Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

carnaught · August 2022

Speaking of phony I just got an email from a Nigerian Pres. (not a prince) congratulating me on helping him send out $15.5 million to me, I guess, cause I am a lucky guy. All I have to do is call him. The surprising thing is that I always check the address from the person who sends me these and it looks like a fairly legitimate email address. Hmm - decisions, decisions….🤪

Now I expect to hear from the IRS soon about the warrant they had issued to me.

snakeweasel · August 2022

bwia said:
I bit the bullet this morning and paid off my mortgage. To me, it just did not make economic sense to pay 3.75% interest on my mortgage while earning a paltry 0.10% on my savings.
What I found interesting, was how quickly I was able to do that. I made a phone call and in 15 minutes I was done. The customer service representative asked if there was anything else she could help me with. I said, "how about a gold watch." She laughed so I hard that I could hear her spitting out her coffee.

Then, I got a curious text from what purported to be an authentic communique from Citizens Bank, the holder of my savings account. The message read that my account was frozen and I needed to provide my email and password to verify my address and other pertinent information. I immediately called my bank and they said my account was not frozen and perhaps I almost fell into the trap of fraudsters who snatched me while on their phishing expedition.

How can we conduct internet business confidently when it is so easy to be defrauded, although I have antivirus protection?

Well if you liked that experience I know of another mortgage you can pay off.

jmonroe1 · August 2022

@carnaught said:
Speaking of phony I just got an email from a Nigerian Pres. (not a prince) congratulating me on helping him send out $15.5 million to me, I guess, cause I am a lucky guy. All I have to do is call him. The surprising thing is that I always check the address from the person who sends me these and it looks like a fairly legitimate email address. Hmm - decisions, decisions….🤪

Now I expect to hear from the IRS soon about the warrant they had issued to me.

————————————————
Don’t mess around. This is the one in a million chance you’ve been waiting for.

As for the IRS thing, with what you’re winning you can easily buy off an IRS agent. I know someone who bought them off for a lot less than you can afford to give them.

jmonroe

tjc78 · August 2022

@snakeweasel said:
Well if you liked that experience I know of another mortgage you can pay off.

And I have two more where that came from

explorerx4 · August 2022

Considering the inflation rate, a low fixed mortgage rate and rising savings rates, I would have gone in a different direction than paying off my mortgage.

oldfarmer50 · August 2022

bwia said:
I bit the bullet this morning and paid off my mortgage. To me, it just did not make economic sense to pay 3.75% interest on my mortgage while earning a paltry 0.10% on my savings.
What I found interesting, was how quickly I was able to do that. I made a phone call and in 15 minutes I was done. The customer service representative asked if there was anything else she could help me with. I said, "how about a gold watch." She laughed so I hard that I could hear her spitting out her coffee.

Then, I got a curious text from what purported to be an authentic communique from Citizens Bank, the holder of my savings account. The message read that my account was frozen and I needed to provide my email and password to verify my address and other pertinent information. I immediately called my bank and they said my account was not frozen and perhaps I almost fell into the trap of fraudsters who snatched me while on their phishing expedition.

How can we conduct internet business confidently when it is so easy to be defrauded, although I have antivirus protection?

I’d be more interested in the coincidence between your mortgage transaction and the phishing scheme. Could someone from your bank be feeding the fraudsters information on your banking activity?

oldfarmer50 · August 2022

carnaught said:
Speaking of phony I just got an email from a Nigerian Pres. (not a prince) congratulating me on helping him send out $15.5 million to me, I guess, cause I am a lucky guy. All I have to do is call him. The surprising thing is that I always check the address from the person who sends me these and it looks like a fairly legitimate email address. Hmm - decisions, decisions….🤪

Now I expect to hear from the IRS soon about the warrant they had issued to me.

Hands off the Nigerians. I don’t want you messing up the deal I have going with them.

BTW, the IRS is nothing to worry about….it’s the CIA that can cause you problems.😵‍💫

tjc78 · August 2022

@explorerx4 said:
Considering the inflation rate, a low fixed mortgage rate and rising savings rates, I would have gone in a different direction than paying off my mortgage.

