I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

benjaminh · September 7

When the Ford Fairmont came out I had a cheap subscription to Motor Trend, and as kid I was reading articles about the impressive work Ford had done with this car. $4000 it was about the same price as a VW Rabbit then iirc, and less than an Accord. Adjusted for inflation the price of a 1978 Fairmont is only $20k today, and I don't know if you can get anything in 2025 for an msrp that low.

benjaminh · September 7

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/salesfigurest1.php

VW ad from 1959 + sales chart and prices.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/salesfigurest1.php

fintail · September 7

Too bad many early Taurus were doomed to a significant issue - transmission or 3.8 head gasket. My uncle's 86 had a transmission failure (I was with him in the car when it happened - no reverse. This was at around 120K miles I think, and he liked the car so he got it fixed), and my mom's 93 lost the head gasket at around 80K. My mom really liked the 93, but by that time it was 10+ years old, and her mechanic said if they fix it, the issue may return, and the car was aging by then, so she just moved on, irritated a bit.

For Fairmont, wasn't a base Fairmont pretty spartan? I remember when I was a kid, a friend of my mom had a low option 2 door, and it was really plain, but I don't recall it being troublesome anyway. I know that loaded up they could be nice.

andre1969 · September 7

Those early Fairmonts were pretty basic inside. I think they were still a step up from a Maverick or Comet, though. IIRC, performance was a draw, whether you got the 2.3 4-cyl or the 200 inline-6. But, they were light enough that they were still comparable to something like a Volare with a slant six, a Nova with the 250-inline, or the newly-downsized Malibu with the 200 V6.

Although, I wonder if you could get air conditioning with the 4-cyl Fairmont, or would they make you move up to the torquier 200?

One thing I liked about the Fairmont/Zephyr is that, in my mind at least, it seemed to put them on more or less equal footing with other compacts like the Nova or Volare. And they could even compete with GM's downsized intermediates. I couldn't see a Maverick or Comet doing that.

Also, on competing with GM's downsized intermediates, do you guys remember HPMcTorque, who used to post on here? I remember him telling me that when the Fairmont came out, he really wanted one. But between the unprecedented demand for them, and all the recalls, it was hard to get one, so he ended up getting a '78 LeMans instead. And he got lucky...managed to get a 305 model instead of a 301. So, I could see those cars being cross-shopped back then.

I thought the Fairmonts with the 4 headlights were nice looking. And those Futura coupes with the basket handle roof...those would have made for a better downsized T-bird, than the '80 we ended up with !

I wonder if anyone's ever thought to put a T-bird front clip on a Fairmont Futura. I'm pretty sure it would fit. I think all the creases line up with the rest of the body, and IIRC all of the '80 T-bird's extra wheelbase was tacked on in back.

ab348 · September 7

andre1969 said:

I can't remember the exact order, but Ford had two of the top ten selling cars in the US in 1985. Those were the Escort and the Tempo. GM had seven. In no particular order, Cavalier, Celebrity Caprice(included Impala), Cutlass Ciera, Cutlass Supreme (included the sedan and personal luxury coupe), Delta 88, and Century. The one import was a Nissan, but I'm forgetting now if it was a Stanza or a Sentra.

GM really was a powerhouse back then, although that was about to change quickly. To be fair though, I think the Japanese imports were still sticking to their voluntary quota restraint or whatever, so their cars would have sold better, if they wanted them to.

In retrospect it is easy to see how that could have deluded management and the Board into thinking all was well if they just kept producing their old pushrod engines and copycat styling. Once sales began falling off the damage was well underway and things kept getting worse as the bean counters did their thing.

fintail · September 7

My uncle with the Taurus had a Fairmont wagon well before the Taurus - I remember it, dark blue on blue, cloth interior, probably moderately optioned as it seemed nice enough to my young eyes. I don't recall stories about it having issues. The Futura coupe is cool in a mini-T-Bird way but something proportionally has sometimes seemed off to me, like maybe it looks too tall for its width or something. I know a lot of those have been hot-rodded or at least received V8 swaps. A hidden headlight front clip might change it a bit.

