Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

greg128 · January 10

qbrozen said:

@greg128 said:

Here is a progressive trend I am sure we can all agree with - not

https://www.cbtnews.com/why-states-are-quietly-moving-to-restrict-how-much-you-drive/

Ugh. Click-bait titles are probably one of my top pet peeves these days. It made me read through to find out how they can “restrict” my driving. Answer is they won’t. They’ll just charge me for it. A very different scenario and just another money grab.

Exactly!

au1994 · January 10

stickguy said:
It’s Stellantis so most likely they are just going out of business.

I hope not. I realize that I am in the minority, but I like their products. I’ve had several through the various ownership company’s . Were they perfect? No, but hardly anything is anymore. Even the vaunted Toyota and Honda have issues.

01 PT Cruiser - no problems. Ex-wife wanted it and all in all, it wasn’t a bad car.
05 Ram - one suspension bit went bad under warranty
07 Wrangler - fuel filler vent clogged but I used that one as intended and probably got it packed with trail goo. Chrysler fixed it no charge even though it was just out of warranty
21 Wrangler 4xe - Battery cooler failed and was covered, I think I had 2 recalls for s/w
24 - Grand Cherokee - one rattle that was fixed and a couple of random s/w glitches that don’t seem to repeat themselves

I’d consider another JGC when this lease is up. I like the look compared to a lot of what else is out there.

benjaminh · January 10

I’ve purchased what might be the first new car of the year for this thread, and the embarrassing thing is it’s another Outback. Got invoice price (3k off list), as well as an ok trade-in for my Acura with 93,000 miles that soon would’ve needed the 100k service for $2k + maybe $1k of suspension work recommended by the Acura dealer + in a year or two $1k for new tires. Could’ve written a check, but instead went with Subaru’s 0.9% for six years with monthly payments of $344.

Although the Outback isn’t as fast and sporty as my Acura, it has several advantages over the TLX, including awd, larger and better infotainment/nav with wireless connection and touchscreen, rather than needing to plug in and use a dial (the dial was challenging for my wife), more comfortable and quieter ride, better back seat room, more cargo space, for my wife and others a more comfortable seating height, remote start that wasn’t on my Acura (and useful since our one-car garage is currently used for storage), cloth seats that we prefer over leather for hot summers and cold winters, runs on regular instead of premium, has a spare tire, and has a new car warranty.

It was their very last new 25 on the lot, which sent me down a ccba rabbit hole as I realized I’d regret it if I didn’t get it. The knowledgeable and no games salesperson I’ve worked with before quickly came up with good numbers, and after talking over the pros and cons with spouse we decided to go ahead. I did sit in the 26 Outback while there, and although there are a couple of improvements there are also things I don’t care for with the new model, plus it costs significantly more and doesn’t have the low financing. I’ll miss the TLX, but now in my early 60s and thinking about bucket list trips this is better for those possibilities (including maybe even a car trip to Alaska someday), as well as for commuting, shopping, and shorter trips closer to home.

Almost the same color as my TLX, but doesn’t have the almost half dozen parking lot scratches and dings that sometimes bothered me. Also, I was having mixed experiences at the Acura service center. Hoping for better with Bachman Subaru.

oldfarmer50 · January 10

qbrozen said:
Hmmmm…. Dealer not too far from me has a 2011 Pathfinder with 72k miles. Based on the data, a fair deal would be the Sierra straight up swap for the Nissan. That is quite tempting.

You assume the dealer is interested in a fair deal. 🥲

oldfarmer50 · January 10

greg128 said:
Here is a progressive trend I am sure we can all agree with - not

https://www.cbtnews.com/why-states-are-quietly-moving-to-restrict-how-much-you-drive/

“ At its core, this is not about transportation or emissions. It’s about power and control.”

That says it all.

tjc78 · January 10

I’m on Ram #2. Ram #1 had zero warranty issues and I wasn’t necessarily easy on that rig.

