Kudos to Honda and/or the dealer for supplying the parts for this transmission replacement. After all, the car was outside of warranty.
Regarding the original poster's comment about never buying a Honda again...well, let's face it. No one expects a transmission to fail on a 3 year old car. Add to that the fairly common string of posts here about Honda transmission issues. Adding in the "hassle factor" (car is out of commission, arguing with the dealer, setting up a rental or what-have-you), I can't blame the person for saying they won't buy another one.
People say that all the time - I've said it about my Honda dealer (a more arrogant and condescending sales department I have never seen) although I would still buy another Honda if it fit my needs, albeit from any other dealership than my current one. I see it all the time on a bunch of the boards here on Edmunds.
Who knows the treatment that car may have received in order for this to have happened? A transmission should last longer than that providing a 17 year old didn't use it to drag race.
I don't think the poster deserves this kind of criticism. Did they indicate the car had been abused in some way. I think transmissions should last up to 70000 before random failures start happening. Honda has had some problems with transmissions. This is something they should take care of. People expect transmissions to equal the reputation the car earned during the 90s.
i think most people expect an automatic transmission to easily last 120-150K, specially in a Toyota or a Honda! personally, i expect that and that a manual transmission to never ever fail for the serviceable life of the vehicle.
that said...i imagine there are people like myself that expect that should the transmission fail, they aren't looking at a $2K-4K (or more) repair bill.
the thing is - transmissions are failing (many manufacturers) even when vehicles are being driven carefully and the maintenance schedules are followed.
it's plain good business for a manufacturer to stand behind the product. that builds brand loyalty and maintains a quality, customer-centric image.
if the transmission portion of the vehicles longevity is questionable, the manufacturer needs to make it much less painful for the owner to get the problem fixed, or work to develop a more bullet-proof sub-system that doesn't fail early.
I took my good old '95 Accord V6 with 77,000 miles to flush the transmission. I bought the car used, 6 years ago, with 45,000 and I have to say that I learned about this issue of the need to flush the tranny HERE ON THIS BORAD...
Am not sure the tranny was EVER flushed or even drained...
My mechanic was not sure what I am talking about when mentioning Honda having "their own tranny"... Why, doesn't Toyota have their own, and so do GM and Ford, he asked...
Well, he's right actually... What's so special about Honda's?
BTW, he flushed my tranny with the Honda ATF and THE CAR DOES SHIFT SMOOTHER, ESPECIALLY WHEN DOWN-SHIFTING!
Together with 2 new tires, replacing a 6 years old pair that was in good shape but VERY noisy... HEY, MY GOOD OLD '95 ACCORD NOW RUNS ALMOST AS SMOOTH AS MY BRAND NEW '05 ACCORD!!!
What are you talking about? I didn't criticize anybody.
When I was 17 or 18, I distroyed the transmission in my parent's three year old Buick one night. I limped it home, parked it in the garage and went to bed.
The next day I heard my parents talking about how the Buick wasn't "shifting right".
I kept my mouth shut and got away with it but I do think about that long ago night.
I apologize for my error. I didn't realize we were serving as Dr. Phil's confessions about your past transgression. I also hurt my dad's manual transmission by letting a girl friend shift. She didn't have it all the way in gear and it chipped a tooth when I let out on the clutch. Oh the memories.
In my mom's 1987 Camry was bulletproof. I dogged that car from 16 to 20 years old and that car lasted until around 2001 and 260K when it failed emissions. She actually still has it. All this talk has me curious if it'll start. I may go over there and try and get it running next week.
That's the kind of reliability I expect. But I don't think anyone builds cars like that anymore.
I have an '86 Honda Accord Sedan, and randomly when I am in the car the locks will lock themselves accompanied by a horribly loud noise. The locks were still working despite the awful sound. However just in the past two days the locks have been "unlocking" themselves when I am away from the car. So whenever I go to get in the car, my locks are unlocked. Today I heard it lock ( because of the loud sound) it was a half an hour after I had arrived at home and had left the car. The sound is bad, but the unlocking of the doors makes me nervous, and it has happened at public places. ANYONE WHO CAN HELP???? Thanks
Either the door lock switch or the control unit under the passenger seat fails. I would test the door lock switch first. My guess is the control unit is failing.
