just too much of a barge.

You got the Volvo for going places without taking tons of stuff, and the truck for heavy duty hauling (and perfectly capable of carrying all 4 of you).
A pickup is definitely in the running, not sure yet which one.

The Enclave goes in next week to get the door fixed and I have every intention riding it out to December Wife told me she really doesn't care what it gets replaced with as long as it's big enough to hold all the stuff we need.
Sounds like a blessing to go out and get yourself a pickup to me;)
Sure is! But as @stickguy mentioned I need to make sure she likes driving it.

She loved the Tahoe I used to bring home from the office so I’m thinking she will like it.

Whatever I buy will be full size. I am also leaning toward an XC90 but they get stupid expensive, don’t lease that great and pretty much the same thing as the sedans but in SUV form. It would be like having two of the same which isn’t my style!

Cars that don’t lease well usually have steep depreciation so why not let somebody else take the hit and buy an off lease XC90?

17’s and 18’s list for mid to upper $30s in my area. Is that a good price?

breld · August 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

tjc78 said:

nyccarguy said:

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
sounds like a pickup is the right answer for you. If not a Ridgeline, maybe a Colorado? A Silverado (keeping in the GM fold) is just too much of a barge.

You got the Volvo for going places without taking tons of stuff, and the truck for heavy duty hauling (and perfectly capable of carrying all 4 of you).
A pickup is definitely in the running, not sure yet which one.

The Enclave goes in next week to get the door fixed and I have every intention riding it out to December Wife told me she really doesn't care what it gets replaced with as long as it's big enough to hold all the stuff we need.
Sounds like a blessing to go out and get yourself a pickup to me;)
Sure is! But as @stickguy mentioned I need to make sure she likes driving it.

She loved the Tahoe I used to bring home from the office so I’m thinking she will like it.

Whatever I buy will be full size. I am also leaning toward an XC90 but they get stupid expensive, don’t lease that great and pretty much the same thing as the sedans but in SUV form. It would be like having two of the same which isn’t my style!

Cars that don’t lease well usually have steep depreciation so why not let somebody else take the hit and buy an off lease XC90?

Agreed. Among the European competitors, the XC90 definitely seems like a great used value. And what’s nice about the Volvo is you don’t have to look hard to find one with all the safety features, as pretty much all of them are standard.

breld · August 2020

But also, FWIW, I received an email from my Volvo dealer last week that advertised $11k off all in stock XC90’s (plus another $2k for loyalty).

So while they can sticker for every bit as much as the rest of them, significant discounts can be had. The V90 is a bit different of course, but mine was around $19k off one year ago.

stickguy · August 2020

A Tahoe is a barge. I guess if she liked that, a Silverado might not seem so bad!

graphicguy · August 2020

breld said:
I personally can’t wait to see the new TLX in the flesh. I really like the design.

Hopefully, Acura is simply positioning the TLX for the addition of their new compact. First step was consolidating the TSX and TL into the 1st gen TLX as a tweener size, and now they’ll improve upon that and add the “real” compact. Sort of like what Caddy did with the CTS and then bringing in the well respected ATS.

That makes sense. I want to see the new one, and test drive it, too. Still, I get the vibe that they're trying to bridge the price gap between the now defunct RLX and the new TLX. Whether the public makes that connection is an entirely different question.

We'll see. Is the new 2021 TLX head and shoulders better than the old one to justify a $x,xxx price increase? Is it that much better than the Accord (I do agree that the Acura interior is much better)?

Low $50K for the S-Type, and probably mid $50K for an S-Type optioned up, puts it in some really stiff competition.

I'm feeling better and better about what I paid for my Stinger for what I got.

tjc78 · August 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

tjc78 said:

nyccarguy said:

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
sounds like a pickup is the right answer for you. If not a Ridgeline, maybe a Colorado? A Silverado (keeping in the GM fold) is just too much of a barge.

You got the Volvo for going places without taking tons of stuff, and the truck for heavy duty hauling (and perfectly capable of carrying all 4 of you).
A pickup is definitely in the running, not sure yet which one.

The Enclave goes in next week to get the door fixed and I have every intention riding it out to December Wife told me she really doesn't care what it gets replaced with as long as it's big enough to hold all the stuff we need.
Sounds like a blessing to go out and get yourself a pickup to me;)
Sure is! But as @stickguy mentioned I need to make sure she likes driving it.

She loved the Tahoe I used to bring home from the office so I’m thinking she will like it.

