I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

1119811991201120312041214

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  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 17,544
    Inflation really took off in the ‘70s. Oil prices drove it in the latter times of Nixon and then Ford - remember his “WIN” (Whip Inflation Now”) buttons?

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,588
    I wonder if competition from other makes/models helped with that leveling of prices. Thinking of MB, in 1992, the all-new S-class debuted, and a 500SEL had a base price of ~90K. In 2012, a base S550 was ~95K (both cars might exist only in theory, as finding a true base car is next to impossible). Even in 2022, a base S580 is 118K - not a huge amount of inflation relative to the increases in tech. Lexus entering the market and other Germans (and Tesla) moving upmarket did it, I think.

    I wish my family had saved records for old cars like yours. I think mine were the type who would toss the window sticker the day after buying the car, although I recall my grandpa kept service folders. I think our quite loaded Tempo was around 10K, and the moderately equipped 93 Taurus maybe 14-15K, incentives aplenty on those. S10 Blazer might have been in the low teens, not a base model but not loaded. I want to say my dad's hard loaded 96 T&C was something like 36-38K, most expensive car he ever bought.
    andre1969 said:

    Looking back on some of those old prices, I think it's interesting how the auto makers held the line on prices in the first half of the 1960's. Sure, you had some price creep on the low end as Ford, Chevy, and Plymouth moved upscale a bit. But, I'm thinking in terms of that '57 DeSoto Firesweep, versus my Granddad's '63 Monterey. Usually, DeSotos were upscale from Mercury, as Mercury tended to compete more with Dodge and Pontiac. But in '57 they started moving Mercury upscale, to clear some room for the upcoming Edsel, and it was definitely into DeSoto/Chrysler and Olds/Buick territory by then.

    Mercury moved back downscale for 1961, but by '63 it seemed like they were getting nicer and more upscale again. In terms of hierarchy/prestige, I would think of the '57 Firesweep and '63 Monterey Custom more or less on equal footing. Oddly, the horsepower isn't much different. I don't see any mention of an optional engine for either of those cars in the paperwork, so the '57 Firesweep should have a 325 Dodge Poly 2-bbl with 245 hp. The '63 Monterey, should have a 390, but with only 250 hp, so I'd imagine a mild 2-bbl? I'm presuming that Merc-O-Matic was a 3-speed automatic. So, 6 years into the future, it looks to me like the buyer's actually getting a nicer car, for about $300 less.

    I think it was 1967, that prices started creeping back up again. At least, I remember doing a quick look, and a 57 New Yorker and a '67 New Yorker both started around $4200. It is interesting though, how much of that "better car", "more prestigious car", etc, was really just marketing sleight-of-hand.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,177
    It's really amazing how much inflation has hit, especially as of late. I can still remember paying $22,389 out the door for my 2000 Intrepid, in November 1999. Putting that into an inflation calculator, that's like $39800 today!

    I shudder at the thought of paying nearly $40K for a car today. Heck, I really don't even want to pay the $22,389. But to think way back when I was only 29, I bought what was essentially a ~$40K car!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 15,034
    Most I ever paid for a new vehicle was $24K. I'd say my next one will be beyond that.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,588
    edited September 24
    My most expensive purchase was the wagon at 45K and change residual (+ lease end fees and I bought a warranty). I leased more expensive cars, the wagon was in the upper 70s MSRP and the others in the mid 60s, but most leases were heavily subsidized. I think the Bluetec was little more than fees and first payment upfront, 69K MSRP, payment before tax was something like $585. Gas E350 with 63K MSRP in an end of year deal was closer to $500 pretax. The E55 was 27K for a 4 year old 25K mile car, and I think I paid 19K for the C43.
  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 14,386
    edited September 24

    I’ve only financed one car and that was my 98 Olds 88. I think I financed 20k on that. Can’t remember the MSRP. I’ve been leasing ever since.

    Wife’s XC is the most expensive/highest payment I’ve owned at just over 60k. 620/month lease including tax with only first OOP.

