Honda Accord Problems 2000-2005

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Comments

  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Regarding the oil consumption mentioned above. Is there any way that oil could be going from the engine to the exhaust without first going through the combustion chamber? This might explain the clean plugs and lack of blue smoke. Is there any kind of valve that connects the two that could be broken?

    Is there some way that an oil passageway got blocked between my two checks and held some oil up in the engine? Resulting in a low second reading.

    Just hopefull guesses!

    As soon as I drive far enough I will check the level again and post results.

    Thanks again for any comments and suggestions.
    Dudley
  • auburn63auburn63 Member Posts: 1,162
    I think that you should go to a dealer and let them know that your car seems to be burning oil and could they check it out and start an oil consumption test.This will start the warranty paper trail while you are still under warranty.You may also want to try and find out if the original owner has any service records.We have not seen any of these with any major leaks at our dealer so it would be my guess also that if it is going through oil then it most likely is the oil rings on the pistons.These sometimes (if out of warranty) can be attempted to be cleaned.But first try the consumption test and remember you will be told that 1 quart every 1,ooo miles is normal.Good luck
  • purina1_uspurina1_us Member Posts: 6
    auburn 63, thanks for responding. re 98 exvl check engine light. i took the car back in and and the dealer said it was the code for the egr valve again. don't know it there is a particular number or letter code??? this time they agreed it was idling poorly, and installed a new egr valve. i drove the car about 15 miles and it was idling alot smoother. it's the wife car and she has not complained since thursday evening. if this was the "fix" is it common to replace an egr valve after 3 years, 31,000 miles on this car? also with all the other little nagging problems (window regulators, 3 fuel sending units, etc) we are concerned about the reliability going forward. the warranty expired on 12/1. i have owned several hondas over the last 14 yrs (my wife's first one), and this one has had more problems than we would have expected.
  • auburn63auburn63 Member Posts: 1,162
    I have seen several EGR lift sensors go bad and since you can't get the sensor seperately you must replace the EGR valve assy.As with anything that goes wrong it is really luck of the draw in most cases. Not to give you the idea that you have a bad car, just that you have had some things go wrong. I wouldn't worry about the reliability of the car I am sure it will be fine.I have been with Honda for years and have no reason to believe that the reliability will change.Good luck with yours in the years to come.
  • sallyfishsallyfish Member Posts: 3
    (This topic was on #1900 and got moved here. A quick orientation: The dealer reported at a regular 30,000 mile service that the rear brakes where shot and needed to be replace. Being a previous toyota owner and never having had to replace the brakes in over 100,000 miles I was a bit ...over heated!)

    I was back at the dealer to fix a rattle in the glove box and while I had a mechanic out on a test drive I asked for more info about the brakes.

    He reported that is wasn't unusual to replace the rear at 30k. He stated this was due to the fact that when you brake on this vehicle you're using both front and rear at the same time (so more wear on the rear). Also, the rear brakes are smaller than the front.

    This brake configuration is apparently new to the 98' models.

    While I'll accept it's new, all brakes used simultaneously, ..., I'm still left with questions.

    Some have reported that if they were truely worn I would have heard some sqeaking when the brakes were applied. I heard none. I did notice that the brakes seemed a bit soft prior to the service but if you really stomped on the brakes they still worked just fine.

    Unfortunately, my husband drives the car so I can't report if the 'soft brakes' was resolved with the service.
  • auburn63auburn63 Member Posts: 1,162
    30,000 is a little soon for the normal but not out of the question. I have seen some not last past 20,000 but most make it to the 40's and beyond.It is possible that your rear brake pads were low but not hitting the sensors yet and the tech thought they were close enough to sell and save you a trip back. Without doing a little math it is hard to tell how much longer pads will make it if they are close.
    As far as how the sensors work. Once the sensors start hitting the rotor you will hear a squeal noise while backing up that will stop when you hit the brakes.Then once the pads are worn out and the metal backing plate that they are glued to starts coming through you will start to hear noises while braking.Then if you wait to long you will hear a grind that will sound like train brakes. By the way that's a bad thing :)
    So try to have a look at them during the first stage if possible.
  • tony106tony106 Member Posts: 3
    Shortly after receiving a written notice from Honda about the TSB regarding the possible oil seal shift resulting in sudden loss of oil, this exact thing happened to by 1996 accord, leaving me with a seized engine. I'm confused about Honda's financial responsibility. The notice states that after Jan 1, 2003 repair of damages due to the seal failure would be at my expense. I thought this implied Honda would repair the damage before 2003, but needless to say, they don't agree. They have asked me what I think is "fair". I've been quoted the cost of $5,500 for the engine and $1,000 for labor. This is the price to the consumer, after everyone makes a profit - since I have no idea of the real cost to Honda, I don't know what to ask for.

