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Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments

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  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    How does a 3% holdback on an MB E320 equate to a $3000?

    Regards,
    Shipo
  • jconnorjconnor Member Posts: 1
    Nissan Holdback states "2% + 1.5% of the Total Invoice (holdback + floorplanning allowance)". Can someone explain this to me? Thanks.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Cym, you will only be eligible for any incentives on the vehicle that you purchase that are in effect when it is delivered. What you can do is negotiate a specific price for the truck that you want and agree with the dealer that this price will be lowered by the amount of any incentives that are in effect when you get your new vehicle. I'd say that there is a very good chance that Toyota will continue its incentives on the Tacoma. So, you may not have anything to worry about after all.

    Your Co-Host
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Runonmd1, I don't think that you made a mistake as far as not being able to dip into the dealer's holdback. Mercedes-Benz (or I guess that I'm supposed to call them DaimlerChrysler now) is making an effort to cut consumers' ability to negotiate on their vehicles. They aren't officially going to a one-price strategy, but that is essentially what they are trying to do. You will never get a Mercedes dealer to dip into their holdback in order to make a deal.

    Your Co-Host
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Jconnor, the 2% is Nissan's actual holdback amount. The 1.5% that we mention is called a floorplan allowance. This is also a payment from the manufacturer, like the holdback, but I believe it is intended to help dealerships with the expense of keeping cars on their lot.

    Your Co-Host
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Mark1956, if you took the dealer's invoice price and subtracted their holdback to make your offer, then there wasn't any profit left in the deal for them. We usually advise customers to subtract the holdback and any relevant incentives from the dealer invoice price so that they can calculate the dealer's approximate cost and then add a fair profit. Many dealerships will not let customers touch their holdback at all.

    Your Co-Host
  • luvboxrsluvboxrs Member Posts: 47
    FYI, Chrysler DOES charge dealers as part of the cost of a vehicle an advertising charge. Just like the dealer is charged destination, and they pass that charge along to you, the buyer.

    I don't know what the $20 owner loyalty mailing charge is. It's on the invoice for my Dodge vehicle too, which means, again, that Chrysler is charging this as part of the cost of the vehicle, not the dealership.

    As far as not being able to charge your customers added charges in your business...sure you can! Why wouldn't you be able to? If you're self employed, you can make your own rules. How many customers would you lose doing that is another question.
  • westcoastghostwestcoastghost Member Posts: 1
    Hey Car Man
    I want to buy one of the remaining Mark VIII's. Edmunds says there is $2000 rebate and a $4000 dealer incentive program until 1-14-99. The dealer says that is incorrect. The dealer says all they have right now is $5000 dealer incentive and it will expire 1-4-99. What gives? The Lincoln dealer is in the Chicago area.
  • twinsrustwinsrus Member Posts: 1
    I'm negotiating a 1998 Mercury Villager. The Edmunds website indicates that their is a $2,000 Customer Rebate and $2,000 Dealer Incentive. The dealership has shown me a printout that verifies the dealer cash but not the Customer Rebate. They say it expired 12/4/98 (Edmunds says 1-14/99). Could this be true or is it possible that the $2,000 is a regional rebate, not nationwide?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Westcoastghost, I answered your question in the other topic that you posted it in. Please check there for my response.

    Your Host
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Twinsrus, I'll check into this for you and let you know what I found out tomorrow.

    Your Co-Host
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Twinsrus, there is currently $2,000 Dealer Cash on the 1998 Mercury Villager. Also, there is $500 Dealer Cash or 1.9% - 5.9% special financing or lease support available on 1999 models. These programs are good through January 14, 1999.

    Your Co-Host
  • milairdmilaird Member Posts: 8
    I've been trying to find info on the Nissan rebates. Whether they are going to reinstate them
    after the 4th and most importantly whether the 99
    Quest will be included this time. Does anybody know of any good links for news, rumors etc. How often does the Edmunds rebate site get updated? Currently it was last updated on Dec 15th.
    Thanks
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Milaird, Edmund's will begin posting January's new incentives very soon. It may take a little longer than usual to update this month because of the enormous volume of programs that recently expired. Furthermore, many of the programs lasted several days into the month rather than expiring on December 31st. I know that Nissan was a little late at issuing dealers their new programs this month, as well. It's hard to say whether the 1999 Quest will have any new cash on it. Quest sales were strong last month (up 11.2% from last December) without any support from Nissan, so it doesn't really look like there is any need for them to increase their support on this model right now. Even if they do, I bet that it is only around $500 or so.