My primary is at 2.75. My shore house is 3.1. I’m never refinancing either and have little desire to pay them off early.

fintail · August 2022

I am at 2.75, too. Car is at 2.5, I would rather pay it off first just to be done with it.

tjc78 said:

@explorerx4 said:

Considering the inflation rate, a low fixed mortgage rate and rising savings rates, I would have gone in a different direction than paying off my mortgage.

My primary is at 2.75. My shore house is 3.1. I’m never refinancing either and have little desire to pay them off early.

28firefighter · August 2022

We’re on a fixed rate at 2.3% for 30. Will never pay it off early. I’m only sorry we won’t be in a position to buy a vacation home until next year.

driver100 · August 2022

carnaught said:
Speaking of phony I just got an email from a Nigerian Pres. (not a prince) congratulating me on helping him send out $15.5 million to me, I guess, cause I am a lucky guy. All I have to do is call him. The surprising thing is that I always check the address from the person who sends me these and it looks like a fairly legitimate email address. Hmm - decisions, decisions….🤪

Now I expect to hear from the IRS soon about the warrant they had issued to me.

I just got a Prince and I am only going to get $5 million. You did well carnaught, wish I got that deal.

bwia · August 2022

@oldfarmer50 said:
I’d be more interested in the coincidence between your mortgage transaction and the phishing scheme. Could someone from your bank be feeding the fraudsters information on your banking activity?

Could be, Remember a few years back they had stolen $22,000 from my account at that same bank. Luckily, the bank refunded my money. I had open new accounts, and now I think about it I probably should have switched banks.

bwia · August 2022

@driver100 said:
@bwia
Congratulations, nice to have the mortgage paid off and it makes sense considering the low interest rates paid out. Are you going to have a mortgage burning party?
Do you think the email from the phony bank was a coincidence, was it somebody listening in, or did someone at the bank tip them off?

No mortgage burning party. I only had 7 years left to payoff the original mortgage when a broke, my cousin, approached me to refinance. Since I would have been his first customer I agreed that he could practice on me as he learned the ropes. He learned too well as he was underwriting mortgages with no money down, interest only and every conceivable permutation.
As soon as I was able to recovered my closing costs I decided to pay off the mortgage, and that's what I did.

qbrozen · August 2022

Folks got some deals.
I believe I’m at 2.875 for the primary and like 3.5?? for the condo.

Michaell · August 2022

Please. I'm at 4.5 for our house.

stickguy · August 2022

Just closed on new place at 3.625. That’s a 7/23 arm. But it wont be around long. Probably paid off in a year. 3 max.

stickguy · August 2022

One interesting twist. For first time, my mortgage holder didn’t require escrow for property taxes.

tjc78 · August 2022

@28firefighter said:
We’re on a fixed rate at 2.3% for 30. Will never pay it off early. I’m only sorry we won’t be in a position to buy a vacation home until next year.

If we didn’t buy ours when we did, it would be very difficult now with the higher prices and rates. We haven’t even had this place a year and similar houses to ours on the same block are selling for 60k more than we paid.

kyfdx · August 2022

stickguy said:
One interesting twist. For first time, my mortgage holder didn’t require escrow for property taxes.

If you have 20% or more down, you can almost get out of escrow. They'll try to talk you out of it, but you just have to be persistent.

qbrozen · August 2022

@stickguy said:
One interesting twist. For first time, my mortgage holder didn’t require escrow for property taxes.

That must mean you are paying it on your own, no?

I had that once upon a time and found it annoying. Much easier to let them take care of it.

stickguy · August 2022

yes, I still have to pay it. having them escrow is like having a christmas club account. good for people that can't budget! The only downside is not knowing if they got paid. One time the bank forgot and I did not realize until I got a delinquent notice from the town. That was not fun.

the good part, mortgage payment is a lot lower!

qbrozen · August 2022

Also good for busy people who have enough to worry about. It costs nothing to let the mortgage company do it.

Of course, mortgage payment is exactly the same either way.

