Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

corvette

I, for one, welcome our new "loss leader EV" overlords.

benjaminh

Perhaps one reason Ford raised prices so much on the gas Mustang and other gas vehicles was to raise money for their EV program. Ford has spent something like $50 billion dollars on EVs in the last 6 years, and it's been a financial disaster. This year alone Ford is expected to lose $5 billion on EVs, which is more than $100,000 for each one sold.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-projects-mounting-ev-losses-2025-q4-profit-up-2025-02-05/

"DETROIT, Feb 5 (Reuters) - Ford Motor (F.N), opens new tab on Wednesday projected up to $5.5 billion in losses on its electric vehicle and software operations this year, a loss similar to last year and a sign of the severe difficulties in cutting costs on battery-powered models."

Ford's debt to fund its EV program has also reached high levels, which is one reason the stock isn't doing very well.

GM also has spent at least $50 billion on EVs, and faces a similar financial reckoning.

I remember reading articles that GM and Ford were partially financing their EV programs with price increases on gas cars. But now we've reached a world where gas trucks often cost more than $60,000, and not that many people can afford them.

The EV spending spree is one of the things that has created the current affordability challenges for all vehicles.

EVs might be the future in the United States in the long run, but it seems like for the next couple of years things are looking bleak for EVs in America. We're likely to have a big EV sales surge until Sept. 30th, but when the $7500 EV credit ends things will get more challenging. Probably the manufacturers will just keep putting money on the hood for the next six months to move the metal, but with loses on every one sold they might consider significantly reducing EV production in a few months.

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe1 said:

corvette said:

Third (and probably final) dealer service on the Maverick this morning, the second one at this dealer (James Collins Ford). Asked for the $39.95 synthetic blend special, a brake flush, one TSB, and two recalls. Brake flush was only $80.78, which was impressively cheap compared to what I expected.

The $39.95 oil change rang up as $90.27 straight parts and labor. The service writer's explanation was that the special was only for five quarts of oil, and my car took six, so I'm not eligible for the special. This is contrary to every other shop I've visited that will honor the special and charge for the extra quart, along with the tax and disposal fees that aren't included in the special.

I used some Ford points and only paid $80.94 out of pocket, but it left a very bad taste in my mouth, and I won't be back to that dealer. Similar issue on my first visit there, which they corrected when I left a review calling them out, but I'm just going to cut my losses at this point.

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I don’t know why you’re backing off now especially since you don’t plan to go back. Therefore, this is the perfect time to slam them. That tactic sounds like a classic bate-and-switch maneuver since a lot of cars today take more than 5 quarts. I’m sure other customers would like to know how this dealer operates.

jmonroe

Dealers will try anything.

Once I fell for a buy 3 get one free oil change scam at the dealer where I bought a 1997 Chrysler Cirrus. When I brought it in they told me that the deal was not for the Cirrus but for the 2000 Chrysler Concord I had bought at another dealer and no longer owned. I had them drop the lift and left.

Just yesterday my son took a friend to a Kia dealer to look at a Sorento which was listed on their website. Despite being on the lot for 79 days the salesman told the friend that the title for the vehicle had not arrived and he would be willing to sell it to her but she couldn’t register it. He then started pushing to sell other cars. They left.

Hyundai and Kia dealers are the worst. In Louisville you can include the Genesis dealer as well.

roadburner

I think the current Mustang is not as attractive inside or out as compared to its predecessor. If I wanted a Mustang I'd pick up a used Bullitt or Mach 1.

nyccarguy

roadburner said:

I think the current Mustang is not as attractive inside or out as compared to its predecessor. If I wanted a Mustang I'd pick up a used Bullitt or Mach 1.

Some guy in my town has a Mach 1. It is pretty sick.

One of the Lexus dealers not too far from me has this in stock

2020 Mustang Bullitt

qbrozen

@roadburner said:
I think the current Mustang is not as attractive inside or out as compared to its predecessor. If I wanted a Mustang I'd pick up a used Bullitt or Mach 1.

