Lease Questions - Ask Here

ddelise · May 2005

In NJ, the sales tax is computed this way:
(Net Cap Cost - Residual)*6%.

So, if you agree upon $28,000 to buy the car, then add in the $700 acquisition fee + $100 doc fee + $600 state fees and subtract $3500 in rebate, then the net cap cost is $28000+$700+100+$600-$3500 = $25,900.

If the residual is $16,000, then the tax is (25,900-16000)*6 = $594.

This is then added into the lease.

Damon

ctv · May 2005

Hi there,
Thanks so much for offering such a wonderful resource. Quick question...I'm looking into a 2005 Saab 9-3 Linear lease. I'm interested in the base car plus an automatic - MSRP $28920. The dealer is using all of the currently available incentives equaling $3500 off MSRP for a lease based on $25420. I've been quoted $319 per month for a zero down (only upfronts) 36 month lease with 12K miles per year. Just wondering if this is the best lease deal I can get during the month of May. I appreciate your assistance...keep up the great work.

ct1211 · May 2005

Car_Man If I order a car say a 2005 330i coupe from BMW does the dealer allow you to lock in the residual and MF? if so if it drops again before you get the car can you take the lower rates?? Hmm

Thanks for your help!!

Craig

msdavis · May 2005

Dear car guy, I need some help. I am intrested in a new Jetta 2.5l, audi a4 2.0t fronttrack, or a vw passat gls. Could you please help me. The information I need is vw credit rates and residuals for 24 or 36 months or any term in between 15,000 per year. Also what is vw credit's policy about buying more miles up front I leased a nissan and paid .10 per mile up front not .15 after the lease. Thanks for your help.

newbie12 · May 2005

Hi guys. Great group you have here. This is my first time here since I am embarking on my first new car buying experience. I'm sure this question has been asked a million times and I have read every post about this but I am gonna seek an aswer from you(Maybe just for peace of mind).. I am currently looking to lease a car. I am currently employed with a great company for 7 months and make almost 60K a year. When I was young in college(Freshman/soph) I was very stupid w/ credit cards. Now that I am looking to lease a car I am a bit nervous/unsure. I want to lease a car for 48 months and my parents already said they will co-sign. But will this still get me a loan for a car? My FICO was around a 610 but should be rising since I just paid another 1K to the CC companies and leaving my total around 5K(From almost 8K). I have been paying al my bills on time for at least 6 months and have been giving either $100-$200 to my cards.(min ranging from 10.00 to 70.00).

So what I am getting at is do you think I will have any problems getting approved for a lease w/ my parents(excellent credit) cosigning??

Thanks in Advance...

carbert · May 2005

Car_man,

In case you missed my previous message, I'm looking for the current mf and residual for a 3 year (10,000 miles per year) lease on a Volvo S40 T5.

Thanks.

mgrcm · May 2005

Hello everyone....

I'll try to make this short. Basically we buy and trade-in every couple of years. The Audi Dealership were buying the car from thinks we're wasting our money and they are trying to talk us into leasing rather than buying.

We're trading in a 03 Highlander with 36,000 miles(we owe nothing on the Toyota) and have owned it 2 years. So the buying deal is this...

Audi A4 05.5 MSRP 35,045
03 Toyota Highlander - 22,400

Trade difference 12,645

So add in title, process fee and MA. 5% sales tax comes to 13,591, and we would put down 5,591 and finance 8,000 with a loan rate at 3.89% for 36 month's, which would give us a monthly payment of 236.00.

And here's one of the lease deals they are proposing...

They call it a single payment lease and they take our Toyota at 22,400, and we get back 5,000 and have no payments for the 2 year lease at 18,000 miles per year with wear and tear coverage. There way of thinking is we keep the 5,591 in our bank they give us 5,000 so that's 10,591 and figure in the 8,000 plus interest we were going to finance for a couple years we would have more money in our pockets and according to them the smarter way to go.

My question is are they really doing us a favor with this lease plan versus buying the car?