You bring up some intriguing points, though there are also factors at work here that many don't take into consideration. During the early fifteis through the mid-seventies automatic transmissions were considerably larger. From bell housing to tailshaft they measured a good 2 1/2 feet much of it with access to unrestricted air flow. That amount of metal casing translated into considerable heat dissipation capability in addition to the transmission fluid cooler mounted in the radiator. With front wheel drive cars, we have automatics that combine the additional heat generation of the differential in a compact package little more than a foot in depth - and nestled in a confined area with little free airflow at that. The smaller radiators on compact and midsize cars translates into barely nominal transmission fluid cooling. On top of all that these more compact packages, with correspondingly smaller internal parts, are still being saddled with handling the power and torque in current 6-cylinder engines that used to be the domain of larger 8-cylinder engines. Further complicating the heat exchange issue is the fact that the more compact transmissions just hold less fluid volume than the behemouth transmissions formerly used in rear drive cars.
As to manual transmissions, again front wheel drive vehicles complicate their assumed less stressful lives. The need for compact packages also means smaller working parts. Gears aren't that big a problem, but the synchronizers which allow shifting without double-clutching, take a lot more stress in doing their job since they have to be smaller, too, in these compact packages.
In the interest of efficiency and environmental concerns, we're demanding midgets to take on the work of longshoremen. Anyone desiring ultimate transmission life in modern cars should take the normal service recommendation of having its fluid changed out at 100,000 mile intervals with a grain of salt. Consider using the severe service schedule of 30,000 miles instead.
Back in the sixties, automatic transmissions didn't last that long!
People didn't expect them to last 200,000 miles and they didn't! It was a pretty normal thing to have your Powerglide or Hydramatic overhauled at 70,000 miles.
That was pretty much the norm. Same with engines. A car with 100,000 miles was considered "worn out" and they were!
You and I have entirely different recollections about 60's era ATs. Every transmission man I've talked to (one of whom I lived next door to for ten years) agrees that current automatics don't hold a candle to the longevity of the older units. My own experience bears this out. My dad bought a '60 Dodge with a 2-sp Powerflyte (its last year of production - Chrysler restricted AT availability to their Torqueflyte thereafter) and the car came down to me six years later when I started optometry school. I drove that car through late 1970. When I sold it, it had 125,000 miles on it and the only transmission service other than ATF and filter changes were several rear oil seals which could be accomplished by dropping the drive shaft at the tail shaft housing and using a special tool to remove the old seal and drive in a new one. I do agree with you about engines, though. 100,000 miles was once the mark of fastidious routine service. Now, it's a given unless the engine's been grossly abused and even 300,000+ miles is achievable with service at the "severe service" schedule. I've got an '89 Toyota pickup sitting out front with over 275,000 miles on it. Neither the head nor the pan's ever been off. I'm on my second clutch and fourth battery, though. The biggest reason in my opinion for the enhanced engine longevity we're seeing are the modern motor oils now available - nor am I restricting my commentary to pricey synthetics either.
Problem solved.... brought my problem to attention of Honda and apparently they have no way to avoid replacing your accord transmission as there is apparently some sort of recall---i read somewhere on this site of a very dangerous situation of young lady driving with child and transmission dying out at 75mph, leaving an extremely dangerous situation...insist on replacement ! RD
Maybe this isn't a "problem" but I noticed my glovebox light comes on when the headlights are on and not just when you open the box. The box doesn't close tight and a small bit of light escapes.
When I turn on my front defroster, the air conditioner comes on. My dealer informed me that this is normal, but it impacts my fuel consumption. Does anyone know how to turn of the air conditioner, when the defroster is on?
I could really use the help. Thanks for your time.