    Your Co-Host
  • milairdmilaird Member Posts: 8
    Thanks, that may help me make up my mind on when to buy.
  • DmatDmat Member Posts: 43
    Sorry for butting in here with this post. I am coming from the Durango page where people have been asking about Hold Back.

    I think that the biggest issue is, if HB, does in fact exist on a vehicle. How is that particular HB number determined? HB in your posts may be different on each vehicle, or non existent. I would think that more HB would be available on a slow moving car, much less on a popular one.

    Here's my problem with the thing, we have a ton of people come down to my store who have read posts on these boards. Great, you would think that my job would be much easier. I shouldn't have to go through the back and fourth. However, now, I have more customers sitting in front of me, saying that they know there is HB. What if there is no HB on that unit? Now what do I do? Do I say there is no holdback on that unit? I already know the response; "WELL, I READ ON EDMUNDS.."

    What do I do if the HB is only $200, or $500?

    And let's say that the HB is $2000. It's my job to take every deal to the desk, because I have no authority to change any number. I walk in there, look my boss in the eye, and say that I have a customer who, god bless them, is offering - $ 1,000 from our invoice, because they know about HB. They may know about HB, but like you and me, don't know how it's formulated, and don't have any idea if it can even be applied to that particular unit. I don't negotiate HB at all.

    The next time I have someone insert HB into the negotiations, I'm going to say this: "Great, you also know about HB, what is it on this unit that your buying, and how did you arrive at that number?

    Years ago, it was difficult to find out the Invoice prices on vehicles. Now, I can find any of them with the click of a button. As this information evolves, HB might be printed on Edmund's. Then someone else will make GB, or FT, or SW an issue. I'm sure that tomorrow, someone will walk into my office and tell me that they know about GB (I just made these up).

    BTW $99-$499 over invoice, ignoring HB all together, is one heck of a deal.

    Matt Drake
    http://members.xoom.com/99overNvoice/Index.htm
  • cbishop2cbishop2 Member Posts: 1
    What are the current dealer and mfg incentives for the Toyota Rav4? I couldn't find anything listed on the Edmund's page-the listings stopped at Suburu.

    Thanks,
    Charles
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Cbishop2, I have not seen all of the new incentives from Toyota yet. However, I highly doubt that they have any incentives on the RAV4. They never have in the past. I will check into it for you just to make sure and will post a message here if there actually are any incentivhes on this truck.

    Your Co-Host
  • docwarddocward Member Posts: 5
    I need some help. I'm looking at the Miata. The customer incentive is 3.9 financing. The dealer incentive is based on trim pkg. Does the dealer (in florida) have the option of offering both or does he loes the dealer incentive if he gives up the 3.9. Please help. docward@cde.com The dealer is telling me its one or the other, but it seems that they are two separate things and that both can be offered.
  • docwarddocward Member Posts: 5
    One more thing, sorry. What is the most current incentive for the Miata in Florida. I know that its 1750 for trim pkg and 1000 of leather, I think. Does that mean if you buy leather you get 1000 or 1000 plus the 1750. Thanks!!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Docward, I don't believe that dealers can get the Dealer Incentive that is available on the Miata if their customer opts for the 3.9% financing. So, I think that your dealer is telling you the truth.

    Your Co-Host
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Oh, I just saw your second message. I don't believe that you can combine the two cash incentives that you listed.

    Your Co-Host
  • docwarddocward Member Posts: 5
    I had trouble with my e-mail. I'm trying to find out about the dlr. incentive for the Miata. What is the bottom line in incentives from the dealers on the Miata, (in florida) thanks
  • tenohctenohc Member Posts: 2
    Edmunds web sites lists rebates and incentives dated 12-15-98 and many expired 1-4-99. What are the current if any rebates and incentives on Honda Accord and Chevy Malibu and when do they expire?
  • docwarddocward Member Posts: 5
    Rebate and incentive information on the Miata also expired on Jan. 4th and I'm in the middle of negotiating. At this point I'm at the dealer's mercy as far as information. HELP!!
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    You say you are at the dealer's mercy. Well, the dealer has no mercy. If you offered $50,000 for the Miata, do you think he would show mercy and volunteer to accept less? Maybe he would give you a free Coke or something, but that's about it.

