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The Mazda 6 seems to be poised to inheirit the mantle of "almost perfect car" unless you consider a sunglass holder rattle that can be fixed by simply opening and closing it a few times a major problem. I know the Accord has growing pains but the 6 seems to have these pains down to a minimum.
Man do I wish the Accord vs. 6 was still up because if the situation was reversed us 6 owners would never hear the end of it. Perhaps Honda rushed the 2003 into production to simply offset pressure caused by the new Altima. Let's be honest folks based on these boards the new Accord has issues. If I was still looking for a new car I would be pretty concerned about this car based on what I've seen here and please don't say that there are more problems because more are being sold because this site tends to attract more car enthusiasts so I would venture to guess that the gap between Accord and 6 owners is much lower than the real world. The # of posts on the Mazda board is almost as high as the Honda board, pretty good considering this car is only a few months old.
Left food in trunk on a camping trip and they found a way in and made a real mess.
The Mazda6 hasn't passed the 10,000 sales mark yet. So it has owners "down to the minimum" also. How do they compare to the Accord which sells that many in less than a week. And even more impressive is that they sell most of them to actual people than any other model in the segment. The reason the Mazda board has so many postings is that the Mazda6 people only have 1 board and they talk about the Accord as much as the Mazda6. The Accord forums are divided into many subsections.
The lack of posts here for a car that sells so well is more telling than anything. I for one don't expect every Honda to roll down the assembly line perfect but considering the mass production of the car if there were even 5% of the last few years production with problems Edmunds would be over loaded.
It's very easy and popular to log on and get your beef on now.
Well that may be true in North America but it sure isn't true everywhere else in the world. The 6 is a hot seller in Europe and Asia where they have been out over a year and they report the same problems that are in N.A. Pretty much nothing! Check out www.Mazdaatenza.com. and all you get are the owners there gushing about their car. Give credit where credit is due. BTW I am a real 6 owner.
Try and comfort the next Accord owner whose car cuts out on the highway with all the impressive sales #'s. If Honda has that same attitude then they should remember 2 words "Ford Taurus". A shooting star in sales that crashed and burned.
Say that this board represents 1\1000th of the buying public. If a few owners on this board have the cars die while driving and steering drift that's alot of people who encounter it in the real world. Something to think about especially when you have kids in the car.
If Honda dealers are arrogant as they appear to be from postings here then a couple of years from now no one will be bragging about Accord sales #'s. I think Honda is starting to get the attitude "it doesn't matter what we put out there just make it as fast as the competitors and it'll sell on reputation.The same attitude Ford had with the Taurus. I guess only time will tell.
As documented by someone on this forum, I believe it was Auburn63, I broke out the throttlebody cleaner and toothbrush and cleaned away the black goop on the throttle plate and that cured the problem. I guess I should make this part of my 60K maintenance routine, as I have been putting this off for a while.
I'm currently @89K+ miles and I plan to replace the plugs soon with copper NGK ZFR5F-11. Has anyone else changed from the plats to copper on their I-4. The engine still starts quickly and runs smoothly, but 90K is a nice round number to remember.
Other than a few intermittent rattles that I've had since day 1, this car has been remarkable to this point.
I put Bridgestone Turanza LS-H on the front @81K and am very pleased with the improvement in wet traction and quietness on rough concrete.
How about it, can anyone top 89K miles on an 01 model?
I just find it amusing that when the new 6 and Altima came out alot of warnings were issued on some boards about buyer beware, brand new model wait until it's 2nd or 3rd year of production when they get all the bugs out. This apparently did not include the 2003 Accord as many posts stated that it's "Honda" they're always reliable, doesn't apply. Now when problems arise the excuse being used is it's a new model, teething pains et al. Sounds pretty convenient.
From the accolades that the new Accord is getting from nearly everyone, this is obviously not true.
As far as the engine dying on the highway is concerned, sure, that's not great for the person to whom it happened, but let's not go off the deep end and turn an isolated report into an epidemic. There's nothing out there to warrant that... it's just promoting FUD.