    This is the second case by dealer has seen in the last month, so it must be happening elsewhere as well. Does Honda really negotiate these things on a case-by-case basis? If so, does anyone know what others have gotten? If not, any suggestions as to what would be fair? thanks
  • agostevagostev Member Posts: 4
    Ever since I bought my Accord V6 EX 2000 I have problems with interior rattle noises. They come from dashboard, rear seat/window area, driver's door. I already took my car to Larry Hopkins Honda in Sunnyvale, CA but the problem is that they suggest test drive with a mechanic and during the test drive the noises disappear of course ( nevertheless they fixed some constant noise from the front passenger seat). Does anybody know some auto center where they have vibration test stand or something like that so that they can find and fix those noises once and forever? I know some other people who are ready to pay pretty high amount in order to fix rattle noises in interior of their cars and I am surprised that nobody is doing that.
  • ferdmferdm Member Posts: 13
    I've had my Canadian Accord EX-V6 for about 5 days now. (almost 700 km's already! =]) Everything's running great except for one minor "problem". I've discovered that the leather seat heaters are reversed. Ie. the left side controls the passenger seat and the right side controls the driver's seat. Is this the way it's supposed to be or were they installed reversed? I checked the manual but it didn't say anything about which control was for which seat.
  • copytechcopytech Member Posts: 71
    If the interior noises are a problem, take it by a good stereo shop. They spend all day taking interior panels and carpet up to add dynamat, or sound suppression spray, while running wires. In other words, most of the good places can have your interior torn out in no time, while adding sound deadening material. The reason I recommend them is when a few woofers are installed, there usually some resonation and noise that occurs as a byproduct. Most customers don't want that noise, and pay extra to sound deaden the interior to reduce those noises. Just an idea.
  • rttijerinarttijerina Member Posts: 1
    I have a 96 Accord anniversary edition, my SRS (airbag)light has come on, according to the dealer it was due to the battery being low. The technician said that only the dealer with a diagnostic computer could reset the light, and that it would cost approx $75. Is this correct, is there a way for myself to reset the light, and is there any danger in leaving the light on?
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Thanks to all who responded to my oil consumption problem in post #566. It turns out that my wife had just driven the car about a mile before I checked the oil (I found this out when I went to recheck to see how I was doing again and I was about .6 quart over) and the outside temp was about 20 degrees so the oil never warmed up. The engine was cold to the touch when I checked it so I didn't realize she had driven the vehicle. Theoil got pumped up into the engine - it just did not have time to get back down being so cold and thick. What a reactionary I was.

    Now my question is did having the oil too high for about 50 miles hurt anything?
  • jeffboy100jeffboy100 Member Posts: 1
    I need to change a headlight on my 1990 Honda Accord. The owner's manual does not tell me how to open the case so I can change the bulb. How do I do that?
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    Don't try to open the case!!! The bulb fits into a socket that goes in from the backside. Don't touch the glass part of the new bulb when installing, because it can shorten the life of the bulb if any oil gets on it.
  • canadianclcanadiancl Member Posts: 1,078
    check out topic 1737 in this conference re: overfilling oil.
  • scimitar15scimitar15 Member Posts: 11
    Auburn63,

    Thanks a bunch for the info. Like I said, I really like the car, just the buzz from the exhust is a bit obnoxiious, not too bad.

    I traded in a Buick Riv, 97 with 34,000 miles for the car. I know this is a maintenance forum, not a comparison but I have to share with you all the differences between the cars. Yea, the Riv was whisper quiet and smooth, but the Accord is not too bad for the size of the vehicle. Surprisingly, the Accord handles most bad roads very well. I do miss the power of the supercharged six.

