If your Accord has 15,000 miles or more, they use a digital camera setup to take pictures of second gear. If the gear has experienced overheating, its color and other characteristics should indicate it, in which case they'd do a transmission replacement. If the gear appears to not have been overheated, they install the oil jet kit instead.
I think someone is just eyeballing those pads and guessing. I know we MEASURE the pads with a caliper. When they get down to less than 2MM we replace them.
Thanks for the response. So I will know they need to be changed when the indicator starts squealing, assuming Hondas have this? I know that's what my Nissan did, but this is my first Honda. Any idea what it costs to have the brakes repaired, assuming the rotors don't have to be replaced?
Yes, Honda's have an audible indicator on the front just like your Nissan, so you can wait until you start hearing noise every time you brake. You will need the front rotors turned at a minimum and you can expect to pay about $80 per axle(front/back). Sears or any major tire store can do the work and back it up with a good warranty. If you go to Honda expect to pay a lot more. You can always get quotes from both and make your choice. Honda's brakes aren't any better than any good makers, just get the work done at a proven shop.
My accord is 98 LX 4cyl with 95K. Started to notice extra noise(like the sound of a un-even wear tire, except I just spend $400+ for a set of good one) while traveling about 45MPH, then the noise coverd by wind and other noise above 60MPH. First thought it was wheel bearing, but did not notice any noise difference when left or right turn. Gas input does not affect the noise, but the speed of vehicle does. Bring to Honda dealer. It took over 8 hours before they finally said it was the wheel bearing and spindle. I then decide to change it for $550. Both front end wear out, I was told. Dealer took a whole day to do the work, told me there is no part of one of the two recall I am also doing in the same dealership, so I continue to drive the loaner. Second day, dealer call, and said the parts were changed but the noise did not go away. so there will be no charge for the wheel bearings. However, I need to change transmission. Because that is where the problem is. It will cost me about $1800 for a re-manufactured transmission. My 2001 Accord did receive a 100,000 miles transmission warranty from Honda, but not the 1998. I am not sure if they are the same transmission. (2001 is a V6 coupe) Honda hold value well, so my car is still worth 7k to 8k on paper (blue book or edmund), but what I can actually sell for, is a different story. To spend 2k to change a used transmission, is hard for me to decide. And the dealer call, want their bearing back. so I have them change my old ones back. Any comment or input on this is appreciated.
What a ridiculous statement! I have never had my brakes done at a dealer on any car that I have owned and never once have I had noticeable "brake noise on application".
Only go to the Honda dealer if you aren't very fond of your money.
Gregoryc1 although I'm sure you are a nice guy, you have demonstrated numerous times in your posts over the years that you do not have current mechanical knowledge on modern cars and particularly Hondas. I do and I actively work on cars all the time. Many aftermarket parts can be purchased for less money and with better warranties than from the dealer. Continue to use your dealer to your hearts content, but suggesting people should only use only the dealer is absurd and needlessly expensive. Many shops out there do as good and even better work for less money. You can own a car for well over 10 years and never set foot in a dealer's shop for a repair or service. In the end you will have a lot more money in your pocket. I should know, I have done it a few times.
Thank you for your opinion. You made a statement about me as follows: ---"you have demonstrated numerous times in your posts over the years that you do not have current mechanical knowledge on modern cars and particularly Hondas". ------ IMPORTANT QUESTIONS: ---How did you come to this conclusion? ----Is it because I like to have my oil & filter changed every 3,000 miles, rather than at 5,000 and / or 10,000 mile intervals? ------Is it because I like to have my vehicles serviced at the dealer, using factory parts? ---- Is it becasue I choose not to perform my own maintenance work? -----Is it because I choose to "tip" the service technician at the time of service? ----Is it because that I choose to trade my vehicles when they get close to 100,000 miles? ----Is it because I choose to put a 7 year / 100,000 mile extended warranty on my Honda vehicles? --- Is it because I believe in using a fuel additive for the maintenance of valve stems, valve guides, piston rings & lands, and fuel system components? ---- Is it because I choose to warm up my vehicle on cold winter mornings before I drive off? ---- Be specific about your conclusion! Don't hold back. You made the statement now "back it up"! ----Explain your position!
My experience with cars and life in general is that there is usually more than one way to do things and get satisfactory results. I would advise anyone to go with whatever method enables them to get the most peace of mind. What works for me may be horrible for you and vice versa.
My 2004 has a very similar problem. I can hear almost a high pitch whining sound that is very faint but gets higher the faster the vehicle goes. Engine RPM doesnt affect the sound. I took the car to the dealer and they said they couldnt hear it. Whatever it is, it's driving me crazy as I can hear that noise especially on the highway. It sounds like a squeeky fan impeller motor. I turned off the a/c and vents and turned off all other accessories, it makes no differance.
you might try to get some free brake work out of Honda, if you have the ability/desire to call them out on poor quality. needing brakes before the 36k mile warranty is up? unacceptable in my opinion! they might give you one free brake service just to attempt to make you happy. can't hurt to try. any brake work needed before the basic warranty expires really should be taken care of by Honda. they need account for their poor quality in that area. on such a heavy car, they really could stand to use some more substantial pads/rotors it seeems.
do a search on brake problems here - you will see. and yes, my rear rotors are just as poor quality as my front rotors. but i can't offer advice on aftermarket parts - never used them.
Last week I performed a brake job on my 2001 Honda Accord 4cyl EX 4 door with 68,000 miles.
At about 65,000 mile I had the Honda dealer in my home town (not the dealer that I purchased the car new from) change out my brake fluid for $75 - a 36 month service item according to the owner's manual - page 224.
At 35,000 miles I took it to the original purchase Honda dealer (not in my home town) for brake pedal pulsation when braking at highway speeds. The dealer's tech told me that it is right at the Honda spec limit for run-out. He then put the rotors through one fine finishing pass on the brake lathe (skipping the coarse cut) to remove a very small amount of metal and the problem was gone. (The Honda dealer performed this for me under warranty.)
