Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

tjc78 · July 10

@ab348 said:
Dark days continue at Volvo, with 60 employees let go at the Mahwah, NJ HQ today as part of a global 15% workforce reduction: https://carbuzz.com/volvo-cutting-us-workforce-july-2025/

It would be nice if they resign a few models. They are all pretty old designs at this point. I had a 2020 XC90 and it’s still the same design.

oldfarmer50 · July 10

kyfdx said:
Local FB ad for a 2001 Lexus LX. 299K miles. Same owner since 2003. Appears to be overdue for a timing belt/water pump. Looks really good in pictures. $5500.

I low-key want this

One too many zeros in that price.😢

oldfarmer50 · July 10

Michaell said:
Passport, another Outback. Not hybrids but fit the bill. Not sure where a 4xe Grand Cherokee would come in price wise but with your trade it might get close.

I do like the Passport a whole lot, and the Ridgeline for that matter, and I like that they both come with a good old fashioned V6 in them. The Ridgeline can be had for $40K-ish, but the Passport is creeping up to the $50K level in the trim I like (Trailsport). Perhaps another look at other trim levels - and interior colors - is warranted.

Not certain I'd want another Outback. Been there, done that with Subaru - and, I've read that the latest iteration of their infotainment system is a bit buggy.

Last year Lexus ES. Hybrid or V6, the choice is yours.

I have always had a soft spot for the ES. I'll have to do some research on pricing for some that are a few years old with 25-40K on the odometer.

My first suggestion would be to try to sell your spouse on an AWD Camry hybrid in the luxury XLE level. Your Colorado climate, and the fact that you're both used to AWD, makes that $1500 AWD option on the Camry a good idea from my pov. If you skip the other options that would mean an msrp of about $37k

My second suggestion, if you can't sell your wife on a fun-to-drive sedan, would be a Subaru Forester Hybrid Premium, which has an msrp of $38k

I do like the fact that the Camry is available with AWD - it seems like my plan to move somewhere warmer is a non-starter with the wife. Of the cars I've mentioned, I'm looking at the top trim level - spoil myself. For the Camry, that would be the XSE trim, which stickers at about $42K equipped the way I want.

I've looked briefly at the Forester hybrid, and am intrigued by it - Sarah 'n' Tuned had a review of one recently, and she really liked it, because it's the rare hybrid that isn't paired with a CVT. Not sure about the size, compared to the other SUVs I'm considering.

We were at a Ford deal today and they had a Maverick on the floor for $37k. If you can get a Ridgeline for $40k I’d jump on it. Nice combination of size and reliability.

au1994 · July 10

$9900 with 2h left if you are not watching….

Michaell · July 10

oldfarmer50 said:
“ and, likely, at my age, to be the last car we get (gasp!). ”

That’s what I said when I turned 70 but I was wrong.

That gives me hope!

Michaell · July 10

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:
Passport, another Outback. Not hybrids but fit the bill. Not sure where a 4xe Grand Cherokee would come in price wise but with your trade it might get close.

I do like the Passport a whole lot, and the Ridgeline for that matter, and I like that they both come with a good old fashioned V6 in them. The Ridgeline can be had for $40K-ish, but the Passport is creeping up to the $50K level in the trim I like (Trailsport). Perhaps another look at other trim levels - and interior colors - is warranted.

Not certain I'd want another Outback. Been there, done that with Subaru - and, I've read that the latest iteration of their infotainment system is a bit buggy.

Last year Lexus ES. Hybrid or V6, the choice is yours.

I have always had a soft spot for the ES. I'll have to do some research on pricing for some that are a few years old with 25-40K on the odometer.

My first suggestion would be to try to sell your spouse on an AWD Camry hybrid in the luxury XLE level. Your Colorado climate, and the fact that you're both used to AWD, makes that $1500 AWD option on the Camry a good idea from my pov. If you skip the other options that would mean an msrp of about $37k

My second suggestion, if you can't sell your wife on a fun-to-drive sedan, would be a Subaru Forester Hybrid Premium, which has an msrp of $38k

I do like the fact that the Camry is available with AWD - it seems like my plan to move somewhere warmer is a non-starter with the wife. Of the cars I've mentioned, I'm looking at the top trim level - spoil myself. For the Camry, that would be the XSE trim, which stickers at about $42K equipped the way I want.

