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Comments
I leased the car at Mike Shaw Buick Saab in Denver, Colorado, and paid tax of 7.46% (state and county). The missing $116 on the down payment is city tax (I think), which for some reason I was required to pay up front for the entire lease term, and probably also luxury tax on the amount over $35,000.
It's my perception that manual transmissions are much cheaper over the life of the car. I would imagine that an overhaul of a Saab automatic would be very expensive. We own an '87 Saab with manual, which has given us superb service, but notchy shifting in older Saabs is legendary.
We do little city driving, so that would be a small factor. I would appreciate any thoughts on: ease of operation, smoothness of shifting,
power tradeoffs, etc. Thanks for your input.
http://www.thecarplace.com/saab95.htm Who pays MSRP for a SAAB? For an Audi, yes, MSRP or close to it is the norm. Wardlaw just confirms he is a clown masquerading as a journalist.
Ask yourself why if Wardlaw hates SAABS (as evidenced by his complaint over key placement) he is allowed to review one for Edmunds?
How can Edmunds allow an avowed anti-SAABite to review a SAAB. Where is the journalistic intergity. Reviews should not be just an opinion piece by a someone with an axe to grind.
http://carpoint.msn.com/vip/Jedlicka/Saab/9-5%20Wagon/1999.asp
Seriously, had Car or Driver, or one of my favorite car critics, Warren Brown, of the Washington Post panned the car, I would have much more concerned. Saabs are far from perfect, but for those of us who like something different than the generic people movers proffered by the big three and the Japanese, Saab will do nicely.
It was the luck of the draw that Wardlaw had to endure a breakdown with the 9-5. In 15 years of driving Saabs, I've never been let down on the road. However, I've had the tow truck out three times in the last five months to tote away our Ford Taurus. But that's another story.
and that some points are silly or wrong. I
wouldn't be quite so insulting, though. I assume
his first car failing colored his perceptions and
made him seek fault, although he has trashed saabs
in previous reviews. His hatchet of the 9-3 is
even more flatly wrong:
http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/whitmore/99Saab.9-3.rt.html
(look down at the end)
Getting dusted by a metro? Yeah, whatever. Rip
the turbo out and the 9-3 is still way faster, so
proper turbo spooling has nothing to do with it.
His comments on how hard the 9-3 is to drive makes
him look like a pretty pitiful driver, because I
know several amateurs who pull off the 9-3 pretty
well. My wife managed to do better than him in
five minutes after not driving a manual trans car
in 5 years. He says he prefers the a4, though it's not even close to the same category car in speed, safety, interior & storage space, etc. Makes you wonder about this "automotive journalist."
(back to the 9-5)
For example, complaining about the lack of four-wheel drive when this is nowhere near standard in the class is a bit silly, as is complaining about key on-the-console. I mean, come on. People get used to it. I'd like to see him back his claim that other cars for the less offer the same. I'd say this is pure hooey, particulary, but not just if, you consider real purchase price. Key fob interfering with window controls, Yeah, if you stretch it out over them like in the picture. I also take issue with his complaint of "undersuspended" and am surprised he'd say this, particulary when other reviewers commented 100% in the opposite direction. Considering the 9-5 has sportscar-like slalom times, this is even more odd. His comment about not being able to adjust the front seat to support buttocks and thighs are contrary to my experience, but these parts may be differently shaped ( e.g larger ) on him than on I.
He does compliment the car in several areas, roominess, power, safety, and I agree with his issues with interior storage. His few legitimate gripes don't justify his negative conclusion, though.
Take it as a not 100% bad review from someone who has a problem with saabs, and had a bad experience with this one. It would be nice if there could be a rebuttal section, though, or if they'd given the review to someone else.
dave
Hey, a bit more handling and little more storage would be nice. In the mean time I am going to enjoy the heck out of what Saab has built!
Secondly, if the car came from Saab USA, what are they doing offering up the said "preproduction" example, heavily hammered by the ink stained wretches. Not exactly the way to get your prime product properly reviewed.
My interest in this? I just ordered a loaded 2000 3.0L SE wagon, my first Saab ever, here in Canada for low $ 50,000 Canadian Monopoly money. Mr. Wardlaw sure made me spill my tea, until I figured that this review does not reflect well on either Edmunds or Saab, or do justice to a very fine automobile that I can't wait to get my hands on.
Also, some of his complaints were probably due to driving a pre-production model. One of the Saab dealers in the Wash. DC area had several pre-production 9-5 sedans they were trying to sell. The front suspensions had a different feel than the production models, and the interiors had a musty smell. As a result, they have not been able to get rid of all of them.
