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Car2ns
thanks bundles
kelliekittie
7/7/98 I purchased a Beetle TDI from Shrewsbury Motors in New Jersey. Nut only was this the finest experience I ever had, it was reason for us to buy a Passat GLX from the same sales consultant. About the car: the TDI peforms flawless. According to european VW sites, this motor can run all day at 100 mph, and it really doe shine at these speeds, even with a/c. Long hauls with cruise on returns close to 60 mpg, normally I get about 50. I had one problem in 54,000 miles with the a/c which was repaired, out of warranty, gratis (well before our second puchase). The car is stil tight; it feels like it will last forever. Also, there are two 2.0L Beetles across the street which have no power and terrible gas mileage. The should have bought TDI's!!!
I'm trying to decide between purchasing the limited edition Reflex NB or a 2000 GLS TDI NB. I've read throught the posts and didn't see anything in regards to the Reflex's or Vapor's performance, track record, etc. Anyone have any feedback for these models? Thanks ahead of time for your responses!
But what's the big deal, our 2.0L has 115. If you aren't looking for performance, then I guess it's alright.
Your choice is a fine vehicle, all the Beetles are, and you do have the best performance and decent mileage as well.
But no manufacturer offers the package of the TDI: mileage and more than adequate performance for safety and normal driving! VW does offer the best "packages" as far as the most perks for the money on their models! But their quality is questionable. Their are many other manufacturers that make similar engines and certainly "better" quality products though. Take models of Nissan, Honda, Toyota, to name just three. But in spite of all the considerations I still think the TDI is the best combination! I can certainly see why others would choose the gas Beetles as well. However, at the same time I can see why people buy much better built and dependable cars like the Miata, BMW, Honda Civics and Accords, Toyota Camarys and Tercels, Nissan, and Subarus, and steer clear of all VW products, I am willing to take a chance on VW though, as you were!
Dan 00nbglx
Congratulations on choosing a New Beetle TDI. It
sounds like you want an economical, fun to drive
car that you plan to put a lot of miles on annually and keep for a while. In regards to some of the above posts, all brands of auto's are going to have some problems. Yes, some more than others. However, I wouldn't rely on 10 or 15 forum posts per month about a certain model to be a deciding factor in swaying me that a certain brand of car is problematic as some people seem to do with the New Beetle. VW sells about 8,000 of these a month, so with that kind of logic, I guess the other 7,985 Beetles that were built that month are problem free (a bit of sarcasm!). I'll admit, they did have their share of problems with the '98/'99 models, but that's pretty normal with a new vehicle model. Go check out any vehicle manufacturer on this board and you'll find people both praising, and cursing every manufacturer listed.
As far as economy and long term savings are concerned with the 3 different engine types, here's my take:
Let's just assume gas (regular) and diesel both
average $1.50 per gallon for the next 3 years,
yeah.....I know, one will probably be more than the other, or vise-versa, diesel's cheaper right now, blah, blah, blah...but just for comparison, we'll assume they average $1.50/gal. Let's also assume both the 2.0 gasser and TDI both return their posted EPA average city/highway fuel economy (27.5 for the 2.0 5speed, 45.5 for the TDI 5speed).
At that rate, it would take about 48k miles to begin to realize a cost savings with the TDI, this is why:
The difference in purchase cost between the 2.0(GLS) gasser and the TDI(GLS) is about $1050 (more for the TDI). The cost difference in the price spent on fuel would be about $1030 (in favor of the TDI with it's better fuel economy) over 48k miles. The fuel savings don't really start to come into play with the TDI until after 48k miles are on the clock, due to it's $1050 higher sticker price.
The 3rd engine choice, the 1.8T is about $1100 more than the TDI (in the same trim level), and get's about the same fuel mileage as the 2.0 gasser, but you have to put premium fuel in it.
The 2.0 gasser and the TDI aren't even in the same league as the 1.8T however, when it comes to straight line acceleration. A 7.1 zero to 60mph time beats a 10.6 zero to 60mph time any day. You do pay a premium for that kind of performance though, in sticker price, fuel, insurance, etc.