I recently saw a fully built Mach 1 on FB that was tempting me. Owner swapped in a fresh and bulletproofed supercharged Cobra R engine with over 700 hp. Wanted $30k after having spent 60-70k on it.

explorerx4

What year was the Mach 1? Cobra R's are 20 to 25 years old.

oldfarmer50

I noticed at the top of the page a reporter wants to interview people who signed a car loan for 84 months OR LONGER.

Who would admit to that?

Unless it was 0% then I’d be bragging on the street corner.

xwesx

It is CRAZY! However, locally, I know several. I don't get it, and I also don't have any idea of their interest rates.

In all cases, full-size trucks or SUVs.

explorerx4

It's bragging rights. "Yeah Bra, I got a 96 month loan".

28firefighter

explorerx4 said:

It's bragging rights. "Yeah Bra, I got a 96 month loan".

That's "Bruh" to you.

explorerx4

ToMAYto, ToMAWto, whatever.

explorerx4

@nyccarguy,
That's a nice Bullitt. The prices on them never seems to drop.
In case anyone hasn't noticed, my thumbnail or avatar is from this scene in the Bullitt movie trailer.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=bullitt+movie&mid=93BE6B3FA555CCCA734793BE6B3FA555CCCA7347&FORM=VIRE

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

@benjaminh said:

But I imagine some cars like a Chevy Cruze or Nissan Versa are designed with the idea that they are going to last at most ten years, if you're lucky, and that's it.

I have to say my 2015 Cruze disproves that thinking. Even with its 183000 miles.

You must take exceptional care of that car if what I hear about the Cruze is true. Just goes to show that even cars that are trashed by the auto press can go the distance. Where I am it’s usually not mechanicals that do a car in but rust.
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When did you move next door to @oldfarmer50?

jmonroe

jmonroe1

xwesx said:

I had photo issues last night. Here is what I intended to share....

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Man, I never saw fender washers that big until now.

jmonroe

ab348

I just watched this. Much to my surprise, I kind of like it! Looks a lot better than what it’s replacing. Not sure about the dash design and no idea of pricing yet of course. I imagine it won’t be cheap though.

https://youtu.be/GTQcLpbMqlI?si=H7h7L2uQXQitd5uN

tifighter

Griots now bringing the heat on BaT - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-lancia-stratos-2/

What a car…

stickguy

That is way cool

benjaminh

This Mazda CX-90 for $35,600 seems like a good deal at one of my local Mazda dealers. Base "Select" model is still pretty loaded, and with the inline 6-cylinder turbo/mild hybrid makes it somewhat like a budget BMW. Even before discounts the CX-90 has a lower list price than the turbo CX-50, which seems strange.

https://www.oxmoormazda.com/inventory/new-2025-mazda-cx-90-3-3-turbo-select-awd-awd-suv-jm3kkahd3s1224531/

Michaell

Even though I'm not likely to be in the market for a number of months, that doesn't stop me from looking. What I've found:

2015 ES300h with 49K miles on it - $22K
2021 Arteon SEL R-Line FWD with 20K miles - $25K

(I would consider these 3rd vehicles, and keep the Outback; if we trade the Outback, my budget would likely be closer to $40K and skew new, though I did find a 2019 A7 Prestige with low miles on it for $39K)

ab348

@benjaminh said:
This Mazda CX-90 for $35,600 seems like a good deal at one of my local Mazda dealers. Base "Select" model is still pretty loaded, and with the inline 6-cylinder turbo/mild hybrid makes it somewhat like a budget BMW. Even before discounts the CX-90 has a lower list price than the turbo CX-50, which seems strange.