I'll bet that Toyota truck is a 4 cyl. The V-6's don't seem to last as long.
We remember things differently. Back in the "old days" the Chrysler Torqueflights were the best out there. The old 4 speed Hydramatics were tough too. The later Roto-Hydramatics were trouble. The cast iron Powerglides were pretty good but the aluminum Powerglides that cane out in 1962 would go through clutches around 60-70,000 miles. I had one. Chevy made a junk automatic called a Turboglide from 1957-1961. Pure junk. Most got converted to a Powerglide.
Nowadays, it's pretty rare to lose a transmission before 100,000 miles When they do, people come here and complain. Funny, though because Chrysler products seem to be the worst now.
There was a whole thread of messages about this about 2 weeks ago here...
This is true for ANY car: Basically, the AC needs to go on, 'cause the idea is to DRY the air in the car and thus get rid of the fog on the inside of the windshield and the rest of the windows.
Also, it's a good way to keep your AC system in good shape, by activating it periodically during the Winter, instead of leaving it "dead" for several long months.
Don't worry about it too much. Usually you don't need to drive with the Defrost on for a long time, anyhow.
i remember us walking and driving on the moon, but i didn't have a driver's license then. but in a number of decades of vehicle ownership subsequent to that, i personally never had to worry about transmission longevity (or engine longevity for that matter) in the vws, mazdas, toyotas or hondas i previously owned.
i think someone with a failure, or two (or more) of the transmission before 100K has every right (regardless of manufacturer) to come here and complain. and it's useful for people reading the forums to know that these failures are occurring.
personally, i'm a proponent of a system that would force manufacturers to reveal to the public the incident metrics for service of components such as these. that way, the low-performers in terms of parts longevity would have more motivation to improve manufacturing quality, and design. if a tranny goes at 100 or 150, i DO expect a manufacturer to pick up a good deal of the tab. the replacement shouldn't cost 20% (or MORE) of a new vehicle.
isell, to be honest, i'm not sure i understand why honda didn't put the towing package ATF cooler on all ODYs, but that is just me.
i agree with haefr on his observations about compactness, passages, functionality, lower volume of coolant / lubricant, less surface area and location for lowered cooling efficiency...
But I happen to think the average automatic transmission lasts longer than they did back in the sixties.
You bring up a good point...100,000 miles is a LOT of miles and 150,000 miles is even longer. Do you really expect a car manufacturer to warranty a car for that long?
What is reasnoble to you? 300,000 miles? I'm just curious.
My sense is that Honda owners don't want to see Honda fail, hence the owners' vigilance towards transmission and other serious failures even if they're at a single-digit rate.
From a manufacturer's standpoint, it's tempting to dismiss a 2% transmission failure rate because "...after all, we're succeeding 98% of the time..." Not quoting any maker in particular, but I've been in business long enough to hear this statement from mid and top management of companies I've worked for.
Hyundai's recent quality obsession http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_20/b3883054.htm is but one of a number of assaults on Honda's business. Who's to say that if Honda doesn't shrink defect rates soon enough, that a number of us will be defecting ?
Massive sales and new car technology must be contributing to Honda's (and others') defect rates, but, at the end of the day, most consumers will buy the high-value, high-quality product.
I want to keep buying Honda for many reasons (its smart minimalism, for one) - that's why I'd rather badger it for higher standards than making excuses for it.
essentially i expect the transmission to outlast the engine.
i think 150-200K is very reasonable. if the transmission is replaced, i expect the manufacturer to warranty the replacement / rebuilt for the same number of years for the orginal, no ifs ands or buts...
regardless of when it fails, i expect the manufacturer to make the replacement / rebuild a reasonably inconveniencing and priced exercise.
when the fail rate or longevity is questionable, i do not expect the dealerships to be making money on the consumer. the dealership deserves to be compensated from appropriate supports provided from the manufacturer and not to pass the costs along to us.