One interesting thing about the drifting... to my knowledge, there hasn't been a single report about that from the press despite all of the testing that's been done. Perhaps it too isn't the epidemic that some are assuming it is. I'm not trying to say that these aren't problems... they most certainly are. But if some members of the Accord forum are "in denial", going to the opposite extreme with unwarranted conjecture is certainly no better.
If a couple months production of the Accord may have had a few bugs that equates to a possible 60,000 Accords that may have a higher defect rate than usual. But if the same thing happens to the Mazda6, hey they only sold like 2000 in the first two months. To have a defect rate you have to put a few on the road. It's just not happening. Additionally the Mazda6's overseas are built over there. Ours are built here in the U.S. Just like the Focus, it can make a world of difference.
I'm not saying that the people who are reporting drifting problems knew about them before they took delivery. But they may not have noticed it during their test drive... some things can be quite subtle, and a test drive doesn't reveal everything about a car. So I'll remain curious about the lack of press on this... if you disagree, fine, that's your right.
I'm not suggesting "sweeping it under the rug". But implying that this issue is some kind of harbinger of the demise of Honda quality is really pushing it to an extreme that the circumstances are far from warranting.
Isn't the Accord built here? I guess that would make a world of difference as well to their quality.
talon95: CR does do an more indepth study but they base reliabilty on long term usage. Many cars they test have circles change color over time because they can only truly determine the car's quality after several years. The new protege had average ratings when it first came but changed to above average after 2 years based on data. New 1st year models are generally rated based on previous model history because it's impossible to do otherwise.
That's true, but that didn't stop them from saying that based on previous models, they expect the new Accord to be much better than average in reliability. I can just about guarantee you that this drifting problem will not change that, and that it will be fixed.
I could go thru the board and list them all but it will take too long and it's time to go to bed.
To tell you the truth CR is taking an educated guess and they would be the first ones to admit that it's not an exact science. I would take real world situations that are contained here than a magazine. Sorry!
Based on past experience, I can just about guarantee that all of these issues will be addressed. They are new design teething issues, just about all new designs have them, and they don't speak to overall reliability. Despite Honda's well deserved reputation for reliability, even they aren't immune to this. This type of issue existed in the first model year of the previous generation Accord, and that didn't stop that car from turning out to be top ranked for reliability. I'm confident that the same will be true for this generation of Accord.
I'm still going to stand by my position that, if the press hasn't reported on it at all, while the drifting may not be isolated, it may also not be widespread. Nothing at all has been said to make me change that position. I agree that the real life reports here are of more importance than a predicted reliability score by a magazine. Where I have an issue is when these typical teething problems are trumped up as "proof" that the new Accord has overall quality problems.
There are more than a average amount of "teething" problems on the 2003. Some seem to be serious and some not. Teething or no teething when you compare it to the Mazda 6 which seems to be not exhibiting these "growing pains" then you may be setting yourself up for a fall. Honda does have a great reputation but it seems they were sloppy in the development of the car. If these problems get worse over time, don't kid yourself those who use to swear by an Accord will jump off the bandwagon real quick and hop on a Camry, 6 or Altima before you know it. The midsize market is way too competitive to be screwing around with your product. Even Hyundai is a contender now, who woulda thunk it 5 years ago.
The lack of press on this is nothing new. The Dodge Caravan IMO is a lemon, everybody I know who has one have always had numerous problems with it yet it still is the #1 seller due to the fact that it is still cheaper than the superior Odyssey and Sienna. But all you hear in the press is about the Caravan being the #1 selling van in N.A. and not the reliabilty problems. The Accord does not have that going for them. Prices for midsize cars are all pretty similar for various packages. Don't get me wrong I'm not calling the Accord a lemon by any means or comparing it to the Caravan, the Accord is still a great car for the price but there is very little room for error due to the competition and allegiances can change very quickly. Don't underestimate the fickleness of the consumer. Something Honda should consider as well as they consider reliability and build quality the selling point of this car and their trump card!
When I first perused this board I was shocked at the variety of problems the car is exhibiting so soon after release because I am also conditioned to think Honda is #1 for reliability. As a propective buyer I would be legitmately concerned about buying this car. I know other people feel the same as the only reason I looked at this board initially was because someone posted that they were thinking about buying a 6 after being scared off by what they saw here. Word of mouth can also travel quickly in the real world.