    Cheapest car I’ve ever owned was my 79 Continental. Ironically aside from my Taurus I put more miles on that than anything I’ve owned since. I paid $700 for it and sunk probably $2500 keeping it running, then got $500 when I sold it.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 15,034
    edited September 24
    The only window sticker I've had for any of my hobby cars, is this one (car is in Australia, but here's a copy of the window sticker). It was a '64 Studebaker Daytona two-door hardtop, built in Hamilton, Ontario in June '64 and sold new by my hometown dealer. I bought it in 2010 from a guy in Wisconsin, long story. The original owner in Greenville had it until 1990. I sold it a year later, as it needed a lot more work than the seller let on.

    I was curious about the "CORRECTED" stamp on the sticker. I got the build sheet from the museum, and it had no dealer destination noted on it, which to me means the original window sticker didn't have one (apparently built for factory stock). When the local dealer got it for a customer, apparently the corrected sticker was printed at Hamilton.

    Ironically, the brochure artwork shows a Daytona Hardtop in the same Strato (dark) Blue metallic as the car, so I figured the guy's wife probably said, "Let's get one like this!".


  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,588
    edited September 24
    My cheapest that I actually bought was the fintail, $1600 (66 Galaxie was a cool $1000, but was bought by mom and dad although I drove it a bit, to school etc). Just after Y2K picked up the 89 300SE for 7K - it had the window sticker at 53K, base model S-class for 1989. Then had the C43, E55, 4 leases, and bought the wagon. Lease deals seem to be a thing of the past, so might never do that again, and new cars are becoming less interesting to me with time, so I might not splurge as much in the past.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,588
    Andre mentioned the "Malaise Motors" group, I looked it up and it became a rabbit hole of sorts. Now I am thinking if I ever pick up another old car, it might be of that era. Someone posted this low mileage Sapporo, and I was charmed - I've always liked these, and still do:



    Hen's tooth though. Other period cars that appeal - properly equipped bustleback or 77-79 T-Bird, early 80s MB turbodiesel or 126, BMW E23 and E24 have always been stylish to me, Mk 1 or 2 Supra, Cressida of same era, maybe a first gen Datsun 810, finding a clone of our Tempo in perfect low mileage condition would be funny (but the driving experience may become painfully boring in little time).

    This thing still lurks in my mind, too, it brought 26K during the height of covid, someone got a steal:



  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,974
    that sapporo is pretty neat.

    I love cars from that era. I graduated college in 84 so those were the cars I was into back when I first was actually shopping for something new.

    a corolla hatch, 1st gen GTI, there were a lot of cool cars back then. plus they were modern enough to actually use as a car!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,974
    must have been fighting off the girls with those hot wheels!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 212,397
    stickguy said:

    must have been fighting off the girls with those hot wheels!

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 15,034
    edited September 25
    michaell, looks like you're ready to 'heel and toe'!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 15,034
    edited September 25
    Here's the '64 Daytona in the window sticker I posted above. Original owners had no children and were in their forties when they bought the car. They both died within three or four months of each other. Their executor somehow knew I'd bought their car and knew my sister. He pulled a big framed thing out of their house for me, prior to the sale. It was one of those frames that had a bunch of cutouts for smaller pics....the kind people would normally have for pics of grandkids. It's all pics of this Stude. Man, that's beyond even what I'd do! LOL

    The $56 for "reclining seat" on the sticker sounds like a lot, but that also covers the 50/50 individual front seats.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,177
    There's a lot of stuff I like from that malaise era, but I think it's funny, on that facebook page, how crazy some people go for that era. I wonder if that might be because a lot of it is younger people, who didn't get to experience it the first time around, so it holds some kind of allure for them. Meanwhile, in my case, I never really escaped it! For me, I tend to think of the malaise era as going from 1973 (when emissions controls started really getting bad and choking just about everything) to 1982 (around the time when it all bottomed out. By '83 it seemed like the engines were getting better, emissions/computer controls were improving, etc). But for that site, I think they use 1973 to 1996, or whatever year OBD-II computer systems became standard. But basically, I guess I first got exposed to it when my Mom bought her '75 LeMans and my grandparents bought their '75 Dart Swinger, and it's been in my life ever since. My grandparents hated the Swinger almost immediately, as it would stall out at random and the dealer never could get it right. The LeMans actually wasn't too bad at first, although I think it needed a new distributor early on. Dad also hit a tree with it, in '77, and even though the car was fixed, Mom said it never ran right after that. Still, as bad as cars from that era could be, I'll still confess a perverse fascination with them.