My '03 Accord, EX-V-6 is doing fine. Then I go turn it over one day, and the Radio and control knobs do not light up. Could hardly see the radio station led display, very light and barely visible.-- even when i crank my light swtich all the way. The intrument panel lights work, but not the radio or the other knobs in the center light up. Anyone know the cause or soultion for this. Thought it was a fuse at first, but now not sure. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, :confuse:
I guess I don't understand...you expect a car to last forever and if something happens to break, even after extreme miles, you expect it to be fixed for free?
"Roto-Hydramatic"? Never heard of it. (;)) Are you referring to the torque converter-equipped 3-sp "Turbo-Hydramatic" transmissions that replaced the original fluid-coupling equipped 4-sp Hydramatics in the sixties? The only reliability problems I've come across with Turbo-Hydramatics were units supplied to Cadillac Division that had variable-vane torque converters that varied torque multiplication on demand. These special torque converters didn't prove reliable in recreational trailer towing - a pastime a significant number of pre-SUV era Caddy owners engaged in. The goal of high initial torque multiplication during acceleration followed by more efficient engine operation once speed was attainted became a reality with a later GM development: lockup torque converters whch are now standard across the board on automatic transmissions.
Anyway, enough strolling down memory lane. Let's talk about Hondas!
"Does anyone know how to turn of the air conditioner, when the defroster is on?"
Your dealer is correct, BUT there is a way to reprogram the control panel to function exactly the way you wish it to. The process requires neither disassembly, nor the use of any tools (well, other than the ignition key in the ignition switch...), and it's completely reversible back to the control panel's current operational status at any time. Follow the instructions at the address below for a one minute step-by-step. (too bad some people won't just answer a question without preaching why you shouldn't have something perform the way you prefer, eh?)
You have a failure of the radio lights. Many other posts complained of the same problem. Sounds like what you need to do is see your Honda dealer. They have been picking up the tab if you make enough noise.
Dealer changed mine for $50.00 to take care of labor. Car was - at 45k miles - out-of-warranty, and service advisor initially declined free replacement because I'd "not taken the car in for service often enough." The alternative was for me to buy the replacement for about $750.00 excluding labor.
Told him that regardless, folks on the internet have gotten "goodwill" replacements from HoA. He/dealership relented, albeit with said $50 labor charge.
After reading up a bit on this problem, it appears that center console lighting (audio, HVAC, seat heater switches) is controlled by a high-defect module nestled inside the audio headunit which, in turn, connects to a "multiplex" wiring system (multiple functions on minimal wiring). Nothing wrong with the audio unit per se, but the center lighting module just happens to be integrated with it.
The multiplex system was also upgraded during the headunit change.
Tip: Print posts on subject to show dealer, ask for multiplex update, and assert zero payment. The way these goodwill accommodations go, the dealer gets 100% reimbursement from HoA.
> "not taken the car in for service often enough."
If a part is defection for one person, it is defective for another. If the dealer will have the factory cover it for one, they should have it covered for another.
The idea that you should be blackmailed to bring your car in for service rather than saving money yourself is awful. I do all my own oil changes and other service. I deserve to be treated equal with any other owner with the same defect.
I agree. If the factory will goodwill a repair for one, they should do it for all.
If, on the other hand it's a car long out of warranty and the dealer (not the factory) is going to have to pay for the repair that may be different story.
We can agree to disagree on this. I see the dealer's side. But in my case my dealer knows I do my own service until I hit the big ones. Then I have been back to them. If they don't value my business under warranty and for the new cars and for the occasional wheel bearing, heater blower electronic control, replacement lock cylinder for steering column, etc., I have the wrong dealer if they're going to hold that against me.
