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Comments
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Frequent misalignments is usually the common symptom of unsprung weight (additional weight at the wheel hub, usually due to heavier wheels & tires or aftermarket rotors). These cars will need frequent wheel alignments and the brake rotors might warp often as well. Adding heavier disc brakes will also produce similar results which sounds like what SCC did to the ZX3. Some cars (like the Acura Integra, BMWs and others) though, can take some unsprung weight with almost no problems due to a more heavy duty suspension that has higher limits and doesn't flex as much. Even if you upgrade the multiple bushings which are a major component in any car's suspension, you still have to take in consideration other joints, end links, bolts, nuts, rigidity of control arms, etc. that might not be up to the task of supporting greater amounts of stress and forces from the heavier wheels & tires than now grip a lot better and require more from the car's suspension.
Too much unsprung weight will hurt pretty much any car though, over time. So a little tire squealing and skidding may be intended because the manufacturer knows your suspension may not fair too well supporting much grippier tires..
Anyway I think I 'm going off topic again :-)
I doubt we 'll see too many supercharged ZX3s especially ones with brake upgrades, but you never know!
It's funny how SCC soops the hek out of Civics all the time and they 're usually impressed with them. Probably because the Civic has a much larger aftermarket support so there are a lot of different manufacturers and goodies to pick from.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Looks like Honda is giving Ford some business. : )
Yeah, the rotors look cool but why invest in them if you're not going to show stopping distances? SCC should have done the whole test, not just the juicy part.
Overkill? How about the nasty wing they have on the top of the car! The amp and speakers can't help performance either!
The term most used with Japanese cars is "Rice". The SC-ZX3 would be? Wheat? Mods that make people think your car may be fast? Whatever happened to the sleeper? That's the way I'd do it. Don't let them know what hit em. I used to hang out with guys who did alot of street racing 10-15 years ago. The car that was the most fun was the 85 Lincoln Town Car with a full exhaust overhaul and the juice. Nothing like seeing a Mustang get stomped on by daddy's Lincoln (or so the Mustang thought)
I like the idea of a hot rod Lincoln. One of my old college friends still has the Ford Country Squire wagon from the late sixties that he grew up with - the body and interior are vintage 60's suburbia, but he's got a rebuilt 429 under the hood running nitrous and stump puller gearing out back. Now, he has some fun at the lights stomping Mustang Cobras and Boxsters
to a civic is an achievement in itself.i have
stated many times the civic is a reliable vehicle
with a proven track record.that is a compliment.
to alpharomeo- of course,the u.s. market is a risk
and major investment.if your euro hatches are as
good as you say they are,the risk is worth it.do
they lack the confidence and expertise of their
japanese competitors?
I've created a new topic that may be of interest to you. Check out our conversation on European vs. Japanese vs. US hatchbacks.
carlady/host
I will restrict 'these' discussions to the new column.
Stereo, rear wing... what did they do? Rice the ZX3 up? That's funny.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
ford focus to honda civic is a fair one.apples to
apples and you know the rest.the point is these two mfg.honda + ford can design,build.distribute + de-
liver reasonably priced,affordable for the masses
in the u.s. and overseas reliable vehicles.so where
are the comparable euro models.thats just it they dont exist here.by the way, you know what really upsets me,alpha? we got that nice carlady all
fired-up.
a saturn.
about is that i lack bad taste.if i misinterpert
other peoples post that is because i read them correctly and you counter points that were never
incorrectly interpeted.based solely on my analysis
of your previous post,you have a tendency to attack
an individual personally.to state an opinion or present an argument whether to agree or disagree
is commendable and adds value to the discussion.
if one must resort to attacking the poster rather
than the posting,that to me demonstrates lack of
any culture and class. peace!
I notice that if a viewpoint (even when facts are presented) is different from another post, the result is that original author writes an attack-like post back.
In reality, it is NOT a personal attack, but a different viewpoint! If you feel that you must strengthen your viewpoint...do so...in words and facts. That is how people listen. They do not listen when one is personal and agressive.
It is far from ideal to have everyone agree with one another. AlphaRomeo has brought in a lot of interesting viewpoints and others get hostile towards him when his view is different than theirs. The result is that Alpha will think....That's it...I won't post anymore. That will be a loss.
I hope I am not in trouble with Car Lady by being off topic. Maybe I should say something about a Honda.....Will there be a hatchback model in the 2001 CIVIC???