Ram #2 was a little iffy in the beginning with the transmission logic … but I’ve found it is truly adaptive. If it starts to get lazy down shifting and/or super quick up shift from 1st, I just find a place and beat it up a bit and it restores good behavior.

@benjaminh
Congratulations! First punch sticker for you!

corvette · January 10

Congrats, @benjaminh! Looks like you have the first punch of the year. Your driveway should look interesting when grown kid #1 is visiting!

oldfarmer50 · January 10

au1994 said:

stickguy said:
It’s Stellantis so most likely they are just going out of business.

I hope not. I realize that I am in the minority, but I like their products. I’ve had several through the various ownership company’s . Were they perfect? No, but hardly anything is anymore. Even the vaunted Toyota and Honda have issues.

01 PT Cruiser - no problems. Ex-wife wanted it and all in all, it wasn’t a bad car.
05 Ram - one suspension bit went bad under warranty
07 Wrangler - fuel filler vent clogged but I used that one as intended and probably got it packed with trail goo. Chrysler fixed it no charge even though it was just out of warranty
21 Wrangler 4xe - Battery cooler failed and was covered, I think I had 2 recalls for s/w
24 - Grand Cherokee - one rattle that was fixed and a couple of random s/w glitches that don’t seem to repeat themselves

I’d consider another JGC when this lease is up. I like the look compared to a lot of what else is out there.

I’ve got a 2000 Chrysler and it’s been a decent car considering its age. My 2009 PT Cruiser on the other hand was pretty junky. Nothing Stellantis currently offers interests me.

qbrozen · January 10

@oldfarmer50 said:
You assume the dealer is interested in a fair deal. 🥲

Yeah, but it’s actually a bit better deal for them than me. However they break it down, I estimate they’d make $5k-$7k across the 2 vehicles.

I do, however, first need to fix an exhaust leak before I do anything else. Thought I could do it today. Cut off a piece of the old (including flex pipe) and started putting together the new piece when I got halfway through welding and ran out of wire. Of course!

dbeck · January 10

Household punch to report, sadly not mine

Our youngest son has been looking at Broncos, found one he liked but they were pretty firm on the asking price. They did have another one that he liked, a year newer and fewer miles so he went for it. It's a 2023 Big Bend 2-door, 23k miles, Sasquatch package, got it for a smidge over $38k. He's a happy camper!

oldfarmer50 · January 10

Nice car. That color suits it. Your son’s experience confirms my suspicions that dealers have switched to a hard ball paradigm when it comes to negotiations which seems strange if reports of inventory gluts are true.

dbeck · January 10

Ironically, the one he had looked at first had been on the lot 135 days or so. The one he bought had been there a few weeks and they were flexible on asking price.

roadburner · January 10

au1994 said:

stickguy said:
It’s Stellantis so most likely they are just going out of business.

I hope not. I realize that I am in the minority, but I like their products. I’ve had several through the various ownership company’s . Were they perfect? No, but hardly anything is anymore. Even the vaunted Toyota and Honda have issues.

01 PT Cruiser - no problems. Ex-wife wanted it and all in all, it wasn’t a bad car.
05 Ram - one suspension bit went bad under warranty
07 Wrangler - fuel filler vent clogged but I used that one as intended and probably got it packed with trail goo. Chrysler fixed it no charge even though it was just out of warranty
21 Wrangler 4xe - Battery cooler failed and was covered, I think I had 2 recalls for s/w
24 - Grand Cherokee - one rattle that was fixed and a couple of random s/w glitches that don’t seem to repeat themselves

I’d consider another JGC when this lease is up. I like the look compared to a lot of what else is out there.

My 1999 TJ had a few repairs over the 21 years I owned it but nothing out of line. My Sahara 4xe had a steering damper replaced under warranty by the PO and I had the coolant heater replaced under warrant. Other than that nothing aside from a few recalls which my dealer handled quickly.

laurasdada · January 10

IIRC, my '95 Dodge Intrepid and '99 Chrysler 300M were fairly reliable. Poorly built, however. Not that things fell off or rattled too much. Just interior and exterior panel fit were "inexact."

stickguy · January 10

I like that Bronco. My wife would make my life miserable if I got one I think.

stickguy · January 10

Benjamin, congrats! those are definitely popular around here. But I really thought you were going to keep the TLX long term. But sounds like the right car for your needs now.

