Subaru Outback VDC

ateixeira · January 2002

It's the tall gearing. I think a 5 speed auto would go a long way.

The Passat and Volvo XC get 17/24 mpg with less power, but it's because they are geared shorter.

-juice

popgun · January 2002

It's interesting to check the outside temperature sometimes when you are cruising along in cold weather while snug and warm inside isn't it? Is there someone out there familiar with where that outside temp sensor is located and knows how accurate it is? I wonder if the sensor location is subject to engine heat. Just curious....

Doug

nygreg · January 2002

I find that if the car sits, lets say, in the sun or after driving for a while, the temp is a little high (2-4 degrees). When you start driving it drops to the correct temp. I am usually within 1-2 degrees of the temps noted on bank signs and the radio. I believe someone mentioned it is located in the fender. Anyone know for sure?

Greg

eric102 · January 2002

Others have said its in the grill in front of the radiator, don't know for sure though.

Eric

theob · January 2002

On page 4-18 of the owners manual, it says that:
The sensors are found at the following locations:
 Sun-load sensor (beside the windshield defroster grille)
 In-vehicle temperature sensor (beside the temperature control
dial.)
 Ambient sensor (at the backside of the front grille)

FWIW, last summer while driving past the local airport the sensor reported the same temperature as the weatherband was reporting for that airport.

I too find it interesting to watch the temperature drop as we drive over the passes here in Colo. It was a cold day of skiing, Sunday, and when we got in the car it was 7 degrees F. No wonder we were cold! As we went up the pass, the temp dropped to 3F close to the top, but I forgot to check it at the top.

Having the VDC sure makes it easy and fun to go over Loveland Pass! I agree with Warren (smokeybaer) that the power has improved at 18kmi. If traffic allows, I just set the cruise on 70 and it has no problem maintaining that up I-70 to the Eisenhower tunnel. Our MPG is also affected by the seasonal formulation of gasoline (and the fact that the ski rack gets left on). Last summer we were getting 26 & 27 hwy (no crossbars), but we're getting around 23 now.

Theo in Colo.

theob · January 2002

Has anyone seen this? What does it mean?
This morning my wife got in the car and drive the 20 mi to her work. The VDC and ABS lights never went out. On the way, she called me. I had her turn off the car when she got there and restart it. The lights went out when she restarted it. We just had the ECU re-programmed last week. The car is almost a year old and has about 18K mi on it.
It was about 0 degrees F out, but the car was parked in the garage all night.

Thanks in advance,
Theo in cold Colo.

ateixeira · January 2002

It may be a left over side-effect of the previous service. The codes are stored, so even if the light went out the dealer can scan them and tell you what the warning was.

-juice

erics6 · January 2002

The Drive Time section of our local paper had an article on a VDC owner who was asking about chains not being recommended by Subaru.

The writer correctly recommended cable chains or Spider Spikes. What I found suprising was the drive time writer recommended putting the traction devices on the rear. Is that correct for the VDC model?

paisan · January 2002

I believe that chains if being used on an AWD vehicle should be on all 4 of the wheels. If you must use only on one axle, I'd say for a VDC to put them in the rear and take them off ASAP after becoming un-stuck.

-mike

theob · January 2002

From the '01 Owners Manual, p. 8-16:

CAUTION
Tire chains cannot be used on tires listed below because of lack of clearance between the tires and vehicle body.
 P205/55R16 tires for GT models
 P225/60R16 tires for OUTBACK models
 P215/60R16 winter (snow) tires for OUTBACK models

Driving on snowy grades or icy roads may require the use of tire chains, in which case put the chains on the front wheels only. Use only SAE class S type chains that are of the correct size for your tires so as not to damage the vehicle body or suspension.
When driving with tire chains, drive at speeds below 19 mph (30 km/h). When a temporary spare tire is on a front wheel, replace the temporary spare tire with the rear tire on the same side of the vehicle, and then fit chains on the front tires.

herbruss · January 2002

There was a long series of posts about chains on another Outback forum (yahoo's) and several people were using them even though the owners manual said they wouldn't clear. The consensus was you could but carefully. The only way to make sure is to actually test fit a set of chains with your tire/vehicle combo. It's a lot easier to fit chains to the front tires.
There are some companies (SCC and spikes-spider) that make traction devices that need less clearance than normal class "S" chains.
BTW, that statement in the owners manual has caused more upset, heartache and controversy out here in the West as chains are required by law to be carried (not worn) by AWD vehicles in most chain control areas. Normally they close the roads before it get bad enough to put them on.