I have a 98 Accord EX 90,000 miles. One day all the lights on the dash came on-all doors open, trunk open etc when in fact I was driving and car was driving fine. Went to Advance Auto. Did code check said it was electrical. Took it to GA dealer who came back with $2500 bill to fix. EGR Valve replace(have already done this once at dealer), timing belt and water pump. Said lights on dash probably due to alternator going out and should get new one but might be the spark plugs which have never been changed. Also said 2 motor mounts need to be replaced and 1 other cracked. All told with labor $2500. First was told if I don't do anything have alternator changed. Then on subsequent call told if I don't do anything have timing belt changed. Any advice and/or recommendations on price and/or where to service in Metro Atlanta? Thanks
yes, the only thing you got "right" was the quotation.
i expect the transmission to outlast the engine. if the serviceable life of the engine is 200-250-280K with excellent care, yes i expect the transmission to still be operating properly when it too is cared for in an excellent prescribed (or better) manner.
if and/or when it fails, regardless of the mileage, i expect the dealership to make it financially reasonable for it to be fixed or replaced. it should not cost 20% of the purchase price of the vehicle to do so.
if it dies before 250K lets say, and the owner wishes to get it fixed or replaced, i expect the manufacturer to make it a non-painful exercise (time, inconvenience, money) for the owner.
never ever do I believe I wrote (or even implied) "free".
honda needs to make bullet-proof transmissions of the highest quality and performance in keeping with many other aspects of their designs...yes, that is my expectation. if they fail, my expectation is the manfacturer will take care of the customer...yes, that is my expectation too. to some extent, we see this being done by honda, and it is re-assuring to a degree.
i'd like and expect all manufacturer's to do the same, but honestly, this expectation for honda in particular is a bit self-serving, since that's all my wife and i drive (unless we must rent).
If the timing belt hasn't been changed, I'd say replacing that and the alternator is urgent. At 90k, the original timing belt can go anytime, resulting in $800+ repairs.
On the alternator, make sure it's not just a broken drive belt; it will cause the same "all dash lights on" scenario.
Motor mounts - unless there's heavy thudding and clanking from the engine area during acceleration, they should still be good at 90k. Racing and otherwise driving the car hard, especially if it's a manual transmission, could however break the mounts prematurely.
All told, here's a rough repair estimate:
1) Timing Belt & Water Pump Replacement: $550 2) Alternator: $350 3) Engine Mounts: $750
Total: $1650
The job list is fairly common for a reputable Honda specialist shop. I'd make sure that they have liability insurance though in case something goes wrong.
Try bidding out the work to 3 shops for the best deal too.
probably i have gotten them confused. but...the other cars i've driven have had transmissions that all lasted at least 150K - i've never had to replace one, ever.... i've sold or traded my cars before they've failed (well, one was stolen) and they have all had excellent life left. I don't know, but 200K doesn't seem absurd for a honda.
If the alternator goes bad, the charge light would come up while you are driving. And soon, the car will stop running. Check if the alternator puts out 14V+ at the battery while the engine is running. Call different Honda dealers to give you the estimate on t-belt & water pump. The difference could be 100+ between dealers.
My transmission is starting to make a soft clunking sound if I lift off of the gas while (or just before ) it is shifting. Under moderate or hard acceleration the shifts are very smooth and quick with no unusual noises.
Has anybody had this happen? Is something wrong, or will tranny fluid change help things?
Comments
Regarding the original poster's comment about never buying a Honda again...well, let's face it. No one expects a transmission to fail on a 3 year old car. Add to that the fairly common string of posts here about Honda transmission issues. Adding in the "hassle factor" (car is out of commission, arguing with the dealer, setting up a rental or what-have-you), I can't blame the person for saying they won't buy another one.
People say that all the time - I've said it about my Honda dealer (a more arrogant and condescending sales department I have never seen) although I would still buy another Honda if it fit my needs, albeit from any other dealership than my current one. I see it all the time on a bunch of the boards here on Edmunds.
But, stuff happens to the very best of cars. I'm just happy to hear Honda did the "right thing" in this case.
Unfortunatly, a decision that was not appreciated by the owner.
A transmission should last longer than that providing a 17 year old didn't use it to drag race.