My opinion is this:
-Get the 2.0 gasser over the TDI if you plan to put less than 48k miles on it during your ownership, and you can live with the fact that it's slower in acceleration than the 1.8T (but keep in mind.....performance=cost)
The zero to 60mph performance of the 2.0 gasser is pretty close to the TDI model, however a TDI doesn't lose very much of it's torque or horsepower at higher elevations, it compensates for the pressure change with more turbo boost (something to consider if you do a lot of mountain driving).
-Get the TDI if you plan to keep the car for more than 48k miles. Again, I'd highly consider it if you have to do a lot of mountain driving.
-Get the 1.8T if there is just no substitute for
perfomance! With it being turbo-charged, it'll
also do well in the mountains.
The 2.0 gasser has a 21% more horsepower, but the TDI has 21% more torque. The TDI also reaches peak torque at a lower rpm, at the engine speeds where most of your city driving is done. Keep in mind though, the VW engineers did a good job at choosing the final drive gear ratio's for these two different engines in order to extract the most out of them...a 3.39:1 ratio for the 5speed TDI, and a 4.24:1 ratio for the 2.0 5speed. Transmission gears are very close, the difference not worth mentioning. It's the final drive ratio that's a huge difference. This means that the 2.0 gasser will turn about 22% higher rpm in any given gear, at any given speed than the TDI. This gearing trick makes better use of the TDI's torque and the 2.0 gassers horsepower. It's no wonder they feel about the same when driving them. The TDI might sound a little quieter, but that's probably due to the engine not spinning as fast in order to produce the same amount of thrust as the 2.0 gasser.
Most knowledgeable TDI drivers recommend "short shifting" the TDI while accelerating in order to keep the engine closer to it's peak torque range. This saves fuel while still giving decent acceleration. Red-lining every shift on a TDI does nothing but waste fuel.
Volkswagen has done us a great favor by making
such a fun, affordable vehicle available to suit
the needs of 3 very different groups of owners. I
hope this post helps some of you that are still
undecided about which engine option to buy.
-Steve
--2000 New Beetle, TDI, Yellow, Black leather,
Luxury package
We are pretty sold on the TDI, leather, Bright Blue, GLS, etc. Yes, we will be doing a lot of long trips in it. Neither one of us work, so it will not be a commuting car. The initial cost is not a consideration for me, (will pay cash), I am concerned about the cost of operation only. As a person could pay 30K for a car and still pay the same operating cost. We plan on doing some touring of the U.S., that means maybe 10 to 15 thousand miles a year in road trips (both coasts of Florida for one, including the Keys!). Thus the fuel is a big factor to us, I want a vehicle that is dependable, comfortable for two people, cute, with adequate power and cruising capabilities, and is economical to operate! I think the TDI fits the bill, every time I "stray", and start looking at another manufacturer, I always come crawling back to the TDI with my tail between my legs! The only other car we love is the BMW 3 series Powerwagon, great car, but 19 to 27 in mileage. Sorry BMW, no good enough for this guy, hope they will develope a diesel engine soon! I also would consider the Passat, if they would put the TDI in it! But as I said at this time, the TDI is the ONLY car that fits our needs. By the way we need a little cargo capacity too. The TDI can carry about 900 pounds or so cargo and passengers, (with two people weighing about 300 pounds), that leaves 600 or so for cargo etc. Now take the Honda Insight another terrific design, and you can have only 365 pounds of cargo and passengers, you practically have to drive in the nude to keep your weight down. That factor completely rules that one out in a hurry!
Steve since you have a TDI, let me ask you one of my concerns, we live in Arizona, temperature often at times, 115 on the valley freeways. I figure the TDI would drive the A/C compressor better, with the added torque of this engine. Any thoughts on that?? And would you feel the TDI A/C is adequate and comfortable?? This is very important to me, although we will be on the open road with it most the time, we still want a car that will stay cool in traffic and will not be a sweat house!