I would stay far, far away from the CX-70/90. The 2024 models were absolute disasters and the ‘25s, while fixing some of the most egregious issues, are still underdeveloped and flaky. There have been a bunch of recalls and numerous buybacks and lemon law cases. Just a very troubled design.

roadburner

benjaminh said:

This Mazda CX-90 for $35,600 seems like a good deal at one of my local Mazda dealers. Base "Select" model is still pretty loaded, and with the inline 6-cylinder turbo/mild hybrid makes it somewhat like a budget BMW. Even before discounts the CX-90 has a lower list price than the turbo CX-50, which seems strange.

https://www.oxmoormazda.com/inventory/new-2025-mazda-cx-90-3-3-turbo-select-awd-awd-suv-jm3kkahd3s1224531/

Every dealing with the Oxmoron's dealer group has been uniformly unpleasant- with the exception of a guy at the Ford parts counter and one salesman at Hyundai.
I would rather walk than buy a car from Oxmoor Mazda.

xwesx

jmonroe1 said:

Man, I never saw fender washers that big until now.

jmonroe

I know, right?! That's basically the truth, too. They are just 1" thick, 2.5" across (approximately) washers, though they taper from that width on the bottom, where they press against the bushing, to maybe 1.5" wide at the top, where they press against the vehicle.

au1994

ab348 said:

@benjaminh said:

This Mazda CX-90 for $35,600 seems like a good deal at one of my local Mazda dealers. Base "Select" model is still pretty loaded, and with the inline 6-cylinder turbo/mild hybrid makes it somewhat like a budget BMW. Even before discounts the CX-90 has a lower list price than the turbo CX-50, which seems strange.

I would stay far, far away from the CX-70/90. The 2024 models were absolute disasters and the ‘25s, while fixing some of the most egregious issues, are still underdeveloped and flaky. There have been a bunch of recalls and numerous buybacks and lemon law cases. Just a very troubled design.

Unfortunate they have not been able to work out the bugaboos on this. It’s a great looking ride and I’d love to try out the I6. It definitely gives off BMW vibes but in a good way.

tjc78

I've driven and ridden in a rental CX-90. Nice enough but I wasn't blown away. In that class I'd take a Highlander or one of the GM variants over it.

au1994

I’m a fan of the Acadia. If my lease was up now, it would get a hard look

tjc78

au1994 said:

I’m a fan of the Acadia. If my lease was up now, it would get a hard look

I like all the GM full sizers. I'd probably end up in Enclave if I had to pick. The Traverse has morphed into basically a 3/4 Tahoe... In all reality it probably has nearly as much useable room at this point.

If leasing the Infiniti QX60 has been a deal for quite some time now, but, not class leading by any means. Nice interior though.

au1994

tjc78 said:

au1994 said:

I’m a fan of the Acadia. If my lease was up now, it would get a hard look

I like all the GM full sizers. I'd probably end up in Enclave if I had to pick. The Traverse has morphed into basically a 3/4 Tahoe... In all reality it probably has nearly as much useable room at this point.

If leasing the Infiniti QX60 has been a deal for quite some time now, but, not class leading by any means. Nice interior though.

Yes, the QX has been a good lease deal and I’d consider it too. The JGC was a good deal since I was coming from a Jeep. Even without that, it still leases well.

Sandman6472

Still haven't lowered the windows in the GTI as I want to give the tint plenty of time to cure. The sticker over the power switches says give it at least 5 days to cure so will take it off tomorrow when I get home from work. Makes a big difference and it's the exact tint I got last year which I was very pleased with. No issues with night driving which was a major concern even though we hardly go out after 8.

Super glad that I finally made a decision and pulled the trigger after such a long time. Strange thing though, I put half on a credit card & wrote a check for the other half. Waited five days to pay the charge and my credit score went down 53 points! Seems a bit ridiculous to me as to why it dropped so quickly! I always pay that one c c I use mostly each month and the only late charge I've had on another card was in 2018 when I was in the hospital for a couple of weeks where I almost died from sepsis! Ended up losing my gall bladder. Once I called and explained things, the penalty charge was taken right off as even the person on the phone was amazed that I never missed a payment or paid only part of the balance since the mid 80's when I got the card. Just hate to carry a balance or owe anything. We've always lived below our means & continue to do so.

explorerx4

Dealer's I've bought from never let me put more than $500 down with a credit card.

xwesx

Sandman6472 said:

Still haven't lowered the windows in the GTI as I want to give the tint plenty of time to cure. The sticker over the power switches says give it at least 5 days to cure so will take it off tomorrow when I get home from work. Makes a big difference and it's the exact tint I got last year which I was very pleased with. No issues with night driving which was a major concern even though we hardly go out after 8.