Am I the last Acura owner on here now? Or does someone still have an older TL beater?

I do plan to have my wife look at the new Outback. Kinda curious if she is going to like it or not. And if it will float my boat enough to want to drive it all the time! I think we will drive the 2 BMWs under consideration, then go look at a few other options to compare them to. Not really in a rush. The Acura will finally click over 30K in the not-too-distant future (I think we are at 29,6XX now).

Subaru, BMW, Lexus. I think that is my short list.

stickguy · January 10

of the many cars I have had, not counting the "classics" (a 74 Duster) I think the only Chrysler products we had was the Plymouth Voyager (a 1995 I think, first year of the redesigned curvy style with dual sliders). Really nice to drive, and very practical, but that thing had a lot of issues. Mostly annoyance stuff IIRC. Oh, and my 1985 Plymouth Colt. That was bullet proof. And very slow. And my wife when we got married had a same vintage Horizon. That actually did not have many issues.

long way of saying, we have not had any experience with Stellantis at all, or ChryCo since before the Mercedes days!

cdnpinhead · January 10

laurasdada said:
IIRC, my '95 Dodge Intrepid and '99 Chrysler 300M were fairly reliable. Poorly built, however. Not that things fell off or rattled too much. Just interior and exterior panel fit were "inexact."

Well, you dodged a couple of bullets if you had no transmission issues. I had an Eagle Vision, my wife drove a Voyager and my M-I-L had an Intrepid about that time, and all three required major transmission work, not at all uncommon in that era.

explorerx4 · January 10

A few months ago, I tried to get an offer from Carmax for my F-150.
They wouldn't give an online price and said i had to bring it in for an appraisal.
Now they have one. The price with about 2K miles more than I have is $1500 more than I paid new(excluding taxes and fees).
https://www.carmax.com/car/28172426

nyccarguy · January 10

@stickguy said:
Benjamin, congrats! those are definitely popular around here. But I really thought you were going to keep the TLX long term. But sounds like the right car for your needs now.

Am I the last Acura owner on here now? Or does someone still have an older TL beater?

I do plan to have my wife look at the new Outback. Kinda curious if she is going to like it or not. And if it will float my boat enough to want to drive it all the time! I think we will drive the 2 BMWs under consideration, then go look at a few other options to compare them to. Not really in a rush. The Acura will finally click over 30K in the not-too-distant future (I think we are at 29,6XX now).

Subaru, BMW, Lexus. I think that is my short list.

@cdnpinhead still has his ‘06 TSX with 6MT & I leased an Integra back at the end of October.

nyccarguy · January 10

@benjaminh - Congrats on the new Outback! How much did they give you for the TLX with almost 100K on the odometer?

stickguy · January 10

nyccarguy said:

@stickguy said:

Benjamin, congrats! those are definitely popular around here. But I really thought you were going to keep the TLX long term. But sounds like the right car for your needs now.

Am I the last Acura owner on here now? Or does someone still have an older TL beater?

I do plan to have my wife look at the new Outback. Kinda curious if she is going to like it or not. And if it will float my boat enough to want to drive it all the time! I think we will drive the 2 BMWs under consideration, then go look at a few other options to compare them to. Not really in a rush. The Acura will finally click over 30K in the not-too-distant future (I think we are at 29,6XX now).

Subaru, BMW, Lexus. I think that is my short list.

@cdnpinhead still has his ‘06 TSX with 6MT & I leased an Integra back at the end of October.

I completely forgot about your Integra. a 4th quarter from hell at work just about broke my brain.

clm8 · January 10

I have a 2025 RDX that replaced a 2014 RDX that I had for 11 years.

mrwhipple311 · January 10

stickguy said:
Benjamin, congrats! those are definitely popular around here. But I really thought you were going to keep the TLX long term. But sounds like the right car for your needs now.