A quick google didn't find a Bird but found these:

stickguy · September 7

I always thought a V8, manual trans Fairmont wagon with updated underpinnings and interior would be a cool toy to have. Basically turn it into a Mustang GT.

fintail · September 7

stickguy said:
I always thought a V8, manual trans Fairmont wagon with updated underpinnings and interior would be a cool toy to have. Basically turn it into a Mustang GT.

That's a thing:

andre1969 · September 7

ab348 said:
In retrospect it is easy to see how that could have deluded management and the Board into thinking all was well if they just kept producing their old pushrod engines and copycat styling. Once sales began falling off the damage was well underway and things kept getting worse as the bean counters did their thing.

I also think of 1985 as the end of GM's period of dominance. I don't remember all of the details for 1986, but do remember GM still had 6 of the top ten selling cars. The Grand Am, which gained a 4-door model was in the top ten. However, the Cutlass Supreme, which had been #9 in 1985, dropped out for '86. So, GM had to have lost another car, but I can't remember which one it was, to still suffer a net drop from 7 of 10 to 6, but I can't remember which one it was. Definitely not the Celebrity or the Cavalier. I guess it could have been the Caprice, Delta 88, or Century. All three of them had sales close to their 1985 level, so they didn't lose much in popularity, but something else could have risen up to displace one of them.

I don't think the Taurus made it into the top ten yet. For '86 it sold well, better than the '85 LTD had. But, it didn't really come on strong until '87. So, my guess is, GM had 6, Ford still had two (Escort and Tempo). And the other two were imports. Maybe not the Stanza anymore, but still, Japanese imports. I imagine the '86 Accord had to have made that list, as it was very well received at the time.

I kind of liked GM's N-body trio at the time (Grand Am, Calais, Somerset Regal). Originally, they were supposed to replace the RWD Cutlass Supreme, Grand Prix, and Regal, but by the time they were getting close to launch, gas was cheap and easy-flowing again, and those cars were still popular, so they were launched instead, as a sort of import fighter. I think the Grand Am actually had the balls to try and go after BMW! I seriously doubt it succeeded in fooling that target audience, though.

explorerx4 · September 7

We had 89, 92 and 96 Taurus' but they were all SHO's.

andre1969 · September 7

Wow, I didn't realize the Mustang front clip would mate up to the Fairmont/LTD/Et Al. I mean, I know they're all Foxes, but I figured the Mustang was modified a bit further. Is the Mustang's cowl/beltine really as high as the rest of the Fox cars, and they just took the height out, in the window area? Or, I wonder if those front ends had to undergo some major modification to mate up to those Fairmonts and such?

That '83-86 LTD front clip looks good on the Futura. I especially like the one with the smoked-out headlight covers.

ab348 · September 7

stickguy said:
I always thought a V8, manual trans Fairmont wagon with updated underpinnings and interior would be a cool toy to have. Basically turn it into a Mustang GT.

A guy locally did that many years ago with a Fairmont 2-door sedan. He did a nice job; looked like a regular Fairmont except for the Mustang GT wheels and wide tires and the orange paint job. Interior had Mustang seats too. Engine/trans was from a GT and I presume the suspension and rear end was also. He must have done a good job since I still see it around and it looks as good as it ever did.

ab348 · September 7

One thing I recall from back when the Futura was introduced - after liking the pictures I’d seen of it, when I saw one in the showroom window of the friendly Ford dealer in town, I stopped and went in to check it out. I was disappointed because not only did the one in the showroom have mean-looking base-trim seats which didn’t go with the image at all, but when I got behind the wheel my head was firmly against the roof. I was astonished. I could only guess that they lowered the roofline but assembled early models with Fairmont seats and not ones with lower mounting brackets that were used later on.

stickguy · September 7

should be an easy swap since on the same platform, and the Fairmont (at some point/body style) came with a V8 and a manual trans. So seems like a reasonable bolt in job! And back then, did not have to worry about CANBUS networks and dozens of modules.

something else I saw not that long ago (probably on bring a trailer or cars and bids) was a Ford transit connect swap, where someone put in the powertrain from a Focus ST I think (turbo and 6 speed stick) along with other goodies like suspension and seats. Looked really well done.

uplanderguy · September 7

‘71 Ninety-Eight in my favorite ‘71 GM full-size color. This one has a lot of rattle-can touch up, and no inside mirror.

andre1969 · September 7

One thing that just dawned on me, were all Fairmonts really only 5-passenger cars? I know a lot of them had bench seats, but I just looked closely at this one, and it looks like it has a full bench, but no center seatbelt.