    A couple months ago, I stopped in the local liquor store to grab some vital supplies just before the Mopar show. I was in the 5th Ave. Coming out to the car, I probably spent a good 10-15 minutes talking to people who seemed to come out of the woodwork, curious about the car. Maybe I just take it for granted, because I've had it almost 21 years so I'm used to it. But, I guess seeing one isn't exactly an everyday occurrence anymore! And wow, to think that suddenly it's a car that's 44 model years old! At least, I'm presuming the 2023 models are starting to trickle in here and there...I haven't really been paying attention.
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 6,194
    Drivability issues such as hard starting, surging, stalling, weak response or hesitation, poor gas mileage, overheating and the list goes on…seemed to be fairly universal across all makes during that period of 73-early 80s. I think the acceptance of fuel injection by most makes considerably improved drivability and overall performance.


    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 15,034
    edited September 25
    For me, peak malaise is.....right now, LOL.

    I think there are only a couple other guys on this forum who are about the same age as me, but my interest level really started declining after the RWD intermediates stopped at GM--'87/88. The FWD era I just accepted, I guess. Tie that into getting married, having kids, switching jobs, parents becoming older/ill, etc.

    The worst driveability era, for GM's anyway in my experience, was '73-74, then '81-82, the first couple years of 'Computer Command Control'. Seems like by the '83 model year, they had that under control, and also some engines with decent power returned--like 305 4-barrels after a couple years or so of 267's being the only choice, stuff like that. Why you could get more power in a full-sized Chevy than the same year Cadillac, is something that has made me scratch my head for almost forty years.
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 6,194
    I am in your age group, 63. I tend to agree we are in a malaise period with the continued loss of available sedans, lack of overall inventory, price gouging, push, (arm twisting?) to go EV, all things CUV, SUV, prices $30k+ on anything desirable. Insane.


    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 16,167
    sda said:

    Drivability issues such as hard starting, surging, stalling, weak response or hesitation, poor gas mileage, overheating and the list goes on…seemed to be fairly universal across all makes during that period of 73-early 80s. I think the acceptance of fuel injection by most makes considerably improved drivability and overall performance.


    I remember a professional mechanic in another topic who chastised me for removing the emissions gear on my 1973 Bavaria and 1975 2002; he claimed that the cars ran fine when properly tuned up. That comment alone convinced me that he had never driven either model when they were fully burdened by the emissions equipment.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
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    Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,177
    I'm 52, but in agreement that in some respects, this current period is about as "malaise" as it gets. Oddly, while there are a ton of vehicles from the "true" malaise period I'd love to have and could still get excited about, today there's nothing. Among domestics, the only thing I really like in cars is the Charger, and I'm sure that won't be around much longer. I like the Dodge Rams, and don't mind the F-150. I find the Silverado/Sierra's style to be offputting, though. But, I guess I'm still a bit old fashioned, and look at trucks as more of an appliance. I don't really get excited about them the way I would a car.

    About the only cars left that I could see myself really liking would be something like an S-class Benz, Lexus LS, something in that league. But I'm not willing to spend that kind of money.

    I think a lot of older people though, started losing interest in cars once coupes went away. Basically, the old fashioned "a 4-door can't be a musclecar" type of crowd. It's a shame in a way, because we really are living in a golden age when it comes to performance and such. Even my 2003 Regal is probably quicker from 0-60 than any domestic built in 1980, with the exception of maybe the Corvette or a Trans Am Turbo. Maybe, a Z-28? And my Regal feels like a dog.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,588
    Many old car owners would be over the moon to have such documentation. They loved that car. Sticker is remarkably cheap for what you get, but that was an era when normal working people were at roughly the zenith of their purchasing power. The fintail would have been a little over 5K then, I think.

    Here's the '64 Daytona in the window sticker I posted above. Original owners had no children and were in their forties when they bought the car. They both died within three or four months of each other. Their executor somehow knew I'd bought their car and knew my sister. He pulled a big framed thing out of their house for me, prior to the sale. It was one of those frames that had a bunch of cutouts for smaller pics....the kind people would normally have for pics of grandkids. It's all pics of this Stude. Man, that's beyond even what I'd do! LOL

    The $56 for "reclining seat" on the sticker sounds like a lot, but that also covers the 50/50 individual front seats.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,588
    I graduated from 3rd grade in 1985 :) but maybe as I was exposed to a lot of media from the era, I've been into it for one reason or another. Rose colored glasses no doubt, but I understand why it is popular now.
    Michaell said:

    Same here - I graduated in ‘85.