Well now at 68,000 miles the brake pedal pulsation problem when braking at highway speeds came back. I took it to the Honda dealer in my home town (not where I purchased the car) and they told me that there is not enough metal on rotors to cut them more than once and mine would have to be replaced. I asked them to measure the rotors since they only had one fine finishing cut and they came back and told me that they measured but there is not enough metal. Their estimate for a brake job was $311 for new front rotors and pads, and $146 for rear pads. They told me that the factory original front pads are half worn but when rotors are replaced the pads should also get replaced regardless of the condition of the pads. They told me that the factory original rear pads are 80% gone with only a 20% service life left.
For reference - I almost always downshift when braking so that may explain why I still have 50% of pad life remaining on the front tires after 68,000 miles. For example, when I exit the interstate I always downshift from 5th gear directly down to 3rd skipping 4th gear. When I come to a complete stop I almost always "finish off" my braking with the parking brakes from less than 5 MPH to a complete stop. This way the very hot front brake pads do not compress the front rotors at one spot while they are not rotating. This use of the parking brakes is why my rear pads are 80% gone.
I went home and I measured the rotors with a simple straight ruler. The rotors have "21 MM minimum" stamped on them - I eyeballed them as having about 23.5 mm with my ruler. The thing that scares me the most about letting this particular Honda dealer in my home town (not where I purchased my Honda) do my brakes is that once the car is up in the air they might come in and tell me "you need new calipers" so their $457 estimated brake job is now costing me about $1,000!
With the money that I saved by doing my own brake job ($17 for rear pads vs. $146 at the Honda dealer) I was able to purchase some tools that would help me do a very professional job. I purchased a 3/8" drive ratchet head micrometer adjustable torque wrench for about $60 that has a plastic molded case to protect it at Home Depot, and other tools like an impact screw driver for $20 (my 1998-1999 Hanes Honda Accord manual shows a picture of a guy using an impact hand hammer on a disc retaining screw - page 9-8) and a very long 3/8" socket breaker bar for about $10; and from grizzly.com I bought a magnetic base, .001" dial indicator, .001" dial caliper combo with a plastic molded case for about $37 delivered.
When I twisted the caliper pistons in the rears back in and pushed the pistons in the front back in I opened the bleeder screws so as not to push the brake fluid out of the master cylinder. The brake fluid coming out of the calipers was very, very dark. Not at all like the light amber colored DOT 3 brake fluid that I purchased brand new to bleed the brakes with. (The master cylinder says on it to use only DOT 3 brake fluid.) So I wonder about the $75 brake fluid change that the Honda dealer "performed" for me 3,000 miles ago. Is is normal for new brake fluid to turn this color after only 3,000 miles? I know it is normal for new engine oil to turn much darker after a few hundred miles. Just a thought.
I torqued the rear caliper bolts to 19 ft-lbs, the front caliper sliding bolts to 54 ft-lbs and the front caliper mounting bracket bolts to 80 ft-lbs. The sliding bolts at the front are marked "G" and "L" - the "G" bolts go on the bottom-most slide. I cleaned the sliding bolts and relubed with high temperature brake lube. The anti-rattle clips clean very nicely and quickly with a dry small narrow brass brush.
I decided to buy new NAPA cheap China rotors for $41.50 and then had the original factory rotors cut for $14 each. This way on the next two brake jobs I will have good rotors to put in and will not have to depend an anybody to provide me with transportation while my car is up on jacks.
When I took the rotors to the machine shop they measured the thickness and they told me there is plenty of metal to resurface. The condition of these factory original rotors coming off the car was mirror smooth with no gauging whatsoever. I cleaned off all of the rust and dirt inside where it meets the hub with a drill and wire wheel so that when the rotors are trued on the brake lathe they will not be cut with any "built in" run-out. After resurfacing I measured them and there is now about 22.5 mm of metal left - prolly not enough to cut on the next brake job. I then coated the cut surface with singer 3 in 1 machine oil and wrapped them in plastic and put them in the new rotor's box and sealed with wide plastic tape and put them in storage flat side down with nothing else sitting on top.
I put NAPA $39 ceramic pads in the front (lifetime warranty) but the rear NAPA ceramic pads cost $53 so I went with the regular NAPA pads on the rears for $17. The brake cleaner spray cans where on sale for $1.67 so I bought two. (I only used 1/2 can though.)
So far there is no brake squeal nor any brake pulsation problems of any kind. Before I replaced these front disc rotors I was getting a little bit of vibration as I was nudging the steering wheel in either direction to make the high speed turns and lane changes on the interstate highways. (I was also getting pulsation when braking at highway speeds.) Now I have a smoother steering wheel - prolly since I no longer have warped rotors "pulsating" the brake pistons as I make these low arc turns on the interstate highways.
Now that I have a torque wrench I will be torquing my wheel lug nuts to 80 ft-lbs. after any shop works on my car. So for example, when I get my wheels spin balanced and rotated I will drive straight home and back up the lug nuts and then torque 'em to 80 ft-lbs.
Can anybody tell me if I got ripped off by the Honda dealer on the $75 change of brake fluid?
I have felt a slight vibration under my foot on the gas pedal of my 04 Honda Acord EX-V6 since I bought it new in June. This vibration only occurs once when the car is freshly started and accelerated to about 9 miles/hour. Once it is started (warmed up), such vibration will not happen again at all even if the car is stopped (but not shut off the engine) and accelerated from 0 speed. It seems to be related to an unsmooth shift of gear. Has anybody known why? Thanks in advance!
Mine has only 4k miles. The vibration is very slight and lasts only for a very short period of time (<1 second), just a blink. Then the vibration never happens when I drive it up to 80 mile/hour. The problem only happens when the car is freshly started (from off). Once it is started, no such problem at all. I am not sure if my problem is the same as your.
not sure if anyone has responded to your question since this is my first time here but it sounds like something that happened to me with my 98 accord ex V6. It turned out to be the throttle (or idle) body. the honda shop said there was to much carbon in it. This has happened to me twice. right now my tranny just blew and i am looking for an 04 accord ex v6 with nav.
