Postwar Studebakers

uplanderguy · March 2023

I honestly estimated it would bring $40K.

'64 Hawks are among the most-wanted, and Avanti engines add a good bit to the value. Add that this car was restored authentically, and I thought this was one to watch. This seller sweated the small details, had over 100 good photos, added videos, and politely and fully answered questions. I know guys who wouldn't have the patience to do that, as a seller. Good for him.

I just love the car, myself. I do think there are people out there who like the rarity and different-ness of a late-year Studebaker.

thebean · March 2023

Thanks for your thoughts, sir. I really prefer Cruisers like yours, but I see the appeal of a GT Hawk.

uplanderguy · March 2023

Just stumbled upon a couple rare 1964 Champ pickup magazine ads. Studebaker didn't advertise trucks much in the '60's.

sda · March 2023

5 speed transmission? wow

uplanderguy · March 2023

The big, bold grille seemed to predate the concept on other pickups.

Pretty bad job of airbrushing "STUDEBAKER" on the tailgate in the lower pic, LOL.

I'd have thought the lettering would've been black on a white pickup, but just not sure.

kyfdx · March 2023

sda said:
5 speed transmission? wow

You think that might be on the bigger, heavy-duty models?

uplanderguy · March 2023

Five-speeds were indeed available on Champs.

uplanderguy · March 2023

Stude/MB/Saab dealership, 1965, 1854 S. Jefferson, Roanoke, VA. I'd love to be able to walk in this place today, sigh.

fintail · March 2023

New fintails with narrow band whitewalls would be (then new) 1965 models. Looks like a couple more in the showroom too. Signage on that building would be worth a fortune today.

sda · March 2023

When did MB start using radial tires?

fintail · March 2023

sda said:
When did MB start using radial tires?

I am not sure - maybe by 1970. Wide whites appeared on most cars (so optioned) until MY 1964.

uplanderguy · March 2023

I was surprised to see two identical Cruisers, both white, with blackwalls against full wheel covers.

The '64-65 full wheel cover is Studebaker's best-looking cover IMHO....and this from a guy who owns a '66.

It does look like there are two M-B's and a Studebaker two-door sedan in the showroom.

uplanderguy · March 2023

Yesterday, six years ago, I bought my current Stude, a '66 Cruiser. It has some patina, but pretty nice for an original-paint-and-interior, unrestored car.

Here's a pic. Not great background, but it's about ten miles from home, where I stopped for an ice cream, then turned around to go home. I was still running the factory wire caps at that point.

uplanderguy · March 2023

Here's a '60 photo of that same Roanoke dealer....back when the Stude business was better.

uplanderguy · March 2023

Another '60 photo, Roanoke

I'm surprised they had Saab that far back. I think a lot of Stude dealers got into the 'fringe' imports about the time U.S. production shut down, and the trucks, Hawks, and Avantis were no longer part of the model lineup. For the '65 lineup, they even took away the two-door hardtop and convertible.

fintail · March 2023

No fintails yet - production started by September 59, but larger scale US imports not until well into 1960. Dauphine at right,

uplanderguy · March 2023

Those fintails in the Sept. '59 Stude dealer introduction film were super-early then. I wonder if they were pilot-production cars.

fintail · March 2023

I suspect they were pilot run cars with a quick update to US spec - I believe the only exterior difference then was lighting, and that could be swapped out in a few minutes.

thebean · March 2023

I love the Pontons in a couple of those pics. In the early 70’s, a guy in my high school had a ‘59 180D that was still solid as a rock. Of course, it was as slow as a sloth. But, when he was nice enough to give me a ride home, I wasn’t about to complain about the speed.

uplanderguy · March 2023

I wouldn’t have guessed this, but those Pontons seem smaller than even those early Larks.

uplanderguy · March 2023

Someone posted on my FB page, this pic of the interior of my '66, that I must've taken sometime last year as those repro floor mats in the original style were my Christmas gift in 2021. The original color would've been darker, but I still like them and am fortunate the vendor even had a turquoise. That interior color of my car is '66-only.

fintail · March 2023

There are two types of Pontons - smaller 4 cyl cars like the one above, these may be a similar size to a Lark:

And 6cyl cars, which are slightly larger (with one exception where a base I6 was put in a 4cyl platform, fintails follow the same logic) - the 6cyl car is also the basis for coupes/cabrios:

Stude upholstery looks to be of good quality, hard to go wrong with brocade (or is it a stamped vinyl? I remember the 66 Galaxie had embossing in the vinyl in sections) in that era.

uplanderguy · March 2023

It's brocade. Honestly, it's not very comfortable, LOL. I'm a fat guy but I bottom out in the driver's seat, and even in the back seat, when I sit there I feel, and hear, springs!