The car I want is a 5 speed and I will want a specific color and options. How long does it take to order a car from Saab?
Has anyone dealt with car order.com? How does this service work.
Are there discount Saab parts dealers on the internet?
Drive Safe,
Joe
http://home.jtan.com/~joe/joe.htm
Wardlaw's review - WRONG!! - The VW Passat wagon is not in the same ballpark - underpowered(only the 150 hp four is available in the wagon) and much more body roll and noise. Also, the rear seats tilt outboard! The Subie isn't there either! Also, I paid $32,000, which was $10,000 less than the Audi, and $12,000 less than the BMW. So, I think someone ought to have him examined!
Most of his negative comments don't make any sense. Actually, the whole review does not make sense, including the choice of V-6 automatic. It's a *SAAB*, not a Honda, for crying out loud! The proper powertrain is a turbocharged four-cylinder with manual gearbox, just like God intended. None of that Opel crap!
Placing window switches on center console makes them much more convenient for anyone driving a manual gearbox car. Your right hand does all the shifting, handbraking, window opening and key turning, without having to EVER take the left hand off the steering wheel.
And maybe this guy will someday shatter his right knee cap when he crashes his Explorer. Maybe then the inherent danger of placing a sharp metal object in direct path of the driver's knee will get through his thick scull. And he will finally realize that placing the ignition between the seats is the only logical place. That is, if he doesn't shatter his scull as well, as his Explorer certanly does not provide nearly as much safety as the least safe SAAB does.
I can't believe someone like this is an automotive journalist. He should be a censorship official in his local [non-permissible content removed].
Where can I find these hundreds of postings on carorder.com?
Joe
Good luck.
EJ
Have a look at what was lurking under my SAAB 9-5.
I'll never buy another SAAB, and I'm a previously
life-long fan ! See www.seemynewsaab.co.uk for
the full story.
SAAB customer service is a bit questionable too.
Have a look at what was lurking under my SAAB 9-5.
I'll never buy another SAAB, and I'm a previously
life-long fan ! See www.seemynewsaab.co.uk for
the full story.
SAAB customer service is a bit questionable too.
Such an event is extremely unlikely and you have put forth only conjecture to refute the metallurgical analysis by SAAB AB. They allege blunt force trauma. You seem to be maintaining brittle steel a la the Titanic. Lets assume you axle was poorly cast and had a latent defect, why would SAAB deny this? DO you think they want to be defamed on your web site? Are really not attempting to extort a settlement from SAAB through blackmail. IF your case had merit, and I was SAAB, I would settle with you. Your car has suffered a massive structural failure and you are asking educated empirically experienced adults to believe a puerile explanation. Lets put it in perpsective, you leave a child at home with a valuable ship model. You later come home to find the Serapis demasted and holed below the waterline. You inquire of the child as to what happened to the bailment left in his charge and he tells you John Paul Jone's great grandson just happened to stop after a tad too many IPAs and bitters at the local pub, and in a drunken rage smashed the craft to smitherines. He then apologized, excused himself and left.
Sure, it is possible the child is telling the truth, but would ajury believe it?
Seems improbable. However, suppose the car was damaged overnight by vandals or stolen and returned without your knowledge or even that the axle just went kapooey, so what is you beef? Won't your insurance cover the damage? Are you seeking warranty coverage? What is your cause of action? Are you alleging breech of contract with SAAB? Do you think a civil jury will believe your version?
OK, assume the car was damaged while driving and somehow you managed to get it home before it gave it out. Now what? You want SAAB to do what?
points raised.
The information on the site is there for you to take or leave. You make up your own mind. I'll
do my best to leave matters of opinion and conjecture off the site.
SAAB and their lawyers trawl the site on a regular
basis, no doubt in connection with their continuous threats of legal action for 'defamation'. The site will only ever contain
facts, because they can't sue me for that. They
may try, but I will defend.
The latest position is that SAAB are offering arbitration by a UK panel of Motor Industry
representatives. SAAB are still witholding the parts removed from the car, denying my experts
the chance to analyze them. SAAB are highly critical of me for failing to produce technical
evidence to back up my position. See previous but one sentence about witholding the parts.
These are the facts. You can come to whatever
conclusion you fancy. Up to you.
Thanks.
Joe
http://home.jtan.com/~joe/joe.htm
I used CarOrder.com. The price was $23 over invoice. This was actually under invoice since dealers add a paperwork fee in this area. I believe the car will have to be ordered and it will take some time. I am planning on 8-10 weeks.