I don't think the poster deserves this kind of criticism. Did they indicate the car had been abused in some way. I think transmissions should last up to 70000 before random failures start happening. Honda has had some problems with transmissions. This is something they should take care of. People expect transmissions to equal the reputation the car earned during the 90s.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
that said...i imagine there are people like myself that expect that should the transmission fail, they aren't looking at a $2K-4K (or more) repair bill.
the thing is - transmissions are failing (many manufacturers) even when vehicles are being driven carefully and the maintenance schedules are followed.
it's plain good business for a manufacturer to stand behind the product. that builds brand loyalty and maintains a quality, customer-centric image.
if the transmission portion of the vehicles longevity is questionable, the manufacturer needs to make it much less painful for the owner to get the problem fixed, or work to develop a more bullet-proof sub-system that doesn't fail early.
Am not sure the tranny was EVER flushed or even drained...
My mechanic was not sure what I am talking about when mentioning Honda having "their own tranny"... Why, doesn't Toyota have their own, and so do GM and Ford, he asked...
Well, he's right actually... What's so special about Honda's?
BTW, he flushed my tranny with the Honda ATF and THE CAR DOES SHIFT SMOOTHER, ESPECIALLY WHEN DOWN-SHIFTING!
Together with 2 new tires, replacing a 6 years old pair that was in good shape but VERY noisy... HEY, MY GOOD OLD '95 ACCORD NOW RUNS ALMOST AS SMOOTH AS MY BRAND NEW '05 ACCORD!!!
When I was 17 or 18, I distroyed the transmission in my parent's three year old Buick one night. I limped it home, parked it in the garage and went to bed.
The next day I heard my parents talking about how the Buick wasn't "shifting right".
I kept my mouth shut and got away with it but I do think about that long ago night.
One of those things I'm not proud of.
I am shocked that you weren't closely interrogated at that point... :surprise: I know I would have been under similar circumstances!
The following week, while driving home from a date in the VW, I hit a skunk.
That REALLY got my dad's attention the next morning!
I apologize for my error. I didn't realize we were serving as Dr. Phil's confessions about your past transgression. I also hurt my dad's manual transmission by letting a girl friend shift. She didn't have it all the way in gear and it chipped a tooth when I let out on the clutch. Oh the memories.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That's the kind of reliability I expect. But I don't think anyone builds cars like that anymore.
Was it Toyota that had the ad campaign searching for cars that had the most mileage?
I would test the door lock switch first. My guess is the control unit is failing.
I will be giving the car away next month when the inspection is up.
As to manual transmissions, again front wheel drive vehicles complicate their assumed less stressful lives. The need for compact packages also means smaller working parts. Gears aren't that big a problem, but the synchronizers which allow shifting without double-clutching, take a lot more stress in doing their job since they have to be smaller, too, in these compact packages.
In the interest of efficiency and environmental concerns, we're demanding midgets to take on the work of longshoremen. Anyone desiring ultimate transmission life in modern cars should take the normal service recommendation of having its fluid changed out at 100,000 mile intervals with a grain of salt. Consider using the severe service schedule of 30,000 miles instead.
People didn't expect them to last 200,000 miles and they didn't! It was a pretty normal thing to have your Powerglide or Hydramatic overhauled at 70,000 miles.
That was pretty much the norm. Same with engines. A car with 100,000 miles was considered "worn out" and they were!
RD
I have a new '05 Accord LX bought in june 2005.
I am experiencing the same forward jerk problem at lower gears especially when the car is changing to a higher gear.
Just wondering if you had a chance to resolve the problem and what it might have been ?
Ajay
So is this "operating as it should be"???
I could really use the help. Thanks for your time.
We remember things differently. Back in the "old days" the Chrysler Torqueflights were the best out there. The old 4 speed Hydramatics were tough too. The later Roto-Hydramatics were trouble. The cast iron Powerglides were pretty good but the aluminum Powerglides that cane out in 1962 would go through clutches around 60-70,000 miles. I had one. Chevy made a junk automatic called a Turboglide from 1957-1961. Pure junk. Most got converted to a Powerglide.