Dan 00nbglx
In regards to post #379, I don't think the TDI will perform any better or worse than the 2.0 engine would with the A/C on. At least not enough to be able to tell a difference. The TDI does have a torque advantage, so it's geared a little higher, the 2.0 has a H.P. advantage, so it's geared a little lower. This allows each engine to operate closer to it's peak in the power band.
I've discovered (and it comes as no surprise) that the more power an engine has, the less you'll notice the drag from the A/C compressor. However, although the TDI and 2.0 are relatively low powered the A/C compressor doesn't seem to drag down the engine as bad as some other cars I've driven. It probably has an efficient, well engineered compressor. I've never heard a complaint from anyone with a New Beetle about a lack of A/C capacity, even when driven in slow traffic on hot days.
If you do a lot of traveling in the South, and the state your vehicle is registered in allows it (Arizona should), I'd certainly get the windows tinted. The NB's have a lot of glass area and tinted windows make a difference.
I see you also have an interest in BMW diesels. I've included a link below to the engine that powers the BMW 740d. I don't know if it'll ever come to the US, but it's quite an engine. It's the most powerful TDI available in a passenger car. It produces 413 lb-ft. of torque at 1750 rpm ! Not bad for a 4.0 liter diesel. I'm sure the twin turbo's help!
Just copy and paste this link into your browser. It's a pretty intriguing engine to say the least.
http://www.sae.org/automag/global_viewpoints/02.htm
-Steve
It is my understanding, although I don't have the particulars, that VW is using the "new" a/c compressors. They are starting to be used by several manufacturers, they are less friction, and spin with less resistance. I read about them some where, (maybe Car and Driver), and researched it on Fred's TDI website: in there under a/c, someone said, that VW is definitely using the new designed compressors. They are less power robbing than the older ones and easier on the small engines. They are not, to my understanding the electric ones that are being used on some cars in Europe.
I hope this is true, as that makes the Beetle more advanced, and better able to cool down the interior, with less power from a wee engine, and as well less mileage lost! This is yet another reason I want the New Beetle, a/c is your life down here..........I want the best designed I can get, not a system that is 40 years dated, as in some manufacturers!
TDIs - if you want great 'gas' mileage, but want better performance, I know someone that has modified his NB TDI with a Garrett chip and exhaust system. His car now makes about 150hp and over 200 ft/lbs of torque!
well folks, the time has arrived and i am proud to inform you that i got exactly what i wanted!
went and test drove a 2000 dark blue new beetle gl this morning, put down a deposit and on tuesday july 11, i'm going to sign the final papers with my cosigner and will drive off with my new car. called the salesman at charles maund today at 5pm and found out that my credit was approved!!!! so three cheers for me, the most paranoid carbuyer charles maund has ever seen. the guy i've been talking to, Tommy Luna, was extremely nice and i'd recommend him to anyone in the austin area thinking about buying a new vw beetle. i was impressed!!! i'm so happy i don't know what to do with myself. big thanks to all the people who've given me advice: it was appreciated more than you could know.
it's funny, on the way there this morning, my fiance and i were whining because we couldn't seem to find a gl model within a 100 mile radius, and wouldn't you know it, we go down there to test drive and pick a model and immediately make a bee line to the only gl on a lot filled with about 19 gls and glx models. reduced price, cd changer and manual windows almost made me weep. so that's that, i'll still be coming here though,especially if all hell brakes loose and the car turns out to be a lemon. wish me luck...
once again, thanks everyone, every posting here has been helpful.
kelliekittie
A REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY HAPPY HUMAN BEING!!!!!!;-)
forever in dept to your priceless advice
A few observations from my week in Michigan's U.P.:
1) The air conditioning worked fine and didn't rob too much power. Still averaged over 47 mpg in my TDI.
2) I am going to look into getting my windows tinted. Sooooo much window space to heat up the car.
3) There is plenty of power for everyday driving. I had no trouble driving aggresively on two-lane highways, punching it to 80 or 90 to make passes. It's no 1.8T, but that's probably good for a leadfoot such as me.