Whatever I buy will be full size. I am also leaning toward an XC90 but they get stupid expensive, don’t lease that great and pretty much the same thing as the sedans but in SUV form. It would be like having two of the same which isn’t my style!

Cars that don’t lease well usually have steep depreciation so why not let somebody else take the hit and buy an off lease XC90?

17’s and 18’s list for mid to upper $30s in my area. Is that a good price?

I don't want to own anything. My cars are like a bad football offense.... 3 and out.

I have zero desire for anything other than routine maintenance preferably paid by the manufacturer. I know I spend more money in the long run, but really just prefer leasing.

Depending on original MSRP I guess upper 30s seems fair for what was probably a 60K SUV.

stickguy · August 2020

Well, I can say that the difference going from a CRV to an RDX is significant. So I’m guessing the same will be the case with the new TLX.

tjc78 · August 2020

stickguy said:
A Tahoe is a barge. I guess if she liked that, a Silverado might not seem so bad!

If I'm grabbing the right specs a Crew Cab short bed is about 2' longer than a Tahoe and 2'5" longer than the Enclave. Big trucks.

kyfdx · August 2020

breld said:

kyfdx said:
I think you could get a pretty good lease on a V60 Polestar, right now, relative to MSRP.

Unfortunately, MSRP is about $70K.
Out of curiosity, why do you say that?

And...good luck finding one to lease. Last I looked there was like one in the country.

Just an observation from the lease numbers

benjaminh · August 2020

The size of the new TLX is a bit big for me, but the handling, braking, and luxury are likely to be significantly beyond an Accord Touring. There's the double wishbone suspension, the NSX brakes, a new steering system, a new and better SH-AWD system, etc. Plus the interior looks really good, even if the rear seat space is not quite what you might expect for a car this large. But the two front seats look really luxurious and really roomy. To me personally the new TLX is almost a little bit like a contemporary 4-door version of the original 1966 Olds Toronado, with expressive styling and luxury, but still room for 4 when needed.

stickguy · August 2020

Maybe I should just get a Mazda 3 with a stick instead!

benjaminh · August 2020

I'm not sure you can find any new Mazda 3s with a stick in the real world. My local dealer has almost 50 Mazda 3s and they are all autos. In any case, the reviews of the new Mazda 3 have been mixed. Big step down from a TLX A-spec imho.

(And although it's none of my beeswax I'm worried about what your spouse is going to say when you start car shopping right after telling her that you don't need your current car and are getting rid of it. A conversation like that with my wife probably would not be super easy. In fact, I was just telling her how much I liked and still wanted my car after we took a recent trip together in it. But if anyone is up to the challenge it's you. )

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mazda/mazda3/2020/2020-mazda3-pros-and-cons-review/

"And although its styling was well received by the judges, the Mazda3's driving experience was not. The defanged powertrain and the changes in the suspension caused the car to feel weaker than the previous model, taking away part of the fun the 3 was known for.

"The Mazda3s used to be fun to drive, and these new ones aren't," international bureau chief Angus MacKenzie said. "The basic goodness is still there in the chassis despite the cost-cutting switch to a torsion-beam rear axle, but the lethargic powertrains mean you can't exploit it. These 3s are slow, dull, and one-dimensional."

benjaminh · August 2020

My next dream car might be a Model 3, but I'm probably going to give Tesla another c. 3-6 years to work out the quality control issues and improve the batteries. By 2024 the Model 3 might have a range of 400 miles, rather than the 250 that's standard currently.

The trip I took with my wife on behalf of a family member just yesterday shows why my current car is better for me than a Tesla. We drove to Marion, IL, which is about 230 miles from where we live. Given that you really only get about 80-90% of the advertised range out of a Tesla, esp. on the highway, a standard Model 3 wouldn't have been a good bet for that. Plus as of now there's no Tesla charging station in that small city, and so you'd be out of luck for getting back too. But I'm almost sure that in the next few years that city, like maybe a hundred other medium and small cities, will get a Supercharging station. And then once the next generations of batteries increase the range of the standard Model 3 by something like 50% that's going to be a kind of trip that would work out in a Tesla

But for now I could make that 460-mile round trip with a full tank in the TLX and still have 100 miles of gas left.

pensfan83 · August 2020

If there wasn't a pandemic we definitely would have explored more options in the RDX's segment but in the end I think we would have still ended up in the same car. I kind of regret not at least looking at an XC60 but I don't think we would be where we are payment wise either.

breld · August 2020

stickguy said:
Maybe I should just get a Mazda 3 with a stick instead!