    You will not get valid information from the dealer. If you buy the car without getting information you can trust from another source, then you are just one more sucker, which is not necessarily bad because I did that several times and paid too much for cars, and God didn't strike me dead for being so ignorant. But if you want to pay a decent price, ignore the info provided by the dealer, and look somewhere else for the facts.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Docward, I will look around and see if I can find out what sort of incentives are available on the 1999 Miata. I believe that they currently have something like $1,500 or .9% - 3.9% on this car, but I better check into this just to make sure. Check here tomorrow for an answer.

    Your Co-Host
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Tenohc, I expect the General Motors information to be updated on our Site tomorrow. Please check the incentives and rebates page (Current Rebates and Incentives) then for the latest Malibu information. As far as the Honda Accord is concerned, to my knowledge there is not any cash, financing, or lease support currently available on this car. Furthermore, I don't expect there to be any support on this car any time in the near future (but no one can predict the future of incentives with 100% accuracy).

    Your Co-Host
  • docwarddocward Member Posts: 5
    Dear car man, thank you, I will appreciate any information.
  • somethingsomething Member Posts: 10
    CarMan....
    I see that the latest GM rebate expiration date is Jan 31. They were advertising Feb 28 last week. Have they changed their program.....AGAIN?

    I'm getting really fed up their inconsistent rebate programs. They are showing no customer consideration but hey....this is GM we're talking about.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Something, GM has changed the expiration date of their programs about four or five times since they first came out. They did recently revise their incentives. The special financing, consumer cash, and dealer cash, and lease support has changed on quite a few of their models. The majority of their 1998 model year programs now expire on January 31st, while I believe that the majority of their 1999 model year programs run through March 31st. Of course, as usual with GM, these dates are subject to change.

    Your Co-Host
  • tenohctenohc Member Posts: 2
    Car Man - I am a little confused. I am looking at a 1999 Chevy Malibu. I understand that Edmund's suggests subtracting dealer incentives and rebates from the invoice price. What about holdback? Should it be subtracted also? Is 3% profit reasonable on this car?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Tenohc, in order to calculate the dealer cost you must subtract both any relevant incentives (Consumer and Dealer) and the holdback from the invoice (plus the invoice prices of any options that you want to add and destination charge). Once you have this figure it is up to you to add a fair profit. It's tough to say what fair is, but on a car like the Malibu 3% to 5% sounds reasonable to me.

    Your Co-Host
  • ssmith1ssmith1 Member Posts: 3
    Today, I was at a Honda dealership negotiating for a '99 4WD EX black CR-V. The dealer gave me a quote of $20,574 + tax.

    Here's where it gets interesting. He told me that he did not have a black CR-V and would be receiving one in Feb. I then specifically asked him if he was getting it direct from the manufacturer. He said yes.

    This is when I brought up "dealer holdback." I stated that since he would be selling the vehicle as soon as it hit the lot, the money that the manufacturer gave him to hold the vehicle for 90 days (dealer holdback) was pure profit and should be given to the buyer. He agreed that the money was pure profit, but he emphatically said that the dealer holdback (and floor assistance) was a non-negotiable item. He even recommended that I try another dealership to see for myself. His main arguement was that it was non-negotiable, but he also let me know that there are cars on the lot that stay more than 90 days and come out of the dealer's pocket.

    Now, I'm thinking to myself, my situation is the perfect example for use of the dealer holdback negotiating tool since the dealer is selling a car the moment he receives it. But the Honda dealer seems intent on not even considering it.

    Please, especialy Edmund's people, let me know whether dealer holdback is actually a practical tool or not. Thank you.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Ssmith1, dealerships hate to talk with consumers about their holdback. The majority of dealers will not dip into this amount to make a deal, especially on a vehicle as popular as the Honda CR-V. However, this item is something to take into consideration when calculating the dealer cost of a particular vehicle.

    Your Co-Host
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Docward, there is currently $1,500 Cash or special .9% to 3.9% financing on the 1999 Miata in their Western region. I imagine that the incentives on this vehicle are very similar in other areas of the country.

    Your Co-Host
  • RoyL11x7RoyL11x7 Member Posts: 1
    Edmund still lists the 99 Windstar Rebate @ $500! It has been $1000 since mid Dec of last year . . . and I thought they prided themselves as being the leader in this category! What else is not up to date??
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Don't try to understand how the car dealer thinks. If you believe he should give you a lower price on a car that he will soon be receiving, then go ahead and offer that price. If he refuses to accept your offer, and you walk out without him coming after you, then you can be sure that offer was too low.

    If you make this same offer at a few dealers and they all, for whatever reason, refuse to accept, then you will probably have to increase your offer if you want the car.