Thanks Rick

johnnyb_m · May 2005

Carman,

Looking at a 2005 Escalade ESV Platinum. Sticker is $72,020 (Platinum w/White Diamond Option). Does this hold to the 3.6% money factor and the 49% residual for a three year lease with 15k miles per year?

I'm looking at a capitalized cost of $62,000 (or maybe a little less). (3k dealer incentive, 1k consumer incentive, 2.5k GM Card cash and bonus dollars; no hard dollar down payment). Can you confirm the lease numbers on these factors?

thanks
john

fusion · May 2005

Car Man,

What is the MF and RV for 2005 G35 Coupe 5AT? I visited a G35 dealer last night and they told me if I were to lease the G35, I can't get the 1.9% (for sedan only) the coupe would be at 3.9% and this is in Northern California (Sacramento). Is that true?

Thanks for your help.
Ken

munchmouth · May 2005

Rick,

Let me begin by saying that I'm no expert. Car_man or Dwayne will be your best bet for an accurate answer.

With just looking at the lease deal, my preliminary calculations (not sure of MF and RV) indicate that you are over paying by at least $3,000, possibly up to $7,000.

Why 18,000 miles? It doesn't look as if you need that many based on your previous mileage. This will affect your residual value and thereby your total payment.

Did you negotiate a price below MSRP? I think you can get any where from $1,000 to $3,000 off. You may want to start again at a different dealership. Negotiate the purchase price first, then the trade-in and then tell them you want a lease.

I'll bet that Car_man will suggest not paying anything up front on your lease. See his previous posts regarding this.

Good luck!

mgrcm · May 2005

munchmouth...

I just thru up the MSRP value of the buying deal. Invoice for the Audi is 32,705 and trade-in value for our 03 Highlander from Edmunds calculator is 20,900.If you look at this way I'm getting the Audi for 840 over invoice and trade-in value for the Highlander.It's the best I could do.

The 18,000 miles a year is what my wife usually drives.

My thinking already is that this single pay lease there offering is not a good idea.

I plugged everything into Edmunds Lease/Buy calculator on a standard 2 year lease with 18,000 miles versus buying the car at the 3 year buying deal and it said I would be better off buying the car.

conanc · May 2005

Hi,

We are new to leasing but since we require two vehicles and purchased a new Toyota last year, we are looking at leasing because of the lower payments option. Problem is....like everyone else here we like the nicer cars.

Have mostly owned Toyotas and previously owned a Saab and loved it, but had some problems as it got older. I've been checking around and looking into leasing specials for some vehicles, but was wondering if anyone know of any good ones out there for Honda or Volkswagen, or entry level Saab, Volvo, etc? any advice for newbies?
Thanks!!

mgrcm · May 2005

I just got off the phone with the business manager at the Audi Dealership.Here's some information he has given me.At the moment thru Audi there MF is .00125 and residual is 67%.To drive this car 2 years with 18,000 miles it costs 17,252 thru the lease.The retail value there giving us for our trade is 22,400.So buy paying the lease up front with our trade we're getting back 5,148. This includes the 640.00 wear and tear coverage (not sure if this a good thing), sales tax on mothly payments,575.00 acquisition fee and 15 cents a mile for the high mileage.And of coarse we would have no payments for the 2 years.

I guess the big decision is to buy or lease,the lease does sound attractive though.

kyfdx · May 2005

$319/mo. for a $29K Saab is a great deal.. I doubt you can do better than that..

kyfdx · May 2005

If you make a deal this month, they will lock in the lease numbers until the end of July...

If your car can't be delivered by then, then all bets are off..