I'm not bashing Honda I was posting what I thought was honest. I honestly hope Honda gets these problems straightened out for their owneers.
That includes Honda, BMW, General Electric, Home Depot or, long ago, the Roman Empire.
What's critical, however, is a system that encourages competition for the benefit of consumers, and it's something that we're enjoying.
Before long, who can tell if Hyundai won't become the top carmaker ?
As a consumer, personally I'm content sitting back and letting carmakers fight for my business. That said, you probably can tell that my loyalties are with no particular car company even if I'm happy with our Honda and Toyota products.
As for your example about the Dodge Caravan, that has absolutely no bearing regarding my point. I'm not talking about reporting about sales volume, I'm talking about reviews and comparison test. The magazines to which I'm referring prefer the Odyssey over the Caravan by a significant degree, the relative sales volume notwithstanding. So your comment doesn't apply to my point at all.
imidazol97: I'm not even going to bother to respond to you... I find the condescension and arrogance of your post to be offensive, and therefore it's not worth the time and energy to respond.
Since it seems like civil and reasonable discourse is no longer possible in this forum, I'm going to end my participation in this discussion now.
Only I believe the car should be tight as new
and possibly may develop noises as it ages and
the miles rack up.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
talon95: My point with the Caravan analogy is that the Caravan can get away with their quality issues because it is an appreciably cheaper car than the Odyssey and alot of consumers see it as a risk they're willing to take to save thousands when they buy. I do think Honda makes the best vans but people I know who buy Caravans simply say they bought it because it was alot cheaper than the Ody even though in the long run the Ody would have ended up costing less when you factor in reliability. The Accord has less room for error and cannot afford quality issues, the competition is too cutthroat and no one sedan is much more or less than the others.
TORRANCE, Calif., Nov. 8 /PRNewswire/ -- This statement is being issued by
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.:
In survey results publicized by Consumer Reports, the 2002 Toyota Camry was rated average due to complaints about minor issues with some aspects of the car's interior and exterior trim.
Toyota responded to customer reports of uncharacteristic squeaks, rattles and loose trim in early production of the redesigned 2002 Camry. Internal surveys and independent reports confirm Toyota's confidence that the issues have since been resolved and that Camry initial quality is back to its normal high levels. Functional reliability is not an issue. In fact, Camry scored
well above average in all major operational categories of Consumer Reports' survey including engine, transmission, brake and electrical systems, etc.
Camry remains a recommended model and Toyota and Lexus models continue to be at or near the top of their segments as rated by Consumer Reports and many other independent quality, reliability and customer satisfaction surveys.
SOURCE Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
There may be "no excuse for cars to rattle like that", but the fact of the matter is, even those considered to be among the best exhibit these kinds of problems early out. Toyota apparently got through it, and I'm totally confident that Honda will too. The Camry is still in the running despite these early problems, so I suggest that your "little room for error" observation will have little impact as long as Honda addresses the problems.
I understand your point about the Caravan and it's a point well taken, but it still is irrelevant to my "press" point.
First year gremlins: yeah thats what I don't understand people rushing to buy a brand new body style. I would wait until the kinks are worked out in the car and buy it in its 2nd year. I did have a car in its first year(98 626)and there was water from coming down on the floor on the passenger side of the car the 3rd year I owned it. My dad fixed it for me. With that said that it was probably a first year bug. The car only had one other problem: dead battery. I had no choice I needed a car. I had crashed my Ford Mustang and the Transmission was broke from the result of the accident. The car dealer gave me a good deal on the Mazda. Couldn't say no. I have an Acura and people who bought the CL in its first year were complaning about problems. I have an 02 and I don't have any problems with it.
Now about the Caravan I could care less about the Odessy and comparing to it the Caravan. There is the MPV to choose from too. There is just not two choices. I'll add the Sienna to the list too.
Same with the lose center console...they replaced with a new one but it is still loose.