    My sister sent me a couple of photo albums, and I’ve got a picture with my first car:

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,588
    edited September 25
    Golden age of performance, and so many bland or homely designs. That's what does it for me - endless cloned CUVs and pretentious trucks, pseudo-aggressive or invisible electric appliance styling themes with plenty of cliches (faux floating C-pillars, leering eyes, DLO fail are modern versions of vinyl tops and wire wheelcovers, perhaps), greyscale color mandates, etc. Malaise in terms of being able to generate my enthusiasm, especially in the dwindling number of relatively affordable cars.
    andre1969 said:

    I'm 52, but in agreement that in some respects, this current period is about as "malaise" as it gets. Oddly, while there are a ton of vehicles from the "true" malaise period I'd love to have and could still get excited about, today there's nothing. Among domestics, the only thing I really like in cars is the Charger, and I'm sure that won't be around much longer. I like the Dodge Rams, and don't mind the F-150. I find the Silverado/Sierra's style to be offputting, though. But, I guess I'm still a bit old fashioned, and look at trucks as more of an appliance. I don't really get excited about them the way I would a car.

    About the only cars left that I could see myself really liking would be something like an S-class Benz, Lexus LS, something in that league. But I'm not willing to spend that kind of money.

    I think a lot of older people though, started losing interest in cars once coupes went away. Basically, the old fashioned "a 4-door can't be a musclecar" type of crowd. It's a shame in a way, because we really are living in a golden age when it comes to performance and such. Even my 2003 Regal is probably quicker from 0-60 than any domestic built in 1980, with the exception of maybe the Corvette or a Trans Am Turbo. Maybe, a Z-28? And my Regal feels like a dog.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,588
    I still clearly remember my dad removing stuff from my mom's T-Bird, this would have been in 1980-1981. I wonder how much of that stuff even still works on a 40 year old car.

    sda said:

    Drivability issues such as hard starting, surging, stalling, weak response or hesitation, poor gas mileage, overheating and the list goes on…seemed to be fairly universal across all makes during that period of 73-early 80s. I think the acceptance of fuel injection by most makes considerably improved drivability and overall performance.


    I remember a professional mechanic in another topic who chastised me for removing the emissions gear on my 1973 Bavaria and 1975 2002; he claimed that the cars ran fine when properly tuned up. That comment alone convinced me that he had never driven either model when they were fully burdened by the emissions equipment.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,177
    My '76 Grand LeMans was originally built for California, or some area with stricter emissions, as it has the somewhat rare (for '76) Pontiac 350-4bbl. At some point, it had a smog pump on it. I found this out at one of the GM car shows in Carlisle one year. There was a guy who had a '77 Grand LeMans sedan, with a 301, and he was pretty knowledgable about them. He had spotted some of the left over brackets and hardware that signified it once upon a time had a smog pump. I don't know if it had catalytic converters when new, but it doesn't have them now. When I bought it, it had a dual exhaust, something I have a feeling it didn't leave the factory with.

    At least, I think the 350-4bbl is somewhat rare for '76. Whenever I'd see '76 LeManses, or Grand Prixes, for sale with the 350, it was always a 2-bbl. In the VIN it's an "M" code whereas the 4-bbl is "P". And oddly, the '76 LeMans brochure doesn't even mention a 350-4bbl. I'm too lazy to dig my LeMans-specific brochure out of the basement, but here's what the '76 full-line brochure says...

    IIRC, the five V8s they refer to are the Olds 260, the Pontiac 350-2bbl, Pontiac 400-2bbl, Pontiac 400-4bbl, and Pontiac 455-4bbl.

    My car actually does run pretty well, although if it's been sitting awhile, it can be hard to start. It had problems with the choke/fast idle when I first got it, but at some point the mechanic fiddled around with it and got it running pretty well.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 15,034
    edited September 25
    I am not aware of any GM automobiles sold domestically in the 1975 or later model years that did not have a catalytic converter installed when new.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 15,034
    They loved that car.