    That's all there is too it. The dealers can sell their cars for whatever price they want. Out goal as buyers is to get our cars for the cheapest price we can. The only way I know to do this is to offer a low price and see if they accept it.
  • ssmith1ssmith1 Member Posts: 3
    Hello again. Thanks for the responses to my 'dealer holdback' question. I have a new question.

    I faxed around to several Honda dealers asking for their best price quotes for a 1999 Honda CR-V EX auto. I received a quote of $20,295 vs. the next best offer of $20,574. Pretty good for no negotiating!

    Now my question is this: When I go back to the dealer who gave me the higher price quote ($20,574), should I tell him to 1) give me a better price, 2) give me it for $20,200, or 3) beat this quote for $20,295?

    Although #1 appears to be the 'book' statement, it seems to beat around the bush. #2 seems too direct and very likely to be knocked down. #3, to me, seems the most logical. The way I see it is that if the dealer wants the sale, he will have to give a better price than the next lowest.

    Also, am I going to need this quote in writing? The dealer just gave me the quote orally over the phone. Also, how long will this oral quote last?

    Thank you very much!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Ssmith1, there is not really any right or wrong way to negotiate a deal on a new car. Obviously some techniques will work better than others, but you have to say what you feel most comfortable saying. Given the three options that you listed, I would probably be inclined to ask the dealer to beat my best quote. There is no statute of limitations that dictates how long a quote over the telephone will last. However, chances are that if you were able to get the salesperson down to that price once, you will probably be able to do so again. Of course that is unless they were pulling your leg from the beginning just to get you into their showroom. I don't think that you need to have any other quotes in writing. If the dealer that you approach about beating your best price doesn't believe you then he's just losing out on your business and probably would not have gone that low any how.

    Your Co-Host
  • mg35mg35 Member Posts: 2
    I ordered a Ford ZX2 and will be taking delvery next week. Does anyone know if the rebate that expired 1/14/99 will be extended or increased? The rebate was $500. I need to know before I pick up the car. Thanks.
  • AirwolfAirwolf Member Posts: 142
    Does Ford not have any current incentives, or were they left off the 1/19/99 list?

    Thanks,
    Ryan
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    If you are willing to pay $20,200 for the car, then I suggest you offer that price and see if the dealer accepts. Make sure he doesn't add on a bunch of things like transportation and a 'dealer processing fee'. Your final price should be $20,200 + tax + tag/title (about $45 here in VA).

    If he doesn't accept, then walk out.
  • raglanraglan Member Posts: 7
    When are the dealers supposed to take away the rebate. Is it before Taxes or after taxes.

    My dealer took my rebate after they calculated the tax. I thought rebates were non-taxable, plus when they advertise vehicles on newspapers, they list the after-rebate price, not the after-tax-rebate price.

    I'm steaming mad about this... there is about a $300 difference between the before tax rebate and the after tax rebate. Can I get them for false advertising?

    Thank you.
    Raglan
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Mg35, the new Ford incentives should be available on our Web Site by sometime tomorrow. In the meantime I would be glad to answer your question. I believe that Ford increased their Customer Cash on the 1999 Escort to $1,500 on all models, including the ZX2.

    Your Co-Host
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Airwolf, just in case you did not read my previous post, Ford's currently has lots of incentives. Their old program expired on January 15th, so it took a little longer to collect the new information for them than for other manufacturers whose programs expired in the beginning of the month. We should have Ford's new program available sometime tomorrow.

    Your Co-Host
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    This is a good question, raglan. Although this may vary from state to state, I believe that usually Consumers must pay tax on Customer Cash but not on Dealer Cash. I doubt that you have a case against them and even if you did in my opinion it would not be worth all of the time, aggravation, and expense to sue someone for only $300.

    Your Co-Host
  • mg35mg35 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks, Car_Man. The $1500 rebate sounds nice. I ordered the ZX2 at invoice price, so I hope I don't have to haggle again for the rebate. I am eligible for whatever the rebate is at time of delivery, right?
  • rich40rich40 Member Posts: 4
    I'm getting ready to purchase a Mazda B4000 pickup up (possibly this weekend). Can anyone confirm the current Mazda incentives. The dealer lists them as $1750 for Cab plus, and $1350 for Cab plus 4DR models. Also do saw in a post above that the current Ford incentives will be listed shortly. Will those be listed by the weekend?
    Thanks
  • markschmarksch Member Posts: 1
    Volkswagen is offering incentives on just about everything except the Passat. Any ideas why?

    Thanks
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