I was very harsh with them and advised them that their quality is going down and probably lost me as their customer....they could not care less. I have been with Honda since 1975 and own 3 hondas and one Legend right now.
I will dump the 2002 coupe and will give the new Acura TRX one final chance.
I do not think they have made one good car since the Legends!
Could people who are having trouble and post in this forum give the first character of their VIN? This might show something.
Or again, it might not.
The dreaded trnsmission debacle didn't hurt resale. I doubt a couple months of higher-rate-than-usual rattles will hurt it either.
There was nothing wrong woth the Toyota engine. It was more a required maintenance problem. The owners manual had incorrect info regarding maintenance requirements.
I'm deleting my posts from earlier today. They were horrible. I couldn't even understand them.
I'm tired of hearing about the Legend already and how Honda hasn't been good since then. The Legend was defunct my freshman year of High School. That was like a whole lifetime ago for me. My big beef with Honda lately is their styling. Its down to Toyota levels. Their dumping their younger buyers they had in the 90's in favor of 50 year olds. Not a good move. Toyota's sales have been down lately. You can only sell plain jane cars for so long and after a certain amount of time nobody wants them anymore.
As far as Toyota's engine problems are concerned doy you believe every single owner who had sludge didn't do proper maintinence on their car? I don't believe that.
As far as Honda's building cars in North America thats another cop out. I could care less where the thing is built. Even If its built in Iceland I don't want any rattles I can hear. Its totally unacceptable.
I agree first year models tend to be problematic. True for all cars, so no change to honda status (as long as the problems are addressed in subsequent years).
All cars have some problems. Anyone check the passat forums for the electrical and coil problens. The Camry/es300 sludge and tranny problems weren't very nice. The 6 has not sold enough yet to have a record one way or the other so it can't be attacked or annnointed as perfect.
Buyers will often forgive proven brands for a few (if corrected promptly with good customer service)defects because of a final feature that none of you mention. This feature is perceived as (often) lacking in the korean cars, nissans,and to a certain extent the 6. That is one of the many reasons buyers keep coming back to camcord in spite of occassional misteps. This feature is refinement.
Btw, the complexity of new designs laden with computer sensors and comfort/safety/performance features not present in cars 5-10 years ago probably makes zero defect cars (that are all new designs, not imported versions previously field tested in home or different markets)an unrealistic or impossible goal. Especially at the oh so affordable prices we have been spoiled on. No free lunch, cost benefit trade offs anyone. I hate rattles as much as anyone, but if that is the worst complaint we have, it shows how spoiled we have become and how good (and cheap)the family sedan market has become. Maybe if $5-$10k is added to prices we would see more rattle free first year cars.
The current cable is really rusty. I see at the base of the battery, there seems to be bracket which opens up and there it seems like I can replace about the top 1.5 to 2 ft. of the cable. Is that right? And if so, how do I go about replacing the cable.
Thanks,
My '03 has a couple of squeaks. It has also been extraordinarily cold this winter and every car I've ever owned has squeaked and rattled a bit more in the winter, when the cold makes things less flexible. Does it have any more rattles than my wife's '02 Accord does, or than my '02 Accord did? No. Do I think the squeaks are clear evidence of Honda's failing reliability? No. Especially when I consider the '99 Malibu I drove, which had 4 brake jobs in its first 8,000 miles, including complete replacement of the pads and rotors at 4,000 miles. That car was in its 3rd model year, and my dealer's service manager told me that Chevrolet had already reformulated the brake pads 4 times to try and solve the problem (premature wear and warpage of the rotors). That I would consider an indication of failing quality and reliability, and a significant safety concern.
Hondas are not perfect. Nothing designed or made by man will be. People need to realize that. But they are quite a bit better than pretty much everything else out there.
A scroll through the message boards will reveal that no car is trouble-free. As said before, condisering the number of Accords that are sold if there were a significant number of vehicles being problematic Edmunds would be overflowing considering there are already 125,000 or more Accords on the road. If 10% of people were experiencing problems and 10% of those people posted on Edmunds you would have 1,250 people on Edmunds complaining. That's not the case.
carlos: The seats are comfortable to me. You may want to try some type of seat pad.