Not sure if this is the same type of vibration that you're talking about. Recently, my car vibrates, I mean it really feels like it's shaking, right after I come off of the highway and I'm waiting at a stoplight. You can feel something kick on, maybe the fan or something, and the car feels like it's shaking. It would be extremely embarassing if this happened if someone was in the car with me...they'd think my car had serious problems! It doesn't happen every single time, but more and more lately. Not sure what this could be.....I've had other cars where you can hear the fan kick on, but they never shook like this. Any ideas?
You saved me some typing. Yes all of the above, you just left off running premium gas. You constantly push to do everything at Honda, yet you fail to follow the manufactures recommended schedules for anything. You have said you've worked a number of years teaching car maintenance, yet you don't do any of your own maintenance. You talk about oil sludge for anyone who doesn't change oil at close to 3000k, when even Toyota said they didn't have any issues with oil changed at the 5000 mile range. My bottom line is I want people to make informed decisions and save money in the process. Most of the time that means having non warranty work performed away from the dealer and not be scared in to purchasing an extended warranty that statistically is a waste of money. That being said, I have no problem with people who do everything at the dealer and buy extended warranties. I just want those that aren't sure what to do, to know the realities of what they are spending their money on. I make close to 6 figures, but I still like to save money.
Yes, it is always better to over maintain a car than to under maintain one, but you try to give advice when you have no actual experience maintaining the cars you drive for any significant time or miles. As you have stated, you always get rid of cars before 7 years or 100,000 miles. I and many others on this board know you can keep cars twice as long without spending significant amounts of money if you buy a quality car and follow the maker's maintenance schedual.
Lastly, rarely if ever would a car repair shop use Honda brakes. They buy parts wholesale from majors stores like NAPA. I prefer Car Quest never squeal pads. They are garranteed for life and they absolutely will not squeal, all for about 50 bucks.
I'm not trying to be personal, but your insight just doesn't always add up when it comes to maintenance on cars. So yes I will chime in when you make a statement that makes no mechanical sense.
I have the same vibration in my car. At that speed the engine RPM is so low that any slight application of additional throttle makes it worse. This is similar to driving a standard shift car and being in the top gear but going to slow to be in that gear. Due to the low RPM the engine is almost lugging to work, notice if you apply more throttle the RPMs will jump up a little when it downshifts and the vibration will go away. I know its annoying, but it feels and sounds normal to me in my car.
I enjoyed reading your reply, but it is not correct for the following reasons: ----1.) While I have all the tools and knowledge to work on vehicles I do not want to work on cars. I did enough of that, and I spend most of my time boating and fishing. I don't want to get my hands dirty any longer. Yes, it is that simple. -----2.) Yes, I over maintain my vehicles by changing my oil and filter at 3,000 miles. -----3.) I always take my vehicles in for service at the recommended intervals; (7,500, 15,000, 30,000 miles, etc),in addition to the 3,000 mile service. ----When I go to the service desk, I can speak their language, and as such, I can help them to service my vehicles. Here is some brake information for you to consider when performing your own brake jobs. Disk Brake noise can be caused by a number of different factors: 1.) The pad edges engaging the rotor can cause a "chatter / vibration and noise". 2.) There can be a "vibration" of the rotor, pads and / or the steel backing plates. 3.) The Caliper piston can vibrate against the brake pad steel backing plate. 4.) Rusted steel backing plates can cause a noise.
On the drum side of the issue, "squealing" could be caused by a number of things. 1.) Brake dust in the drums. 2.) Low quality linings 3.) Hard linings 5.) Distorted brake shoes 6.) Distorted backing plate 7.) Broken & weak brake shoe return springs 8.) Saturated linings The "bottom line" is simple. The brake system on any vehicle is a complex system. The manufacturer designed the components and the brake material as a unit. If a mechanic introduces an aftermarket brake pad or shoe, this may or may not be compatible with the system. IMPORTANT NOTE: ----When I trade my Accord in at 100,000 miles, are you interested in the vehicle? You know it is well mainatined by the dealer. As a "side bar story" I tried using regular fuel / name brand ,(87 octane), for two months, (July and August). The brand of choice were: ---Hess, BP, Getty, and Shell. During this period of time I used about 200 gallons of fuel. (I do a lot of highway driving). I did not like the performance of the engine, so I went back to the 92 / 93 octane fuel. I especially did not like the performance of the engine under "hard acceleration" coming out of a toll booth.------ ( Usually, I like to keep up with the V8 Ford Mustangs with my 4 cylinder Accord). (Just kidding)!!!! But years ago, I "blew the doors off" a V8 stick Mustang, with a 1995 V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee. There was a very surprised look on the driver's face, when the Jeep stayed with him out of the toll booth. Too bad the speed limit was 65 mph. It would have been interesting to see the two vehicles at top end.
I have worked on Hondas for over 20 years and have always said and stand by it "use any tech you want but always use Honda parts" I say this because I have seen the differance between the two over the long term and the more aftermarket parts on a Honda the less reliable it is.My 92 Accord is as good as day one and has 310,000 miles on it without a single aftermarket part. I wouldnt even think twice about taken it across country it is that sound. As for Honda brake pads, they are better than any pads on the market(fit and performance) for a Honda and at most dealers come with a lifetime replacement warranty.