Getting a previous gen Mazda3 GT Hatch with the manual would be great for you, I would think.

Not necessarily the easiest thing to find, but they’re out there. Can’t remember the year, but for the last 2-3 model years of that gen, they facelifted it with some very nice upgrades to the interior.

Personally, I like the look of that hatch more than the current one (I do like the current sedan). And to @benjaminh’s point, I think that last gen is a bit more enthusiast oriented anyway.

I look back very fondly on the one I had.

breld · August 2020

Here’s a pretty one for you @stickguy.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/819698875/overview/

stickguy · August 2020

Well, I never said get a new one! And our 35th anniversary is next month, so at this point, I think she is used to me. Plus, she has her dream car already, that we will take places together, so as long as I don’t involve her in the process, she really won’t care what I do. All good, as long as I don’t get something she flat out won’t ride in, or couldn’t drive in a pinch..

stickguy · August 2020

breld said:
Here’s a pretty one for you @stickguy.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/819698875/overview/

You found a color combo I like. Yes, something like that would be nice. A bit pricy though. I do want a stick I think, but that does make it less desirable for the wife. I’m sure she can still fake it if need be, but then I have to worry about my clutch!

Probably a stick is better in a 2-fer. A much cheaper older fun car, and a better utility of some sort (like a small PU).

ab348 · August 2020

benjaminh said:

(And although it's none of my beeswax I'm worried about what your spouse is going to say when you start car shopping right after telling her that you don't need your current car and are getting rid of it. A conversation like that with my wife probably would not be super easy. In fact, I was just telling her how much I liked and still wanted my car after we took a recent trip together in it. But if anyone is up to the challenge it's you. )

I’m sure Mrs. Stickguy is quite used to it all by now. The women should probably be nominated for sainthood if the scheming she hears at home is anything like what we see here.

stickguy · August 2020

I talk a lot. I don’t think she listens to much of it.

But like I explained to her. The lease was ending eventually and the car going back. So really no difference if it happened now or next year. Still have same decisions to make. But at least for now, doing without a 2nd car is easy.

benjaminh · August 2020

The advantages of a Tesla are coming more and more into focus for me—great acceleration, futuristic and yet elegant and minimalist design, impressive gas savings, lower maintenance costs, slower depreciation, less NVH, an engine that almost never wears out, etc.

In the next several years as the new generations of batteries come out I feel like it might even be the start of a slow (c. 20 year?) paradigm shift toward electric vehicles. I didn't think I'd live long enough to see that even begin, but maybe I will.

I thought the stock price for Tesla was crazy, and maybe it is a little crazy right now, but if Tesla has started to crack the formula for the future of transportation then in the long run they will do very well. Tesla's biggest challenge, in fact, might be how to build factories fast enough to keep up with demand.

roadburner · August 2020

breld said:

stickguy said:
Maybe I should just get a Mazda 3 with a stick instead!
Getting a previous gen Mazda3 GT Hatch with the manual would be great for you, I would think.

Not necessarily the easiest thing to find, but they’re out there. Can’t remember the year, but for the last 2-3 model years of that gen, they facelifted it with some very nice upgrades to the interior.

Personally, I like the look of that hatch more than the current one (I do like the current sedan). And to @benjaminh’s point, I think that last gen is a bit more enthusiast oriented anyway.

I look back very fondly on the one I had.

Mazda dropped the ball big time by dropping Mazdaspeed editions of the 3, 6, and Miata. I would definitely consider another MS3.

oldfarmer50 · August 2020

benjaminh said:
The advantages of a Tesla are coming more and more into focus for me—great acceleration, futuristic and yet elegant and minimalist design, impressive gas savings, lower maintenance costs, slower depreciation, less NVH, an engine that almost never wears out, etc.

In the next several years as the new generations of batteries come out I feel like it might even be the start of a slow (c. 20 year?) paradigm shift toward electric vehicles. I didn't think I'd live long enough to see that even begin, but maybe I will.

I thought the stock price for Tesla was crazy, and maybe it is a little crazy right now, but if Tesla has started to crack the formula for the future of transportation then in the long run they will do very well. Tesla's biggest challenge, in fact, might be how to build factories fast enough to keep up with demand.