Only downside one could argue is the cushion they keep that is earning nothing.

explorerx4 · August 2022

Our banker told us the town probably won't value our house for up to 2 years, then we will get whacked with a big property tax bill.

abacomike · August 2022

I have a 1.9% loan on my G90 on a 60 month term. No logical reason to pay off the loan with most car loan rates in the 2.9% - 3.9% range. I have 44 payments left and expect that this will probably be my last car.

New car warranty is 5 years 60,000 miles bumper-to-bumper. At the end of 5 years, I will make my decision about a new car which I might lease considering I will be in my 80’s.

houdini1 · August 2022

abacomike said:
I have a 1.9% loan on my G90 on a 60 month term. No logical reason to pay off the loan with most car loan rates in the 2.9% - 3.9% range. I have 44 payments left and expect that this will probably be my last car.

New car warranty is 5 years 60,000 miles bumper-to-bumper. At the end of 5 years, I will make my decision about a new car which I might lease considering I will be in my 80’s.

Just make sure you have all service work done on time and are able to validate it.

tjc78 · August 2022

@stickguy said:
yes, I still have to pay it. having them escrow is like having a christmas club account. good for people that can't budget! The only downside is not knowing if they got paid. One time the bank forgot and I did not realize until I got a delinquent notice from the town. That was not fun.

the good part, mortgage payment is a lot lower!

I can’t remember which mortgage company does it but we get notifications whenever they pay the taxes. Pretty good idea. I know on the last house Wells Fargo didn’t do that.

oldfarmer50 · August 2022

tjc78 said:

@explorerx4 said:

Considering the inflation rate, a low fixed mortgage rate and rising savings rates, I would have gone in a different direction than paying off my mortgage.

My primary is at 2.75. My shore house is 3.1. I’m never refinancing either and have little desire to pay them off early.

If I had a mortgage when I built (assuming anyone would give me one on my income) I would have lost the house long ago. I was lucky that I could hang on and see the property value increase 8-10 times over the last 40 years without having to share any of that appreciation with the bank.

laurasdada · August 2022

We locked in at 2.875% apy back in December for the new townhouse (no escrow, my preference). 0% for the A7 and new furniture, too. I like 0%.

bwia · August 2022

@explorerx4 said:
Considering the inflation rate, a low fixed mortgage rate and rising savings rates, I would have gone in a different direction than paying off my mortgage.

That would be true in the past, but recent tax law changes have limited property taxes and other itemized deductions to $10,000 per year.

kyfdx · August 2022

bwia said:

@explorerx4 said:

Considering the inflation rate, a low fixed mortgage rate and rising savings rates, I would have gone in a different direction than paying off my mortgage.

That would be true in the past, but recent tax law changes have limited property taxes and other itemized deductions to $10,000 per year.

Yep.. A few years ago, I paid off my mortgage with 4 years left on it. It was 3%, and I was earning 2.65% in a money market at the time.. But, the money I was earning was subject to income tax, and I received no benefit from the mortgage interest as I can't itemize.

It saved me an estimated $1000 over the four years (calculated at that time). But, it wasn't long before the money market was down below 1%, so in the end, I saved about $2000 (between interest difference and lower income taxes).

$40/mo is $40/mo.

dino001 · August 2022

I paid my mortgage off two years ago. It was kind of interesting - tried to send online a full payoff amount and the system didn't let me. Didn't want to bother calling them, as their customer service generally sucked (old Seterus, later Mr. Cooper), so I simply sent couple of hundred dollars less, thinking send me the last bill and I'll pay it. Interestingly enough they ran their numbers and at the end they owed me a few bucks, so the mortgage got paid off then and there. Their system was just too dumb. Couple of months later I paid off my car loan, too. The most bizarre experience was my credit score dropped almost immediately after payoff. Just slightly, but it did, as now they have "no record" of installment loads. Since then my credit score keeps going down - very slowly, it's still high enough to get best credit, but no longer at that "near perfect" range. Stupidity of that credit scoring system. I've handled all installment loans without any late payments for years, paid them off, and suddenly my creditworthiness is less, not more.

dino001 · August 2022

bwia said:

Considering the inflation rate, a low fixed mortgage rate and rising savings rates, I would have gone in a different direction than paying off my mortgage.

