Subaru Legacy/Outback

ncvol · July 2003

I'd get some real quotes on both the VDC and the Bean if you are serious. The Bean looks like a better deal on paper to some because of the MSRP, but I've gotten quotes on both from the same dealer, and he quoted me a price for the VDC that was only $500 more than the Bean. Apparently the Beans are moving a lot better than the VDC's and so you can get better prices on the VDC's than you might expect.

ateixeira · July 2003

For $500 it would be tempting, the VTD and the Macintosh are easily worth that. Add stability control and seal the deal.

I tend to see differences closer to $2 grand.

-juice

sozer · July 2003

Im sry i got a little worked up, but my father just bought one today and I wanted to see if he was making a good decision. He purchased the L-SE and got a great deal on it, so sorry for the little outburst and thanks for all the help I passed it on to my father!!!!

-Steven

dcm61 · July 2003

No problem Steven. It's understandable to get worked up shopping for a Subie. Buying any Subie is a good decision. ;-) Plus, you can't beat the value of the L-SE.

Did your father get a sedan or wagon? 5spd or auto? What color?

Feel free to ask questions your father may have. Or have him join us and ask the questions himself.

DaveM (Outback Wagon, Auto, SeaMist Green / Titanium Pearl)

pathtomax · July 2003

Hello,

When I purchased my 2001 Outback a few weeks back, it did not include rear floor mats. Do they usually come with the rear ones as well? It is an odd question, I know!

dcm61 · July 2003

Yes, the Outbacks have always come standard with front and rear floormats.

DaveM

ateixeira · July 2003

Check if they're hidden somewhere under the cargo floor.

If not, go back to the dealer and ask for them. If they are lost, ask them to order you some.

-juice

bvchurch · July 2003

Just like to say thanks for responding to my a.c. question, however let me give some more info.

When I push my AC button the compressor does not come on, which I learned is because the compressor as a saftey valve that shuts it off it there is not enough of HCF134a. My Subaru has 140K on it and I can guarantee the ac has been used a lot, but I just bought it about 3 months ago. I believe my problem is just that I am out of or low on refrigerant.

I have some people tell me I need to Evac and Recharge.

Does anybody know if I have to????

ateixeira · July 2003

Check the fuse box. It seems silly, but you never know, and it'll take you 2 minutes.

-juice

senturi · July 2003

I managed to locate where the paint code is located on my '02 OB. It's located under the hood on the top right hand side near the right shock mount. The paint code for Regatta Red is 1Y2.
Thanks again.
senturi.

slickdog · July 2003

When I picked up the '01 Outback we just bought, there was no front passenger side floor mat, and someone had moved one of the rear mats up into it's place (probably an attempt to keep me from noticing something missing right away). I know it was there when my wife took the test drive though, because I sat in that seat. The dealer says they're going to try and locate one for me, because they think someone swiped it to put in another car. I'm hoping they aren't going to do the same thing to someone else!

The owner's manual for my car is absent as well. Does anyone know if they are available on the Subaru site? I just requested a PIN, but haven't heard back from them yet. The dealer is trying to get me one of those too, but I'm not holding my breath.

fibber2 · July 2003

True - a safety switch keeps the compressor from running if the refrigerant (R-134) pressure is below a set point. If it is a slow leak and the system still has 'positive pressure' (above ambient), AND if you have not lost too much of the few ounces of oil resident that lubes the compressor seals, it would be safe to buy and add from the cans and kits available at any WalMart or auto parts store. Buy/borrow a gauge and check the pressure first. As long as it reads a few psi, you may still have 'life' left in the system. You must identify the 'low' pressure side to hook up to, and follow the directions with care. A burst can from backpressure could ruin you day! In theory, R-134 is environmentally safe, as opposed to R-12. So if it leaks out again, at least you aren't doing any great harm.

But if the system has fully vented and sucked in atmospheric air, the receiver/dryer may be saturated with moisture. Refilling may cause serious system damage. You must first find and fix the leak. Then you are into full evacuation mode. They suck on the system with a mechanical vacuum pump to pull out all contamination, then refill with fresh refrig/oil.

Hope this helps,

Steve

njswamplands · July 2003

i just drove a 2.5 outback AT. impressions. nice and quiet ride. car rolled too much when throwing it side to side. car started off in 1st gear just fine, then hit second and became a dog on acceleration. materials on the inside ( had leather ) was not inspiring. the multi sun roof was kewl. plenty of headroom and legroom ( i am 6'4" ). overall i couldnt get past the dead 2nd gear lackof acceleration.. gonna try a 3.0 soon and the forester xt woohoo...

ncvol · July 2003

For $500 it would be tempting, the VTD and the Macintosh are easily worth that. Add stability control and seal the deal.