I have an '03 4-door, 4 cylinder Accord LX with a manual transmission. In addition to door rattles, I also have a rattle coming from the front passenger side. Does it go away when you apply pressure to where the air bag is located? Mine did. The dealer said it was too difficult to fix, translated to "too expensive" since it likely involves removing the air bag mechanism. If this isn't the source, try listening by the door panels especially on rougher terrain. At 4K, I started hearing rattles intermittently. The rattles increase when the temperature is lower, presumably due to contraction of glass, metal, etc. At 8K, I couldn't take it anymore. The service department treated me as if the noise was in my head, but added foam tape to the inside of the door panel to appease me - twice! Fortunately, the dealership has a new service manager who took my complaint seriously and had the door panel replaced. The good news is that it worked; the bad news is that it worked temporarily. The temperatures have dropped, the car has 15K and the rattles are back. The door panel seems to be good for about 6-8K. The new service manager did indicate that adding foam tape makes it worse. I concur. It created excessive resistance when opening the windows; 'glad I didn't pay to have the windows tinted since the result of the foam tape would have been permanent scratch stripes on the windows. Have the dealer replace your door panel(s)! Note that the loaner car, also an '03 Accord, had similar issues. The service manager hinted that door rattles were a known problem. You may also want to check out the plate that attaches the seatbelt to the frame, although I think this is a design flaw. Worst-case scenario: turn up the stereo or rest your elbow on the door panel (that will make it stop). I still have rattles on the front passenger's side; rattle are intermittent on rear driver's side. No rattles ever on the rear passenger's side... maybe because it's farthest away and the other rattles are louder.
Although I love the way my Accord handles, I am so disappointed. I wanted a manual transmission, had to wait a month for it, and have experienced several problems:
1. Door and other assorted rattles, already described 2. Leak discovered during routine oil change that resulted in replacement of rack and pinion - glad that dealer discovered the problem - according to service manager, this occurs rarely. No related problems since. 3. Engine light came on twice for unknown reasons at less than 2K - first time, it worked the next time I started the car - second time, the dealership explained that something needed to be reprogrammed - haven't had a problem since. 4. Brakes - don't know what's wrong, except that the car shimmies when braking at higher speeds, for example, when exiting the freeway. I generally downshift, so use brakes minimally - I'm wondering if this is a rear drum issue as described in other postings. 5. Driver's seat - it's loose. The seat shifts when I accelerate from a stop or brake. 6. Clutch pedal - clicks intermittently. 7. First gear hesitation - I really have to give it some gas in first gear when accelerating from a complete stop or else the car hesitates; after that, it's fine (note this is not due to my lack of driving skills). 8. This is picky, but how difficult can it be to design a glove box with a door that closes and seals so the glove box light doesn't glow through the crack at night? The dealership repositioned the foam tape, but did a lousy job, so it's worse than ever. I can take care of this one, but still... and what about that trunk? Unless the car is completely level, if you open the trunk when the car is wet, water drips into it... who designed this stuff?
My car is headed for the shop Wednesday for a routine oil change, seat repair, door rattle and brake review. I'll keep you posted.
I like you Gregory, I just don't understand you sometimes. Yes much of what you said is true, but basic brakes are pretty simple. Believe it or not when I buy cars, I don't buy them with anti lock brakes, because I like to work on them myself and anti locks can be a pain in the butt. Also, there are $1000 parts in the system. I know in some cases they give you more control, but I except the trade off. The most common cause of brake squeal is the backing plate rubbing against the disk puck and the over hardness of the pad material. That is why I use Car Quest pads they have a special plate and organic material. They never squeal for the most typical causes.
The reason your car didn't drive as well is it was used to premium. Once you break a car in with it, it just will not run right most of the time when you go back to regular. I garrantee if you had never started using it, you would never know the difference in a car that doesn't require it.
If you didn't run premium in your cars, I would buy them in a heartbeat. Next to mine, I would say they are the best maintained cars out there. I'll be off the board for the next couple of days. We have been ordered (Active Air Force)to evacuate here in Ft. Walton Beach Florida, so I'm on the way to Tennessee in the morning.
Doesn't the computer slowly adjust to regular gas as it's used? Can you clear the computer (remove the fuse for a few minutes)?
Maybe the residue left by the higher octane fuels has increased the compression ratios so that it will take a while for the combustion chamber to clear of the buildup before it will run as designed.
Take it out on a good highway run for a few hundred miles and drive it like a hot rod with regular in it.
I had my oil jet kit installed Friday after a check of the 2nd gear by the dealer I bought from. They made it as convenient as any work I've ever had done at a shop. They had 4 customers at once for the tranny recall (3 Accords 1 Pilot, I think.) They gave us all rentals, paid for by Honda. The whole deal was absolutely no problem. Another dealer closer to me would have done the work, but I would not have gotten a loaner or rental, because I did'nt buy from them.
As a prior Army Supply Sgt., I can appreciate your life in the military. You guys & girls do a GREAT job. Thank you for your service. If I was a younger person, I would be in the military at this point in time. We need to "kick some butt" and take some names! --------- With regards to the Premium vs Regular fuel, I believe that the difference comes down to the way the on board computer "bumps up" the timing.---- On SOME vehicles, the computer will advance the timing till the engine starts to "knock", then at that point in time, the timing is backed off a few degrees to eliminate the "knock". ----- With premium fuel in the tank, the computer is advancing the timing further than with regular. The more you advance the timing, (without a spark "knock"),the more power you get from the engine, especially under hard acceleration.----- Under "HARD ACCELERATION" the on - board computer is in "Open Loop", (it is not looking at the "Oxygen Sensor"), because you are demanding high output from the engine, (WOT), (which translates into maximum fuel and maximum spark advance), from the engine. This is why, premium fuel gives the engine a slight edge!----Just my opinion. -----Greg
it amazes me that people are saying that Honda brake parts are SUPERIOR to aftermarket parts.
as we all know, for Gen 7, Honda can't even claim to get average performance and longevity out of their pads and rotors. they even "redesigned" their own pads 3 months after the Accord was released for Gen 7. Honda brakes are made at the lowest cost possible without offending the U.S. Government.
why do you think they tout the Brembo brake package on the TL? if their brakes were good enough, they wouldn't need non-OEM suppliers handling the braking for their vehicles. if their repuation was so great, people would say "uh, i won't buy the car with those awful aftermarket Brembo's on it". don't think that is said by any Acura buyers
lets get a grip on reality. Honda might make some decent engines (if they don't leak oil and catch fire), and they handle pretty well, and (with Gen 7 anyway) they look darn good, and they have a kick-you-know-what climate control system, and eventually they will work out the kinks in the 5 speed auto (about the time even Kia starts using 6 speed auto's, but hey), BUT THEY APPEAR TO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BRAKES. sad but true.