The dealer ran some diagnostic tests on the car and found out that the airbag CPU is fried, and needs to be replaced. The problem is that it costs over 600 bucks plus at least one hour of labor. Pretty steep!
I'll try to check with VW if they can replace my airbag CPU without charge, and this being a pretty common problem on the NBs involving the driver's safety, I'll also check if it can't be the subject of yet another recall on this car.
Anyway folks, before your car goes outside warranty, try to see if you can't check on your costly aibag CPU's health. There's no telling when it will bail out on you.
anyhoo, just wanted to share the good news with all you helpful people at this forum.
big smiles,
from "kellikittie" and "rust"
carlady/host
Anyway to all those that have their Beetle already.......enjoy!!...... and wish we were at that point now!!!
Now you have to come up with a name for him/her. My cars name is Pepe (he's built in Mexico and a GLX, so he's peppy, hence the name).
You may want to join the fine folks at www.beetlebuzz.com. You don't have to abandon anyone here, but the forums at BB are packed with useful info everyday. No one there cops an attitude either, which is rare on some forums. It's a nice place to get to know other Beetle owners too.
Car2ns
what they were going on about had absolutely nothing to do with the title of the forum. anyhoo, thanks again.
many smiles from a driving fool,
kelliekittie
ps i think i'm gonna name my baby tinkerbugg...
i hope no else named their car that. if so, oooooops and sorry;-)
sorry bout the summer home in hell, hope it all works out....
smiles and waving hands,
kelliekittie
I appreciated reading your well thought out evaluation of buying a TDi vs. a Regular engine Beetle. What can you tell me about ongoing maintenance costs comparing the two? I understand that diesels don't require as much maintenance, i.e. spark plugs, etc? I was just wondering if that might be another way in which the TDi would run for less over the long haul.
Thanks for your appreciation of post #378. You
bring up a good question about maintenance cost's
in your above post. I don't have the scheduled
maintenance intervals for the 2.0 gasser, so I can
only give my best guess concerning the scheduled
maintenance. Yes, there are going to be a few more cost issues other than just fuel economy between the 2.0 gas and the TDI engine, but I think the maintenance cost's will be fairly close with both engines. I'll be back in the United States in a couple of weeks, and maybe then I can get the facts about the 2.0 gassers scheduled maintenance intervals and compare them to the TDI.
It's true, the 2.0 gasser will need plugs, wires,
cap and rotor eventually. Off-setting this though, the TDI probably has a more frequent fuel filter change than the 2.0 gasser. There's sure to be other scheduled maintenance items associated with each engine, but the costs are probably similar.
The TDI also recommends an API rated CF-4 or CG-4
synthetic oil due to the higher soot levels inside
the engine. This is some excellent oil, but expect to pay at least $5 a quart. The silver lining though, is that the recommended change interval with this oil is every 10,000 miles (change the oil filter also!). That's an interval up to double what a lot of manufacturers recommend for their engines, whether using synthetic oil or not.
Probably the most expensive scheduled maintenance
item you'll face with both engines will be the
timing belt replacement. The change interval for
the '00 TDI belt is 60k miles. I'm not sure what the interval is for the 2.0 gasser. Most overhead cam engines nowadays use a timing belt, and they all have a recommended service interval that varies, usually from about 50k to 100k miles. Expect to shell out about 400 bucks if the dealer services it, mostly due to the labor cost.
As far as durability goes, I'd hope that any
modern engine and driveline would live to see 200k
miles or more before needing some serious
attention. I've heard plenty of people say that
the TDI should last well beyond 200k, due to it's
more rugged construction. Maybe so, maybe
not.....it's built that way because it has to be!
It operates under near double the compression ratio of the 2.0 gasser, and it's turbocharged to
boot....it had better be a more rugged design! I
think more than anything, the fact that it makes
it's power at a much lower RPM and is geared to
take advantage of that low RPM power, is more of
the key to it's durability than it's more rugged
design. The 2.0 gasser spins it's RPM's about 22%
faster at any given speed, in any given gear than
the TDI, so theoretically I'd expect the gasser to
have a service life 22% less than the TDI. This
may or may not be the case though, just my observation!