I tend to see differences closer to $2 grand.

I was frankly amazed when I got those quotes. I just hope that holds up when I'm ready to buy.

ateixeira · July 2003

These dealers are really missing on the PDI (pre-delivery inspection). Demand new replacements ASAP, if they don't respond with quick action call 800-SUBARU3 and let SoA know. You can hit them up a 2nd time when your survey comes.

Get it together, dealers!

The 3.0 is all about smoothness, you barely hear it at all. You have to check the tach to know if it's even on.

It doesn't have nearly the punch of the engine in the XT. The turbo has less power but more torque and at lower rpm, too.

-juice

raybear · July 2003

Since the car is a used vehicle, it's safe to assume it was sold as-equipped, not with all standard equipment. I'd still ask for the mats, but wouldn't hold my breath.

sozer · July 2003

Thanks again, my dad bought the wagon with the 4 speed auto, and it was in like a dark green metallic color, I don't know much else about the car cause it is brand new, but if you want more information i will be glad to ask questions. So far he loves it. Thanks again for the post.

ateixeira · July 2003

I missed that it was used, my bad. Still, I'd expect a complete set of mats as a goodwill gesture. Dealers sell for more than private party for exactly that reason.

Timberline Green Pearl, nice choice. Tell him congrats from the Subaru Crew.

-juice

ncvol · July 2003

MSRP's have been announced for the 2004 MY:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/- www/story/07-22-2003/0001986733&EDATE=

I think the VDC's price is actually a little lower than last year. I thought it was over $33k for 2003.

seadog73 · July 2003

one more try...:o))
I'm going to buy new outback 2,5 l AT wagon, version without VDC system. The dealer in Prague told me, that standard distribution of torque is 50:50 and not 90:10 as I suggested.
She said,that it depends on the set up of transm. gear from manufacturer and it can be different for Czech Rep. and for other markets.
I like the car anyway and I've already made my decision for it, I just want to know if it's just brainwashing from the seller, or if it can be true.
I'm unable to recognize that during the drive.
Thanks for answer and Best regards.

ateixeira · July 2003

Some say it defaults to 50:50 in 1st and 2nd gears and reverse. While that may be true, it really doesn't matter because it adjusts the torque split constantly and automatically.

I don't think he was trying to brainwash you, he might have been able to explain it a little better though.

-juice

c_hunter · July 2003

The H6 models will have the same feel. It's not that 2nd is geared wrong, but rather, that the transmission shifts into 2nd too quickly (for fuel economy). You can avoid this by engaging the "power mode" of the transmission -- just get a little more aggressive with the throttle, and the trans will hold 1st longer. By the time you get into 2nd, it feels a lot better. I use this trick on my LL Bean and my wife's Forester when I need to get off the line quickly. Makes a big difference.

Craig

paisan · July 2003

THERE IS NO 50/50 SPLIT ON STD 4EAT TRANSMISSIONS on SUBARUS!!!!

Here is a link:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19- 6455&highlight=4eat

That is the breakdown of the AT transmissions on the subies.

-mike

pathtomax · July 2003

Slickdog- When you call 800-SUBARU3 you can get a PIN right over the phone. Because we purchased used, I think they assume we will call. You just need the VIN #. I requested a maintenance manual directly from them and had it in about 3 days.

In terms of actually purchasing NEW floormats, anyone have any ideas where on the web? (Instead of my dealer) I can only find the rubber floor mats. Anyone use the rubber ones with luck?

ateixeira · July 2003

E-mail parts@libertysubaru.com for prices, they were the lowest when I shopped for a cargo mat.

-juice

slickdog · July 2003

Actually, my PIN showed up via e-mail this morning, so I got logged into my.subaru.com and found an owner's manual there. Still would like to get a hard copy so I don't have to jump online if I want to look something up. If you got a maintenance manual from them, perhaps they'll send me an owner's manual.