Super glad that I finally made a decision and pulled the trigger after such a long time. Strange thing though, I put half on a credit card & wrote a check for the other half. Waited five days to pay the charge and my credit score went down 53 points! Seems a bit ridiculous to me as to why it dropped so quickly! I always pay that one c c I use mostly each month and the only late charge I've had on another card was in 2018 when I was in the hospital for a couple of weeks where I almost died from sepsis! Ended up losing my gall bladder. Once I called and explained things, the penalty charge was taken right off as even the person on the phone was amazed that I never missed a payment or paid only part of the balance since the mid 80's when I got the card. Just hate to carry a balance or owe anything. We've always lived below our means & continue to do so.

Depends on the timing. If you use over 10% of your available credit, it'll whack the score for a bit. Don't give too much credence to the Credit Score Almighty.

jmonroe1

xwesx said:

Sandman6472 said:

Still haven't lowered the windows in the GTI as I want to give the tint plenty of time to cure. The sticker over the power switches says give it at least 5 days to cure so will take it off tomorrow when I get home from work. Makes a big difference and it's the exact tint I got last year which I was very pleased with. No issues with night driving which was a major concern even though we hardly go out after 8.

Super glad that I finally made a decision and pulled the trigger after such a long time. Strange thing though, I put half on a credit card & wrote a check for the other half. Waited five days to pay the charge and my credit score went down 53 points! Seems a bit ridiculous to me as to why it dropped so quickly! I always pay that one c c I use mostly each month and the only late charge I've had on another card was in 2018 when I was in the hospital for a couple of weeks where I almost died from sepsis! Ended up losing my gall bladder. Once I called and explained things, the penalty charge was taken right off as even the person on the phone was amazed that I never missed a payment or paid only part of the balance since the mid 80's when I got the card. Just hate to carry a balance or owe anything. We've always lived below our means & continue to do so.

Depends on the timing. If you use over 10% of your available credit, it'll whack the score for a bit. Don't give too much credence to the Credit Score Almighty.

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If I didn’t know better I’d say the financial world prefers folks to be in debt but then I get to thinking fine upstanding banks would never do this, right?

jmonroe

roadburner

BaT recently listed a 1998 318ti M Sport with 2,200 miles on it. It was substantially similar to mine- , but it lacked a mechanical LSD and M3 mirrors. Sadly, it did have a hole in the roof. Anyway, it brought $30,500- most likely due to the extremely low mileage.

sda

roadburner said:

BaT recently listed a 1998 318ti M Sport with 2,200 miles on it. It was substantially similar to mine- , but it lacked a mechanical LSD and M3 mirrors. Sadly, it did have a hole in the roof. Anyway, it brought $30,500- most likely due to the extremely low mileage.

A period popular shade of green. Very Nice. Were you tempted?

xwesx

I like everything about it! Except all the things you mentioned, @roadburner. But hey, perfection is elusive!

roadburner

@sda said:
A period popular shade of green. Very Nice. Were you tempted?

My wife’s 1998 ti was a slightly different shade (Fern Green) and it didn’t have the Sport package. She hated to trade it but we needed a four door to transport her mother and my mother when they both were unable to drive.
The problem with buying a car with extremely low mileage is that you pay a premium for that. I guess if you didn’t want to put more than a few hundred miles per year on it that would work, but I don’t want a car I can’t drive whenever/wherever I want. I still might have taken the plunge for $20k, but there are some other BMWs I’d like more at the $30k price point.

venture

explorerx4 said:

Dealer's I've bought from never let me put more than $500 down with a credit card.

When I bought the BMW, I put $5,000 on a credit card. They didn't seem to care.

When I bought my current Subaru, I also put $5,000 on a credit card. They didn't like it, but they wanted to sell a car.