What brought this to my mind was a 1980 Aspen ad that mentions it being $800 below its nearest 6-passenge competitor, and lower-priced than even the 5-passenger Fairmont.

uplanderguy · September 7

I like those wheelcovers on the car in the Fairmont ad. I don't recall a two-door sedan like the white one, with that trim behind the rear quarter window.

I got plenty of Fairmonts in my rental days. The only car that ever left me stranded was a Fairmont. Although, I realize it could've been anything. (The other worst rental I recall was an '80 Grand Prix V6. The radio turned on and off on bumps, and the only interior light inside, other than dashboard lights, was the courtesy light on the floor of the front passenger. It ticked like a time bomb and I put three quarts of oil in it at one time, during the week I had it, afraid of it self-destructing.)

I later hated Alliances and Encores, but that's another story, LOL.

A longtime friend and coworker bought a new '79 Zephyr Z-7 in a firethorn red metallic with the 302 and 4-speed. He ordered it. The guy who restored my first Studebaker, married a gal who had bought a new, black, '78 Fairmont 302 4-speed. It was the boxy two-door sedan. I believe they still own it.

We talked about this some time back, but in all the Fairmonts and GM mid-sizes I drove, I felt the Fords felt like a big small car, and the GM's felt like a small big car. I think that was most likely due to the GM's being body-on-frame. But I do remember, similarly equipped, the GM's cost more.

When my Dad looked at the GM midsizes, he was appalled by the four-door fixed rear windows, although was aware that on GM midsize coupes, none had had roll-down rear windows since '72. He was also appalled by the compact spare.

The last full-size spare I had in a car was in our '93 Caprice, and it was an option. The car I wanted just happened to have it, but I liked the idea of it having a real spare....old-skool.

fintail · September 7

Just thinking aloud, I think the Fairmont two door base car my mom's friend had was on dog dish caps or something similar, where my uncle's wagon might have had disc type full wheelcovers. I also remember a grade school friend's dad had a two tone blue Zephyr sedan with the spoked type wheelcovers as seen in that ad. Fun to think that this is all within a rounding error of 40 years ago now.

ab348 · September 7

Found a couple of pics of that muscled-up local Fairmont I mentioned. I remember it having 15" late '80s Mustang GT wheels which I thought looked better than what it has now.

stickguy · September 7

I like it. Agree about the wheels though.

explorerx4 · September 7

Those are 17 inch aftermarket wheels.

roadburner · September 7

I liked the Mustang and the 1983-up Thunderbird but those were the only '80s Fords I found attractive.

andre1969 · September 8

I wonder if any of the other manufacturers ever played up the stationary rear door windows on the GM cars, when it came to advertising their competing models? I imagine it did come up, in those internal dealer training films.

The closest I can remember, was a training video for a 1977 Royal Monaco. It was being compared to a Caprice and an LTD. They were definitely picking and choosing their battles on that one. For instance, they mentioned how the Caprice's back window only went down about half way, and the Royal Monaco's went down further (about 3/4, maybe). But the LTD's rear windows went all the way down, so they kept their mouth shut on that one! Most of their yammering about the Caprice was how it gave up too much in the name of downsizing, while their Royal Monaco was still an "uncompromised" full-sized car. But the LTD was, as well. I forget now what they picked on the LTD for. About the only thing I can remember was they called a lot of the LTD's styling details "overly fussy and unnecessary" or something like that.

I found it interesting that Dodge even bothered trying to push the Royal Monaco, at all. I can't imagine too many were bought by civilians. Although, it did sell better than the '76 model. A lot of police car/taxi buyers were starting to use the midsized Monaco (formerly Coronet) more often, so fleet sales of the big Royal Monaco might have been falling off. So, maybe civilian sales actually did pick up a touch.