jon58 · January 2002

Similar to Theob above, my "VDC OFF" and CHECK ENGINE" lights went on, but stayed on for the duration of 3 days, before I could bring it in for service. The Subaru service center says it is the computer misreading the input from the engine, and they are now sending the computer back to Indiana to have it evaluated/repaired/replaced. I'nm still waiting to get the car back. Wondering if anyone else has had similar prob.

theob · January 2002

Anyone put a block heater (P/N:A0910AS000) on an H6-3.0? The instructions that are at Subaru-Parts.com are the same as the ones that come with the heater. They refer to the plug that is removed to be replaced by the heater is on the the left side next to the hose where the coolant leaves the radiator and returns to the engine, but the only plug I could find that matched the description and wrench size was on the right side next to the oil filter.

Speaking of wrenches, that plug is supposed to be a 14mm Allen (9/16") I have yet to find one. Has anyone seen such a beast?

Thanks, Theo in Colo.

herbruss · January 2002

If your local auto parts doesn't carry a 14mm allen you can order one from SnapOn

http://www.snapon.com

Part Number AWM14C $14.35

aps5 · January 2002

Got the LL Bean this weekend, and we are very impressed. First question: on the auto climate control, is there a way to cycle through "mode" that doesn't turn on the ac as you choose the mode?
That is, can the ac be turned off during manual mode. It seems that the ac turns on briefly when choosing the mode, which can't be good.

Also, we want to tint the rear windows, and I wonder if window tinting may affect the frameless window seal..... Anyone have experience with this?

And, anyone have the Bridgestone Potenza's in snow?
We use Nokian Hakkapaliita's for snow usually, and they are the best. If the stock tires are ok, I would love to save $500.

Thanks....

smithda1 · January 2002

I believe the AC light doesn't necessarily mean the AC compressor is on but that AC is available. In Auto the AC indicator is always on even below 0 Celsius but the compressor is clearly not running.

The Potenza's are not very good in snow in my opinion. Starting and steering are not too bad but stopping is poor. Several times I have had all four wheels locked and slid albeit at a low speed. I learned the hard way that ABS only works if at least one wheel is still spinning.

theob · January 2002

From the '01 Owners manual, p4-15:
NOTE
The air conditioner compressor does not operate when the out-side
air temperature is below 32F (0C).
---------
I believe the A/C light only comes on when the compressor may cycle. We don't see the A/C light come on in the winter here, unless we override with the defrost button or the A/C button. The longer we have it, the more we just let it do things automatically.

One thing to know about the auto climate control is that any function (fan speed, air source, A/C, etc.) can be overridden by pressing its associated button, but all other functions remain automatic until their button is pressed.
HTH,
Theo in Colo.

theob · January 2002

Got the block heater in last night. The instructions that came with it must be for an H4 since it shows the freeze-plug that is replaced by the heater as being on the left side of the engine next to the lower radiator hose. The plug is actually located on the right-hand side, right next to the oil filter. Ended up using a 9/16" Allen (hex) 1/2"-drive socket to remove the plug. The fit was a little too tight, so had to pound it into the plug with a rubber mallet.

Drained and refilled the coolant, since most of it drained out anyway when I pulled off the plug. There was about a quart in the bottom of the radiator that I drained through the radiator drain.

The whole thing took me about 45 minutes since I had been under there Sunday and knew how to take off the brush guard and knew which plug I was going to try.

Hope this helps someone.
Theo in Colo.

popgun · January 2002

For JON58 (post 1314)
The same thing happened to my wife today Jon and it will be a few days before we can get it in to a dealer. I'm very interested in your situation and the outcome. Please post a follow-up on this board.

jon58 · January 2002

popgun-- I got my VDC back after 2 days at the service center. The service rep explained to me it was a faulty computer chip that had to be removed and replaced. Not being a techie, that is the simplified explanation that I drove away with... I guess I just have to trust that it was seviced properly. I've had the car back a couple days with everything seeming to work properly.... I've had the opportunity to test the VDC in an icy/snow parking lot, and it seems to engage properly. Please let me know how your car turns out!

Karen_S · January 2002

Don't forget tonight's chat!

KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs

leea4 · January 2002

I have a 2002 VDC with 3K, have had a vibration feeling in the steering wheel between 50mph & 60mph (under & over those speeds are smooth). Dealer checked it out, balanced wheels, ect., doesn't know ??? Mgr. told me they have another VDC doing the same thing. have to wait for the subaru rep. to come & check it out. Anyone else experiencing the same?

ateixeira · January 2002

I'm thinking wheel hubs/bearings. Many were installed with too much torque, and they tend to fail early if that's the case.