I don't read every post, but did I miss someone stating that Honda brakes are superior to aftermarket? Can you tell me who or when? Just curious to see if you're serious or just wanting to discuss. I would never say that Honda brake parts are superior and would like proof of such a conclusion.
As for Honda brake pads, they are better than any pads on the market(fit and performance) for a Honda and at most dealers come with a lifetime replacement warranty.
(I have no opinion on this, I'm just responding to whitecloud's query about who stated this.)
Thanks. Sounds like an opinion. About the same as "Honda makes the best audio systems for Hondas", though you can almost always find one you might like better.
i was simply replying that Honda brake systems are not as great as some suggest. i am not happy about that, as i drive a Honda, but its a fact. interestingly enough, if you read car mags, you will find that most Honda models have mediocre brakes lately, with regard to performance and durability. the Accord is noted for its long stopping distances and poor quality rotors/pads, even on the long term test of the Accord here on Edmunds. the current model Civics, Pilot, and TL also don't seem to be up to the industry standards for their respective classes, per car mags.
if i could get over my mental block about spending money on a "warranty" item, i would seriously try some aftermarket parts. just not sure i could sleep at night though.
my opinion - no one has to agree. you can love Honda brakes as much as i loathe them
Where they find the brakes that bad. I mean I thought I drove fast and I can't find fault with our brakes on our Civic, Accord, or Ody. What kind of driving do you guys do?
Ok, sooooo what rotors and brake pads (brand) do you all recommend? I would not mind spending a few extra dollars on good rotors/pads. btw, I had mine replaced a week after I purchased my v6 coupe. I hope this is not an indication of what's to come.
Just asking a question. In what way were the brakes THAT bad? If you just didn't like em, that's one thing. And if they had problems, fix em. We've gotten rid of a 2001 EX-V6 and our 04 EX-L auto simply because we didn't like aspects of them, but we didn't claim they were crap to justify it.
You were just asking a question? A question that you've asked several times already. To pretend that you were not implying driver blame is disingenuous.
I didn't just "not like" the brakes. First, after two weeks of ownership, they made a terrible grinding noise and skipped. Meaning that, if I were coming down an incline (like in a parking garage), they would initially stop the car, but then the grip would loosen and the car would skip forward, all while I maintained consistent pressure on the brake pedal. Very scary.
At 3k, the rotors warped and they machined them. At 7k, the rotors rewarped and they replaced all four, plus all four pads. At 12k, the brakes started shimmying again when pressed at higher speeds.
Whatever the problem was, the dealer and Honda Corp couldn't fix it. They did try, but nothing worked.
Honda Corp was much more understanding about the problems than some on this board. The reps never suggested that the problems were caused by my driving. And they acknowledged that the problem was not isolated to just a few Accords.
seriously, not sure if you are the way you are on purpose or not, but you are 100% WRONG to blame someone's driving on bad brakes. in order, poor quality brakes are made by Honda, put on the car, then the driver gets the car. the driver has no way to sabotage the brakes at the factory! you must know that! there is no way the driver can be at fault.
the "problem: is that they vibrate when you press the brake pedal. Honda calls is "judder" for some reason. i personally think it is a mix of poor materials, and not enough braking surface for such high weight cars. again, why do professional car guys keep mention poor brakes/stopping distances for Honda models? why would Honda/Acura feel the need to address that with aftermarket components like Brembo? they know their weaknesses, they just don't want to admit them in public.
i was reading my local (but nationwide paper) today that was discussing that very fact with regard to Honda. not related to Accord, but shows Honda's attitude about problems: blame the dealer or driver, not the manufacturer. the NHTSA has REOPENED a certain investigation relating to engine fires on Honda's. heres a blurb:
[The problem, which has lit up online Honda chat groups, aims at the heart of Honda's reputation as one of the safest and most consumer-friendly of car companies, said Bob Kurilko, an auto marketing expert at Edmunds.com. "The publicity of a [possible] forced recall is not good, especially for Honda, because they have a pristine reputation and want to manage that and protect it," he said. "Honda acting quickly could jump in front of this thing and just initiate a voluntary recall, and I think they're going to want to do that before NHTSA forces them."
But Boyd, the Honda spokesman, said the company believes a recall would be counterproductive based on current understanding of the problem.
Recalling the vehicles to replace oil filters "wouldn't accomplish anything," he said. "You'd still have a certain percentage having an oil leak or fire. It's not that different than the issue running its course."]
i just wish Honda would pull a Bill Clinton and FINALLY admit everything Everybody loves em, they just made some mistakes. i don't think people make excuses to get rid of a car. they make justifications to buy cars, haha, but not to dump a bad one. it is hard though due to depreciation and questionable resale values.
But when you have 400,000 of a certain product out there providing satisfactory service it's hard to make the point that there is an inherent problem.
I feel real sorry for those of you that can't stand your cars for whatever reason. And I feel sorry that you can't come up with the $$$ to get rid of them. But I do live in the real world where crap happens. They don't make perfect anything. Go to any forum on Edmunds and you will find a certain couple of people claiming that the entire run of a certain vehicle is bad because thiers sucks. Without fail.
I guess we might as well walk. But then with that kind of luck, you might get a bad pair of shoes.