That would be true in the past, but recent tax law changes have limited property taxes and other itemized deductions to $10,000 per year.

This was probably biggest thing I liked about that new tax law - it exposed true cost of the real estate and state/local taxation. That old and tired "tax deductible" pitch from real estate agents was probably one of the most poisonous things that existed in the market, because it allowed people to lie to themselves about how much money their house really cost them. People would be paying huge mortgage and real estate tax bills, but you'd hear "it's OK, I get it all back in taxes", which was patently not true, but you couldn't convince them that when you spend $1000 to "save" $250, you still lost $750, it just didn't register.

jmonroe1 · August 2022

qbrozen said:
Also good for busy people who have enough to worry about. It costs nothing to let the mortgage company do it.

Of course, mortgage payment is exactly the same either way.

Only downside one could argue is the cushion they keep that is earning nothing.

————————————————
Maybe it’s not really a downside, here’s why:

We moved back to the Burgh in August of 1997 after living in SC for 5 years but didn’t buy a house until October of 1998. The interest rate at that time had just inched up to 7% even from a tick below 7% about 6 months earlier. Mrs. j was all for not financing because she didn’t think folks our age should have a mortgage. I don’t know where she got that idea but our investments back then we’re doing a good bit better than 7% so I decided to finance for 30 years knowing full well I would pay it off before that if investments went down.

Fast forward to 2001 when they started to give money away. I decided to refinance at 3.25 % for 15 years. At the suggestion of the mortgage broker we used he said not to set up an escrow account for taxes. Just set up an account for the taxes and use that when taxes came due. Sounded good to me since Mrs. j did that kind of stuff. So that’s what she did…for a couple years. Then she just decided to put the tax money in our liquid savings account and stop playing around with two deposits slips (her words) when she went to the bank each month. Then the tax bills came due. She looked at what was in the tax account and it wasn’t too much. She gulped and said, “oh boy”. I told her she was dumping it in the savings account so what’s so bad. Well, she always treated the savings account as if it had a locked door preventing withdrawals except for large purchases and buying cars. Now she had to find that key to get money out. You’d have thought the world came to an end when she had to take out money to pay the taxes. So guess what? I got blamed for talking her into going along with not having the bank set up an escrow account to pay the taxes like we had always done it.

jmonroe

abacomike · August 2022

I am covered with a 3-year complimentary service/maintenance plan with Genesis that covers brakes, wipers, alignments, oil/filter and belts every 3,000 miles or 6 months ( whichever comes first). The 3000 miles is because I drive short distances (just about to turn 8,000 miles today). It will be serviced in about 6-8 weeks. They give me a loaner and I have all the paperwork in the glove box.

When the 3-year maintenance plan ends, I will get another maintenance plan with Genesis to cover 2 more additional years.

jmonroe1 · August 2022

dino001 said:
I paid my mortgage off two years ago. It was kind of interesting - tried to send online a full payoff amount and the system didn't let me. Didn't want to bother calling them, as their customer service generally sucked (old Seterus, later Mr. Cooper), so I simply sent couple of hundred dollars less, thinking send me the last bill and I'll pay it. Interestingly enough they ran their numbers and at the end they owed me a few bucks, so the mortgage got paid off then and there. Their system was just too dumb. Couple of months later I paid off my car loan, too. The most bizarre experience was my credit score dropped almost immediately after payoff. Just slightly, but it did, as now they have "no record" of installment loads. Since then my credit score keeps going down - very slowly, it's still high enough to get best credit, but no longer at that "near perfect" range. Stupidity of that credit scoring system. I've handled all installment loans without any late payments for years, paid them off, and suddenly my creditworthiness is less, not more.

————————————————
I don’t understand that either.

We paid our house off in 2016 and for grins I looked at my credit score and it went down but like you it was still in the range that would give me the best rate if I ever wanted to finance something. Just about 2 months ago I looked at my rating and it was 5 points below the maximum. It was never that high before.