Ask if they checked and if not, let them have another look.

BTW, your case is very mild, so if so you caught it early. Our 626 was going "chunk-chunk-chunk" in rhythm with road speed, and that's what it was.

-juice

smithda1 · February 2002

We just had the first real snowfall up hear and I drove for 4 hrs on mostly unplowed highway with about 6 in on the ground. At one point I had to slip a little to the left because of a transport and the left side of the car caught a snow ridge about eight inches or so high which I was plowing through for about a kilometer at about 70 kph.

Immediately afterwards I noticed the ABS and VDC light on. Of course VDC is disabled if ABS is. Pulling off at a truck stop I tested the breaking and ABS was definitely disabled. Turning the car off and on reset the fault and everything has been fine since.

Still it seems unusual for the ABS to be knocked out by snow. Never happened on any other vehicles I have driven. Has anyone else had the experience of the ABS being knocked out by plowing through snow? On any vehicle?

paisan · February 2002

VDC/ABS Snow problems... THis is interesting. I had had some problems with my Trooper's TOD system getting faults in snowy conditions. In the end they finally tracked it down to bad speed sensors on the axles. Could be a place to start. I only had the problem in snow/ice/freezing rain conditions.

-mike

ateixeira · February 2002

I don't have a suggestion, but sounds like you did exactly the right thing.

-juice

n8wvi · February 2002

I experienced the exact same thing last Thursday. We had horrible road conditions (even for here [western michigan]). I called the dealer. The explanation I got sort of makes sense. He said that the VDC will work for just so long, then it figures that there's something mechanically wrong, disables itself, and warns the driver.

Dave

nowakj66 · February 2002

What sort of cargo area cover should I use for my Subaru LL Bean wagon? I have the anti-slip mat for the back area. But with the seats down I do not want to skag the backs of them.

For example, I need to transport the bike rack I pick up from the dealer home. Just want to put it in the wagon and then install it this spring. How should I protect the back area?

Should I use a carpet remnant?

Does Subaru or a third party make a full cargo area mat?

How about a canvas tarp? What seems to work best?

Also -- what do folks use for tie downs?

Thanks. -- Joe

ateixeira · February 2002

I would cut a remnant from a utility carpet, or just carry a plastic (water proof) blue tarp.

I always have a set of bungee cords in the cargo area, and I've used them many times.

-juice

herbruss · February 2002

You might try looking at http://www.hatchbag.com to see if they have what you want. I plan to order one as soon as I can spare the cash. They make the hatchbag in full (2nd seat down) and regular. Not cheap but lines the whole area up to the windows. I imagine if you're handy with a needle and thread you could make your own.

I kind of miss the 60s and 70s wagons that had rubber mats and seat backs and a fold down tailgate.

ffsteve · February 2002

I have a real fabric painting dropcloth purchased at Home Depot. Use it for a lot of things in the car (bikes, trees, camping gear) and out (ground cloth, blanket, and even painting!) and find that it washes easily too. Has just enough substance to protect the inside of the car, yet is light to car and fold up when not in use. Being washable, does not accumulate dust and dirt.

Steve

nowakj66 · February 2002

Thanks for the suggestions all. Another idea someone suggested was a padded mover's mat from a mover or U-Haul store.

-- Joe

ffsteve · February 2002

Joe, I have one of those too. Trouble is, after so many years use it is SO DUSTY and dirty, yet cannot be washed in my standard washer and I'm too short of time (spelled LAZY) to take it to a commercial wash. I still keep it "just in case".

Steve

popgun · February 2002

My earlier post concerning the "VDC off" and "Check engine" lights comming on for no apparent reason has been resolved by a dealer.... almost. The mechanic read the problem code which indicated a faulty valve in the emission control system. The dealer had to order the valve and will install it upon reciept. He noted that mine will be the third one in a period of a week that required his replacement. It is part of a carbon canister located underneath the right rear fender, nearly below the fuel filler cap. The correlation with the "VDC Off" light comming on (for a short time) escapes me. It happened on a very cold day on dry pavement. The mechanic had no explanation either. He assured me it was ok to drive untill the part he ordered arrived and reset the Check Engine light. No problem or lights since.

oclvframe · February 2002

I used to use an old blanket but I came accross a mover's mat that was left behind after a move. Since then I have used it for protection when I put my bike in the back. (I refuse to use the roof mounted bike racks because of the noise and the gas mileage). The mover's mat is nice because it is stiff enought to line the sides without folding over plus it is nicely padded. It is also very easy to fold and put up when not in use. Agree with the part about cleaning, though...I bet it would be a bear to clean.