If you car arrives in July, you may use either the May numbers or the July numbers, whichever benefit you the most..

regards,
kyfdx

tsb · May 2005

Car_man:

I am looking for the money factor and residual for the vehicle listed in the message title. I am looking at a three year lease with 12000 miles per year. I am located in New Jersey. Thank you in advance for your help.

ikramerica · May 2005

well, how soon you want to lease? one way to improve credit score is to increase your credit available, so what you owe is a lower percentage of what you have. you can do this by paying down cards as well as adding a new card or asking for a credit increase, though if you have a history of defaults, that could be hard. on any new debt, get a fee free card and DON'T USE IT.

also, what kind of car you looking to lease? an econo car might be easier to get than a entry-luxury model with lower credit scores.

dwynne · May 2005

0.00215 and 61% for 36/36k was the last number I saw, but that is a month old.

Edit: I did a search and car_man posted 0.00199 and 60% for 36/36k for May.

The 1.9% is a finance rate, and has nothing to do with the lease rate. It is good on 04 and 05 sedans for up to 36 months, then 2.9% for up to 60 months.

They do offer the exact same rate on left over 2004 coupes, so if you should find one in stock then you can get this rate.

For 2005 coupes, I did not see any national cheap rates so your credit union or bank might have a better finance rate.

Dennis

dwynne · May 2005

It is not bad logic, if you get the numbers right.

There is probably no tax break on a lease for a trade in. So if you could sell you truck outright for more money then you should do so (if you decide to lease). So then you get the new car lease at a discounted price and have the extra money from the sale in your bank.

Even using their numbers, if you saved the monthly payment each month and the cash and the down payment at the end of two years you would have $19,087 in the bank plus any interest you earned on your money. Sell the truck your self and any extra money ($2k or more?) is in their too.

The question then becomes, what could you then expect to be able to get for that Audi in trade with 36k on it?

You don't list the model and options, so I had to guess - but the ALG residual for a 3.0 quattro A4 after 24/36k looks to be 58%. So 58% of your MSRP would be $20,326. The ALG residual is just a guess, the car could be worth or less and the end of the lease. The reason we like to lease is the BANK is taking the chance, not you.

Using the dealer's number and ALG estimate, you would be $1,239 better off if you purchased the car than if you lease it (less the interest you made). Since you might be inclined to trade the Audi in at the end of 2 years, you might not realize the full value - or Audi trade in values could take a tumble. Or, they could hold value better than expected and you could save more money. If you sell the truck yourself now for more money, then this may end up closer to break even or a "profit" compared to the lease.

Another thing to consider, if something happens you one of you health-wise or job-wise then you have the car taken care of with the lease AND have a nice size nest egg in the bank.

In addition to selling your truck before doing the lease, you could also do a normal nothing down lease and put ALL the money in the bank. Compare the single payment money factor VS the 24 month normal lease money factor and if you are not saving a lot of money, then hang onto yours and use Audis. At the end of the lease just turn it in and find another car or truck that interests you and good a good lease deal on it. Nothing is nicer than having NO TRADE when dealing for a new car

Dennis

mgrcm · May 2005

Thanks Dennis...

Your right...if we could sell our Highlander ourselves then negotiate the money off MSRP for the 05.5 Audi which is equiped as follows 2.0T Quatrro,Premium,Cold weather,Lighting pkg with Metallic paint it would be a better deal on the lease. With the lease deal I'm paying on MSRP for the Audi and there giving me 22,400 for our Highlander which is what Edmunds say's I would expect to get for it on a private sale.I'm picking up the car on Monday, so it's just a question now of whether to lease it or buy.

Thanks Rick

need2kno · May 2005

while hubby was obtaining new insur. ( had prob. w/ old co.) i got in a wreck. it was just after obtaining the insu. how would i go about filling my clim for this accident. also need answer ..it was raining and the light ahead was green, got right b4 light saw a car no lights on or nothing right in front of me just sitting there itried to brake and use ABS but plowed into the rear of this car... they pulled off and cops found them in lot up ahead.. am i 100% at fault because he did have working lights but didnt turn flashers on and admitted to cops he didnt. the guy claimed he was sitting there because just before me he was hit by someone else who drove off... in desperate need of answers.... is this gonna look fishy on a new policy that was purchased an hour give or take, b4 wreck ???? help me!! :mad:

:confuse:

mnwild18 · May 2005

Hello,
I am wanting to lease a 2005 Dodge 1500 Laramie 4X4. The MSRP is $39,250. The dealer price is $34,400 then take off another $7,500 in incentives to equal $26,900. The dealer quoted me for a 36 month 12,000/yr lease (which is plenty for me) at $325/month which includes MN tax at 6.5% ($306/month before tax). Total of $1000 down upfront. My question is this is the best deal I can be getting out there. I have excellent credit. He also told me the RV is 53% and the MF at .00267. I think the residual was at $19,200.