As far as the CR-V situation, why would Honda(the manufacturer) do anything when they aren't causing the fires. If it is found that all CR-V's are catching on fire due to incorrect oil filter installation then that is not Honda's fault. If it is found that there are those that are spontaneously combusting on their own, then Honda should be taken to task. It's just like driving. If you can't drive and you hit a tree, don't blame Honda's brakes for not stopping you in time. I really don't think Honda would not fix the cars if they knew a solution. The liabilty potential of this is immense. If someones little bundle of joy burns up in a CR-V and it is found Honda was covering up a cure, they would have a new owner when the courts finished with them. They've done much larger recalls for much smaller problems.
you say you don't have a problem, but you clearly DO. otherwise you wouldn't resort to personal attacks EVERY TIME (implying someone must be poor or doesn't know how to drive). you get upset when someone has the nerve to post about a problem in the Accord Problems and Solution board. you start throwing numbers out and talk about your "real world" experiences. what, are people with bad experiences supposed to say? "well, my car just caught fire, and my brakes vibrate, my transmission might lock up, rattles are driving me crazy, my seat is moving in its tracks, my airbag cover is sagging, and my leather is discolored, BUT it is okay, because 399,999 other people out there are just happy as clams with their cars according to this guy on the internet."
or something like that.
if thats what you expect, then your "real world" is a place i gotta try out for an hour or so!
without problems is not a fact, it's a figment of gee's wishing. Just because all 399,999 aren't on here stating they have a problem doesn't mean the same percentage of that ownership has no problems.
It's always this way, Justin, with the personal attack. He doth protest too greatly.
Comments
Bring to Honda dealer. It took over 8 hours before they finally said it was the wheel bearing and spindle. I then decide to change it for $550. Both front end wear out, I was told.
Dealer took a whole day to do the work, told me there is no part of one of the two recall I am also doing in the same dealership, so I continue to drive the loaner.
Second day, dealer call, and said the parts were changed but the noise did not go away. so there will be no charge for the wheel bearings. However, I need to change transmission. Because that is where the problem is. It will cost me about $1800 for a re-manufactured transmission.
My 2001 Accord did receive a 100,000 miles transmission warranty from Honda, but not the 1998. I am not sure if they are the same transmission. (2001 is a V6 coupe)
Honda hold value well, so my car is still worth 7k to 8k on paper (blue book or edmund), but what I can actually sell for, is a different story. To spend 2k to change a used transmission, is hard for me to decide. And the dealer call, want their bearing back. so I have them change my old ones back.
Any comment or input on this is appreciated.
Only go to the Honda dealer if you aren't very fond of your money.
do a search on brake problems here - you will see. and yes, my rear rotors are just as poor quality as my front rotors. but i can't offer advice on aftermarket parts - never used them.
good luck!
At about 65,000 mile I had the Honda dealer in my home town (not the dealer that I purchased the car new from) change out my brake fluid for $75 - a 36 month service item according to the owner's manual - page 224.
At 35,000 miles I took it to the original purchase Honda dealer (not in my home town) for brake pedal pulsation when braking at highway speeds. The dealer's tech told me that it is right at the Honda spec limit for run-out. He then put the rotors through one fine finishing pass on the brake lathe (skipping the coarse cut) to remove a very small amount of metal and the problem was gone. (The Honda dealer performed this for me under warranty.)
Well now at 68,000 miles the brake pedal pulsation problem when braking at highway speeds came back. I took it to the Honda dealer in my home town (not where I purchased the car) and they told me that there is not enough metal on rotors to cut them more than once and mine would have to be replaced. I asked them to measure the rotors since they only had one fine finishing cut and they came back and told me that they measured but there is not enough metal. Their estimate for a brake job was $311 for new front rotors and pads, and $146 for rear pads. They told me that the factory original front pads are half worn but when rotors are replaced the pads should also get replaced regardless of the condition of the pads. They told me that the factory original rear pads are 80% gone with only a 20% service life left.
For reference - I almost always downshift when braking so that may explain why I still have 50% of pad life remaining on the front tires after 68,000 miles. For example, when I exit the interstate I always downshift from 5th gear directly down to 3rd skipping 4th gear. When I come to a complete stop I almost always "finish off" my braking with the parking brakes from less than 5 MPH to a complete stop. This way the very hot front brake pads do not compress the front rotors at one spot while they are not rotating. This use of the parking brakes is why my rear pads are 80% gone.
I went home and I measured the rotors with a simple straight ruler. The rotors have "21 MM minimum" stamped on them - I eyeballed them as having about 23.5 mm with my ruler. The thing that scares me the most about letting this particular Honda dealer in my home town (not where I purchased my Honda) do my brakes is that once the car is up in the air they might come in and tell me "you need new calipers" so their $457 estimated brake job is now costing me about $1,000!
With the money that I saved by doing my own brake job ($17 for rear pads vs. $146 at the Honda dealer) I was able to purchase some tools that would help me do a very professional job. I purchased a 3/8" drive ratchet head micrometer adjustable torque wrench for about $60 that has a plastic molded case to protect it at Home Depot, and other tools like an impact screw driver for $20 (my 1998-1999 Hanes Honda Accord manual shows a picture of a guy using an impact hand hammer on a disc retaining screw - page 9-8) and a very long 3/8" socket breaker bar for about $10; and from grizzly.com I bought a magnetic base, .001" dial indicator, .001" dial caliper combo with a plastic molded case for about $37 delivered.
When I twisted the caliper pistons in the rears back in and pushed the pistons in the front back in I opened the bleeder screws so as not to push the brake fluid out of the master cylinder. The brake fluid coming out of the calipers was very, very dark. Not at all like the light amber colored DOT 3 brake fluid that I purchased brand new to bleed the brakes with. (The master cylinder says on it to use only DOT 3 brake fluid.) So I wonder about the $75 brake fluid change that the Honda dealer "performed" for me 3,000 miles ago. Is is normal for new brake fluid to turn this color after only 3,000 miles? I know it is normal for new engine oil to turn much darker after a few hundred miles. Just a thought.
I torqued the rear caliper bolts to 19 ft-lbs, the front caliper sliding bolts to 54 ft-lbs and the front caliper mounting bracket bolts to 80 ft-lbs. The sliding bolts at the front are marked "G" and "L" - the "G" bolts go on the bottom-most slide. I cleaned the sliding bolts and relubed with high temperature brake lube. The anti-rattle clips clean very nicely and quickly with a dry small narrow brass brush.
I decided to buy new NAPA cheap China rotors for $41.50 and then had the original factory rotors cut for $14 each. This way on the next two brake jobs I will have good rotors to put in and will not have to depend an anybody to provide me with transportation while my car is up on jacks.