    Perhaps the biggest difference between the two cars is the fit and finish. The Riv had only 34,000 but when I would go over speed bumps (slowly of course) or go up entrance ramps to a parking of from a street, where the front end and suspension has to tilt up of course as the car goes from a flat street to a slight uphill as it enters the parking lot, the front end would creak and groan. I had the car checked out for bad springs, struts, bushing, etc. but nothing was found to be at fault. The Honda does not do this. All I can ascertain is the build quality of the Accord is much better than the Riv.

    Scimitar15
  • gdoublegdouble Member Posts: 18
    i have a 96 accord ex sedan. i am curious if there have been any recalls on the car since i purchased it in 98. i have a couple of questions

    1) my driver and passenger side windows go down really slow. they sound like they would sound if they were battery powered, and the battery was about to die. however, my rear windows go up/down a lot quicker, and sound normal.

    2) paint is peeling off the driver side mirror. i went to abra auto body, and they said it may be a paint problem. is this true?

    3) i recently had timing belt/water pump replaced. this is the only maintenance outside of oil changes/radiator flush, that i have done on the car. what else should i try to do? (i only plan on having the car til june 2001)
  • fritz1224fritz1224 Member Posts: 398
    There seems to be a recall on the balancer shaft oil seal. I think that is what it's called. Anyway, there have been some posts about catastrophic failure of this seal causing all the oil to be dumped out in a matter of minutes and engine seizing. This only applies to the 4 cylinder I believe.
  • gdoublegdouble Member Posts: 18
    thanks fritz. i looked at the post that someone had about their engine seizing on a 96. i will contact the dealer tomorrow. when reading the post
    an edmunds rep suggested that the person post in this discussion. he stated their was a honda tech that posted in here. if possible, i would like that tech's feedback on my post. bnormann, if you
    have any info, that would be appreciated as well
  • tayatmtayatm Member Posts: 4
    Just wrecked my $3000 dollar 89 Accord ( only
    70,000 miles) Bent Fenders, Hood, Radiator,
    Radiator Support, Headlights, and some unibody (bracket for fender, lights, and radiator support) Do I bang the car back together with mult-colored
    salvage parts and drive for the next 5 years or
    sell as is to a junk yard, and replace?

    Any idea what a wrecked 89 accord with this damage
    is worth to salvage yard with everything perfect
    except the above mentioned parts.
  • auburn63auburn63 Member Posts: 1,162
    As far as the windows go we have found that the Shin Etsu greese(sold at Honda dealers) works the best in the long run and that any silicone based spray works for short repair.The only time this doesn't help is if the window motors are too tired and in that case we replace them.

    I have heard some people complain of paint problems but have not seen any at our dealer that was Honda's fault.If it is just the mirror have someone spray it or replace it depending on the cost of each option.

    As long as you have also changed the oil and trans fluid and had the brakes checked there is nothing else that you need to do at this point.With the exception of the balancer seal recall which may have had an aftermarket version installed on it already since you just had the t-belt done.But have it checked.Good luck ..
  • ilikehondasilikehondas Member Posts: 1
    Throw some junkyard parts on it and rock on. My 88 has 312,000 miles on it and it has never required anything but regular maintenance. These stories of honda engines burning oil are foreign to me. My 97 has 90k mi. with no significant problems.
  • adg44adg44 Member Posts: 385
    I need your opinion on something, if you don't mind. My friend has a 00 EX V6 Coupe (like I did) and we want to take out the resonator. I remember that when I got my AEM cold air intake, that there was both an airbox and a resonator. I'm thinking that if we remove the resonator, that will increase airflow into the MAF, which should increase power. My question is will that affect anything on the car? I doubt it will, but I would like your opinion.

    Thanks
    - Anthony
  • duperduper Member Posts: 127
    My '01 LX hit 2100 miles over the weekend. It's been flawless so far. Milage is slowly improving with each fill-up (haven't have a chance to measure it yet, but last measure at 500 miles was at 22mpg 50/50).