Thank you for your help,

Jeff

cadteach · May 2005

Jeff,

This is not apples to apples, but I just leased a 4.7L 1500 4x4 SLT, w/tow package and Big Horn group,and 24G package. Its MSRP was 34,400, the dealer price was around $29,800, after incentives it went on at $21,900. I did a one time lease payment of $3700 with nothing down, no trade in. Residual is $19,600 and it's for 24mo/24,000 miles. This was end of April.

I'm lovin it, although I'm wondering if I shouldn't have just bought it.

mmm123 · May 2005

Dealership is quoting me a 39 month 12k miles/year lease for a 2006 M35 base (w/ carpeted trunk mat). Window sticker MSRP is $40,590, net cap is $38,700. Residual is 63% and quoted money factor is .00220. Payment is $495.81 plus tax. I figured it up about $20 less than the dealer so someones math is a little off or theres some hidden fees I don't know about. Anyway, does this sound about right? I've seen people here saying the money factor should be closer to .00180.

Thanks in advance!
Mike

funchanteen · May 2005

Car_Man, I would love to see these numbers as well. I need to get an Odyssey this coming week and I want to know the specifics for an Odyssey EX as well. Thank you.

dwynne · May 2005

If you are going to buy, don't you get a trade in tax credit? In my state you do, and with the 7% tax rate trading in a $20,000 car would be like getting $21,400 for it in a private sale.

The 05.5 A4 may have a slightly higher future value as well, since the ALG number I used is for an "05" car.

Dennis

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hi vector6. The Volvo XC90 has been selling relatively well. As a result, while there is a little lease support available on it, there isn't much. You never mentioned the selling price or MSRP of the XC90 that you are interested in leasing. These are important number for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing this car's selling price in relation to its MSRP you don't know how much of a discount you are getting on it. The second reason is that one needs the selling price and MSRP, including the destination charge, of a vehicle to calculate its lease payment. I would be more than happy to work up a sample lease payment on the truck that you are interested in for you if you let me know what these numbers are.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hi ericdkauff1. I believe that I already responded to your post. Let me know if you can't find my answer and I will try to dig it up or answer your questions again.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Here you go, Gregg. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2005 Infiniti G35x through Infiniti Financial Services right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00205 and 61%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease should be .00203 and 60%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment on this car for you based upon the prices that you mentioned in your post, chinn. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Lexus ES 330 without navigation with an MSRP of $35,700 and a selling price of $32,900 through Lexus Financial Services right now for 4 years with 12,000 miles per, its zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $406.

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rroyce10 · May 2005

........ The trading part can kill you down the road .. it lowers your payment, only ... if the new Audi gets slammed or stolen the money evaporates ~ instantly ...

Keep the Yota and take it down Retail Rd .. put little or no money down on the lease .. 1st and security and maybe some tag fee's .. trading the Yota is like putting $450,000 down on a $500,000 home, small payments - yes ... but the property will appreciate and the Audi will depreciate .. keep in mind, leasing and renting are about the same ........... :shades:

Terry.

