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Thanks for the replys. I'll sleep easier and not be so worried about running this car past 200k. I've been following the 15k routine, given light highway driving (70 mi.i/day) is the principal use.
My mileage appears to be unaffected - if there is a mileage variation, it's got to be less than the accuracy of my tank to tank calculations, on the order of .25 mpg.
Any thoughts on 5-20 vs. 5-30?
My concerns are two: the 5-20 Ford spec includes extra wear/longevity tests (which Mobil 1 probably satisfies because it is full synthetic vs. the dino oils Ford was trying to upgrade by upgrading its spec); and
Now that Mobil 1 5-30 "normal" (not the extended formulation) satisfies the SM "low catalytic converter poisoning" requirement, will it be ok for my 150K warranty Focus PZEV engine? Or does it pose a risk of warranty exposure on teh converter?
As I think about this, I am wondering if I should just search harder for Mobil 1 5-20 which does specificaly satisfy the Ford specification.
Try Amsoil. This particular oil has the API doughnut on it and is rated for 7500 miles. I am not a dealer for Amsoil but have used their products for years.
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The link below show that the oil is API certified.
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Thanks
just got a new 06 titan and got only 81 miles on it. I plan to switch to synthetic soon but was wondering if i should change out the tranny fluid as well? Some of you may already know that new engines leave alot of metal deposits in the oil, so getting an early oil change may be a good idea. I just dont know if the transmission leaves these deposits as well. Thanks..
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As for the trans, leave it alone for now.
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BTW, the only dumb question is the one you never ask. Only smart people ask questions.
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If one has a busy schedule and don't want to take time to change the oil or take the car in to have it done synthetics makes sense , even if you only run it out 3k more miles for some owners that might be three months or more . A good synthetic can go 12 months and 5k miles without a filter change under certain conditions .
A never ending debate for certain because of all the different engines , driving styles ect .
Since i have a high reving engine (if i remember correctly i think it's about 305hp/379torque max), even if i VERY gently press down on the pedal, my engine would rev up pretty darn quick and high.
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The engine oil as long as it is the correct viscosity for the ambient does not need heat built into it as much as the connecting rods , wrist pins and piston skirts do .
Thermal expansion of the internal parts . It takes some time for the above to get properly heated in colder temps / ambient of say 35F and below .
If an oil meets or exceeds the SM GF4 standard, does it matter what brand it is, or what company makes it? From what I understand, this is a tough standard to meet and any oil that does is some darn good oil. Tell me what's wrong with this approach.
1. There are no independent tests; each oil company self-certifies.
2. The standard is heavily influenced by small oil refiners who want to use cheap base stock oils and perenially threaten to sue the standards boards on antitrust grounds if they make the standard so hard to meet that cheap base oil stocks can no longer be used.
3. The standard is heavily weighted towards maximizing fuel economy and catalytic converter life (with converters cheapened down to use fewer precious metals). The standard is gravitating towards removing long-proven anti-wear additives in favor of un-proven additives.
4. The standard is heavily influenced by the do-it-yourself industry in America which is influenced by the auto chains desire to sell 99 cent oil (or at least keep it down to $1.49 a quart).
Also witness the proliferation of "competing standards" - the Ford WSS spec's for 30 weight and 20 weight oil (the 20 weight spec calls for a double time wear test in lieu of the SAE test); the "Japanese valve train wear" requirements (heavy wear on high pressure cam lobes); the BMW, Chevy, etc. special requirements. Some of these balkanized standards may be satisfied by the new SM GF4 standard, but new issues may come up when manufacturers start to see lubrication related issues (sludging? high wear spots?).
In short, there are conflicts of interest across the board in terms of "normalizing" oil. The anti-wear, high performance advocates vs. the cheap oil people vs. the high gas mileage people vs. the long emissions control warranty people.
That's why a lot of us prefer to use full synthetics from companies with long, long track records in this area (when they say "exceeds requirements" you can believe it); or why some of us wonder what might be good in non-SM "high mileage" formulations; or might be good in a diesel forumlation (Rotella synthetic); or might be good in a European high performance/extended drain change formulation (German Castrol 0-30, Mobil 1 0-40).
If you have a pushrod engine with low rpm capability, any SM GF4 oil is probably fine if you follow the "severe" or 3,000 mile service cycle and don't drive hard, tow anything, idle a lot, etc.
IMHO, the SM etc. standards are so messed up I think it is more important than ever to buy the best oil from the best companies.
(By "messed up," I mean, for example that in order to make the best possible product - Mobil 1 Extended Performance - Mobil has actually decided NOT to go for SM/GF4 certification! Read their website. And Rotella T also foregoes SM certification - it is only SL; its additives protect the engine better, at the possible expense of catalytic converter life. That having been said, check your owner's manual for oil requirement - SL or SM - and during your warranty period select a "super oil" accordingly, like regular Mobil 1 full synthetic.)