    I wonder when is the time for the first oil change? Some recommend within first 1000 miles, some 1000-3000 miles and some upto 5000 miles. I know that Honda put some special oil in it to help the engine break in better but what should be the right time.
    Also, does everyone rear window defroster defrost all the way to the top? Mine doesn't do it, the top section doesn't get defrost eventhough I see wires. Maybe those are for AM/FM antenna and not for the deforster? Any idea?
    Please advice, thanks, enjoy your Honda
  • tony106tony106 Member Posts: 3
    I've been trying to get my accord fixed after the engine seized following an oil seal shift which Honda sent out a TSB and letter to consumers about. Honda said today that they have a new policy because of all the cases they've seen like this, and they will pay $2,500 toward a rebuilt or used engine. Unfortunately, I have to find the engine! I have absolutely no idea how to go about this - how do I know what I'm getting? Help!
  • markz2kmarkz2k Member Posts: 112
    I have a '00 EXV6 Sedan I bought in June that has a minor electrical anomaly. While driving at night, the headlights/dashboard lights seem very sensitive to electrical loads. Using the power locks or even the turn signals will make the headlights dim a significant amount for a fraction of a second. I had an opportunity to drive an '01 EXV6 Coupe recently, and it didn't do it. It's a minor problem, and I don't really want the dealer tearing into the electrical system unless Honda has already identifed the cause and provided a solution. So, I found this TSB on the NHTSA site, and was wondering if Auburn (or anyone else) can confirm that this TSB does in fact address this issue? If anyone could post the full text of this TSB, I would really appreciate it!

    Thanks!

    Here's the TSB:
    Service Bulletin Number: 000101
    Bulletin Sequence Number: 103
    Date of Bulletin: 0001
    NHTSA Item Number: SB610343
    Make: HONDA
    Model: ACCORD
    Year: 2000
    Component: LIGHTING:GENERAL OR UNKNOWN COMPONENT:INSTRUMENT LIGHTS
    Summary: INFORMATION ON AVOIDING DASHLIGHT FLICKER ON SOME VEHICLES. *TT
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    Maybe I'm missing something obvious about your question, but how about some calls or e-mails to the dealer body? With the Europeans, there is good traffic in rebuilt engines, and the dealers are in the middle of it. And many independents who specialize in Honda in particular or Japanese in general should have a good handle on sources for a rebuilt motor. This should not be like searching for the Holy Grail...
  • ginodginod Member Posts: 2
    I have a 96 accord ex 4 cyl with 70k and it has
    had a cold engine knock to about 30k so far. The
    car performs well and the knock goes away when
    warmed. It seems to be getting louder and I am not
    sure if it is because it is getting colder or if
    there is some sort of problem. Any bulletins out
    about this problem?

    Gino
  • adg44adg44 Member Posts: 385
    Heh, funny that I was having this problem over 8 months ago and when I brought my car in for service over 5 times, they told me that nothing was wrong! That's great....
  • auburn63auburn63 Member Posts: 1,162
    Sorry it took so long for a reply I was away for a few days.
    Anyhow, Honda has stated that the only differance you will have by eliminating the resonator is that it will be louder.Honda doesn't use a mass air flow sensor(maf)that I have ever seen.I havent paid attention to the newer models but I don't remember seeing one.I will have to see if they have added one.If you want the sound then I would say that it doesn't hurt anything but will it help? I don't think you will have a measurable change. I have driven many modified Honda's in the past few years and very few will out due an equal driver in a stock Honda.Now turbo chargers, ECU chips, modified v-tec's and a touch of nitrous,,,now you have a change..lol..have fun
  • auburn63auburn63 Member Posts: 1,162
    markz2k
    The SB numbers they give out don't match what I am use to seeing so I will check the honda computer and see if I can find it. Typicly a SB number is like 00-073 the 00 standing for the year code.So I will see if I can find it.

    ginoid
    Is it a knock or a tap? If it is a knock as stated then it most likely is the crank beerings and there is no SB for them.They tend to wear over time but unless it is really bad then you may not need to worry about it. Honda beerings(with a good maintained car)will usally only wear so far then settle in.They sometimes make noise cold or on light accel but don't get any worse and people drive many more miles with it. If they are really bad or getting worse then you may have to have them checked.If it is a tap then there is a bulletin out for it but the warranty period was still 3 years 36,000.It involves new rocker arm for the #2 cylynder.A valve adjustment can be a short term fix.
  • markz2kmarkz2k Member Posts: 112
    Just wondered if you had a chance to look up that TSB on the Honda computer? I'd like to have a copy of it to show my local dealer next time I take it in. Thanks for any help you can provide...
  • snowmansnowman Member Posts: 540
    If you have the number of TB, you can get them faxed from regional offices. I got mine that way and when I showed it to dealer they were quite surprised
  • motiwalamotiwala Member Posts: 7
    Termy, I need your help with resolving my transmission shudder.. Don't laugh, yeah I'm still going on the issue for 2 years on it now.. email me when you get a chance at maddogv6@yahoo.com ..your help will be greatly appreciated..
  • motiwalamotiwala Member Posts: 7
    I've taken 4 TSBs about a transmission and 2 about my sunshade rattling. Dealers claim my problems are all normal and dont give a crap about TSBs. Especially after the regional district manager has taken a testdrive in my car, no dealership will ever testdrive my car again.