As for the floor mats, I ran into some carpeted Outback mats on allsubaru.com for $66, and seem to remember some on another site for $77, but can't find them again. Not sure what the dealers are charging.

fibber2 · July 2003

There are a number of dealer with parts sales sites on the web that various Crew members have used. The ones that are commonly mentioned include:

http://www.1stsubaruparts.com/
http://www.allsubaru.com/
http://www.lachutesubaru.com/
http://www.libertysubaru.com/
http://www.premiersubaru.com/
http://www.smothers.com/subaru/
http://www.subaruparts.com/
http://www.subaru-parts.com/

Steve

njswamplands · July 2003

drove the outback hd with AT today. much better response and did notice less dropoff between 1st and 2nd than the 2.5. the sales dude didnt even tell me about the power mode for better power on the AT. i considered it a nice all around performance. UNTIL i drove the forest xt w/AT. wow damn near torqued my neck off on acceleration. i loved the huge sunroof in the forester. just enjoyed the outbacks extra room. ugh a really tough choice coming up.....

njswamplands · July 2003

sales dude today told me 0% up to 24 months, 0.9 for 36 months. anyone else heard this???

ateixeira · July 2003

Way to put the info together, Steve. That one is a keeper, no doubt.

It's hard to bet against the kind of torque the XT offers. Of course, if you can wait, you can get both the space and that gem of an engine in the 2005 Legacy GT.

-juice

raybear · July 2003

Hmmm, my info says 0% for 24 and 1.9% for 36, then 2.9% after that--on leftover 2003 models only.

oregonaj · July 2003

We're considering the purchase of a new 6 cylinder Subaru Outback and I'm wondering what kind of real world gas mileage others are seeing with the 6 cylinder?

Thanks, Jim

njswamplands · July 2003

many things this 2 week old salesperson told me were wrong besides giving me '03 interest rates in a quote on an '04.

nygreg · July 2003

I have the H4 and get between 22-24 mpg in mixed driving. I believe the H6 gets 1-2 mpg less (not much of a difference). H6 owners??? The H6 is a nice engine.

Greg

c_hunter · July 2003

I generally get 20-22mpg in my daily commute (mixed driving). We just took a 1300 mile round trip to visit family in TN, and I got 28mpg (cruising at 75-80mph most of the way). I really love the H6 engine -- it's a gem.

Craig

ffsteve · July 2003

At 30k miles on my 2001 Bean, I get 20-22 mpg in mixed city driving, 24-25 in two lane roads over the mountains, and 26-27 mpg during 70-80mph highway driving. Pretty much all with the AC on, and on the longer trips loaded with camping gear and/or passengers.

Just had the 30k service performed at local dealer, who found the front pads worn and the rotors requiring resurfacing. Apart from regular old and filter changes, that's the only service that's been required so I'm reasonably happy. It has a bit of the driveline (differential?) whine too, but for the most part that is unnoticeable.

Still pleased as punch with the car overall, as shown by the highest 2 year mileage I have ever put on a single car. Freeway driving is excellent, and I do like driving it on the twisty mountain roads. It handles dirt and sand roads, and some off-road driving, in the local deserts well, stopping only when loose rocks (greater than 8 inches) or steep steps get in the way. Loose sand does not stop it.

I've already started on my next 30k miles with over 900 miles in the past week alone, and I haven't even left the city.

Count me among the satisfied with the H6 Outback.
Steve

oregonaj · July 2003

Thanks to all for the info on 6 cylinder gas mileage. We took the big leap today and bought a new white H6-3.0 Outback. My wife loves it so I'm happy.

Jim

c_hunter · July 2003

nematode · July 2003

16-17mpg city 24-25mpg highway. Its been as low as 16 even and as high as 29. Overall its 23mpg with a mostly highway off hours commute. The fuel economy has been one of the few bad points of the OB.

Highway speeds are 70-75mph.

pathtomax · July 2003

Hello everyone,

I have noticed that my 01 Outback Limited (4EAT, 2.5)is sluggish at initial start-up in the morning. If I don't let it idle for a minute or so, I press the gas and it takes a few seconds for engine response.

Anyone else ever notice this?

zman3 · July 2003

My 98 Outback (4EAT, 2.5L, 77K miles) also has begun doing this. I have never noticed it after the initial attempt at accelerating. I have not attempted to find a fix yet. If you discover something please let me know.

ateixeira · July 2003

Congrats, Jim.

As for the sluggish start-up on the H4, let the fuel pump prime her before you start her up. Turn the key to the on position, listen for a little "whirr" before actually starting it.

If it still happens, let us know and we'll try to troubleshoot it. Could be the plug wires, or a clogged up fuel filter, stuff like that. On our 626 we needed the fuel system cleaning to stop a pretty major hesitation we had, despite a diet of premium fuel.

-juice

jay_24 · July 2003

I've had that problem since day one with my 01 OB. I find a bottle of fuel treatment/injector cleaner does the trick. I add one about every 5-6 months. Infact I had the problem again this weekend. Tonight when I fill up I'll add a bottle and see if helps again.
(01 OB with 40K miles)

--jay

ateixeira · July 2003

Try a throttle body cleaning, it made the 626 feel like it had a new engine. Night and day...