The Mobil 1 website says 5-30 fully synthetic satisfies this requirement; no such statement for the 5-30 Extended Performance version.
(Of course the Chrysler spec might be circular - a requirement to satisfy the then-current API classification; this would avoid the problems with manuals that get out of date and angry consumers that can't find SJ or SL oils....)
Google can't find me the actual meaning of the Chrysler spec....
"The reason I was aking was because Wal-Mart's Supertech oil is considerably less expensive than the name brand oils and it says it meets the SM GF4 spec. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the jug also said it meets the SL spec as well. Would this be a good oil?"
Here's my thinking. For single moms and students on a budget, the cheapest oil change at Walmart (about $13) is a steal - they use Supertech oil, and a Supertech oil filter. If they stick with 3,000 mile oil changes, there is no complicated calculation of time, distance, type of driving. (I think but I am not sure on this budget oil change package that) Walmart tops off the fluids and checks the tire pressure. All Safety 101. My thinking is that it's better to advise a budget driver to get one of these inexpensive oil changes regularly - really regularly - than for them to defer a lube shop oil change for $35 due to the price difference.
Also, Walmart will sell you an air filter (not push an air filter on you) or light bulbs at the over the counter price (and its Walmart, so its cheap) and install them for free. At lube shops, the techs are all "sales people" and push people, like my mom, with unnecessary parts and whacked out services (like a transmission flush on a 10,000 mile car!).
For a couple of dollars more, you can get a full service Pennzoil oil change at Walmart. That full service package, which is really the "standard" package at Walmart, definitely includes the fluid top off and tire pressure check and is under $20 as I recall (much cheaper than lube shops). You get Pennzoil instead of no-name Supertech oil (used to be rumors that Supertech oil was private label Pennzoil, but some sleuths tracked down the real supplier as a regional refiner in the South). This is the service and product I'd recommend to you, since you care enough to post and ask here, but are dubious of synthetic oil/brand name difference claims. Pennzoil is one of the top dino base stock oils you can get and has a lot of fans even among those who post on oil websites. Once again it is probably better to stick with 3,000 or 4,000 mile oil changes, since dino based oils tend to lose some viscoscity (thin out) over as little as 3,000 miles.
Finally, if you like to take the best possible care of your car, a lot of us feel that full synthetic oil can't be beat, and it isn't even that costly to use, since you generally easily extend the drain interval to 5,000 miles. For a long time when I was on a budget, I stayed away from lube shops and dealers but used Walmart for their $30 or so full synthetic oil change, a bargain if you specify Mobil 1, which is about $21 worth of oil alone. Of course, extending service intervals assumes you check fluid levels and tire pressure yourself, since the average mileage for many people is about 12,000 miles a year and 6 months or so is a long time to go without some of those basic safety checks. Tires lose pressure at about an average rate of a pound a month, so don't underestimate the importance of sending single moms to Walmart on 3 month/3,000 mile intervals.
Well, that's just my thinking, and of course YMMV.
I currently use Havoline dino (with PureOne filters) and it has shown very good UOAs even at 5K miles. From everything I've read on the internet about oil, there are several dinos that are good for 5K-6K. IMHO, the only tangible benefit from running synthetics is extended OCIs and better flow rates during cold starts. I personally don't like leaving oil in the engine for that many miles (simply because it gets so black), even though I know it's not hurting anything. I prefer to change my oil and filter every 5K miles and keep it a bit cleaner.
I was asking about the Supertech oil for several reasons;
1. Everyone knows that all store brand oils are produced and bottled by one of the brand name companies, though it's not always easy to find out which one.
2. There isn't a lot of info on the web about this oil and given that it meets or exceeds all of the most current ratings, I wanted to find out more about it.
3. It costs about $3 less per 5 qt jug than does the Havoline.
I'm very happy with the Havoline, but if the same protection could be had for a lower price, I'm all for it. From what I've seen so far, I'm not ready to give up the Havoline for the Supertech.
You said, in part:
IMHO, the only tangible benefit from running synthetics is extended OCIs and better flow rates during cold starts
Almost, but not quite - it also sludges less easily, and shears less easily. Plus, synthetics are usually "premium" and come with better additive packs. For these reasons I feel much more comfortable with it than dino oil. That having been said, a lot of people seem to do fine with 5,000 mile oil changes on modern dino oil, but I think it also depends on 1. how hard you drive (redline with a stick shift?); 2. driving conditions (under 30 degrees, over 90 degrees; stop and go; idling; dusty); 3. what kind of motor design you have - pushrod, understressed motor, or double overhead cam design with high pressure areas - or gear driven camshaft (rare) with high shear factor, chain driven with some shear, or easy going non-lubed external belt drive.