When I took the rotors to the machine shop they measured the thickness and they told me there is plenty of metal to resurface. The condition of these factory original rotors coming off the car was mirror smooth with no gauging whatsoever. I cleaned off all of the rust and dirt inside where it meets the hub with a drill and wire wheel so that when the rotors are trued on the brake lathe they will not be cut with any "built in" run-out. After resurfacing I measured them and there is now about 22.5 mm of metal left - prolly not enough to cut on the next brake job. I then coated the cut surface with singer 3 in 1 machine oil and wrapped them in plastic and put them in the new rotor's box and sealed with wide plastic tape and put them in storage flat side down with nothing else sitting on top.
I put NAPA $39 ceramic pads in the front (lifetime warranty) but the rear NAPA ceramic pads cost $53 so I went with the regular NAPA pads on the rears for $17. The brake cleaner spray cans where on sale for $1.67 so I bought two. (I only used 1/2 can though.)
So far there is no brake squeal nor any brake pulsation problems of any kind. Before I replaced these front disc rotors I was getting a little bit of vibration as I was nudging the steering wheel in either direction to make the high speed turns and lane changes on the interstate highways. (I was also getting pulsation when braking at highway speeds.) Now I have a smoother steering wheel - prolly since I no longer have warped rotors "pulsating" the brake pistons as I make these low arc turns on the interstate highways.
Now that I have a torque wrench I will be torquing my wheel lug nuts to 80 ft-lbs. after any shop works on my car. So for example, when I get my wheels spin balanced and rotated I will drive straight home and back up the lug nuts and then torque 'em to 80 ft-lbs.
Can anybody tell me if I got ripped off by the Honda dealer on the $75 change of brake fluid?
Thank you.
Yes, it is always better to over maintain a car than to under maintain one, but you try to give advice when you have no actual experience maintaining the cars you drive for any significant time or miles. As you have stated, you always get rid of cars before 7 years or 100,000 miles. I and many others on this board know you can keep cars twice as long without spending significant amounts of money if you buy a quality car and follow the maker's maintenance schedual.
Lastly, rarely if ever would a car repair shop use Honda brakes. They buy parts wholesale from majors stores like NAPA. I prefer Car Quest never squeal pads. They are garranteed for life and they absolutely will not squeal, all for about 50 bucks.
I'm not trying to be personal, but your insight just doesn't always add up when it comes to maintenance on cars. So yes I will chime in when you make a statement that makes no mechanical sense.
Here is some brake information for you to consider when performing your own brake jobs.
Disk Brake noise can be caused by a number of different factors:
1.) The pad edges engaging the rotor can cause a "chatter / vibration and noise".
2.) There can be a "vibration" of the rotor, pads and / or the steel backing plates.
3.) The Caliper piston can vibrate against the brake pad steel backing plate.
4.) Rusted steel backing plates can cause a noise.
On the drum side of the issue, "squealing" could be caused by a number of things.
1.) Brake dust in the drums.
2.) Low quality linings
3.) Hard linings
5.) Distorted brake shoes
6.) Distorted backing plate
7.) Broken & weak brake shoe return springs
8.) Saturated linings
The "bottom line" is simple. The brake system on any vehicle is a complex system. The manufacturer designed the components and the brake material as a unit. If a mechanic introduces an aftermarket brake pad or shoe, this may or may not be compatible with the system.
IMPORTANT NOTE: ----When I trade my Accord in at 100,000 miles, are you interested in the vehicle? You know it is well mainatined by the dealer.
As a "side bar story" I tried using regular fuel / name brand ,(87 octane), for two months, (July and August). The brand of choice were: ---Hess, BP, Getty, and Shell. During this period of time I used about 200 gallons of fuel. (I do a lot of highway driving). I did not like the performance of the engine, so I went back to the 92 / 93 octane fuel. I especially did not like the performance of the engine under "hard acceleration" coming out of a toll booth.------ ( Usually, I like to keep up with the V8 Ford Mustangs with my 4 cylinder Accord). (Just kidding)!!!! But years ago, I "blew the doors off" a V8 stick Mustang, with a 1995 V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee. There was a very surprised look on the driver's face, when the Jeep stayed with him out of the toll booth. Too bad the speed limit was 65 mph. It would have been interesting to see the two vehicles at top end.
As for Honda brake pads, they are better than any pads on the market(fit and performance) for a Honda and at most dealers come with a lifetime replacement warranty.
Although I love the way my Accord handles, I am so disappointed. I wanted a manual transmission, had to wait a month for it, and have experienced several problems:
1. Door and other assorted rattles, already described
2. Leak discovered during routine oil change that resulted in replacement of rack and pinion - glad that dealer discovered the problem - according to service manager, this occurs rarely. No related problems since.
3. Engine light came on twice for unknown reasons at less than 2K - first time, it worked the next time I started the car - second time, the dealership explained that something needed to be reprogrammed - haven't had a problem since.
4. Brakes - don't know what's wrong, except that the car shimmies when braking at higher speeds, for example, when exiting the freeway. I generally downshift, so use brakes minimally - I'm wondering if this is a rear drum issue as described in other postings.
5. Driver's seat - it's loose. The seat shifts when I accelerate from a stop or brake.
6. Clutch pedal - clicks intermittently.
7. First gear hesitation - I really have to give it some gas in first gear when accelerating from a complete stop or else the car hesitates; after that, it's fine (note this is not due to my lack of driving skills).
8. This is picky, but how difficult can it be to design a glove box with a door that closes and seals so the glove box light doesn't glow through the crack at night? The dealership repositioned the foam tape, but did a lousy job, so it's worse than ever. I can take care of this one, but still... and what about that trunk? Unless the car is completely level, if you open the trunk when the car is wet, water drips into it... who designed this stuff?
My car is headed for the shop Wednesday for a routine oil change, seat repair, door rattle and brake review. I'll keep you posted.