It looks nice in that size and price range for the day though.

Carl E. Filer Sr. drove a Ponton like the one in your bottom picture, black with red interior. Carl Jr. said he really liked it. I have a pic or two of it.

uplanderguy · March 2023

Studebaker International, biggest parts vendor, just posted that they found some of these in their stock. Funny how they would've ended up with them. I've seen this piece before; would be nice to add to my ephemera collection. They were sent to Stude owners after the March 1966 shutdown.

uplanderguy · March 2023

At a Sotheby's auction in 2012, was a Strato (dark) Blue '64 Commander four-door sedan with only 318 miles, that was sold new at Mathis in Atlantic City.

fintail · March 2023

Was the brocade the standard upholstery? That would be a higher spec item on most other cars.

I vividly recall looking at a 65 Caprice when I was maybe 18 or 19. I am sure I mentioned it before - it was a pristine silver and black car, 396, maybe 50K babied miles. I remember the seller (small town Chevy dealer) wanted maybe 6K for it, a princely sum for a young person at the time, but I thought it was a lovely car. I seem to remember it had a vinyl cloth inset interior, black with the cloth having a subtle brocade pattern, very nicely done. Maybe one of the pioneers of the brocade trend.

The last couple years of the big Ponton could be had with fuel injection and a semi-automatic transmission - those are the uncommon ones.

uplanderguy · March 2023

On the Cruiser, which is the model I have, brocade was standard and all-vinyl was optional at no-cost (I think). The seat choices were bench (like mine), 50/50 split bench with recliners, or bucket seats with console (only available in vinyl). In the cheaper Commander series, the interiors were much-more sober, LOL. The Daytona was available as only a two-door sedan with standard vinyl top, and the interior was the same as Cruiser but only available in vinyl.

For a Chevy product, a '65 Caprice was never often-seen. I like them. It was a mid-year option on only the Impala Sport Sedan (four-door hardtop). I remember the interior--very nice. And as you know, I think the '65 Chevy exterior was about perfect in every way.

uplanderguy · March 2023

Seen on FB this morning. January 1964.

Couple surprises in the pic. A '64 Rambler in the background, and that Hamilton was not using Studebaker tractor-trailers then as South Bend had.

Hamilton built convertibles and two-door hardtops through the end of the '64 model year, and the South Bend engine plant supplied Hamilton Studebaker-built engines through the end of the '64 model year.

I gotta say, I think the detail trim and styling features of the '64 and '65 are better than the '66 which I own.

uplanderguy · March 2023

Here’s my hometown dealer’s Ponton. He died in February ‘63.

uplanderguy · March 2023

I had posted this on another board here before, but something I didn't notice about my car until last year.

A guy at the South Bend international meet last year had a Bermuda Brown, Hamilton-built '64 Cruiser that was original. He showed me on the firewall where you could faintly see the word "BROWN" hand-printed--apparently a wax pencil or something that bled through after the body was painted.

I went home and looked at my car and noticed a faint "TURQ" in the same place. In the pic you see mostly the "URQ" but the "T" is visible; the letter is smaller though. Confirms that at least under-the-hood, the car is original paint, LOL, as I was told.

kyfdx · March 2023

That's wild..

uplanderguy · March 2023

Last Studebaker built this day, March 17, 1966. It's in the Studebaker National Museum. Here it is on the assembly line. Timberline Turquoise, white vinyl roof, black brocade 50/50 split reclining front seats. Disc brakes and transistorized ignition.

uplanderguy · March 2023

Early promo Avanti pic. Raymond Loewy, whose studio did the Avanti's styling, is the short guy in the right in the home, in a tux. Photo taken in Palm Springs, where the styling was done.

The Avanti was the first production car to reach 170 miles per hour.