ND
ND
156=style+class+quality
But to get back on track... and 'on topic' for this forum: why on earth does Honda choose to 'retire' the Civic from the US market? It seems to be really popular, and my bet is that they still 'dominate' the inexpensive hatch segment in the US. From reading several columns on hatches, it would even seem that a lot miss a hatch version of the Si. (I do).
model.i cant see them conceding that market.there
just may be a renaissance of sorts for smaller
hatches like the civic and focus here in the u.s
there is nothing wrong with" automotive passion".
sharing thoughts+ideas about the cars we drive,like
or dislike is all a part of the human experience.i
never take anything personal,life is way to short.
peace!
To you ZX3 owners, I remember reading an English car review in which the handling of the ZX3 was rated higher than the recent Opel Astra Coupe (an 'Integra' type hatch made by GM/Opel/Vauxhall). Just thought I'd let you know...
design.the look can obviously turn-off many buyers
regardless of how well it handles.the handling +
overall road-feel is its strong suit.im sure you
know many car buyers who buy solely on looks.this is where i believe the difference lies between the
import + domestic vehicle.historically, i believe
the imports were better handling vehicles.it is only recently that ford in u.s.started to bring
about more of a drivers car.i.e contour+focus.
my comment of your pic post was not meant as an
insult.i will look at a car and immediately register a thought of the overall design.a grille
or side panel or rear will remind of certain vehicles.quite frankly,when i first saw the pic
of the zx3,i had said to myself,"what the hell is
that"? thats why i call it the beast.its ugly +
beautiful at the same time.i wish the front-end was
different than the sedan,just to discern the two
from the front.
To convince ME to buy a ZX3, Ford would have to make an effort about the interior layout and quality (and please, DROP that darn shift light!). But again, it's a personal thing. We also have to remember that there really aren't that many 'exciting' small cars in that price range.
I went to see a Mazda Protege. I read a lot of good about it, and the car certainly has a quality feel about it. But it's not exactly exciting. My wife even told me she thought it looked ...'Lada-like'!
Boxy is all the rage right now but I prefer an organic approach.
But sometimes, it seems to me that some manufacturers go out of their way to create a 'look which will sell'. If scoops, intakes, spoilers or other attachments are purely cosmetic, they tend to lose their appeal very quickly (the fake 'intakes' on the Mustangs are a perfect example). Personally, I welcome new thinking in terms of car design. Audis are a perfect example of 'no-nonsense' design which pleases me (particularly the A4).
In my opinion, the Focus is fairly 'no-nonsense' too. It IS definitely 'modern' though!
Funnily, if I were told that Honda were to 'update' the Civic a few years back, it wouldn't have altogether surprised me if it had looked like the Focus. Darn... I'm going to get really unpopular with both sides for having said that!
I hate stuff on a car that has no function. I second your love for Audi.
i have to comment on the above. the celica is an excellent example of another love it or hate de-
sign. the youngsters seem to be buying. i see many
in all colors in the philly area.i like the shape,
i tend to like that wedge shape,on that type of
car.it looks like its moving even at a standstill.
growing-up in the 60's the muscle cars were all the rage.based on what i hear + see today the kids tend
to like more of an up scale vehicle.in 1976-1977
one of the most popular cars on the road was the
toyota celica in that deep purple color.they were everywhere.the rear had a shape similar to an older
mustang.i also dislike tack-on stuff that serves no purpose as well.fake hood scoops,spoilers on any
type of car made etc.the 1969 chevelle ss 454 had
a real active cowl-induction that was functional.
you rarely find something like that on todays vehicles.honda im sure has something to surprise their fans.this competition thing is just heating up.the consumer will be better for it.
I 'm one of those that don't like the Celica. I think it's kinda small and reminds me of my old '90 Geo Storm. No wonder it weighs 2500lbs. I also saw the new Toyota MR2 Spyder when I went auto-x racing last weekend and hated its looks. It was smaller than the Celica (the front is almost identical) and not much room for storage or people! This explains its 2200lb curb weight. The car was also about a foot off the ground - huge ground clearance and the wheel well gap was about 6" between the tire and the fender. Ugly design. I 'm sure they 'll have lower aftermarket springs for it soon but it just doesn't appeal to me at all the way it comes. I 'm sure they 'll grow on me over time. I don't think the Miata has anything to worry about from the new MR2.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
only1harry,you are right,after seeing no less than
5 celicas today,they do appear to be smallish.
since honda is discontinuing the hatch(at least for now). we didnt want to see the topic dry up.
I 've seen 2 road tests (by Automobile and autoweek I believe) of the DX hatchback. 0-60 times were 8.7s and 9.1s. The HBs are very light and fairly quick for only having 106hp.