Drive Safe,
Joe
http://home.jtan.com/~joe/joe.htm
Congrats on you're new purchase. The 9-5 was on my short list, but my wife nixed it once she sat in the driver's seat. Being 5'3" she never could get a satisfactory driving position (always felt like sitting in a tub and looking over the edge!).
Did you get the On Star system ? That was one of the main attractions of the car over its competitors -- in addition to its handling and the choice of the 2.3L or 3.0 L engines. BTW which one did you get ?
Also make, sure that the you get the Standard 3yr/36K free scheduled maint. When I had gone last week, the salesperson/dealer wasn't even aware of it!
George,
'00 Passat GLX wagon with 4Motion!
I wanted a wagon with a 5-speed. This makes for a small group of cars. The Passat was on my short list, but interior styling left us a little cold. Volvo was also on my list, but they are in model change over at the factory and selection is limited. 5-speeds are out of the question.
I got the base model 9-5 with the 2.3l turbo engine. 20-30 mpg on regular gas will be a good thing.
It looks like there is nothing to do for the 3 years of maintenance per the Saab web site. Just buy the car. The offer does not include some of the 9-3 series.
Drive Safe,
Joe
You could say the passat's interior styling is a typical Teutonic style -- though, my wife and I actually like it over the Saabs. Plus, how many $30K cars now a days have REAL wood trim?!? I'll have to admit though that the Saab uniqueness eg. key location, cooled glove compartment, night time dash lighting feature, are very nice touches!
I got the same impression about the 3/36K scheduled maintenance from reading their website -- but foun it interesting that the dealer wasn't using it now as a selling point. I wonder what would happen if someone had brought in the car for servicing not having known about it ????
Enjoy the new car!!!
George
Congratulations and thanks for sharing your information. This is what makes this forum such a powerful tool for prospective buyers. Please keep us updated on how the transaction is handled and your satisfaction with the process. Everything I have read about CarOrder.com has been positive.
By the way, I was interested in the fact that you ordered the base model and the five speed. In my opinion, this is the way to go. Also, the car should be more fun to drive. The prospect of rebuilding an automatic at between $2000 to $3000 has little appeal. I have almost 175K trouble-free miles on my present '87 Saab clutch and transmission.
Good luck with your car purchase and please keep us apprised.
Jon
I am looking for the sporty look so I ordered 7-spoke mags and the two spoilers. I also went for the black pearl grill.
The Saab cargo capability impressed me with the hold down rails in the back and the roof rack. I mail ordered a bunch of accessories including the cargo rack and rails for the roof. This will make it easy to put stuff on the roof, but I won't have to wash/wax around the rails all the time. (BTW, the mail order dealer gave me a nice discount.)
The Passat interior is 100% functional, but left my wife underwelmed. That is the only thing that put the VW off the list. She will be the primary driver.
The number 2 car was the Subaru Legacy GT. Very nice car. I have 105k miles on our Legacy and the only failures have been an o-ring in the AC and the two sun visors. The 2000 Legacy is much improved, but we wanted something different and bigger. The 9-5 is about the biggest wagon you can get with a 5-speed.
Drive Safe,
Joe
http://home.jtan.com/~joe/joe.htm
I am happy that you were able to order from carOrder. Stay on top of it, though. I placed my order last month, and it was over four weeks before they notified me-- after much stalling and four rep changes-- that they wouldn't be able to order it after all. Seems they don't have a dealer in California that they can order it through. In fact, they can't even get Saabs, special order or not, in this neck of the woods. So, I will move on and special order through a dealer. So much for my great deal!!
Saab. All of the prices are for the same car.
Dealer A $1557 over invoice
Dealer B $1828 over invoice
AutoByTel $628 over invoice
BuyaSAABonline $1529 over invoice
CarOrder Week 1 $1028 over invoice
CarOrder Week 2 $23 over invoice
Funny thing is dealer A is the one that contacted
me from AutoByTel. Go figure.
In all fairness I did not give the dealers a
chance to sharpen their pencil to see where they
would go. OTOH, dealer B would not match CO.
I saved more from CO since they only charge the
state fees, not extra document prep fees. My
actual price is slightly below invoice.
I don't know why the CO price changed from one
week to the next. I live in PA. I figure the
$1005 was the same as free mag wheels.
I also saved about $600 more by ordering all of
the factory accessories from a midwestern dealer at %20 off.
I am really concerned about the above post. I hope I am not sitting here all excited about getting a new Saab when it is not comming. Has anyone else ordered a Saab through car order?