Even though GM's downsized B/C-bodies were a smash hit, there were still buyers who wanted an old-school mastodon. So with GM taking itself out of that market, it took away most of the competition for those big cars. Or, it could have simply been the economy, that helped the Royal Monaco (and Gran Fury, to a lesser degree). 1977 was a great year, overall. As long as you didn't think about those interest rates, I guess!

explorerx4 · September 8

3 or 4 year old video but speaking Tempo's, rare all the way around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLxm3OXwcWs

fintail · September 8

That's as close as one gets to a unicorn grail kind of thing for a Tempo, the V6 5-speed. I'd like to see a Marti report for something similar, or know how many still exist. Fun that the wheel design goes back well into the 80s, kind of like the car itself.

sda · September 9

fintail said:
That's as close as one gets to a unicorn grail kind of thing for a Tempo, the V6 5-speed. I'd like to see a Marti report for something similar, or know how many still exist. Fun that the wheel design goes back well into the 80s, kind of like the car itself.

It really is. Those plastic plates that cover where the electric window switches would have been are tacky and cheap looking. I had three cars with those motorized seat belts. Hated them. A tachometer would have been nice. My 92 Ranger XLT had the Vulcan V6 , 5 speed manual and no tach. I don’t think it mattered much as that engine does not like to rev high without sounding unhappy.

andre1969 · September 9

Are the window switch cover plates those discolored looking pieces on the door panels? I remember my uncle's '88 LeBaron turbo coupe was sort of the opposite. It had power windows, with the switches mounted in the console. Where the window cranks would have been, they just put these little round plastic silver badge with the pentastar logo. They actually didn't look bad, but just something about them, begged to be picked at, and they'd pop out pretty easily. So as those cars aged, I wonder if it was common for people to lose those little badges?

I also thought the lack of a tach was a bit odd. I can't remember if my stepdad's '84 GL coupe had one or not. I tried looking at pics online of '84 Tempo dashes, and it looks like standard was just a speed and gas gauge, but there was an option that gave you a tach and a temperature gauge.

Overall though, I think the car has aged pretty well. And for not being a very expensive car, I don't think the interior looks bad at all. Personally, I think chrome door handles and nicer window cranks would dress it up nicely. As it is, I think the black ones look kinda cheap and clashy. Oh, one other detail...that recessed area in the top of the dash that looks like it's trying to pass as a little coin tray or whatever, looks like it would be utterly useless in anything resembling spirited driving.

fintail · September 9

Yeah I think those discolored panels on the door are window switch blanks. IIRC our 85 had the PW in the console. That car is oddly optioned - nice wheels, top engine, but manual windows, no tach (our car had a tach). Lack of PW surprises me, I have to imagine there were leftover parts stocks to go through, and I have seen several later Tempaz with PW. No tach is just weird for an engine touted as the performance option, not a base offering. I am also surprised they didn't just give it an airbag, there was an optional airbag for these cars starting in 1985 - very rare initially but I have seen later cars with it (like with other period airbag cars, it has a distinctive steering wheel).

tjc78 · September 10

@sda said:
It really is. Those plastic plates that cover where the electric window switches would have been are tacky and cheap looking. I had three cars with those motorized seat belts. Hated them. A tachometer would have been nice. My 92 Ranger XLT had the Vulcan V6 , 5 speed manual and no tach. I don’t think it mattered much as that engine does not like to rev high without sounding unhappy.

A Ranger with a Vulcan would probably be on my list of cars to survive the apocalypse. Naturally a box Panther and anything with a 3800 would enter the chat as well.

explorerx4 · September 12

Never knew I lived so close to this car. Never saw it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1UTVcBgtic

uplanderguy · September 13

At my donut place, again they had on color episodes of "The Beverly Hillbillies". The 'comedy' is excruciating. But some good Mopar spotting.

Today, it was apparent that 'Miss Hathaway' at some point had traded her red '65 Coronet 500 convertible for a new red '69 Coronet 500 convertible. The '69 is my favorite Coronet. Always liked the three horizontal taillights in back, shared with the R/T.