    My opinion is that if you have a problem with your Honda, might as well try selling it cuz you aint getting any help from American Honda.. I've dealt with American Honda for 2 years now and I have two choices: get a lawyer now or sell the car... I'll be better off with another car i think..
  • viswasviswas Member Posts: 2
    I bought a 1996 Honda Accord LX (4 cyl) AT a few weeks ago. The vehicle has 33000 miles on it and is due for the 30K maintenance (some call it the "30K tuneup").

    A Honda dealer has quoted a price of $405 (incl. labor) for the service, and says it will include among other things an inspection of brakes, brake fluid, xmission fluid, distributor cap, drive axle, tire rotation, etc.

    Is this a reasonable quote ?

    I am rather new to this area and am yet to find a (reliable) mechanic here. So, what is the best thing to do ?
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    All that I had the dealer do on my wife's 97 Accord at 30K was a valve adjustment. I changed the oil and sparkplugs. It is also a good practice to change the transmission fluid at this time, but I waited until 60K. I think that my dealer charges around $300 for the full treatment at 30K.
  • ginodginod Member Posts: 2
    I am installing a remote starter in a 96 Honda Accord ex and need to tap into the courtesy light. The instructions say to tap into the black white 20pin gray connector under the driver’s side dash right side of column. I tested this wire by using a test lamp that was grounded and it lights on when the door is closed (dome light off) however it shuts off when the door is open and the dome light comes on. My question is it ok to tap into this wire? When the remote sends it signal to turn the dome light on it will send a ground to this wire. Will that cause a short because it seems that there was power in that line as the test lamp would light when the door was closed?
  • copytechcopytech Member Posts: 71
    Nope, it won't short it. It's a negative trigger domelight (as with most asian vehicles) Some vehicles have diodes to isolate the left and right sides of the vehicle in relation to the domelight so you want to make sure that this wire "sees" all of the doors. If it does, then it's ok. What the remote starter is doing is giving you dome light surveillance when the vehicle is started. It's simulating the "open" door situation that occurs when the pinswitch grounds. The light doesn't know the difference, it just sees a ground. Hope this helps.
  • wdoranwdoran Member Posts: 31
    My 1990 Honda Acccord automatic with 117,000 miles has a delay of sveral seconds shifting into reverse. All Forward shifts are normal. What can be the cause of the problem, should I be concerned of it getting worse? The transmission was replaced at 34,000 miles for other problems by the dealer. Thanks for any help.
    Bill
  • mofmof Member Posts: 4
    I am exeriencing intermittent alternator whine while using the 6 CD changer. The unit is a Mobil Pro aftermarket that
    interfaces with the in-dash unit. The radio/cass is quiet. The changer (which is located in the trunk) seems to be
    the only component affected. Any ideas of a fix? The unit is grounded to the head unit through the multi-conductor
    cable. There aren't seperate audio inputs. I added a ground to the chasis in the trunk with no help. Any ideas
    of where to go next? Filter on the power line? Where/ Best place to install? Any ideas appreciated.
    Thankx
    MO
  • edison3edison3 Member Posts: 3
    I HAVE A ACCORD 96.IM HAVING PROBLEM ON MY FRONT WINDOW. EVERYTIME I ROLLUP THE WINDOW IT STOP AT CERTAIN POINT. I KEEP HITTING THE SWITCH UNTIL MY WINDOW ROLLUP ALL THE WAY. IT FEELS LIKE LACK OF POWER. BUT WHEN I OPEN THE WINDOW IT ROLLS DOWN PERFECTLY. ANY SOLUTION PLEASE EMAIL ME BURATITO69@HOTMAIL.COM
  • copytechcopytech Member Posts: 71
    The noise is either being induced by wires running next to the din cable running from the radio to the changer. You did say is was directly interfaced with the factory deck? Or is it an fm modulator? Fm modulated units can have the tendency to pick up noise because of the additional grounding points (usually the modulator itself) I'd put a filter in the power lead (switched) of the stereo. Or, if you have access, move the din cable away from some of the wires and make 90 degree turns over wires when crossing them.
  • copytechcopytech Member Posts: 71
    There are some previous posts on the window problem. You can first lube the window tracks, but it could be a window motor getting weak. I'd first pop off the door panel and watch the window. See where it stops and see if anything in the window track is binding. Then try to lube it. There is a special honda grease that works real well.
  • mofmof Member Posts: 4
    It's a direct wired unit I bought from Crutchfield. They supply a cable with a molex (?) type connector that plugs
    into the factory head unit and a "din" type plug for the Mobile Pro changer. I ran the cable from the radio down the
    right hand side of the dash and along the passenger side of the car under the carpet on the RH side and into the trunk.
    What really drives me crazy that the noise comes and goes. I can try to reroute the cable but I might just as well
    order a new one and install it, as it is a bit of a pain to get to the head unit and to run the wires keeping them
    concealed. If I put a filter in the power lead is there a preferred location? At the stereo or at the fuse block. I would prrobably have
    to get into the wiring harness of the stereo and figure out which is the switched 12v lead. Anyone know the Honda
    color code? Thank again and Happy Holidays!
    MO
  • gonggong Member Posts: 2
    Hi all,