Nowadays, it's pretty rare to lose a transmission before 100,000 miles When they do, people come here and complain. Funny, though because Chrysler products seem to be the worst now.
This is true for ANY car: Basically, the AC needs to go on, 'cause the idea is to DRY the air in the car and thus get rid of the fog on the inside of the windshield and the rest of the windows.
Also, it's a good way to keep your AC system in good shape, by activating it periodically during the Winter, instead of leaving it "dead" for several long months.
Don't worry about it too much. Usually you don't need to drive with the Defrost on for a long time, anyhow.
i think someone with a failure, or two (or more) of the transmission before 100K has every right (regardless of manufacturer) to come here and complain. and it's useful for people reading the forums to know that these failures are occurring.
personally, i'm a proponent of a system that would force manufacturers to reveal to the public the incident metrics for service of components such as these. that way, the low-performers in terms of parts longevity would have more motivation to improve manufacturing quality, and design. if a tranny goes at 100 or 150, i DO expect a manufacturer to pick up a good deal of the tab. the replacement shouldn't cost 20% (or MORE) of a new vehicle.
isell, to be honest, i'm not sure i understand why honda didn't put the towing package ATF cooler on all ODYs, but that is just me.
i agree with haefr on his observations about compactness, passages, functionality, lower volume of coolant / lubricant, less surface area and location for lowered cooling efficiency...
You bring up a good point...100,000 miles is a LOT of miles and 150,000 miles is even longer. Do you really expect a car manufacturer to warranty a car for that long?
What is reasnoble to you? 300,000 miles? I'm just curious.
From a manufacturer's standpoint, it's tempting to dismiss a 2% transmission failure rate because "...after all, we're succeeding 98% of the time..." Not quoting any maker in particular, but I've been in business long enough to hear this statement from mid and top management of companies I've worked for.
Hyundai's recent quality obsession http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_20/b3883054.htm
is but one of a number of assaults on Honda's business. Who's to say that if Honda doesn't shrink defect rates soon enough, that a number of us will be defecting ?
Massive sales and new car technology must be contributing to Honda's (and others') defect rates, but, at the end of the day, most consumers will buy the high-value, high-quality product.
I want to keep buying Honda for many reasons (its smart minimalism, for one) - that's why I'd rather badger it for higher standards than making excuses for it.
i think 150-200K is very reasonable. if the transmission is replaced, i expect the manufacturer to warranty the replacement / rebuilt for the same number of years for the orginal, no ifs ands or buts...
regardless of when it fails, i expect the manufacturer to make the replacement / rebuild a reasonably inconveniencing and priced exercise.
when the fail rate or longevity is questionable, i do not expect the dealerships to be making money on the consumer. the dealership deserves to be compensated from appropriate supports provided from the manufacturer and not to pass the costs along to us.
I guess I don't understand...you expect a car to last forever and if something happens to break, even after extreme miles, you expect it to be fixed for free?
Maybe I misunderstood you?
"Roto-Hydramatic"? Never heard of it. (;)) Are you referring to the torque converter-equipped 3-sp "Turbo-Hydramatic" transmissions that replaced the original fluid-coupling equipped 4-sp Hydramatics in the sixties? The only reliability problems I've come across with Turbo-Hydramatics were units supplied to Cadillac Division that had variable-vane torque converters that varied torque multiplication on demand. These special torque converters didn't prove reliable in recreational trailer towing - a pastime a significant number of pre-SUV era Caddy owners engaged in. The goal of high initial torque multiplication during acceleration followed by more efficient engine operation once speed was attainted became a reality with a later GM development: lockup torque converters whch are now standard across the board on automatic transmissions.
Anyway, enough strolling down memory lane. Let's talk about Hondas!