I've looked briefly at the Forester hybrid, and am intrigued by it - Sarah 'n' Tuned had a review of one recently, and she really liked it, because it's the rare hybrid that isn't paired with a CVT. Not sure about the size, compared to the other SUVs I'm considering.
We were at a Ford deal today and they had a Maverick on the floor for $37k. If you can get a Ridgeline for $40k I’d jump on it. Nice combination of size and reliability.

Sadly, my memory is failing me. Took another look and the trim I want (RTL) is $46-47k

kyfdx · July 10

oldfarmer50 said:
“ and, likely, at my age, to be the last car we get (gasp!). ”

That’s what I said when I turned 70 but I was wrong.

Everyone says that.. but, really? A 65 yr old friend bought a new Forester last year and said that would probably be her last car.

kyfdx · July 10

@tifighter $10,500 with 90 minutes to go

Michaell · July 10

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:
“ and, likely, at my age, to be the last car we get (gasp!). ”

That’s what I said when I turned 70 but I was wrong.
Everyone says that.. but, really? A 65 yr old friend bought a new Forester last year and said that would probably be her last car.

You let me know when you're ready to cut the GTI loose, and I'll fly to CVG and drive it back to CO.

tifighter · July 10

Under an hour. A lot of new bidders with little to no history.

benjaminh · July 10

kyfdx said:

40 is a percentage of the width of that tire

235/40 = 94 millimeter of sidewall
205/65 = 133.25 millimeter of sidewall
225/55 = 123.75 millimeter of sidewall

It's entirely width X percentage. The diameter of the wheel measurement has no effect.

Thanks lol! I knew that once but glitched big time lol.

explorerx4 · July 10

@tifighter,
Back from the pool with the grandkids.
Getting toward last half hour unless there is overtime, which I'm sure you are hoping for.
I noticed that about the bidders, only 1 has ever won an auction.
Things are looking pretty good.

stickguy · July 10

I'm older than Michael by a few years and I hope to get at least another 10 in. Especially if I start buying used stuff again!

I think my father got his current car when he was 91.

stickguy · July 10

Mavericks and Ridgelines can get close on MSRP but as is often the case between size classes, that would be a base Ridgeline vs. a loaded Maverick. Same way a loaded Ranger probably stickers for what a bare bones F150 goes for.

and not everyone buys by the sq.ft. Bigger is not always better!

stickguy · July 10

over 12K now. last half hour so time for the real action.

explorerx4 · July 10

Time to jump on the hype train!

stickguy · July 10

now the action is popping!

stickguy · July 10

back up to what it sold for last time (well, $1 short)

explorerx4 · July 10

@tifighter,
That was fun to watch. You did well considering you bought in 2022, which was a high market.

clm8 · July 10

My father bought himself an E Silverado for his 91st birthday last year. He said it would probably be his last truck.

tifighter · July 10

Thanks. I put some money into it, of course. But I got 3 years of use out of it, and did a PNW trail with it that I always wanted to do. So I feel pretty good about the result.

kyfdx · July 10

SOMEONE pegged that price.

tifighter · July 10

@kyfdx said:
SOMEONE pegged that price.

Shoot, why didn’t you say $19K???

xwesx · July 10

Haha, @kyfdx. That was very impressive, indeed!

sda · July 10

@kyfdx said:
SOMEONE pegged that price.

What was the final price?

corvette · July 10

sda said:
What was the final price?

kyfdx · July 10

sda said:

@kyfdx said:

SOMEONE pegged that price.

What was the final price?

$16,750

nyccarguy · July 10

@kyfdx said:
$16,750

Bravo @tifighter ! Well done! I left work and it was still at $9,400. I open it up later in the evening and it shot up to $16,750! Great job!