I 've also seen a DX coupe road test that was 9s 0-60. So I tend to think that the 9.1s HB roadtest was done by an inexperienced driver.
Motortrend tested 14 or 15 compact cars in their last issue and the Civic LX 4dr went to 60 in 9.4 sec. Now keep in mind the LX is about 200lbs heavier than the DX hatchback, and the DX coupe is at least 100lbs heavier than the HB.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
These last few days I've been to at least 4 different Honda dealers, 3 Ford dealers, 1 Mazda dealer...
Why? well, while my heart said 'Go for the Golf', my wallet screamed 'CONSIDER THE CIVIC OR THE ZX3'!!! (like I've said, both of which I consider to be really fine cars).
At the end of the day, my heart won, and my 2001 GTI 1.8t will be here in a few days.
Anyway... I just wanted to say that in those few days, my experience with Honda and Ford dealers alike (New Jersey) has been terrifying. They did just about everything possible to alienate me as a customer... repeating several times 'oh, you want a CHEAP car?'. Or incessantly asking why I wanted a stick shift. Or telling me to check out the latest Ford 'Harley-Davidson' pick-up truck (a complete horror)... What great logic, with a customer who comes and shops for a hatchback!!!
The prize for idiocy has to go to 'Planet Honda' in Union where I called beforehand to check whether they had any Civic hatch in stock. Yeah, sure, 'we have three, really nice... what's your name? phone number? (the usual crap). When I turned up the next day, it turned out they had three Hatches. TWO AUTOMATICS, and yeah... one stick which was inside the showroom with about 10,000 dollars of ludicrous mechanical and visual mods. The car looked like a pimp hatch! (and give me a break... 20,000 USD++ for a car with rear drums and no tach, (but yes, it had the carbon imitation interior).
Where does this idiocy and mediocrity end? Well, I won't tire you with every stupid word I've heard, but I started going really tired of all that bs, and I figured, if I can get my 'favorite' hatch for 20 grand, with all options included (I love that from VW, thank you!), the difference in price was partly the price I had to pay to avoid dealing with some of the most incompetent people on the surface of the earth.
One last thing: the two best salespeople I talked to in my quest for the holy hatch were two women in their 40s who had been in the business for over 15 years. They knew listened and paid attention... (like my VW dealer did too. That's one reason I just bought my second car from him)...
Again, in my experience, the palm goes to Planet Honda in Union: every single car in their showroom was modified in some way or another. Just about everyone of them had dark tinted windows, exhausts of pornographic dimensions, chromed wheels (yearsckschh!!!!), fake badges and other what not... I just don't get it...
But truly, when I went to the Ford dealership in Morristown, asking to see the Foci they had in stock... the Ford salesmen who on the way to the parking lot stopped in front of the H-D Ford Pickup... he looked at in awe (the only thing I noticed were the ugly 'fat-boy' imitation wheels), took a deep breath and faked a tremor which starting from his feet, slowly seemed to find its way up his spine. Maybe he was faking orgasm or something and expected me to share his strange fetish. I just walked on and said "uh... that's just not me..." A good salesman would have saved his acting skills to fake (multiple) orgasm in front of the Foci. They definitely deserve it more than that ridiculous Ford Truck "Viagra Edition"...
Are there any changes in that model when comparing it to 2000 1.8t model?
How much did you pay, and why so much?
Good luck
I paid 19,750.- which included the CD changer in the trunk. (645.- under MSRP) - I don't think it's easy to get them much cheaper right now...)
Other than that, the car doesn't really have any 'options' as the VWs come pretty much with everything from the factory (sometimes too much to my taste, as in the upscale GLX which has just about everything imaginable - like rain sensitive wipers :-) )
Among other things, 'standard' specs include anti-theft, moonroof, ABS, ASR (anti-slip regulation), power-you-name-it, and YES! new CUPHOLDERS (lol). There are probably other less palatable things included, like the engine and stuff, but that's superfluous, right? ;-)
My car is black, with the new black GTI cloth interior. The 2001 models have a few changes, like an upgraded 'sports suspension', which is tighter than the one on the 2000 model (check out http://vwvortex.com/ for a full update on specs and a test drive of the 1.8t). Other than that, it's business as usual...
To FOCI owners... I saw a pitch black one today (new) which looked really good... I'm happy my GTI is black too...