The reason your car didn't drive as well is it was used to premium. Once you break a car in with it, it just will not run right most of the time when you go back to regular. I garrantee if you had never started using it, you would never know the difference in a car that doesn't require it.
If you didn't run premium in your cars, I would buy them in a heartbeat. Next to mine, I would say they are the best maintained cars out there. I'll be off the board for the next couple of days. We have been ordered (Active Air Force)to evacuate here in Ft. Walton Beach Florida, so I'm on the way to Tennessee in the morning.
Maybe the residue left by the higher octane fuels has increased the compression ratios so that it will take a while for the combustion chamber to clear of the buildup before it will run as designed.
Take it out on a good highway run for a few hundred miles and drive it like a hot rod with regular in it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
They made it as convenient as any work I've ever had done at a shop. They had 4 customers at once for the tranny recall (3 Accords 1 Pilot, I think.)
They gave us all rentals, paid for by Honda. The whole deal was absolutely no problem. Another dealer closer to me would have done the work, but I would not have gotten a loaner or rental, because I did'nt buy from them.
as we all know, for Gen 7, Honda can't even claim to get average performance and longevity out of their pads and rotors. they even "redesigned" their own pads 3 months after the Accord was released for Gen 7. Honda brakes are made at the lowest cost possible without offending the U.S. Government.
why do you think they tout the Brembo brake package on the TL? if their brakes were good enough, they wouldn't need non-OEM suppliers handling the braking for their vehicles. if their repuation was so great, people would say "uh, i won't buy the car with those awful aftermarket Brembo's on it". don't think that is said by any Acura buyers
lets get a grip on reality. Honda might make some decent engines (if they don't leak oil and catch fire), and they handle pretty well, and (with Gen 7 anyway) they look darn good, and they have a kick-you-know-what climate control system, and eventually they will work out the kinks in the 5 speed auto (about the time even Kia starts using 6 speed auto's, but hey), BUT THEY APPEAR TO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BRAKES. sad but true.
As for Honda brake pads, they are better than any pads on the market(fit and performance) for a Honda and at most dealers come with a lifetime replacement warranty.
(I have no opinion on this, I'm just responding to whitecloud's query about who stated this.)
if i could get over my mental block about spending money on a "warranty" item, i would seriously try some aftermarket parts. just not sure i could sleep at night though.
my opinion - no one has to agree. you can love Honda brakes as much as i loathe them
I got rid of my 03 Accord due to the continually crappy brakes. I would therefore never say that Honda brakes are better than aftermarket.
Enjoy your defect-free cars and quit with the blame game.
I guess, nobody has found a fix for this yet?
I didn't just "not like" the brakes. First, after two weeks of ownership, they made a terrible grinding noise and skipped. Meaning that, if I were coming down an incline (like in a parking garage), they would initially stop the car, but then the grip would loosen and the car would skip forward, all while I maintained consistent pressure on the brake pedal. Very scary.
At 3k, the rotors warped and they machined them. At 7k, the rotors rewarped and they replaced all four, plus all four pads. At 12k, the brakes started shimmying again when pressed at higher speeds.
Whatever the problem was, the dealer and Honda Corp couldn't fix it. They did try, but nothing worked.
Honda Corp was much more understanding about the problems than some on this board. The reps never suggested that the problems were caused by my driving. And they acknowledged that the problem was not isolated to just a few Accords.
the "problem: is that they vibrate when you press the brake pedal. Honda calls is "judder" for some reason. i personally think it is a mix of poor materials, and not enough braking surface for such high weight cars. again, why do professional car guys keep mention poor brakes/stopping distances for Honda models? why would Honda/Acura feel the need to address that with aftermarket components like Brembo? they know their weaknesses, they just don't want to admit them in public.
i was reading my local (but nationwide paper) today that was discussing that very fact with regard to Honda. not related to Accord, but shows Honda's attitude about problems: blame the dealer or driver, not the manufacturer. the NHTSA has REOPENED a certain investigation relating to engine fires on Honda's. heres a blurb:
[The problem, which has lit up online Honda chat groups, aims at the heart of Honda's reputation as one of the safest and most consumer-friendly of car companies, said Bob Kurilko, an auto marketing expert at Edmunds.com. "The publicity of a [possible] forced recall is not good, especially for Honda, because they have a pristine reputation and want to manage that and protect it," he said. "Honda acting quickly could jump in front of this thing and just initiate a voluntary recall, and I think they're going to want to do that before NHTSA forces them."
But Boyd, the Honda spokesman, said the company believes a recall would be counterproductive based on current understanding of the problem.
Recalling the vehicles to replace oil filters "wouldn't accomplish anything," he said. "You'd still have a certain percentage having an oil leak or fire. It's not that different than the issue running its course."]
i just wish Honda would pull a Bill Clinton and FINALLY admit everything
I feel real sorry for those of you that can't stand your cars for whatever reason. And I feel sorry that you can't come up with the $$$ to get rid of them. But I do live in the real world where crap happens. They don't make perfect anything. Go to any forum on Edmunds and you will find a certain couple of people claiming that the entire run of a certain vehicle is bad because thiers sucks. Without fail.
I guess we might as well walk. But then with that kind of luck, you might get a bad pair of shoes.
As far as the CR-V situation, why would Honda(the manufacturer) do anything when they aren't causing the fires. If it is found that all CR-V's are catching on fire due to incorrect oil filter installation then that is not Honda's fault. If it is found that there are those that are spontaneously combusting on their own, then Honda should be taken to task. It's just like driving. If you can't drive and you hit a tree, don't blame Honda's brakes for not stopping you in time. I really don't think Honda would not fix the cars if they knew a solution. The liabilty potential of this is immense. If someones little bundle of joy burns up in a CR-V and it is found Honda was covering up a cure, they would have a new owner when the courts finished with them. They've done much larger recalls for much smaller problems.
or something like that.
if thats what you expect, then your "real world" is a place i gotta try out for an hour or so!
It's always this way, Justin, with the personal attack. He doth protest too greatly.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,