The only thing I can think of is they finally realize I’m still serious about not having any debt, even a home loan.

jmonroe

stickguy · August 2022

Wells Fargo is the bank that forgot to pay my taxes.

My car loans are an absurd amount monthly but Acura was .9% and Ford is 0%. Seems silly to pay those off early! I will get rid of the mortgage pretty soon though. Probably before the car loans finish. Once all those are gone our monthly cash flow will really improve! Though not for long because I think my wife remembers that I promised she could retire once we had no debt. Maybe I should go buy a Porsche? I’m sure she will be happy to keep working to pay for that!

mjfloyd1 · August 2022

We built our current house and the general contractor gave us the bills to pay. We paid it all before we moved in. The contract was just a a monthly general contractor fee and he forwarded all the bills to us. Very fair. Same when we put in pool and pool house but he did not charge any GC fee because we referred several people to him and he built at least three more houses due to those referrals.

We didn’t have kids until after we were married for 14 years and were DINKS for that period of time so it made sense.

oldfarmer50 · August 2022

dino001 said:
I paid my mortgage off two years ago. It was kind of interesting - tried to send online a full payoff amount and the system didn't let me. Didn't want to bother calling them, as their customer service generally sucked (old Seterus, later Mr. Cooper), so I simply sent couple of hundred dollars less, thinking send me the last bill and I'll pay it. Interestingly enough they ran their numbers and at the end they owed me a few bucks, so the mortgage got paid off then and there. Their system was just too dumb. Couple of months later I paid off my car loan, too. The most bizarre experience was my credit score dropped almost immediately after payoff. Just slightly, but it did, as now they have "no record" of installment loads. Since then my credit score keeps going down - very slowly, it's still high enough to get best credit, but no longer at that "near perfect" range. Stupidity of that credit scoring system. I've handled all installment loans without any late payments for years, paid them off, and suddenly my creditworthiness is less, not more.

I had the same thing happen when I paid off my last car loan. My credit report even said I should have some installment loans to get a better score.

One thing that puzzled me was when I went from near zero credit limit use to 2% because of a single large purchase. My score went down 2 points because of it. I always thought that only usage over 30% triggered a lower score.

I swear, the credit bureaus must have witches standing over a cauldron coming up with scores.

oldfarmer50 · August 2022

dino001 said:

bwia said:

Considering the inflation rate, a low fixed mortgage rate and rising savings rates, I would have gone in a different direction than paying off my mortgage.

That would be true in the past, but recent tax law changes have limited property taxes and other itemized deductions to $10,000 per year.

This was probably biggest thing I liked about that new tax law - it exposed true cost of the real estate and state/local taxation. That old and tired "tax deductible" pitch from real estate agents was probably one of the most poisonous things that existed in the market, because it allowed people to lie to themselves about how much money their house really cost them. People would be paying huge mortgage and real estate tax bills, but you'd hear "it's OK, I get it all back in taxes", which was patently not true, but you couldn't convince them that when you spend $1000 to "save" $250, you still lost $750, it just didn't register.

True. It’s also very regressive, giving more benefit to the highest income homeowners and nothing to people who don’t itemize.

qbrozen · August 2022

I can’t argue about capping interest deduction, but capping real estate tax is just wrong, IMHO.

driver100 · August 2022

houdini1 said:

abacomike said:
I have a 1.9% loan on my G90 on a 60 month term. No logical reason to pay off the loan with most car loan rates in the 2.9% - 3.9% range. I have 44 payments left and expect that this will probably be my last car.

New car warranty is 5 years 60,000 miles bumper-to-bumper. At the end of 5 years, I will make my decision about a new car which I might lease considering I will be in my 80’s.

Just make sure you have all service work done on time and are able to validate it.

.....and don't try to do your own oil change like someone around here did

roadburner · August 2022

I paid my mortgage off in 2007. My mortgage had been transferred to Washington Mutual who at one point paid another customer’s home insurance out of my escrow- then refused to reimburse me until they were reimbursed. I had to file a complaint with the Kentucky Office of Financial Institutions before WaMu would return my money. In 2008 I watched the financial collapse of WaMu with undisguised glee.

tjc78 · August 2022

@qbrozen said:
I can’t argue about capping interest deduction, but capping real estate tax is just wrong, IMHO.