Am I the last Acura owner on here now? Or does someone still have an older TL beater?

I do plan to have my wife look at the new Outback. Kinda curious if she is going to like it or not. And if it will float my boat enough to want to drive it all the time! I think we will drive the 2 BMWs under consideration, then go look at a few other options to compare them to. Not really in a rush. The Acura will finally click over 30K in the not-too-distant future (I think we are at 29,6XX now).

Subaru, BMW, Lexus. I think that is my short list.

Me and my 2015 RDX still lurk often

Michaell · January 10

I finally saw my first ‘26 Outback today, and I don’t hate it as much as I thought I would. Yes, more blocky in shape, but about the same size as the previous version.

stickguy · January 10

I don't think I have seen one live. Just on video.

benjaminh · January 10

nyccarguy said:
@benjaminh - Congrats on the new Outback! How much did they give you for the TLX with almost 100K on the odometer?

It had a minor accident on the carfax, plus the previously mentioned scratches and dings on various places outside. My Michelins already had 45k on them and were from 2021, and so that also wasn't a plus factor. Anyway, they gave me $13k. I paid 29k for it 7.5 years ago.

nyccarguy · January 10

Look at all of the Acura owners coming out of the woodwork!

kyfdx · January 10

benjaminh said:

nyccarguy said:
@benjaminh - Congrats on the new Outback! How much did they give you for the TLX with almost 100K on the odometer?

It had a minor accident on the carfax, plus the previously mentioned scratches and dings on various places outside. My Michelins already had 45k on them and were from 2021, and so that also wasn't a plus factor. Anyway, they gave me $13k. I paid 29k for it 7.5 years ago.

$13K seems like you did very well.

stickguy · January 10

agreed. Seems strong money wholesale.

nyccarguy · January 10

@benjaminh said:
It had a minor accident on the carfax, plus the previously mentioned scratches and dings on various places outside. My Michelins already had 45k on them and were from 2021, and so that also wasn't a plus factor. Anyway, they gave me $13k. I paid 29k for it 7.5 years ago.

Nice job on the buy and the trade in.

venture · January 10

Michaell said:
I finally saw my first ‘26 Outback today, and I don’t hate it as much as I thought I would. Yes, more blocky in shape, but about the same size as the previous version.

The '26 doesn't have as much black cladding as the previous models. A definite improvement, but still hard on the eyes in a light color. I would have to get black or a dark gray.

benjaminh · January 10

stickguy said:
I do plan to have my wife look at the new Outback. Kinda curious if she is going to like it or not. And if it will float my boat enough to want to drive it all the time!...

Have you decided which trim level of Outback you might take on a test drive? I'm guessing maybe the top-of-the-line Touring XT?

For the 2025 Outback the Premium is the same in some areas as the Touring. For instance, the interior door handles are metal and Acura-like, there's real stitching in the cushioned vinyl (but leather looking) dashboard area ahead of the front passenger, etc.

For 2026 I think all grades below the Touring get plastic door handles and have a somewhat discount looking fabric piece where that stitched cushioned vinyl area was earlier.

The headliner in the 2025 Outbacks is a pleasing light cream color, and feels ok to the touch (although not as soft as my TLX). The all-black headliner in the 2026 is apparently made out of recycled plastic bottles, and although that's laudable in the abstract, the color and slightly rough texture were not my cup of tea in the showroom.