The Avanti was the first production car to reach 170 miles per hour.

ab348 · March 2023

If you sort of squint at the picture above, the shadows and lighting can let you see what the Avanti would have looked like with a large, kind of triangular rear quarter window and a very thin C-pillar, almost like a later Ferrari of the '80s.

uplanderguy · March 2023

Not that it's a benefit necessarily, but the Avanti is the first car I can think of that had significant tuck-under at the bottom of the sides of the car. Only Studebaker to have curved side glass so there was a good bit of what was later called 'tumblehome'.

uplanderguy · March 2023

I find it interesting, or unusual, that management decided to hold onto the last car and was very specific as to colors and options. Here are a couple documents related to that car.

fintail · March 2023

Is there any reasoning known for the specs of that final car? Or just a suit's preference?

uplanderguy · March 2023

I've wondered that myself. Long story short, the above documents were bought on eBay by someone a few years back, from the family of a Stude employee. There is a handwritten page with colors and options noted and the original choice was Plum, a spring color which would've been striking IMHO. That's crossed out and "Turquoise" written over it.

I've heard that once the car got to South Bend, it was driven by an exec named Ed Dunbar. I wonder if he chose the colors and equipment. South Bend was very specific about the colors and equipment, odd.

The car was driven 19K miles and in 1969 was donated to the City of South Bend, with the snow tires still mounted on the car.

thebean · March 2023

I like turquoise on it. Especially in light of all the “non-colors” on modern cars today. I guess plum would have been distinctive also, but I’m partial to turquoise.

uplanderguy · March 2023

Short bio on the "T.A. Zenzinger" in the inter-office memo above, about the last car. This was sent to me by an acquaintance in the national club.

The guy started at Studebaker in 1927 and was still working there in 1966!

ab348 · March 2023

I googled his name and didn't find a whole lot, but did see that Indiana University has a "memory project" where they recorded audio interviews with a few dozen former Studebaker employees, Ted among them. Those would make for an interesting listen.

uplanderguy · March 2023

That would indeed be interesting.

There's a guy who probably worked his entire life at Studebaker. How frustrating it probably was to see it fade away.

I always think, when I'm in South Bend for a Studebaker event, that I'd hope those who hung in there right 'til the end would be appreciative of the Studebaker Drivers' Club for maintaining a good bit of enthusiasm for the marque.

A couple times over the years I'd met, briefly, a man named Otis Romine at meets out there. He was a big man with a personality that reminded me of Willard Scott. He started in the early '40's, went to war, and worked until Nov. '63. He was primarily a truck engineer but was also called upon to work on the Avanti project and had gone to Ashtabula, OH to work with MFG on body construction.

At a meet in '93 I think it was, he gave a brief but fascinating talk, and he looked out and thanked the audience for coming and being interested. He said, dead seriously, "You are all that's left of Studebaker". I know some people gulped if weren't a bit teary.

uplanderguy · March 2023

Nice '63 factory photo posted on FB today by the Studebaker National Museum.

fintail · March 2023

Probably the three most valuable non-Avanti models.

explorerx4 · March 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPUypVrvJxY

uplanderguy · March 2023

Thanks for posting. I can't find fault with anything he said.

He's right about the NOS and repro parts situation. That always has people surprised, including 'experts' who should know better.

imidazol97 · April 2023

Interesting video.

uplanderguy · April 2023

When he talks about the "wealth of knowledge they are willing to share with you", in the Studebaker Drivers' Club, I know he's including my late friend Bob Palma. That was him, through-and-through.

I liked the white wheels Stude used from '62 to '66, although they seem too bright white on this particular car in the video. Gives a bit of almost-whitewall-dress up, as opposed to the rest of the industry's monochrome look of body-colored wheels with dog-dish caps.

explorerx4 · April 2023

Here's another video I came across.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HA7mrT2fCE

uplanderguy · April 2023

Thanks for posting; that is one I had seen before. Steve identifies it near the end as a '64, but the rear view shows it's a '65; trim reshuffled in back.

UPDATE: Watched the whole thing again. He makes a few errors of fact. All 1964 Studebakers, even those made in Canada, had Studebaker-built engines from the South Bend engine plant. The car shown is a '65. Canadian cars with GM engines did not use Powerglide transmissions. Still, he means well.

Postwar Studebakers

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