Tell me about it. It should almost be regional. I’m sure I’m some parts of the country 10K in taxes is insane while here in NJ it’s probably not even the average. I’m just shy of 22K for both houses. You probably pay more than that for one in your neck of the woods.

dino001 · August 2022

oldfarmer50 said:

One thing that puzzled me was when I went from near zero credit limit use to 2% because of a single large purchase. My score went down 2 points because of it. I always thought that only usage over 30% triggered a lower score.

I swear, the credit bureaus must have witches standing over a cauldron coming up with scores.

2 points are such marginal values, it doesn't really matter for actual credit application. With credit score there is really no point of looking for logic when it wobbles by +/- 10 points. It can be a Moon phase as far as I know. BTW, 30 percent utilization would likely trigger a 30-50 point drop, depending on other aspects of the credit, so in that context 2 points for 2% is really nothing.

These scores give totally false sense of precision that can be compared for instance to election polls giving a candidate 45.7 percent of votes plus/minus 3 percent. I guess people like precision even when it's completely meaningless - must be human nature. So "proprietary formula" runs a gobbledy-goop calculation returning 847 points and that's what's reported. It's really as good as say 850, but it had to take away 3 points for "whatever". In fact, 840 or 830 scores are really no worse that 850 in terms of actual credit terms, but they're reported to make people like us cringe and feel that we must have messed something up, if they took away 20 points from us.

dino001 · August 2022

qbrozen said:
I can’t argue about capping interest deduction, but capping real estate tax is just wrong, IMHO.

Not to get overly political, but why should anybody get any deduction for that? You want to live in highly taxed place promising all these great services (and perhaps even delivering them), why somebody living on the other side of the country should subsidize that system? I'm not saying one is better than the other, there are big benefits of having good infrastructure, education or social services, but the people who elect the local government to provide that should pay for it. There is no inherent or acquired right to get a discount on your federal tax just because you paid high local/state tax.

Everybody in this country believes they're paying "too much" in taxes, but the same people expect quick arrival of ambulance, top education for children, great roads and whatever else. And it's always somebody else, who should pay for it.

dino001 · August 2022

My estimate of "perfect credit":

- 25+ years length
- 30 grand of available revolving with zero or nearly zero taken
- very specific number of current revolving accounts (probably between 5 and 8)
- lifetime of installment payments, including at least one right now (between $300 and $1000 per month)
- of course, no late payments, judgments, collections (that's a given).

A few years ago one month my Bank of America credit card showed me a perfect score. For one month, then it dropped 2 points. Parameters above were more-less met. It was pretty much hovering within single digits from perfect until I paid off all loans, then it dropped about 10 points. I guess now that I have more disposable money, I'm a little higher risk, makes sense, right?

qbrozen · August 2022

dino001 said:

Not to get overly political, but why should anybody get any deduction for that? You want to live in highly taxed place promising all these great services (and perhaps even delivering them), why somebody living on the other side of the country should subsidize that system? I'm not saying one is better than the other, there are big benefits of having good infrastructure, education or social services, but the people who elect the local government to provide that should pay for it. There is no inherent or acquired right to get a discount on your federal tax just because you paid high local/state tax.

Everybody in this country believes they're paying "too much" in taxes, but the same people expect quick arrival of ambulance, top education for children, great roads and whatever else. And it's always somebody else, who should pay for it.

1. It is double taxation.
2. You make the mistake of thinking the higher taxes result in greater benefit.

Look at it this way: you can choose to itemize and deduct sales tax on large purchases. Someone in one state buys a new car, but pays 0 sales tax. Someone in another state buys that exact same car and pays 10% sales tax. Person 2 gets to deduct that sales tax, while person 1 has nothing to deduct. How does that factor into your system of fairness? They are both getting the same service from the same vehicle. The only difference is how the state taxed it.