Were you watching the whole time watching it unfold in real time?

fintail · July 10

I haven't watched Hoovie in a long while either (but I did catch DeMuro's recent take on a W123 300D, the commentary had as many quirks and features as the car if not more).

I might be scared of the EQS unless it had a really good warranty, pretty complex and they are known to be expensive to insure and eat tires.

graphicguy said:
Stopped being a Hoovie fan a while ago. Every once in a while

I'll check his channel out. Found this one interesting.

3 year old Mercedes EQS for $34K. I'd bite if I found one at that price.

tifighter · July 10

nyccarguy said:

@kyfdx said:

$16,750

Bravo @tifighter ! Well done! I left work and it was still at $9,400. I open it up later in the evening and it shot up to $16,750! Great job!

Were you watching the whole time watching it unfold in real time?

The last hour and ten minutes I was watching pretty consistently. It was feeling a little slow to that point, but the last hour got it done. I did try to work up the group with comments and photos.

Michaell · July 10

@tifighter said:
The last hour and ten minutes I was watching pretty consistently. It was feeling a little slow to that point, but the last hour got it done. I did try to work up the group with comments and photos.

I watched the last 15 or so minutes live and loved the pictures you dropped into the comments. Loved the outcome!

28firefighter · July 10

The Porsche has been back at the dealer getting the convertible top repaired under the we-owe, so I’ve been driving an i5 eDrive40 all week out of their loaner fleet. This one, actually: https://www.bmwlynnwood.com/new-Lynnwood-2024-BMW-i5-eDrive40-WBY33FK08RCS02227

At first this thing felt like (and looks like) an absolute boat. But I gotta say, it’s absolutely delightful to drive around and live with day-to-day. The seats are incredible, it’s quick, handles reasonably well, and the tech is fantastic. I’ve been using DA Pro on my commute and it is darn impressive, particularly the lane change. Build quality is also very very good and I love the high quality feel.

On the downside, it’s SO big. Like, so big it’s longer than the Jeep and won’t fit in our garage. It also is not helped being in white - makes look even more standout.

kyfdx · July 11

tifighter said:

nyccarguy said:

@kyfdx said:

$16,750

Bravo @tifighter ! Well done! I left work and it was still at $9,400. I open it up later in the evening and it shot up to $16,750! Great job!

Were you watching the whole time watching it unfold in real time?

The last hour and ten minutes I was watching pretty consistently. It was feeling a little slow to that point, but the last hour got it done. I did try to work up the group with comments and photos.

You did a nice job..

benjaminh · July 11

A fully loaded Camry XSE with AWD has a list price of $42k. Theoretically for just $1300 more you can get a similarly equipped LEXUS ES 250 with AWD. The interior of the Lexus is nicer, the exterior styling is better, it comes with a longer warranty, etc. But the reality is that It doesn't seem like there are any Lexus dealers in the US that stock the base model ES, and so the real price difference in going up to a Lexus is more like 5k-7k. But perhaps there's a small chance the base model Lexus could be special ordered? An all-new 2026 ES is about to be introduced, but the styling is not my cup of tea.

https://pressroom.lexus.com/reimagining-the-luxury-sedan-the-all-new-2026-lexus-es/

28firefighter · July 11

After my current dealer experience helping my FIL get a Lexus, I think I’ll go with a Toyota any day. Goodness.

kyfdx · July 11

I don't think the ES250 is a hybrid. Only the ES300h

Michaell · July 11

@kyfdx said:
I don't think the ES250 is a hybrid. Only the ES300h

Correct - just the regular 2.5 NA 4-cylinder.

jmonroe1 · July 11

oldfarmer50 said:
“ and, likely, at my age, to be the last car we get (gasp!). ”

That’s what I said when I turned 70 but I was wrong.

————————————————
Was that the first time? About cars, I mean.

jmonroe

tifighter · July 11

@tifighter said:
Today is the two month anniversary for the Lexus. We still have over half of the original tank of gas over about 1100 miles. On pace for about three to four tanks per year, I guess.