One dealer set me up with a kid who had just started, we went around and around and he finally asked me what I'd pay for the car. I told him $12,200. He walked over to his manager told him he thought he had a sale and the manager just about hit the roof. He came over and told me he couldn't let the car go for $12,200. (I knew that.) The manager continued to talk down to me in a nice manner. He told me he could sell me the car for $13,700 and that was as low as he could go. He said go tell your wife you did a good job reserching things on the internet and that this is a good price. What an [non-permissible content removed].
In the end I called 7 dealers, one finally told me they'd sell me my car for $13,400. I had it within 3 days.
I 'm sure I 'll run into you on some Jersey highway. I work in NY but work in NJ. I 'm usually on 287 a lot but take the Garden State Pkwy frequently too. I tried challenging (I normally don't do this) a couple of GTI 1.8T on Rt.287 but they didn't byte. One guy was on the left lane doing 65-70mph and wouldn't move. So sad that they have such nice machines and don't use half their power.
As far as dealers go, a lot of them are not really stupid, just liars and manipulative people that try to sell you something you don't want for the most money. Their problem is that they become insulting when they don't mean to and think all customers are stupid and undermine our intelligence. Some, like the quivering salesman you had, are real retards with very low IQ. I mean who else would try and sell you a pickup truck when you 're asking to see a ZX3? I 'm still laughing about that.
My last purchase was through www.carsdirect.com and I was very pleased. No haggling, no negotiating, nothing. Very painless, I highly recommend buying through companies on line. Got my '99 GSR for $19.8K, $400 under dealer invoice (there was a $1K factory-dealer incentive, dealer only made $600). Before that I went to 5 Honda dealerships to get the price I wanted. When I walk in, I tell them straight forward, I don't want any BS, don't try and change the color, or anything or change my mind about anything, you got the car, yes or no? and let's talk prices. Finally in order to get the price I wanted I lied just like they do. I walked in late at 8:45pm into the 5th dealership (thanks Edmunds for the tip to go late just before they close), because I knew they had a black Civic HB, and tell the salesman: "I 'm going to ask you one question, if you answer it right, you got yourself a sale tonight, if not, I walk out and I don't want to discuss anything further, is it a deal?" and the guy says sure.. So I said can beat a $12,600 price I got from the last dealership by $100 for a 5-sp DX HB with A/C? If so, I 'm buying the car tonight. He goes, WHAT?? Let me speak to the mgr. I said: I just want a yes or a no, nothing in between. He comes back and says sure but you sign the contract tonight and put down a deposit now. (Isn't that was I said I was going to do?). So I got the Civic for $12,500 and stayed there till 9:45 filling out the paperwork with the lights shut and the cleaning lady vacuuming, etc. Now the truth is, the best deal I had made was $12.7K and not 12.6K but $12.5K was the number stuck in my head and was desperate. By asking him to only answer YES or NO, I prevented him from asking me where I got this quote, who the salesman was, etc. because most of them know each other because they transfer cars or buy cars from each other.. Anyway, they made about $400-500 on the car.
So my lying manipulative methods worked in my favor but I went through hell at the first 4 dealerships, and that wasn't my first new car. Never again! thank god for the internet!
Good luck with the car. If I ever see a black 1.8T stuck on the side of the road I 'll pull over and help you. Just kidding! :-) Just put an A or an Alpha on the back of your car so I know it's you. Better yet put an Alfa Romeo sticker somewhere on the window so I 'll recognize you. I 'm sure we 'll run into each other. My GSR is red with no stickers whatsoever and looks totally stock to the untrained eye..
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Yeah... I was 'all over the place'... (was an inch away from getting the GSR or even a Si...).
Hey, if I had the money, there'd be a lot of cars in my garage (if i had the money, I'd have a garage that could accomodate more than one car!).
I'll be looking for you on the highways too, but after I've read about your GSR, I certainly won't race you!!! (or maybe when/if I decide to chip the baby, but I'm more of the 'buy and forget' type of person..., so I guess I'll leave it as is).
Anyway, I'm extremely happy with the car. Compared with the Honda/Acuras, it's more 'subdued' in terms of decibels, which I actually find very comfy (darn... I'm getting old!). I'm keeping it under 4500 rpms until I hit 600miles (amazing, the acceleration is remarkable even under 4000rpms).
To everyone here... imagine if we started a new 'design and engineering' company which would produce exciting hatches... I'm sure we'd come out with the ultimate machine!!!
No, actually I 'd break the car in properly the first 1,000 mi. and then put it on.
Good luck and vary the engiine speeds!
PS. Smart of you not to race
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
like them .