Drive Safe,
Joe
http://home.jtan.com/~joe/joe.htm
Thanks for posting the prices offered by the various agencies and dealers. It certainly shows a wide spread of prices over invoice. I noticed that BuySaabonline was quite high for a company that purports to sell at invoice. I'm not sure what drives the flucuations in pricing, but I presume it's the old supply and demand factor and, of course, the willingness of dealers and brokers to eat some profit.
I've been reading some of the postings on the CarOrder.com topic and it appears that the response has been almost overwhelming. It's obviously an idea whose time has come. Many of us who have found some sales people woefully lacking in knowledge about their product will agree.
Someone on the CarOrder.com board referenced an interesting consumer news article written by Lesley Hazelton, "Buyers changed; so should dealers" in Auto.com, in which she tells of her experience in buying a car virtually off the back of truck. She hails it as the forerunner of the virtual dealership,where the concept of just-in-time delivery of parts could be brought to just-in-time production of cars. As she points out, it would eliminate the need for dealers to stock hundreds of cars on their lots.
We'll be interested in hearing how it goes for you.
Jon W.
Rick L
Has anyone heard about a Saab-offered chip that takes the 4-cylinder up to 205 hp? It was mentioned at one time in a posting, but I haven't seen any more references to it.
Wayne
Thanks,
tempted
I have a 9-5 wagon or order with CarOrder.com. It is not on order with Saab yet, but they are working on it.
The 9-5 does have two cup holders. The second is in the arm rest. It would be OK for the passenger, but not for the driver.
I am not impressed with the load floor thing. $450 to hold 400 pounds sounds like a lot. I think it would be good if you wanted to sit back there often. I do like the cargo strips in the back. The overall fit and feel of the car is nice.
I would not judge Saab quality on the cars at the auto show. Most of them have had a hard life and little care. The 9-5 Aero Wagon at the Philadelphia show was pieced together from other bits to look like a production Aero will. The show department may have gotten it because there was a problem.
I can't wait to get my 9-5 wagon. Before kids we had a Honda CRX si. It was great fun. While we were expecting we got a Subaru Legacy wagon (front wheel drive). This car has served us well for 105k miles, but there is no love. No excitement. It looks like the 9-5 wagon will be a car that we can love.
BTW the front wheel drive Legacy and the two front wheel drive Hondas before it did just fine in the snow. All wheel drive will only help in the most dire situations.
Drive Safe,
Joe
http://home.jtan.com/~joe/joe.htm
Drive Safe,
Joe
Some general observations after 30 days and 1500 miles of driving this car:
I love the idiosyncracies of it - the location of the ignition key, the interior lights that gradually come on and off, the button to move the outside passenger side mirror to help parallel park, the night panel button, the rear wiper that comes on when your front wipers are on and you put the car in reverse. In 30 days of driving in the Washington, D.C. area and down Interstate 81 to Southwestern Virginia I have yet to see another 9-5 wagon (or even a 9-5 sedan for that matter).
The car is a good combination of fun and function. Love to drive it and love the looks of it, even though my wife thought I was crazy to buy a wagon when I am closer to 50 than 30 and have no kids at home.
Stereo is good but not great, storage and cup holders could be better, and an integrated transmitter for garage door, etc. would be appreciated, but all in all I love the car.
A week after getting the car, I drove 4 1/2 hours to visit my daughter. 99% of the miles were driven on interstate doing 75 or so. I got 22.5 mpg on the way down. Coming back, I got 25.9 mpg. Anyone else experience this kind of increase in mpg? All my driving since then has been a combination of city/highway so I can't tell if the trend is continuing.
One last thought, my wife the skeptic loved driving this car back from our daughter's college. She thought the handling and comfort was as good as or better than her Lexus RX300.
Thate are two places you will want to check out.
http://www.saabnet.com The Saab network. Good links and info.
http://www.saabclub.com The Saab club of North America. When you join you get a subscription to the Nines. I got my first issue on Saturday. They had a review of the 9-5 wagon!
Drive Safe,
Joe
http://home.jtan.com/~joe/joe.htm
Otherwise, great car.
Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Thanx,
-Alex
Any comments?
Thanks,
-Alex
I ended up calling Saab Assistance number to get some of my questions answered, also a local dealer faxed me pages from the Saab manual which covers phone installation. So I can now figure it out on my own.
All I want is that the job be done right, i.e., all built-in features and existing wiring be used properly.
Are others going through similiar experience?
Thanks,
-Alex