We finally dropped one bar below a half tank today. At 2000 miles.

greg1288 · July 11

benjaminh said:
A fully loaded Camry XSE with AWD has a list price of $42k. Theoretically for just $1300 more you can get a similarly equipped LEXUS ES 250 with AWD. The interior of the Lexus is nicer, the exterior styling is better, it comes with a longer warranty, etc. But the reality is that It doesn't seem like there are any Lexus dealers in the US that stock the base model ES, and so the real price difference in going up to a Lexus is more like 5k-7k. But perhaps there's a small chance the base model Lexus could be special ordered? An all-new 2026 ES is about to be introduced, but the styling is not my cup of tea.

https://pressroom.lexus.com/reimagining-the-luxury-sedan-the-all-new-2026-lexus-es/

Sorry but this is is a not attractive. Too much black plastic which looks cheap and the side pieces look awkward and out of place in a way that it it detracts from the side profile which otherwise might look good. Take out the side black plastic and leave the creases and add a metallic piece on the horizontal part and it would look much better IMO. I think the previous generation is very nice looking despite the gaping grill.

roadburner · July 11

benjaminh said:
From my pov the tires on the Camry XSE aren't ideal: 235/40/19. The 40mm or 4 centimeters of sidewall will result in a stiff ride lacking comfort I'm guessing. 4 Michelin CC2 tires at this size are $1140 at Costco with installation, which is getting somewhat expensive I feel.

The tire size for my 2018 TLX 4-cylinder is 225/55/17. 5.5 cm of sidewall gives a cushier ride while still being sporty, if you have good Michelin tires or similar. 4 CC2 tires are $912.

The Camry's LE size is 205/65/16. Hmmm. That 6.5 cm sidewall will certainly give a comfortable ride, and the narrow tire improves mpg to over 50, but at the sacrifice of some handling and grip. 4 CC2s $824.

The Camry's XLE's size is 235/45/18. Still a rather thin sidewall, and so not exactly a comfortable tire, but better than the XSE from my pov. $972 for CC2s at Costco.

If I were getting a Camry I might be tempted by the LE to get the mpg and comfort. But in the end I'd probably want the XLE to get the near-Lexus levels of luxury. But I'd probably skip the pano sunroof etc. to keep the msrp at $35k.

The C43 came with the optional 225/40-19 front and 255/35-19 rear tires. The standard were 225/45-18 front and 245/40-18 rear. I would have been okay with 18" tires (my M235i and MS3 both came with 18" tires) but for reasons only known to AMG cars with the 18" set had a top speed of only 131 mph (1 mph faster than my 149 hp Club Sport!); to get the car derestricted to a much more reasonable 155 mph you had to take 19" wheels.

ab348 · July 11

greg1288 said:
<
Sorry but this is is a not attractive. Too much black plastic which looks cheap and the side pieces look awkward and out of place in a way that it it detracts from the side profile which otherwise might look good. Take out the side black plastic and leave the creases and add a metallic piece on the horizontal part and it would look much better IMO. I think the previous generation is very nice looking despite the gaping grill.

Yes, I have to agree. Though the new Camry is only slightly better in the frontal view. Just a little while ago I was out and came upon a slower car which I did not recognize from the rear. As I got closer and moved left to pass I could see they were visitors from Quebec, and that this car had a very good-looking design in the rear perspective, looking very modern and upscale. It was a 2025 Camry, a big improvement in that view over the previous version. The fact that I hadn’t seen one until now tells me they probably aren’t selling like they used to.

xwesx · July 11

greg1288 said:
Sorry but this is is a not attractive. Too much black plastic which looks cheap and the side pieces look awkward and out of place in a way that it it detracts from the side profile which otherwise might look good. Take out the side black plastic and leave the creases and add a metallic piece on the horizontal part and it would look much better IMO. I think the previous generation is very nice looking despite the gaping grill.