-juice

zman3 · July 2003

I've always had a mechanic do that. Is it a do it yourself type project?

ateixeira · July 2003

Miata.net's garage section has instructions on doing that yourself, but I'd leave it up to the pros. We got great results.

-juice

senturi · July 2003

The other day I was under the hood of my '02 OB when the alarm reset itself. I forgot to disable the alarm and when I closed the hood, the alarm went off. Now when I press the blue button on the keyless entry remote, the alarm beeps 4 times rather than the normal 2 beeps when opening the driver's side door.

ncvol · July 2003

Last Friday I had to go to Montana on business, and got my first chance to drive an Outback. After my business was concluded, I had an opportunity to put the Outback to the test in the mountains of the nearby Gallatin National Forest. I drove it around the winding paved roads, and it did fine. Then the roads turned to dirt and gravel, and it continued to do well, although the ride became kind of jarring on a rutted fire road. It soaked up individual potholes quite well, however. Then it rained, and as I went off on some of the less travelled-tertiary roads, they became worse and worse, to the point where I was driving on a layer of about 2-3 inches of mud. Under these conditions, I did a fair amount of sliding, because none of the four wheels had any good traction (I would have loved to see the VDC in action on this part, but they only rented the base models). The good news was, despite frequent times where I felt like I was on a sheet of wet ice, I never got stuck going up the hill or went off the road going down it, and this was on a fairly narrow road that in retrospect should have made me a lot more nervous than it did because there wasn't exactly a shoulder on the side of the mountain. If there had been any other cars out, there may have been issues, but I had it all to myself, and the bottom line is that the Outback came through like a champ. It was probably the most fun I've had driving a car/SUV.

This doesn't completely solve my ongoing question of the next car to buy, because other than the 2 or 3 good snows we get a year here in Raleigh, I simply don't ever have anything approaching those driving conditions, but it's certainly a plus in the Outback's column when I finally make my decision. If I get an Outback, it will be the VDC, so the base model's lack of interior appoinments didn't put me off, but I'll need to see how it compares on a shorter test drive under normal driving conditions with the some of the other competitors. If the VDC's ride and luxury are anywhere near those of the others I test drive (and I was impressed with the quiet and smoothness of even the 4 Cylinder base model), I'll probably go with the VDC, because it's nice to know you can do that kind of stuff when you want to. Even with AWD, I'd never dream of doing what I did last week with a Passat or Mercedes Wagon, and especially not a Saab 9-5 that just has traction control (although they do have stability control too). About the only other competitor I might have tried it with would be the Volvo XC70, but I'm not sure that it is quite as nimble as the Outback for the tight turns.

Overall, however, it was a great experience, and unless you're planning on climbing rock walls, the Outback can pretty much handle all the off roading fun that you'll ever need. I apologize if everyone here already knows this.

c_hunter · July 2003

Cool story! We don't get a whole lot of snow here in tidewater VA, but when it snows, the roads are mostly unplowed and the Outback (and our Forester) handle it with grace. That said, don't underestimate the impact of AWD in the rain or even in the dry. It can keep you out of trouble.

I've been caught in quite a few heavy rain storms during the summer, and the Outback was a real champ. I'm talking about flooded roads, washouts, car size craters, SUVs in the ditch, etc... The Outback has soldiered through it all. If you drive sensibly and know your limits, it's about the best foul weather vehicle around.

Last week while visiting my wife's family in TN, I got to do some "light" offroading. I say "light" because my wife's little brother (15) was giving directions and leading me into tougher and tougher trails. The car was great, though I did have to do a U-turn when the trail lead into a quarry!!

My first Outback was a 5-spd. My LL Bean is an auto (only option). I have to say, the auto is way better for offroading.

By the way, the Bean and VDC are Lexus-like in terms of quiet and smoothness. If you like the H4 models, the H6 models will be even better.

Craig

ncvol · July 2003

That said, don't underestimate the impact of AWD in the rain or even in the dry. It can keep you out of trouble

Don't worry, I fully realize the benefits of a good AWD system even when you're not in the wilds of Montana. That's why just about every other wagon I'm considering has it (all except for the Saab 9-5). I'm encouraged by what I saw in the base model, and if the VDC improves on that like I think it will, that will probably be my ultimate choice. The interior of the base is pretty spartan, but the stereo did sound good, the H-4 engine was a lot quieter than I was expecting, and the shape of the seats was supportive. I was also worried about headroom (I'm a shade under 6'4"), but I had a good 3-4" to spare, hopefully the sunroof won't change that drastically. The cargo area in the back also seemed a lot bigger than I had expected.

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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