There were a few other areas where it seemed to me like they were trying to take some costs out of the interior. No doubt that was to help pay for the completely new infotainment system, digital dash, as well as the useful addition of lidar to the EyeSight system.

stickguy · January 10

I have not really looked at the trim levels. Usually I go 1 below the top when they have 4 or so, or at least 1 that is pretty much over the top. But on this one, I want lots of goodies. 360 camera, stuff like that. The wife wants leather (but would not know the difference to something like MBTEX). highly adjustable power seats (both sides), memory, all the nice stuff.

for the sube, if they offered it in a hybrid I would get that. But of the current options, I think it would have to be the turbo. I don't need outrageous performance but the NA boxer is a bit pokey I suspect. But the XT pricing is going to put it on par with a BMW so who knows.

jmonroe1 · January 10

@qbrozen said:

@greg128 said:
Here is a progressive trend I am sure we can all agree with - not

https://www.cbtnews.com/why-states-are-quietly-moving-to-restrict-how-much-you-drive/

Ugh. Click-bait titles are probably one of my top pet peeves these days. It made me read through to find out how they can “restrict” my driving. Answer is they won’t. They’ll just charge me for it. A very different scenario and just another money grab.

——————————————————
I’m surprised you read all of it. I don’t have the patience to read through that kind of stuff. I get insulted easily.

jmonroe

benjaminh · January 10

Michaell said:
I finally saw my first ‘26 Outback today, and I don’t hate it as much as I thought I would. Yes, more blocky in shape, but about the same size as the previous version.

I agree. Although in photos the new Outback's front is a bit much for me, in person it was somehow better. The rear area of the new Outback I liked quite a bit...maybe even more than the previous generation.

The headliner of the 2026 is the element I like the least about the new design.

jmonroe1 · January 10

@xwesx said:
I love shopping for new tires for some reason. But, I hate having to actually buy them. LOL

——————————————————
I never liked shopping/buying tires. Just never seemed to get me ahead in life. Almost like treading water, plus those round black things are getting very expensive.

jmonroe

jmonroe1 · January 10

@dbeck said:
Ironically, the one he had looked at first had been on the lot 135 days or so. The one he bought had been there a few weeks and they were flexible on asking price.

——————————————————
On that 135 day job…”they probably know what they got”.

jmonroe

jmonroe1 · January 10

@venture said:
The '26 doesn't have as much black cladding as the previous models. A definite improvement, but still hard on the eyes in a light color. I would have to get black or a dark gray.

——————————————————
So, you’re sayin there’s a place for Old Man’s Gray after all.

jmonroe

venture · January 10

jmonroe1 said:

@venture said:

The '26 doesn't have as much black cladding as the previous models. A definite improvement, but still hard on the eyes in a light color. I would have to get black or a dark gray.

——————————————————

So, you’re sayin there’s a place for Old Man’s Gray after all.

jmonroe

In this case...absolutely.

benjaminh · January 11

stickguy said:
...Subaru, BMW, Lexus. I think that is my short list.

If you wait a few months, it might be worth it to try out the all-new Subaru Trailseeker EV. The Trailseeker was jointly developed not only with Toyota but also with Lexus. As the 3-minute video below from Consumer Reports shows, some things are even shared with Lexus. Usually I wouldn't buy the first year of an all-new model, but because it's Subaru's second EV, and because it was developed jointly with Toyota, which as we all know is legendary for quality control, I was originally thinking of maybe getting a Trailseeker myself in a few months.

But I have in mind long trips that would have made the 260-mile range of the Trailseeker (or more like 180 in winter going from 90% to 10% charge) less than ideal. And although we are very slowly clearing out our garage of things, realistically it's going to be at least another year or two before a car can again be parked in there, and an EV charged.

For your situation, however, the Trailseeker might be something to consider. It seems impressive from what I've learned so far. The Trailseeker will be faster than a turbo Outback, and from my pov it looks better than the new Outback. The msrp for the top-of-the-line Trailseeker Touring is $49k with destination, including two-tone paint, premium leather, etc.