    Here's another photo in that frame (now on my office wall).

    Ahem, can't say I'm upset it didn't come with the "Never Been Recalled" homemade front plate when I got it twenty years after the original owners sold it to a guy in Wisconsin.


  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 16,167
    andre1969 said:

    I'm 52, but in agreement that in some respects, this current period is about as "malaise" as it gets. Oddly, while there are a ton of vehicles from the "true" malaise period I'd love to have and could still get excited about, today there's nothing. Among domestics, the only thing I really like in cars is the Charger, and I'm sure that won't be around much longer. I like the Dodge Rams, and don't mind the F-150. I find the Silverado/Sierra's style to be offputting, though. But, I guess I'm still a bit old fashioned, and look at trucks as more of an appliance. I don't really get excited about them the way I would a car.

    About the only cars left that I could see myself really liking would be something like an S-class Benz, Lexus LS, something in that league. But I'm not willing to spend that kind of money.

    I think a lot of older people though, started losing interest in cars once coupes went away. Basically, the old fashioned "a 4-door can't be a musclecar" type of crowd. It's a shame in a way, because we really are living in a golden age when it comes to performance and such. Even my 2003 Regal is probably quicker from 0-60 than any domestic built in 1980, with the exception of maybe the Corvette or a Trans Am Turbo. Maybe, a Z-28? And my Regal feels like a dog.

    I'm definitely looking for a coupe or a sedan- RWD/AWD only(preferably RWD). The only SUV I'd want is another Wrangler. CUVs need not apply.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,177
    Oh, so GM went to them, across the board in 1975? I think Chrysler and Ford were able to get around it, with some of their engines. And I know someone who once had an AMC Hornet wagon, a '76 I believe, that didn't have a catalytic converter. It caused a headache, when emissions time came around, because she (well, it was her parents' car at the time) had to actually get documentation from AMC stating that the car was not built with a catalytic converter.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 15,034
    Every single Chevy brochure in '75 I got touted some marketing name for the combination of catalytic converter and electronic ignition, talking about improved driveability and MPG on unleaded gas.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 15,034
    edited September 25
    Here's the last page of the 1975 Chevrolet full-line brochure. No CC exceptions in the cars:

    http://oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Chevrolet/1975_Chevrolet/1975_Chevrolet_Full_Line_Brochure/1975 Chevrolet Full Line-16.html
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,096
    So before 75 or so spark plugs were changed as soon as every 6000 miles? Wow. Changing at 22.5k for 75 models was a huge improvement. I remember that starting in the mid 1990s many cars started going to 100k spark plugs. Was there at time in the 80s when it was c. 50k?
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,177
    edited September 25
    Wasn't unleaded fuel a pretty big factor in the spark plugs lasting longer? I'm wondering too, if the spark plugs themselves had some kind of technological improvement? I mean, there's not much to a spark plug in the first place, but I imagine it could still be improved upon, to a degree.

    At first I was thinking there was a point in the 70's where they pushed them to 60,000 miles, but that might have been automatic transmission servicing. Here's a clip from the 1980 Malibu brochure... It's showing 30,000 mile intervals for all engines except the 4.4/267 V8 which was, oddly, still at 22,500 miles.

    That 100,000 mile service interval for the automatic transmission fluid seems a bit optimistic to me, though! If people were following that, no wonder those THM200's failed so quickly! 😯

    By this time though, GM was mix&matching the THM200 and the THM350, so I'd presume that meant for all transmissions? Of course, in parentheses, it says (Under normal driving conditions). It's been awhile since I've looked at an owner's manual, but I remember they'd often have a "Normal" service schedule that looked overly optimistic, and then a "Severe Duty" schedule that had much shorter mile/time intervals. And, when you read the fine print, "Severe Duty" pretty much translated to "How most people probably drive."