Agreed! They really only needed to redesign that front fascia to have a really nice look on a modern car. I feel like they're trying to bring about the future imagined thirty years ago in "Demolition Man" or something.

fintail · July 11

greg1288 said:

benjaminh said:
A fully loaded Camry XSE with AWD has a list price of $42k. Theoretically for just $1300 more you can get a similarly equipped LEXUS ES 250 with AWD. The interior of the Lexus is nicer, the exterior styling is better, it comes with a longer warranty, etc. But the reality is that It doesn't seem like there are any Lexus dealers in the US that stock the base model ES, and so the real price difference in going up to a Lexus is more like 5k-7k. But perhaps there's a small chance the base model Lexus could be special ordered? An all-new 2026 ES is about to be introduced, but the styling is not my cup of tea.

https://pressroom.lexus.com/reimagining-the-luxury-sedan-the-all-new-2026-lexus-es/
Sorry but this is is a not attractive. Too much black plastic which looks cheap and the side pieces look awkward and out of place in a way that it it detracts from the side profile which otherwise might look good. Take out the side black plastic and leave the creases and add a metallic piece on the horizontal part and it would look much better IMO. I think the previous generation is very nice looking despite the gaping grill.

Sometimes less is more. This is a case of more is more, or more is less depending on your viewpoint.

greg1288 · July 12

I did a quick photoshop job to show what I think would improve the side profile of the new ES. The rearward slant down at the back of the rear door I think looks bad.
Keeping the black plastic without that section would also look better.
Otherwise the profile is nice.

jmonroe1 · July 12

greg1288 said:
I did a quick photoshop job to show what I think would improve the side profile of the new ES. The rearward slant down at the back of the rear door I think looks bad.
Keeping the black plastic without that section would also look better.
Otherwise the profile is nice.

————————————————
Now we know why you were fired as a car designer.

jmonroe

Michaell · July 12

A couple of other vehicles have popped up into my mental radar as potential replacements for the Outback:

Acura TLX
Volvo S60 PHEV

All just speculative at the moment, but it's fun to think about...

benjaminh · July 12

Michaell said:
A couple of other vehicles have popped up into my mental radar as potential replacements for the Outback:

Acura TLX
Volvo S60 PHEV

All just speculative at the moment, but it's fun to think about...

What about the Lexus ES 250, 350, or 300h?

There are rumors on the TLX forums that the TLX is apparently in its last year, and is seemingly is going to be discontinued in a few months.

The current TLX also has some issues from my pov. The stylists wanted a big hood to give it presence, but as result given the large exterior dimensions the back seat is rather snug, and I think has less leg room than a Civic. That's true for my TLX too, although it does work if the person sitting in front moves their seat up a little. The second TLX issue is the trackpad for the infotainment screen. Things like that can be learned, but for most it's not intuitive. Finally, there's the mpg, which for the TLX AWD is rated 24 combined, but according to some that's optimistic. My 2018 TLX with the souped up 4-cylinder and 8-speed DCT usually gets about 38-40 mpg on the highway with the AC on going 72 mph or so, which is 5-7 more than the epa rating. Owners of the current TLX say that it's difficult to get the 29 highway on the epa sticker. The Type S TLX is awesome, but costs 60k or so, and really guzzles gas.

What about....

greg1288 · July 12

jmonroe1 said:

greg1288 said:
I did a quick photoshop job to show what I think would improve the side profile of the new ES. The rearward slant down at the back of the rear door I think looks bad.
Keeping the black plastic without that section would also look better.
Otherwise the profile is nice.

————————————————
Now we know why you were fired as a car designer.

jmonroe

But I never got paid so it doesn't matter. Those Toyota stylists do.

qbrozen · July 12

@Michaell said:
A couple of other vehicles have popped up into my mental radar as potential replacements for the Outback:

Acura TLX
Volvo S60 PHEV

All just speculative at the moment, but it's fun to think about...

I really disliked the s60 PHEV we had as a loaner for a couple of weeks. It didn’t feel any faster than the t6 and yet I could feel the extra weight and the trans didn’t seem well coupled with the drivetrain.

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