Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2

akenaten · April 2006

Thanks.

roper2 · April 2006

Are these new oils any good.Have very many people on here used them before? I was thinking about useing them for 4k oil changes in a Ram 2005 v6. thanks

bottgers · April 2006

I don't know much about these oils, but I do know they're more expensive than the Havoline I use and I already know the Havoline is good for at least 6K OCI's in my application so I can't see spending the extra money for the Mobil.

pisces01 · April 2006

since i posted the oil question several months ago , my car just stopped on me in 2/06. once it was towed to a mechanic he said it was the timing change and would cost 500 to 700.00 or more to fix. before this i took my car to Aamco to see what the check engine code was. it was a EGR code/valve that had to do with the gas being put back in the system. well, aamco must have unplugged the system so the check engine wouldn't come on but the Check gauges light would come on and the oil pressure gauge would drop all the way down to empty (but i had oil already). this went on for 2 weeks after Aamco checked it and my car died out.

AAmco said i might need a transmission which would start at $900.00 to 1500.00. my car is 94 cougar with 67,000 miles but the odometer stopped working almost a year ago. the car has several minor things that is needed (sway bar, tire rod, upper and lower control arm, passenger power window is going out). know needed done.

i don't know if i want to invest alot of stuff in this car and it will keep breaking on me since i don't have that kind of money to waste.

i'm thinking about looking at the hyudai accent, ion saturn 3, kia rio next week.

charleytampa · May 2006

Hey guys,

I have a manual corolla S that is nearing its first oil change. Traditionally, I've always owned rather high mileage vehicles and I'd change my own oil. That being said, I have a few questions I'm hoping someone can help me with:

(1) I'm gathering that on these new engines, full synthetic is better for gas mileage and in general. Any suggestions as to which one? I drive about 90% city mileage by downtown Tampa, FL.

(2) How much should an oil change and tire rotation cost, with full synthetic?

(3) If I choose to do the oil change myself, does anyone know how to turn off the engine maintenance light that I believe will soon turn on?

Thanks. I prefer to chnage my own oil, but since I now live in an apartment with no garage it's difficult. I really do miss the country...

vcheng · May 2006

1. Use Mobil1 10w-30 in 5 quart jugs (about $22 at Walmart) and genuine Toyota filter (about $4 online) if you are doing your own.

2. A full synthetic change will run you about $50 commercially, and about the same for a tire rotation.

3. Check the manual. I think that it is something like press and hold the odometer reset button as you turn the ignition on. It is in the manual for sure.

charleytampa · May 2006

thanks, Vcheng. I appreciate your input.

Tell me, that $22 oil, is that dino or synthetic?

vcheng · May 2006

full synthetic (not the EP, but the regular supersyn variety).

Dino 5 quart jugs are as low as $8-15 at WallyWorld.

You are welcome.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2006

I hope your expectations for increased fuel mileage aren't too great....perhaps 1-3% is what you should expect....so if you get 20 mpg you might see 20.5. Yep, it all helps, that's true. I'm gonna do it once my engine hits about 10,000 miles. The gas saving will just about pay for the synthetic, (I figure $50 a year) and then I'll have the additional benefits of synthetic for "free".

jeffyscott · May 2006

I just paid $73 for 10,000 mile service on a VW Jetta (actually $63 as I had $10 coupon). This is synthetic oil change, tire rotation, brake inspection and a couple other minor inspections/checks.

Price varies, the other nearby VW dealer wanted $120 for the same service.

altair4 · May 2006

IIRC, the Toyota Corolla S manual recommends 5w-30 viscosity.

charleytampa · May 2006

I was told about five to ten percent, since syn is much more viscous thand the dino, so the engine strains less. But hey, 3% of 30 mpg is still one extra mile per gallon or so....

either way, 30 is still disappointing since I purposely drive like a friggin snail...
thanks for all your help, however.

vcheng · May 2006

Yes, but I was going by the fact that he is in Florida, and the lower level of Viscosity Improvers in the 10W-30 would be better overall in that situation.

The 5W-30 would work perhaps just as well.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2006

well who knows you might do better. Actually, driving like a snail might not be the optimal way to get the best fuel mileage.

charleytampa · May 2006

you're right. I should have clarified. When I say I drive like a snail, I mean I shift before 3k rpms, and I don't zip around corners like a man possessed. ie I actually go the speed limit!