Same thing with my property tax. I get nothing extra from it. It is the corrupt and broken system in my state. We vote people out and in all the time, but the next regime just perpetuates the problem, despite all their promises to the contrary. My kids don't get a better education than places with lower taxes. I don't get any services. We have no police force in our town, no public trash, no public water or sewer.

Heck, I feel like I must be paying for others' services. The guy in the next state is paying 1/3rd the taxes but getting the same services. Who is paying for that? They must be getting more federal help, no? So why shouldn't they pay more federal tax? If all the services for my family cost (just throwing out random numbers) $25k, and I pay $18k of that through property tax, the feds cough up the remaining $7k (through income tax of course). Take my same homestead and move it somewhere else where $7k property tax pays a portion and the feds must be coughing up $18k for the difference. hmmm. I honestly have no clue if that's how it works, but how else would it? The money has to come from somewhere.

Do I CHOOSE to live here? Well, kind of. Not much of a choice. Am I supposed to let absurd taxes divide me from my family?

dino001 · August 2022

Unless you're for abolishing local and state governments and federal government running every service, local and state matters should be funded and run by local and state taxes. Federal matters are funded and run by federal taxes. It's not double taxation at all. Bottom line people in high taxation location elected politicians that enacted it, so I don't see reason why somebody living in a different place should subsidize it by giving them a tax break that covers different matters. Regarding undelivered benefits - see above. You say you can't get your politicians to keep promises, but why people in Florida or Wyoming should pay for that by giving you a break on taxes that cover other matters? BTW, I somehow doubt people are voting out politicians. Seems like same parties win in a given district for decades. Pretty much everywhere, so that's not a unique problem to any place. If you choose a different clown from same company that's not really voting people out. Nobody prohibited NY or NJ people to elect politicians that would make their states like TX or FL - or vice versa, for that matter, which may finally happen judging by number of New Yorkers settling there. They escape the "oppression" of New York and then of course they elect people who'll make the new place more similar to New York.

It is always us who's paying too much it is always somebody else who is getting the benefits.

tjc78 · August 2022

@dino001 said:
Not to get overly political, but why should anybody get any deduction for that? You want to live in highly taxed place promising all these great services (and perhaps even delivering them), why somebody living on the other side of the country should subsidize that system? I'm not saying one is better than the other, there are big benefits of having good infrastructure, education or social services, but the people who elect the local government to provide that should pay for it. There is no inherent or acquired right to get a discount on your federal tax just because you paid high local/state tax.

Everybody in this country believes they're paying "too much" in taxes, but the same people expect quick arrival of ambulance, top education for children, great roads and whatever else. And it's always somebody else, who should pay for it.

Wow, just wow.

I’ll hold my response… but will say that Q summed it up well.

bwia · August 2022

With a wave of other electric models set to follow in short order, the EV6 GT shows that Kia is pushing its way to the sharp end of the EV revolution. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a40756379/2023-kia-ev6-gt-drive/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_cdb&utm_medium=email&date=080222&utm_campaign=nl28573847&utm_term=AAA -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers

Specifications
2023 Kia EV6 GT
Vehicle Type: front- and rear-motor, all-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door wagon

PRICE (C/D EST)
Base: $69,000

POWERTRAIN
Front Motor: permanent-magnet synchronous AC, 215 hp
Rear Motor: permanent-magnet synchronous AC, 362 hp
Combined Power: 577 hp
Combined Torque: 546 lb-ft
Battery Pack: liquid-cooled lithium-ion, 77.4 kWh
Onboard Charger: 10.9 kW
Transmissions, F/R: direct-drive/direct-drive

DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 114.2 in
Length: 184.8 in
Width: 74.4 in
Height: 60.8 in
Passenger Volume: 103 ft3
Cargo Volume: 24 ft3
Curb Weight (C/D est): 4820 lb

PERFORMANCE (C/D EST)
60 mph: 3.2 sec
100 mph: 7.8 sec
1/4-Mile: 11.4 sec
Top Speed: 161 mph

EPA FUEL ECONOMY (C/D EST)
Combined/City/Highway: 96/105/85 MPGe
Range: 240 mi

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