    Thanks in advance.

    I have a 1999 Accord 4 cyl auto which I have owned for 1.5 years and 27k miles. It
    has been running pretty good. 2 week ago I had an accident and ran the car into a
    small tree at 15 mph. The front bumper, left front fender and left door are damaged. The body
    shop fixed it but since then I have been hearing annoying humming noise from
    the left side while driving at any speed. The dealer said it was front wheel bearing.
    I took it to the body shop and they replace the bearing. However, that doesn't solve
    the problem and now the body shop becomes defensive and saying it did not result
    from the accident. Does anybody have any input about the noise? If the dealer and the
    body shop all say that they can't find the problem, what can I do?

    Gong
  • bluehens89bluehens89 Member Posts: 3
    The factory-installed radio on my '93 Accord EX is not working. There is a "code" message on the display panel when the radio is "turned-on". Any suggestions for a quick, easy fix?
  • seahorse8462seahorse8462 Member Posts: 2
    I have a 92 Honda Accord LX Sedan with about 112,000 miles. Recently, it has either refused to start or completely shuts down while its being driven. So far, it has only happened twice while driving, but both times its been at 3,000 RPMs or more. One time, a garage said it was a clogged fuel injection, but that was crap. A pseudo-mechanic friend said it was a loose wire. Could that explain it shutting down in the middle of driving? Anyone else have this problem or know what's causing it?
  • auburn63auburn63 Member Posts: 1,162
    Sounds as if either your distributor or ignition switch is going bad. The distributor would be my first guess.Igniter inside the distributor would be guess number 2 then onto the ignition switch. The starting problem could be seperate from the stalls while driving and it may be a bad main fuel relay.I know this is a wide diagnosis but those are what we see most ofthen..good luck
  • racerman50racerman50 Member Posts: 1
    gong,
    If what you're describing is a sort of "whirring" noise that seems to get louder wih speed , it could very well be a front wheel bearing. Here's a simple diagnostic . On an uncrowded road with smooth pavement at 30 + mph turn the steering wheel to the right -which will "load" the LEFT bearing.If the sound increases it is probably the left bearing. Turn to left to load right bearing, If noise diminishes, it confirms left bearing . If it increases, it is right bearing. Now the body shop may or may not have replaced the bearing, may or may not have done it correctly....Another possibility would be a bent axle or defective cv joint , but then you'd feel a vibration as well.
    As for body shop getting defensive, if it is an insurance job they simply file a "supplement " for the hidden damage and get reimbursed...no loss to them. No way a < 30K Accord is going to go through a ft whl brg otherwise. Good luck!
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