I paid it off within a week both times.

corvette

@Sandman6472 - @xwesx gave some good advice. 10% utilization may be the "max" for not affecting your credit score at all, but I've been able to take advantage of 0% offers and use up to about 1/3 of my available credit on that card without it significantly affecting my score. If you go over 50% utilization on a card, your score will take a big hit until you get the balance lower.

kyfdx

In any case, the effect on your credit is short-term. And, I'm not sure going from 825 to 795 is going to change anyone's life.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

au1994 said:

I’m a fan of the Acadia. If my lease was up now, it would get a hard look

I like all the GM full sizers. I'd probably end up in Enclave if I had to pick. The Traverse has morphed into basically a 3/4 Tahoe... In all reality it probably has nearly as much useable room at this point.

If leasing the Infiniti QX60 has been a deal for quite some time now, but, not class leading by any means. Nice interior though.

I drove a Traverse today and it was a nice ride except for the weird gear shift stalk and the fact I couldn’t find the headlight switch. I’m also not a fan of the big touch screen with so many icons to read that you’re off the road by the time you locate the one you want.

oldfarmer50

Sandman6472 said:

Still haven't lowered the windows in the GTI as I want to give the tint plenty of time to cure. The sticker over the power switches says give it at least 5 days to cure so will take it off tomorrow when I get home from work. Makes a big difference and it's the exact tint I got last year which I was very pleased with. No issues with night driving which was a major concern even though we hardly go out after 8.

Super glad that I finally made a decision and pulled the trigger after such a long time. Strange thing though, I put half on a credit card & wrote a check for the other half. Waited five days to pay the charge and my credit score went down 53 points! Seems a bit ridiculous to me as to why it dropped so quickly! I always pay that one c c I use mostly each month and the only late charge I've had on another card was in 2018 when I was in the hospital for a couple of weeks where I almost died from sepsis! Ended up losing my gall bladder. Once I called and explained things, the penalty charge was taken right off as even the person on the phone was amazed that I never missed a payment or paid only part of the balance since the mid 80's when I got the card. Just hate to carry a balance or owe anything. We've always lived below our means & continue to do so.

I just bought about 5k of medical equipment and building supplies and my credit score only dropped 14 points.

stickguy

I don’t even bother to check the score. But chase sends out an occasional update email. At this point I think it shows 1% Usage which is just current balances we need to pay that month. And because they don’t show decimal points! Having a good sized HELOC with nothing on it and no other debt does wonders for utilization percentage.

tjc78

I’m sure I mentioned it before but I got stuck with a monster bill for a trade show booth in Vegas (nearly 20 grand) and I couldn’t get reimbursed before the statement flipped so I took a similar credit score hit. The next month it was right back where it was.

kyfdx

Scheduling service at the dealer, and asked for a loaner. This is my first time at this dealer. She immediately said, "We don't accept insurance from Progressive" (plus a couple of minimum coverage companies)

Stuff like that makes me think Progressive might not be the best at paying claims.

corvette

Here’s another hobby @roadburner would disapprove of:

https://www.jalopnik.com/1913466/moo-moo-subaru-cows-explained/

28firefighter

Scheduling service at the dealer, and asked for a loaner. This is my first time at this dealer. She immediately said, "We don't accept insurance from Progressive" (plus a couple of minimum coverage companies) Stuff like that makes me think Progressive might not be the best at paying claims.

I’m currently learning this the hard way though I didn’t think I had a “minimum coverage” company.

Michaell

Thoughts on replacing a spare donut after 10 years? Getting the tires rotated on the Outback, and Discount is recommending that I do this.

I don’t think I’ve ever had the spare out of the well, but I do know that they can dry rot over time.

Roughly $100, give or take.

tjc78

I’d stretch that out a few more years … especially considering that you may be getting rid of it

jmonroe1

corvette said:

Here’s another hobby @roadburner would disapprove of:

https://www.jalopnik.com/1913466/moo-moo-subaru-cows-explained/

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I never cared for copycats so if I ever catch someone male or female messing with our Subie they’re going to find out what a size 11 New Balance sneaker feels like.

jmonroe

roadburner

It seems my credit score only drops when I pay off a car loan...