    I'll confess, I did let the spark plugs go about 40,000 miles or more without changing on my '68 Dart. Probably shouldn't have, though!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,588
    edited September 25
    Slight time warp on the road - Itasca Phasar (same as Winnebago LeSharo) in quite decent condition, 2 door soft top Kia Sportage, 2 door soft top Isuzu Rodeo, 65 Comet wagon, ~90 Bronco.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,974
    took a drive through a part of the new neighborhood next to mine that I had not seen before. someone has a late 60s/early 70s I would guess VW bus. orange and white, but a camper with a high rise roof. Not a westphalia with the pop up though. a fixed bump up. I imagine it is extremely slow.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 15,034
    I always thought/heard 100K on trans fluid was a real stretch. To this day, I drain-and-fill (not a flush) at about 60K. I know it doesn't get all the old fluid, but I've heard a flush can be hard/bad for the trans.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,177
    edited September 26
    Yeah, I've heard the same thing about the drain and fills, versus a full flush. This made me look at my records. Looks like I had the Regal done in 2018, around 72,000 miles and the Ram, also in 2018, around 48,000. The Regal's up to around 105,000 and the Ram has all of ~59000. I had gotten into the habit of doing my 2000 Intrepid every 30,000 miles, as a precaution, because their transmissions had a reputation for being weak. Or, more specifically, at 31K, 62K, 90K, and 123.5K. It was soon going to be due for another one, but then got totaled from a hit-and-run while parked, at 150,351 miles. The previous service had been $105, so I guess on the plus side, that hit and run saved me around $100 or so 😐

    Oh, on an unrelated note, oopsie! Looking at this picture, I think it drives home the point of what was wrong with Chrysler at that time. Well, one of the things that was wrong, at least. At a quick glance, I couldn't tell if that was a Mirada or a Cordoba, and I'm a fan of these cars!

    Obviously, I can tell them from the front, but from the back they just have a generic look. The badge on the right side of the trunk lid is in cursive, and looks like it starts with a "C", so for that I'd think it was a Cordoba. And, it is. In looking at pics online, while the rear-ends are very similar, the taillights on the Cordoba are wider, and the backup lights flank the license plate. On the MIrada, the taillights are narrower, with a bit of body color between them and the license plate, and the backup lights are built into the taillight assembly in a subtle sort of fashion.

    But, if that had been a GM personal luxury coupe of that era, there would be no mistaking one for the other. And even a T-bird/Cougar would have been a noticeable difference.

    In Chrysler's defense, they were pretty much out of money at that point, but still...
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 6,194
    I thought both versions were handsome cars. I do recall CU complaining from the interior it was awkward to open and close the heavy door because of the location of the door pull.


    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,177
    edited September 26
    Yeah, there's no actual indentation in the armrest, where you can grab, so you have to used that angled pull-handle, that's mounted way too far forward, to pull the door shut. So not only do you have to put more effort into closing the door, it's going to put more of a strain on that door pull, ensuring it comes loose eventually.

    My '76 Grand LeMans has a pull strap mounted in roughly the same location as that Cordoba's door pull, but thankfully it also has the indentation in the soft molded part of the armrest to grab onto, as well.

    Chrysler did something similar with the R-body, where the armrests are totally smooth across the top, except for ashtrays and, on the New Yorker/5th Ave models, the power window switches. To close the door, you're supposed to use a pull strap, and they would usually work their way loose pretty quickly. One saving grace, is that you can at least grab ahold of the armrest, where the indentation for the door handle is, and use that to pull it closed. That's what I've always done, and whenever I have passengers in my 5th Ave, I tell them those pull straps are for show, only!
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 17,544
    andre1969 said:

    Yeah, there's no actual indentation in the armrest, where you can grab, so you have to used that angled pull-handle, that's mounted way too far forward, to pull the door shut.

    That’s the same problem the rental 2021 RAV4 that I had recently had. It just had too many design quirks for me to like it.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,204
    @ab348 - how'd your area fare in the storm?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 15,034
    edited September 26
    RE.: Door pull straps--I would semi-regularly see Colonnade-era Monte Carlos with the door pull straps off at one end. Same straps as used on Grand Prix, and I'm not sure about the others.

    When I had '81 and '82 Monte Carlos, I ALWAYS closed the doors with the indentation in the armrest. I used to suggest my parents do that too, but they were like "aaahhh, whatever".