Also, 'Mr. Drysdale' pulled up to the Clampett mansion in a red, '70 Challenger convertible. Whitewalls, full wheel covers, probably a 318. I usually remember him in an Imperial. But that Challenger looked nice. The styling has aged well IMHO.

sda · September 13

Late 80s base Maxima in fair shape parked at work.
The pic doesn't reflect how the Corolla to the left looks bigger than the Maxima.

uplanderguy · September 13

I'll concede, that-era Maxima was one of the first Japanese cars that I liked the styling of. It was rather simple and restrained. I seem to remember them in a pearlescent white but I couldn't swear to it. Wall-to-wall taillights, right?

sda · September 13

uplanderguy said:
I'll concede, that-era Maxima was one of the first Japanese cars that I liked the styling of. It was rather simple and restrained. I seem to remember them in a pearlescent white but I couldn't swear to it. Wall-to-wall taillights, right?

Pearl white was an option on the SE. Tail lights appeared to span the deck lid.

kyfdx · September 13

4DSC IYKYK

fintail · September 13

Those Maximas were model year 1989-94, coinciding with maybe the peak of Nissan's cachet and relevancy (although one can argue the entire 80s and 90s were good for it). A bit different in 2025.

kyfdx · September 13

I really liked the previous generation, as well. My uncle had an ‘87 wagon. They were measurably superior to the competition.

ab348 · September 13

The travel blogger Steve Marsh dropped a new video today of a visit to Copenhagen which in large part involved him catching a train from there for a day trip to Malmo, Sweden which isn’t far away. When he departed the train station there and began walking around Malmo’s downtown, one of his first encounters were a pair of very nice Stude Gran Turismo Hawks in one of the town squares. Thought of @uplanderguy immediately.

uplanderguy · September 13

Those are absolutely my favorite Studebakers. Make mine a '64 (plain decklid) with half vinyl top.

After '65 Grand Prix and Bonneville, those are my next-favorite instrument panel.

I can recall only one contemporary magazine article about the '64 Hawk. One thing I remember them commenting on is the deep padding on the right 2/3 of the panel, "...unlike the 1/4 inch common in the rest of the industry".

ab348 · September 13

Here they are, apparently just out for a cruise on a nice Sunday afternoon in downtown Malmo.

stickguy · September 13

I do like that cluster.

uplanderguy · September 13

Black one is a '64; white one is a '62.

stickguy · September 13

not sure what it was, bout out driving around today a late 30s to 1940ish (I am terrible at judging) 2 door humpback something. Looked very clean, and stock (not any hot rod mods that I could tell but it was a brief look from across an intersection)

imidazol97 · September 13

ab348 said:
Here they are, apparently just out for a cruise on a nice Sunday afternoon in downtown Malmo.

I like that the white one had the air conditioning on.

In our 1950 Champion, those side vents really brought in a large amount of air flow to cool
the passenger an driver.

fintail · September 13

I know period US cars are a thing in Sweden, but I am used to seeing more wingadinga fins and chrome or maybe big block stuff - surprised to see those, maybe Sweden has a Stude club.

uplanderguy · September 13

Ironically, the Stude museum today just posted this current-day pic of their ‘64 Hawk.

uplanderguy · September 14

Duh! It just occurred to me, that yesterday was "International Drive Your Studebaker Day". The Studebaker Drivers Club promotes this every year.

ab348 · September 15

Local FB had an ad for a ‘78 Pontiac Grand Safari wagon for sale, 60k miles, 301, looks decent, $19,500 in worthless Canadian dollars. I remember seeing this same shade of blue interior in junkyard cars 25 years ago that even back then were faded like this one. On the door panel pic the armrest pad did not fade but the base obviously did, and on the cargo area pic the trim pieces there now look beige, not blue. Bizarre.

explorerx4 · September 15

Finally, it's out of the garage. Only had seen part of the nose before that.
Looks outstanding.

sda · September 15

@ab348 said:
Local FB had an ad for a ‘78 Pontiac Grand Safari wagon for sale, 60k miles, 301, looks decent, $19,500 in worthless Canadian dollars. I remember seeing this same shade of blue interior in junkyard cars 25 years ago that even back then were faded like this one. On the door panel pic the armrest pad did not fade but the base obviously did, and on the cargo area pic the trim pieces there now look beige, not blue. Bizarre.

The hard plastics used during that period did not age well. The hard plastic white A pillar trim in my 76 Sunbird before I sold it in 83, didn't turn color but you could see multiple fine line cracks that would later cause the plastic to crumble and self destinigrate. The trim around the rear windows were doing the same.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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