I think Tesla’s and all electric car makers biggest challenge will be the availability of the rare elements required to make the battery that aren’t in the hands of the Chinese or other unfriendly powers. For ICE we have all the domestic fuel we’ll need for the foreseeable future but what happens if some geopolitical dispute causes a lack of batteries?

Then there’s the problem of disposal/recycling toxic battery effluent.

xwesx · August 2020

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
A Tahoe is a barge. I guess if she liked that, a Silverado might not seem so bad!
If I'm grabbing the right specs a Crew Cab short bed is about 2' longer than a Tahoe and 2'5" longer than the Enclave. Big trucks.

1/2 ton pickups are extremely driveable these days. They are just big cars.

tifighter · August 2020

Relevant points, and things that the industry are more than aware of. If you want to get granular, Tesla's annual impact report discusses battery recycling, cobalt and lots more-
https://tesla.com/ns_videos/2019-tesla-impact-report.pdf. And let's not pretend that ICE is a free lunch, either.

Separate question - has anyone in this group, aside from me, driven a Model 3 yet? I see it comes up a lot, but I'm wondering who has given one a go.

tjc78 · August 2020

xwesx said:

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:
A Tahoe is a barge. I guess if she liked that, a Silverado might not seem so bad!
If I'm grabbing the right specs a Crew Cab short bed is about 2' longer than a Tahoe and 2'5" longer than the Enclave. Big trucks.
1/2 ton pickups are extremely driveable these days. They are just big cars.

Agreed! They are just longer than many of the larger SUVs.

I think for our current lifestyle a pickup is really the way to go. It would be nice to just hose out the bed after a day at the beach rather than having to deal with vacuuming the back of the SUV. We rarely carry more than 5 so having a third row is pretty much useless. It is usually down for more cargo room.

xwesx · August 2020

tifighter said:
Relevant points, and things that the industry are more than aware of. If you want to get granular, Tesla's annual impact report discusses battery recycling, cobalt and lots more-
https://tesla.com/ns_videos/2019-tesla-impact-report.pdf. And let's not pretend that ICE is a free lunch, either.

Separate question - has anyone in this group, aside from me, driven a Model 3 yet? I see it comes up a lot, but I'm wondering who has given one a go.

I'm about 2,200 miles from the nearest opportunity, but I will give it a go when the accessibility is there.

I wonder what happened to our other poster in Colorado with the Model 3? I cannot recall his handle, but he stopped posting not too longer after the acquisition.

tifighter · August 2020

Wes - Well, if you're in Seattle, you can try mine. But I'll put it in chill mode first; might be scary coming from a Forester.

Signed,
One time Forester driver.

Michaell · August 2020

@jpp75 has a cousin whose wife has a Model 3. I think he's had occasion to drive it from time to time.

And, Mrs @breld has tested a Model 3, as well. I'll let him convey her thoughts on the experience.

stickguy · August 2020

T,you can easily put 4, maybe 5, across in the back seat of a PU. especially if they are mostly kids!

the length does not bother me as much as being overly wide, and I really hate the huge, high front ends on them. Just too much stress driving around normally especially in traffic and tighter areas like side streets and parking lots.

and I have a lot of seat time (1,000+ miles) driving 28" box diesel Ryder trucks (internationals and Freightliners) so I know about driving big.

ab348 · August 2020

stickguy said:

the length does not bother me as much as being overly wide, and I really hate the huge, high front ends on them. Just too much stress driving around normally especially in traffic and tighter areas like side streets and parking lots.

Aside from the height they are about the same length and width as a mid-70s luxo-barge like a Cadillac or a Lincoln.

explorerx4 · August 2020

My pickup had all around camera's and active park assist.

stickguy · August 2020

ab348 said:

stickguy said:

the length does not bother me as much as being overly wide, and I really hate the huge, high front ends on them. Just too much stress driving around normally especially in traffic and tighter areas like side streets and parking lots.
Aside from the height they are about the same length and width as a mid-70s luxo-barge like a Cadillac or a Lincoln.

so, I see you are on my side here!

breld · August 2020

Yeah, my wife test drove a Model 3 a couple years back, just before the federal incentive expired.

It was a stressful time - this was when she thought she needed to get out of her Macan to appease her son who was screaming a lot in the SUV. She really liked the drive of the Tesla, but she was extremely put off by the experience at the Tesla store. I think she would have bought one if not for how she was treated.

There’s still a $4,000 tax incentive in Colorado - makes the cost of a Model 3 very reasonable. Seems they’ve lowered the price to offset most of the loss of the federal incentive.

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