Thanks for the advice.

But one last question: when I go to get an oil change, can I bring the oil and filter? and watch as they rotate the tires? thanks, since I've never actually paid someone to change my oil and I'm actually rather nervous for some odd reason. I may just go ahead and do it myself, I dunno...

Mr_Shiftright · May 2006

I suppose you could bring the oil and filter by prior arrangement. I wouldn't just show up with them, though. I think if you are bringing your car to a place where you have to watch them put an oil filter on, this is already a bad sign.

highroller · May 2006

I think that if you have some free time and if the oil change on your particular vehicle is somewhat easy to do for you, then i'd go with the self-service on your oil/filter change.

krzyss · May 2006

"I don't zip around corners"

Well, if you do want to save fuel you want to carry as much speed in turn as possible.

Krzys

bottgers · May 2006

You're only getting 30 MPG with your Corolla? Is that highway or combined mileage? My '99 Corolla 5 speed gets 35 combined and 39 highway on regular dino. Our secretary has an '03 Corolla with a 5 speed that she says gets over 40 MPG with on the highway. If 30 is the best you can get with your's, there may be something wrong with it and you may want to have it looked at.

charleytampa · May 2006

30 is combined, but i drive 85-95 percent city.

I've been racking my brains as to what the issue can be. The best thing I can think of is that I only drive about two to five miles at a time, so the engine really doesn't have a chance to warm up and get going.

When the car was brand new, it got 40 mpg driving with two people and two suitcases at 75-80 mph on cruise control.

div2 · May 2006

The best thing I can think of is that I only drive about two to five miles at a time, so the engine really doesn't have a chance to warm up and get going.

That's exactly what the problem is; short trips which allow little or no opportunity for the engine to reach operating temperature will simply kill fuel mileage.

charleytampa · May 2006

ah, well, then, I'm screwed.

thanks for your input, however.

micweb · May 2006

30 mpg in essentially city cycle driving is actually superb. When Consumer Reports used their flow meter to "real world" test the 2003 Corolla with 4 speed automatic, they got these numbers:

CU's overall mileage, mpg 29
CU's city/highway, mpg 20/39
CU's 150-mile trip, mpg 35

Please note that you are getting closer to Consumer Report's overall mileage, than their city figure.

highroller · May 2006

If it's possible for you everytime you drive, take a longer route so that the engine oil can be properly warm up to operating temps.

jeffyscott · May 2006

I think CR's city driving must represent driving represents pretty close to the worst case...like NYC, Chicago, Atlanta type stop and go traffic.

For people in citys with more freely flowing traffic, I think the EPA city number is more accurate. Driving in non-congested suburban type of area, we generally get around halfway between EPA city and highway numbers in our daily commutes.

rhiebert · May 2006

My Owner's Manual refers to short tips has "extreme", therefore needs more frequent service, ie. oil changes with petroleum based motor oil. I would qualify that with superior synthetics and superior filters allow for superior protection for such short trips.

micweb · May 2006

Yeah, that's my take on it.

highroller · May 2006

Funny thing when i think about short trips is that many people or population in the city/subs area do alot of these "extreme" drivings every day. i tend to think that this extremity will quickly KILL the oil in less than 3000 mile intervals. Therefore, i also tend to believe that most of these people should of used synthetics for better protection year-round. Although im not an advocate for syn oil usage, i do like how they protect better for short trips and in other areas vs dino.

wtd44 · May 2006

The hydrocracked mineral oils, such as Chevron and its Havoline are very good bets for engine protection, especially if you change the oil and filter after shorter mileage, such as 3000 to 4000.

charleytampa · May 2006

hey guys,

I know this is the oil forum and not the mpg forum, so this'll be my last post on this topic: i drove about 50 miles, highway, with cruise control on 65-70 much of the time, as well as about five miles congested.

averaged 39.9 miles per gallon, with about 300 pounds of passenger and luggage.

so at least I know it's the short city driving that's draggin the mileage down.

I took a peek at the oil, however, and it does seem as if the city driving is rough on it.

thanks for your input. I'm going to put syn in from now on and not take chances.

rhiebert · May 2006

Using any synthetic is not getting the job done unless you use better than average air & oil filters, in fact it's almost a waste of money unless you do.

shipo · May 2006

What scientific studies are you basing your claims on?

FWIW, I cannot think of a singly reason why the air filter would have anything at all to do with how well synthetic oil performs in a car.