Your dealer is correct, BUT there is a way to reprogram the control panel to function exactly the way you wish it to. The process requires neither disassembly, nor the use of any tools (well, other than the ignition key in the ignition switch...), and it's completely reversible back to the control panel's current operational status at any time. Follow the instructions at the address below for a one minute step-by-step.
crv16, "Honda Accord Sedan" #17856, 14 Sep 2005 8:12 am
Mrbill
Told him that regardless, folks on the internet have gotten "goodwill" replacements from HoA. He/dealership relented, albeit with said $50 labor charge.
After reading up a bit on this problem, it appears that center console lighting (audio, HVAC, seat heater switches) is controlled by a high-defect module nestled inside the audio headunit which, in turn, connects to a "multiplex" wiring system (multiple functions on minimal wiring). Nothing wrong with the audio unit per se, but the center lighting module just happens to be integrated with it.
The multiplex system was also upgraded during the headunit change.
Tip: Print posts on subject to show dealer, ask for multiplex update, and assert zero payment. The way these goodwill accommodations go, the dealer gets 100% reimbursement from HoA.
Especially a long term customer who doesn't just use a dealer for warranty work.
And, I asked the shop about this problem and I was told..." Yeah, I think we've had one or two come in with this problem"
Not that widespread.
If a part is defection for one person, it is defective for another. If the dealer will have the factory cover it for one, they should have it covered for another.
The idea that you should be blackmailed to bring your car in for service rather than saving money yourself is awful. I do all my own oil changes and other service. I deserve to be treated equal with any other owner with the same defect.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If, on the other hand it's a car long out of warranty and the dealer (not the factory) is going to have to pay for the repair that may be different story.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You know your store will be the one eating the repair bill.
Two customers...
One go's to Jiffy Lube and the discount chains for everything except the things they aren't smart enough or equipped to fix.
The other customer has three Hondas. All three are maintained by the book at your store.
It's not a matter of "holding that against you". It's a matter of simply making a business decision.
That's all I'm saying...
Thanks
I need to get spark plugs and timing belt done in Atl. Any recommendations on where to do it and pricing?
Thanks,
Aaron
anng3@hotmail.com
i expect the transmission to outlast the engine. if the serviceable life of the engine is 200-250-280K with excellent care, yes i expect the transmission to still be operating properly when it too is cared for in an excellent prescribed (or better) manner.
if and/or when it fails, regardless of the mileage, i expect the dealership to make it financially reasonable for it to be fixed or replaced. it should not cost 20% of the purchase price of the vehicle to do so.
if it dies before 250K lets say, and the owner wishes to get it fixed or replaced, i expect the manufacturer to make it a non-painful exercise (time, inconvenience, money) for the owner.
never ever do I believe I wrote (or even implied) "free".
honda needs to make bullet-proof transmissions of the highest quality and performance in keeping with many other aspects of their designs...yes, that is my expectation. if they fail, my expectation is the manfacturer will take care of the customer...yes, that is my expectation too. to some extent, we see this being done by honda, and it is re-assuring to a degree.
i'd like and expect all manufacturer's to do the same, but honestly, this expectation for honda in particular is a bit self-serving, since that's all my wife and i drive (unless we must rent).
On the alternator, make sure it's not just a broken drive belt; it will cause the same "all dash lights on" scenario.
Motor mounts - unless there's heavy thudding and clanking from the engine area during acceleration, they should still be good at 90k. Racing and otherwise driving the car hard, especially if it's a manual transmission, could however break the mounts prematurely.
All told, here's a rough repair estimate:
1) Timing Belt & Water Pump Replacement: $550
2) Alternator: $350
3) Engine Mounts: $750
Total: $1650
The job list is fairly common for a reputable Honda specialist shop. I'd make sure that they have liability insurance though in case something goes wrong.
Try bidding out the work to 3 shops for the best deal too.
And soon, the car will stop running. Check if the alternator puts out 14V+ at the battery while the engine is running.
Call different Honda dealers to give you the estimate on t-belt & water pump. The difference could be 100+ between dealers.
Has anybody had this happen? Is something wrong, or will tranny fluid change help things?