    P.S. I'm pretty amazed that the '76 Pontiac brochure would not list at all, a 350 4-barrel as your car has. I've not experienced that type of thing. Does you car still have that sticker at the front end of the engine compartment showing displacement? Might not show 'barrels', now that I think about it.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,177
    edited September 26
    D'oh, just like Ronald Reagan said to Dan Rather, "I don't remember". Looks like the 350-4 WAS in the '76 brochure! I just dug it out and took a pic of the engine list...
    I also looked under the hood, and the sticker that shows the engine displacement isn't there. Which is kind of odd, as the car's not particularly shabby. I usually expect stuff like that from a car that's had a really rough life, or maybe one that's been restored and they forgot to put the sticker (or a replacement) on.

    It's kind of a shame that Pontiac (and Olds and Buick for that matter) didn't have an engine to slot in between the tiny 250 and 260 (or 231 at Buick/Olds), and the 350 CID engines. Chevy, at least, had the 305 in the Malibu, which was probably a good middle ground between the 6-cyl and the 350. Of course, for '77, Pontiac would start using its 301 (305 in Canada)

    But, in '76, that seemed the norm. IIRC, Ford just gave up totally with its heavy Torino and Montego, and made a 351 standard. Their 250-6 cyl had been overmatched in these cars for awhile, and at some point I guess even the 302 wasn't enough for them. And over at Mopar, the 318 wasn't too bad in the Coronet or "The New, Small Fury". But a 360 was a LOT better!
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 6,194
    The Chrysler 340 and 360 V8s were good engines and put the boots to a lot of other engines of similar size.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 17,544
    edited September 26
    Instead of repeating what I posted yesterday in C&C I’ll link to that below. Still no power which is more than a bit surprising as I’ve never been without it for this long before (since midnight Friday). Thank goodness for the generator.

    https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/18576/general/x/edmunds-members-cars-and-conversations/p2876
    texases said:

    @ab348 - how'd your area fare in the storm?

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 6,194
    ab348 said:

    Instead of repeating what I posted yesterday in C&C I’ll link to that below. Still no power which is more than a bit surprising as I’ve never been without it for this long before (since midnight Friday). Thank goodness for the generator.

    https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/18576/general/x/edmunds-members-cars-and-conversations/p2876

    texases said:

    @ab348 - how'd your area fare in the storm?

    I hope it gets restored soon. It is amazing how much we rely on it in our daily lives. Gas stations cannot pump without power, which is a hard reality check.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 15,034
    Yikes, Greg. Safety trumps lack of electricity of course.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,177
    edited September 26
    sda said:

    I hope it gets restored soon. It is amazing how much we rely on it in our daily lives. Gas stations cannot pump without power, which is a hard reality check.

    I'll echo that. Hope everything gets restored, soon! The longest I can ever remember being without power was when a derecho came through and hit the DC area around midnight on a Friday night, in early summer 2012. I was hanging with some friends in DC, and they never lost power, but the winds were something fierce. When I went home the next day, as I got closer to home, I was seeing traffic lights out, trees down here and there, some gas stations with no cars at all, and the few that still had power, had long lines.

    My grandmom was still living back then, across the street, and we didn't want her baking in her cinder block house with no a/c, so Mom came and got her. Power was out Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. Came back on sometime Tuesday during the day when I was at work. Oddly at work, just 2.5 miles away, power was on. I had two housemates at the time, and we ended up crashing with a friend about 20 miles away, who had power. We just opened all the upstairs windows to the house so that it didn't get too horribly hot, and went by once a day to check on the cats. My housemate had a little portable generator thingie that hooked to the car, and we used it to run an air pump, to at least circulate the water in the fish tank, and the outdoor fish pond, in the hopes that it would oxygenate them. Guess it worked, because we didn't get any floaters!

    At the time, my uncle was living with Grandmom, helping to take care of her. He ran out that Tuesday, and bought a portable generator, only to come home, and find the power back on.

    Anyway, ab348, hope your ordeal is better than ours was! And, in the overall scheme of things, I'll admit ours wasn't THAT bad!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,177
    Over on curbside classic, in the comments section of one of their articles on the Motortend's 1977 car issue, someone posted the following test sheet, of a few '76 cars. It was of particular interest to me, because one of the cars was a '76 LeMans...
    Gotta say, that acceleration of the LeMans actually makes me embarrassed! Sometimes ignorance is bliss! :o
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