Anyway, Consumer Reports in their first look at the pre-production Trailseeker seems to like it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCbJ1tjIPhQ

Here's Subaru's link. Before I switched to getting the more practical for me 2025 Outback, I was even considering filling out their form saying I was interested in the Trailseeker. It doesn't obligate you to buy, but since the numbers produced are going to be rather small it potentially gets the preferred trim level and color shipped to your dealer for you. Then after a test drive if it's not up to expectations, or the price they offer isn't appealing, the customer can just say no thanks and walk away.

https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/trailseeker/2026.html

"The 2026 Subaru Trailseeker will be available in six colors: Brilliant Bronze Metallic, Crystal Black Silica, Crystal White Pearl, Magnetite Gray Metallic, and Sapphire Blue Pearl. Daybreak Blue Pearl is also available and costs $395..."

https://media.subaru.com/newsrelease.do?id=2397

stickguy · January 11

That does look nice. And would work for us. I shared with the boss to see what she thinks. I’m guessing leased will be terrible on those though.

benjaminh · January 11

My guess is leasing a Trailseeker might be more or less ok? But that's taking into consideration the almost Lexus-like level of the vehicle, and the fact that you'd be looking at the top-of-the-line to get the features you want. Maybe $600 a month or so? But the Premium level, which would still be very nice, might be closer to $500? If demand for the Trailseeker is weak, even with the compelling features and low pricing, then better offers might be available by the middle of Summer. But if demand is that weak I wonder if Subaru will even continue with it for more than a couple of years. It seems likely the losses on the Trailseeker are going to be significant. It's made in Japan and so Subaru also has to absorb the costs of the tariffs.

stickguy · January 11

EVs are big elsewhere in the world so they could potentially still sell all they need to elsewhere, as the US goes back to the stone ages.

ab348 · January 11

Subaru's first EV was a failure for a number of very good reasons such as poor range and high cost. Time will tell if this one is better. Toyota EVs themselves have not been noted for their range either. I'm not a fan of the black plastic goiters affixed to the front fenders though.

laurasdada · January 11

cdnpinhead said:

laurasdada said:
IIRC, my '95 Dodge Intrepid and '99 Chrysler 300M were fairly reliable. Poorly built, however. Not that things fell off or rattled too much. Just interior and exterior panel fit were "inexact."
Well, you dodged a couple of bullets if you had no transmission issues. I had an Eagle Vision, my wife drove a Voyager and my M-I-L had an Intrepid about that time, and all three required major transmission work, not at all uncommon in that era.

That's why I moved on from each as they approached 70k miles. I believed I heard the timer on the bomb beginning to tick more rapidly!

explorerx4 · January 11

There is nothing about the Trailseeker that would make me consider it.
Less horsepower than what I have now, 35-70% less range based on 260 miles for TS, not as much ground clearance as an Outback has a high price, plus the styling in unattractive.
18 inch wheels are standard but the one in the video look like at least 20's.
Tires are all season's which don't fit with something called the Trailseeker.

greg128 · January 11

benjaminh said:

Michaell said:
I finally saw my first ‘26 Outback today, and I don’t hate it as much as I thought I would. Yes, more blocky in shape, but about the same size as the previous version.

I agree. Although in photos the new Outback's front is a bit much for me, in person it was somehow better. The rear area of the new Outback I liked quite a bit...maybe even more than the previous generation.

The headliner of the 2026 is the element I like the least about the new design.

Good luck with the Outback. My SIL has a 2024 for a couple of years. It is the Onyx with the turbo and she likes it. I think it looks better than the 2026 and is actually quite handsome although I am not a fan of the Black corners on her white example. The interior is very nice with a light brown leather like my wife's XT5. She recently had a no start and the battery was replaced which seems to be common not only Subarus but I think all newer makes. The same thing happened to my BIL's leased 2023 Chevy Blazer. It was fine one day and the next completely dead.

Michaell · January 11

While I know leasing reasonably well, a member started a new thread about ending their Wrangler 4xe lease, and though you gurus might want to jump in and offer advice.

Wrangler 4xe lease end

nyccarguy · January 11

@explorerx4 said:
There is nothing about the Trailseeker that would make me consider it.
Less horsepower than what I have now, 35-70% less range based on 260 miles for TS, not as much ground clearance as an Outback has a high price, plus the styling in unattractive.
18 inch wheels are standard but the one in the video look like at least 20's.
Tires are all season's which don't fit with something called the Trailseeker.

Also, it isn’t a FORD. That’s the number one reason you won’t consider it;)-

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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