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Thanks for the compliments, nikinnicky. You're right, for the first time ever Mazda is providing special lease money factors on the RX-8 this month. The factor and residual value that you were quoted for this car are right on the money. When negotiating your lease on this car, keep in mind that Mazda is providing $1,000 lease cash on it. The incentive will help you to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost. The selling price of this car looks reasonable to me, but for more feedback on it from others who have recently purchased similar cars you may want to stop by the following discussion: "Mazda RX-8: Prices Paid & Buying Experience". I just worked up a sample 2 year, 12,000 miles per lease based upon a 2005 RX-8 with manual transmission, an MSRP of $27,395, and a selling price of $24,000 and I came up with a zero down, pre-tax payment of only around $370. So something about the quote that you were given is not right.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

You're not being annoying at all, vector6. We all come here to discuss leasing. Taking the cash incentives that are currently available on the 2005 XC90 if you don't lease it through Volvo FInance, you may indeed be able to negotiate a more attractive lease on this vehicle. For more specific feedback on XC90 pricing, stop by the following discussion: "Volvo XC90: Prices Paid & Buying Experience". If you end up purchasing this truck instead of leasing, Volvo is only providing $1,500 dealer cash on it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hi wasabi911. No you are not required to take the vehicle that you are leasing back to your Lexus dealer for service. It would probably be in your best interest to keep the receipts for any services that you have performed on your car at an independent mechanic or to keep the receipts for the oil for any changes that you do yourself. I highly doubt that you would ever be asked for them, but it never hurts to play it safe. You may not be able to get your local service shop to reset the "service engine soon" light on your vehicle's dash though.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hi hweaver. Toyota has a decent lease program on the 2005 4Runner right now, but it also has decent cash incentives and low finance rates on it. Neither of these options, leasing purchasing, or financing, is significantly more attractive than the other right now. As a result, whether you should lease or not all depends upon whether you want to lease or own your next vehicle. Since you don't seem to be familiar with how leases work, you definitely should check out the following informative articles that are available here at Edmunds.com prior to visiting any dealers: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

Even though the Honda Odyssey holds it value well, there is a good chance that you will lose a decent chunk of change by trading in your '04 Odyssey so soon. If I was in your situation, I personally would hold onto the Odyssey for a while longer.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Greetings biglib. I am sorry to say that I have not seen Ford's lease program for the 2006 Expedition. It may not have even published one yet. Ford Credit probably will not publish its lease program for this truck until it actually begins to arrive on dealer lots.

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hpowders · May 2005

Hi Car_Man. I need the money factors and residuals for:
1. 2005 BMW X5 4.4 36,000 miles, 36 months
2. 2006 BMW 330i 36,000 miles, 36 months
Thank you.
hpowders

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Chinn, Lexus Financial Services' current base lease money factor and residual value for a 4 year, 12,000 miles per lease of a 2005 ES 330 without navigation should be .00155 and 48%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

I sure can, carbert. According to the latest informaiton that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2005 Volvo S40 T5 through Volvo Finance right now for 3 years with 10,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00185 and 52%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

You're welcome, a6_to_m35. Here is the info that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2006 Infiniti M35 AWD through Infiniti Financial Services right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00210 and 62%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease of this car should be .00209 and 61%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

I'm with the Audi salesperson who you spoke with, munchmouth. Audi has not been providing a lot in the way of lease support on the redesigned A4 or A6 lately. Furthermore, banks' residual values are lower in general than they were when you leased your TT several years ago. Back then many banks were overestimating cars future values and they ended up getting bitten by it. I suspect that Audi will eventually have to cave in and enhance its expensive lease program on the A4 at some point. It's difficult to say exactly when that will happen though.

Infiniti's lease program is different on the G35 Coupe and Sedan. The Coupes always have less lease support available on them.

I think that you are referring to a sample lease payment that I worked up for another community member. Saab is advertising a lease on the 2005 9-3 Linear at $419 per month for 2 years with a $1,985 down payment though. You can see the details of its advertised lease payments by visiting the following site: Saab Advertised Lease Payments. I would be more than happy to work up a sample lease payment on any Saab that you are interested in for you if you provide me with its full MSRP and selling price.