-r

jon58 · February 2002

Popgun-- Hmmm... both of us had the same lights come on, but for apparently quite different reasons, with different repair jobs. I guess as long as both our cars are working.

doppelbike · February 2002

Just curious what kind of prices people are
paying for the VDC in various parts of
the country. There doesn't
seem to be a glut of them on the lots in the NW.

leeduncan · February 2002

You might want to check out Hatchbag at http://www.hatchbag.com/index.html

I've used one on my MY 2000 OBW and am satisfied. The velcro doesn't stay adhered to the vinyl in the cargo area very well, so I use 3 suction cup clips on the glass on each side and some trick tarp clips (blue plastic devices with a bit of cord attached to a central wedge that traps the fabric) that I picked up at Menards. It would be nice if the cover was cut so you could have the rear seat partially folded, but I don't think they provide that option. Very rugged material that cleans easily and has done a good job so far @ 40,000 miles, bikes, skis, helping a friend move....

HTH - Greg in IN

revka · February 2002

Have you tried using Edmunds' TMV New Vehicle Pricing Calculator? Good luck.

Revka

Host

Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards

theob · February 2002

I recently queried McIntosh about using their changers in the VDC. Following is the response I got:

the car specialist's reply was: "The Subaru-McIntosh O.E.M. systems will not work with McIntosh Changers. The system has changer controls, but Subaru changed their mind about getting a changer designed for the system. They offer a RF modulator changer that will work (*but has the response of the FM band). Requests for Subaru to get a Mc-Changer or ANY questions about the Subaru system can be addressed to 1-800-subaru3."

I wonder if that will change any time soon? Patti, any info you can share?

Theo in Colo.

paisan · February 2002

It's probably proprietarily setup just like all the bose system in nissans and some other high end cars. The only thing that they really buy from the audio companies are the name to slap on the front, like eddie bauer really designed the seats in the explorer or orvis for the jeep, or LL Bean for the LL bean outback. Purely for marketing purposes IMHO. The stereos are upgraded, but not true to form Bose or McIntosh.

-mike

mikenk · February 2002

From what I have been able to deduct from comparing specs and documentation, the Subaru system is indeed McIntosh components. Concerning Bose, I never considered their equipment high end for car or home systems; however,their marketing prowess (hype) is legendary.

Just my opinion,
Mike

paisan · February 2002

But in general every component in any car is built by the lowest bidder that meets the minimum criteria for the car manufacturer's needs

-mike

ateixeira · February 2002

The base speakers in my Forester were pretty lame. Paper dual-cones, basically, with 10-20 watt handling.

The premium sound are decent, at least. They are true two-ways with 15-30 watt handling. I'm sure the Mac speakers are much better.

-juice

theob · February 2002

The stereo in our VDC is by far the best-sounding OEM sound I've heard, but you make me wonder whether they just used high-grade Clarion parts and re-labeled them as McIntosh (Clarion has owned McIntosh for about 11 years).
Theo

mikenk · February 2002

"But in general every component in any car is built by the lowest bidder that meets the minimum criteria for the car manufacturer's needs

"

This is generally not true anymore for the best car companies. For example, Toyota and its suppliers (mainly Nippondenso) are actual partners in development. Toyota sets performance goals and works with the suppliers to best balance performance, new technologies, and costs. U.S. manufacturers are slowly making this transformation.

In the case of McIntosh and Subaru, I think from all I have read that this was indeed a collaboration between McIntosh and Subaru engineering to match components and car acoustics. In such a case, the cheapest approach would be using existing components modified slightly to meet the goals. From comparing audio specs, it appears that this was what was done utilizing existing Mac components. Hopefully, this is an indication that this is the way Subaru works with all suppliers.

Mike

dnd1 · February 2002

What is the problem with the VDC wagon cannot seem to find availability. what are the prospects going forward will the production numbers be increased?

dukephoto · February 2002

Where are you located that you are having trouble finding one?

Dukephoto

dnd1 · February 2002

Problems locating this model in southeastern Massachusetts and Rhode Island. I occasionally find a sedan VDC but wagons are as scarce as hens
teeth.This leads me to ask what is subarus level of commmitment to this model,will there be more production in 2003

ateixeira · February 2002

The H6 models haven't been lighting up the sales charts, but the NE is their best market. I guess they could reallocate where those VDC wagons are going, without increasing production.

Fitzmall.com has 8 VDC wagons in stock, all around $30k with freight included, if you feel like coming down to MD. They have locations in Rockville and Gaithersburg. You could take the train, and then the subway (Metro here) to get to Rockville.

-juice

Subaru Outback VDC

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