Best Regards,
Shipo

imidazol97 · May 2006

You beat me to it.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2006

I'd agree that the air filter shouldn't make any difference, but I do know that certain types of oil filters are very bad for certain types of cars (e.g., Audis hate aftermarket filters and won't run right with them installed). But an OEM oil filter should work well on any car that's true.

wtd44 · May 2006

I suspect you are not jesting. Could you expand on that?

Mr_Shiftright · May 2006

No, it's true. On certain modern Audis, if you use a Walmart filter or some such the hydraulic lifters will collapse and you'll lose one or more cylinders.

Seeing is believing. I saw an Audi stagger into my friend's shop--he saw the "Fairview" oil filter or whatever it was, swapped it out and bingo, car ran fine.

micweb · May 2006

Walmart sells Supertech filters as its house brand. They are made by Champion Labs and are among the best filters made. I have used them for years in preference to Fram. The are also sold as STP filters or, in an upgraded form, as Bosch and Mobil 1. Their latest filter media (even on the very inexpensive Supertech line) filters a little more finely than most makers (although Purolator's Pure One is still tops in micro filtration, though I had some start up engine noise with one on a Neon, indicating the anti-drain back wasn't up to snuff).

If the specifications manual ok's use on a certain car, absent an unannounced running change by the manufacturer of the car, it will work, the liability is too great to advertise that a filter will work when it won't. What might have happened, is mounting a filter that "looked" like the right size, but wasn't designed for that application (the Audi). And yes, that can lead to problems.

On an unrelated note, the new displacement on demand systems in new cars (use oil pressure to activate/deactivate some of the combustion cylinders) are reportedly very sensitive to the oil thickness - so using the recommended viscoscity is mandatory, not optional - for those who like to put 20-50 or 10-40 in everything, this will create problems.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2006

If it's not made by Audi, don't use it, that's the safest course of action. This wasn't a one time occurrence--it's a regular malady with Audis. You have to see it to believe it, but there it is.

Which non OEM filters screw up and which don't, I don't know.

arjay1 · June 2006

Which Audi engine has this issue with the oil filter? If it is the 1.8t, would that then also carry over to the VW engines as well?

Mr_Shiftright · June 2006

it was the V-6 if I recall.

shelley2 · June 2006

There seems to be rather alot of oil coming into the air filter and casing, and I have now cleaned the two breather pipes out. They were a bit sludgy and all the spark plugs were a nice fawn colour so I'm not sure why it's coming up there. Any ideas?

Mr_Shiftright · June 2006

clogged PCV valve comes to mind.

bremertong · June 2006

I own a 2004 cadillac Deville with 32,000 miles on it. Last changed the oil in February and a little over 3000 miles of driving since. My car has an oil life indicator showing 75% of oil life remaining. Am considering waiting five months or until oil life indicator shows 50% of oil life remaining. 2/3rds of my driving is highway and 1/3rd city, all on paved roads. Do other owners with oil life indicators give any importance to the oil indicators so far as oil change frequency is concerned? Any comments and input appreciated.

gonogo · June 2006

I change at 5 K, the oil life has about 35% to 40 % left. The closest I came was the end of winter, at 5K the oil life was 19 %, so it does take into account cold weather, 3 K is really too soon for the modern fuel injected engine, 5 K is more realistic.

shipo · June 2006

Based upon your post one would assume that you are using non-Synthetic oil. Yes, no?

Best Regards,
Shipo

shelley2 · June 2006

Thankyou so much; I shall endeavour to find this PCV valve and sort it out!

bremertong · June 2006

Thank you for your reply. Yes I am using non synthetic oil.

bremertong · June 2006

Thanks for your reply, I had been changing at four months or four thousand miles, the 5,000 mile five month is more sensible I think. Suspect I will only have driven 4000 miles at five months.

kkollwitz · June 2006

All 3 cars in my household use 5w-30 oil....during the summer, may I safely use SAE 30, either 100% or some portion when I change oil, e.g., 1 quart SAE 30 and 4 of 5w-30?

See, at some point last year I wasn't paying attention and bought a case of SAE 30 instead of 5w-30.....

micweb · June 2006

Don't abuse your car, donate that single weight oil. The only application it's good for is a taxi that never shuts off....even then, single grades are built for one purpose, cheapness, not for performance.

Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2

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