For feedback on what sort of selling prices others are getting on the Lexus ES 330, stop by the following discussion: "Lexus ES 300/ES 330: Prices Paid & Buying Experience". Again, if you provide me with the MSRPs and selling prices of the cars that you are interested in, along with how long you want to lease them for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive them I can give you an idea of what sort of lease payment to expect.

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william11 · May 2005

CarMan,

Trust you are doing well.

How would you rate this leasing package from Audi? Here are the facts:

- Audi 2005.5 A4
- 2.0 liter Turbo 4 cylinder CVT
- Geography = South Florida
- MSRP per Edmunds = $32,600 (Premium package + others)
- Dealer "Best and Final" = MSRP
- Lease Term = 36 months
- Miles = 12k/annually
- Writing a Check at Closing = $2000
- Monthly $447.00 including tax
- Delivery = Week of 5/16/05

If I were to push harder on the deal, what buttons do I push?

All the best!

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

No problem, burgermac. BMW Financial Services' base lease acquisition fee is currently only $625 in every state but New York. If you are being charged any more than that the dealer that you are working with is padding BMW FS' base acquisition fee to try to hide additional profit in your deal. The $329 doc fee that you are being charged is nothing more than additional dealer profit as well. While most dealers charge some sort of doc fee on vehicles, some dealers' fees are higher than others. I always advise consumers to look at deals as a whole rather than letting dealers cloud the picture by tacking all sorts of little fees. Focus on the total selling price for the car that you want. If the total price that dealer that you are working with, including the $200 acquisition fee mark-up and $300 doc fee, is lower than you could get this car elsewhere don't worry about these charges. If not, then perhaps you should comparison shop or purchase this vehicle from a different dealer.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hi lmm. I am sorry to say that Mercedes-Benz is not currently providing any sort of incentives on the 2005 SL500. If you don't mind driving a coupe instead of a convertible, it did just introduce $5,000 dealer cash on the 2005 CL500 though.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hey mustangmike02. A selling price of dealer invoice minus any available incentives is a very good price for a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee right now. I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment on the truck that you are interested in for you, however in order for me to do so I need you to give me a more detailed description of it, i.e. is it a Grand Cherokee Limited 4WD, a Laredo 2WD, etc...

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Greetings apress. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2005 Nissan Pathfinder SE Offroad 4x4 through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00219 and 54%, respectively. If you were to lease a 2005 Toyota 4Runner Sport V6 4x4 through Toyota Financial Services in its New York region right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00171 and 61%. Even though the 4Runner's residual value looks much higher, unlike most banks Toyota Financial Services places caps on which options can be residualized and limits the amount of money that can be residualized for the ones that it allows. As a result, its residual values are not as attractive as they first seem.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hi namssa. I haven't seen many posts about Dodge Ram leases, so it is difficult for me to tell you if this deal is in line with what others are paying. If you are allowed to subtract any available incentives from the this truck's negotiated price of $33,166, then this seems like a reasonable deal to me. For more specific feedback on this truck's pricing, you may want to stop by the following discussion: "Dodge Ram: Prices Paid & Buying Experience". If you tell me the exact trim level of the Ram Pickup that you want, i.e. it is a 2005 Ram 1500 Regular Cab ST 4WD, a 1500 Quad Cab SLT 2WD, etc... I can calculate a sample lease payment on it based upon the prices that you mentioned and Chrysler Financial's actual lease program for you.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Here you go, 429. If you were to lease a 2005 Odyssey EX (cloth) through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00245 and 57%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hi jpmulin. Off of the top of my head, the best 4WD vehicles that I can think of near your price range are the 2005 Honda Pilot EX and the Subaru Impreza.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hi danf1. Technically, DaimlerChrysler is providing a little lease money factor support on the 2005 Dodge Magnum right now, but its lease program on it is nothing to write home about. Its exact money factors for this vehicle vary by trim level, but they are generally around .00230 for a 3 year lease. This is equivalent to an interest rate of around five and a half percent. DaimlerChrysler is providing a $1,000 bonus on '05 Magnum models leased through Chrysler Financial right now though.

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