Maybe someone who has access to the scheduled
maintenance intervals of a '2000 TDI and 2.0 gasser can do a 60k mile cost analysis of the two. You might also need to find a service writer willing to take the time to quote the parts cost, and flat rate labor cost involved in the scheduled maintenance. Probably easier said than done!
-Steve
--2000 New Beetle, TDI, Yellow, Black leather,
Luxury package
I'm shopping for a new beetle and finally found one in the color I was looking for: green. The only problem is that it isn't a turbo. I really love the car, and around here, green is really hard to come by. I had originally wanted a turbo, but I'm now considering the 2.0 115hp. Is the turbo really that much better?
I have been considering the NB for a long time now, and decided to act now that 2001s are coming. It is just really hard to decide between the different models.
TDI is a strong contender because if you think petrol prices are high here, you should try Europe! Where I am from, they are about four times the prices here. This is a consideration because we will go back to Europe eventually with the Beetle. However, doesn't diesel engine usually emit quite foul fumes? Any TDI owners input on this?
Thanks,
Soili
the turbo and the 2.0 are much different cars in terms of performance. Why do you want the car? What do you want out of it? What are you driving right now? The 2.0 is a great car, is loaded with features, and can get you from A to B in a beautiful, fun machine. But it's not going to give you performance. The turbo has even more features and can surprise most other cars with its performance. However, it will cost you more and requires premium gas. Drive them both (if you can) to see which fits you, your driving style, and your budget.
soili--
there has been extensive discussion of that here and elsewhere (there isn't room for me to go through all of it here). The new generation of diesel engines are much cleaner than their predecessors. People are surprised to hear that my car is a diesel...though it does emit a little soot.
I went for the extra horsepower because I live on a Mountain - and 4 cylinder cars and mountains don't mix very well. This car has got the pep, I even accelerate up the hills!
You may pay a little more to fill the turbo up, but the performance you get will be well worth it!
Best of luck!!!!
We bought the car last September and I now have about 9300 miles on it. It is used mostly for commuting (10 miles each way), but we've taken it on a couple small trips. It is much better in the mountains than a normally aspirated car!
Good luck deciding!
Email delgado@vw.com.mx He works at the factory and has helped others I know of that were having problems the dealer couldn't figure out.
I'm sure he is pretty busy, but I think he'll get back to you.
Best wishes.
I too have fallen in love with the NB and now to my horror, have been informed that Californians are now deprived from this wonderful vehicle. Help someone....!
tdibugblues
The recommended oil change interval for the TDI is in the 7000 mile range, I believe, so I doubt it would even be that much.
Some maintenance will cost you more with a TDI (or a VW in general), and some will be less because there are fewer moving parts for the diesel. All in all, it's a mixed bag. I bought my VW TDI because I LOVE the way it drives, and the projected maintenance costs are acceptable.
That $60 may include extra service required on the TDI, such as draining the water separator at each oil change, or perhaps the dealer installs synthetic oil routinely. The TDI and 1.8T require oil changes every 5000 miles/6 months, while the 2.0L is 10000 miles/12 months. All scheduled maintenance is at no charge for the first 2yrs/24000 miles, so I haven't looked into prices for the service yet. My car goes in to the dealer for the first oil/filter in 10 days, I'll try to remember to ask the cost.
Thanks for the info on the oil changes. I suppose your right what is another 140.00 for a car that I fell in love with. The dealer in the Topeka Kansas area sales them for sticker and will not go down any on price but other dealers in even bigger markets are still like 1500-2000 over sticker. That is insane. I never ever even paid sticker for a car yet always gotten better deals but it looks like I'm going to have to shell out sticker in order to get this one. I have to admit though there never really ever has been a car that I must have but this is defintely one. Have either one of you had any problems with your new beetles?