A lot of people on "that other oil site" swear by Halvoline, and I understand it has one of the best prices around. But I wouldn't give it up for Supertech. You are applying a lot of brain power and analysis to cut corners, rather than double up on engine longevity, which surprises me!
So, over time, more of this stuff is in our oil, and staying there. Absent a bypass oil filter, the only way to get it "out" is via an oil changes; thus 3,000 mile oil changes are better than 5,000, or 7,500, or 10,000 etc.
Of course, what is the life of a car? 100-150K? Diesel big rigs go several hundred thousand miles routinely, then get overhauled and keep running...but to do that, you need really great air filters (to keep small particles out) and a by pass filter (to remove small particles that get in anyway).
Oh yeah - one last "synthetic" advantage. I understand that some synthetics have a sort of "magnetic" quality - it isn't really magnetic, but it clings like it is - and leave a fine film on parts even when sitting overnight or overweek - unlike regular oil which can seep off pistons and valves. This is the reason why "most" engine wear occurs at startup, not during running. Castrol actually has a new dino motor oil
gimmickbrand that boasts of the same "magnetic" quality. That having been said, if you have a high ratio of driving to starting up, like a long commute, I doubt the "start-ups" will matter in the course of 100-150 k.Finally, a friend has a second hand Honda Accord that had 100,000 miles on it when he bought it, and now has 140,000 - and it hasn't had the greatest care in the world, certainly not on his watch, he tries to put synthetic in but if he is pinched for dough, puts in dino, but he still goes about 10-12k between oil changes, because he hates taking it in - he is the opposite of most of us, and the darn thing still runs fine. So I think a lot of it is in the build-quality!
http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/g1971/index.aspx
In the testing, havoline is behind castrol in many of those testings. havoline does contain a high content of moly... could it be known that moly can help seal/seat better for wear-in periods?
Im currently using havoline dino 5w30 with pureone filter during my postwear-in until i reach around 4k miles (currently at 1650 miles).
i plan on switching to synthetic just because i want to keep my engine clean and better cold-startup.
Get it from CSK, redeem the coupons, send in for the rebates, save a bundle. At under $1 per quart, purchased the way I have outlined, you get the best bang for the buck on the market today. Here in the Mountain West, we get this deal offered to us frequently in the Sunday advertising supplements to the local newspapers. I hope other areas get the same opportunity.
The Ram making the noise would alarm me as well. If you are sure you have the right filter number, I will tell you that I have great faith in Wix products. The engine is rather new, so I wonder if the valve train made the noise, while the oil pressure was low and the oil had not pumped up yet. I think you're wise to check this out with the dealer. You may have a need for warranty coverage if this is serious. I'll bet in advance that it is not the harbinger of trouble.
For example, my old accord had the oil filter mounted horizontally. My new ride have the oil filter mounted on a downward slant. I would have to use oil filters with the anti-drainback valve.
I dont know if all oil filters have anti-drainback valves, but im helping right? haha
More important is to preserve your warranty. Dealer oil changes do that the best. There are a lot of non-required "services" and "service upgrades" and "we treat every driver like a severe conditions driver" maintenance stuff I skip, but I try to have dealer oil changes (with my own walk in oil, and usually my own walk in filter; judging from the reaction of the service writer, this is pretty common these days).
I also ask for the empty oil bottle back to be sure my Mobil 1 isn't going home with the mechanic, with "bulk oil" going into my car....
Personally, I would consider it to be an insult.
Personally, I would consider it to be an insult.
I bring my own synth oil in to my dealer; the tech usually asks if I want the containers back without any prompting on my part. I never take 'em.
Would it be a good idea to coat the gasket with oil also? I saw many mechanics dont follow up on this method... some people i know said not to do it also because it causes the oil to 'burn' on the gasket or what not and makes it difficult to remove... what's everyone's thought on this?
Well, i've been hearing alot about startup wear... which can affect the engine performance etc.
Ok i see there's two ways to this... 1)since we changed out the oil/filter and start it up and NOT driving... i guess it wont cause any damage... the oil is just simply going through the parts of then engine...
2) There's a term i hear thats called "dry startup", since we changed the oil/filter, there's no oil in the engine... therefore startup right after oil changeup may increase wear? I hear some people put some oil in the new oil filter before mounting, to prevent the term "dry startup".
Which one of these two would fit to you guys? I'd say number 1, but please speculate and let the schooling begin!!
Plus... normally after changing the oil and driving for a few miles, i turn off the car and try to add some more/needed oil, when twisting off the oil cap on top of the engine, i usually see smoke coming out, normal thing correct?