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Saw a black one on ebay auto 15k miles buy it now for 17k. No bids yet. Drove through florence many times. There a bunch of used car lots along the road to myrtle beach.
Thoughts like, the high miles? The non-CPO? The iffy resale value, & reliability, of saabs? If it was really low miles, & plenty of warranty left, well that would be better at least....
Jay/Woody, I appreciate your thoughts and agree with you. Quite a few of the others I've seen are off-lease cars and I think they had a 27 month lease special in the summer of 07. So, if this is one of those, then it has at least 18 months and 12,000 miles of warranty left. This thing stickered for upper-30s when new, so it's already taken a large depreciation hit. If I was planning on keeping it about 2 years and driving about 5k miles per year, it couldn't cost me too much, could it? The comparable CPO ones I've seen have asking prices at least $5k higher.
If I was planning on keeping it about 2 years and driving about 5k miles per year, it couldn't cost me too much, could it?
I'd probably search ebay to see what 4 y.o. saab converts w/no warranty are going for. I'll guess 1/3 more depreciation in 2 yrs., & I can almost hear what dealers are going to say about trading in a used saab w/no warranty. Which is not to say, to not buy one if it's what you really want. Just seems like it's kind of a dying brand.....
I thought the point of this board was "What can I expect on a trade when I trade for a new car?" I didn't think the point was "This dealer has had this 20xx whatever for a couple of months...what do you think he paid for it so I can get it for that?"
I'm not in the car business; but, why does everyone hate the thought of a car dealer making money? Isn't every business in business to make money? Do you care what Wal-Mart paid for paper towels or LCD TVs? Pay what they want, come to a reasonable agreement or move on. Why does it have to be a battle?
My view is the price is much higher on a car than on paper towels or an LCD TV. And those are USUALLY, maintenance free items. You buy the LCD, and if luck is on your side, 10 years from now, it's still working.
Cars are EXPENSES. Sure, you get a certain amount of enjoyment out of them, but in the end, they just keep costing you more money.
Unlike a house (which is also an expense) cars don't appreciate in value.
Essentially, if you over pay for a car when you buy it, you will likely never get back what you overpaid.
If you go to a used car lot and see a car for $25K, and end up paying $25K and are happy with that, then great. You may have paid $3-5K more than the car is worth...but if you plan on keeping it and don't care about the difference, then fine.
But if you would have to sell that car in 6 months, and saw that you would only get $20K for it, you wouldn't be very happy, would you? You might have a car worth $20K but a loan that's got $24K left to pay.
That's why people are so interested in buying a car for what it is worth (or as close to it as possible).
I have no problem with them making money. But I want to have as much information as possible when negotiating. Plus I find it helpful to know what the current trade value is on a vehicle I'm considering because then I can estimate what the car may be worth in a couple years when I'm looking for something else. Plus it appears 4Runners are priced through the roof and not moving so I'm miffed by the pricing.
Some thoughts: Dealerships always make money on a transaction. If you think you've put one over on the dealer, you're naive.
Dealers often create the contentious environment with their sleazy tactics and insulting comments to customers, i.e. "We're not making any money on this car." I don't have to go into detail here. You can read about them all over the Internet.
This forum is valuable because you get realistic pricing for both the trade and the new car. The information you get helps to moderate expectations and avoid a battle when you get to the dealership. I would bet that one of the biggest issues leading to arguments between salespeople and customers is the difference between the auction prices used by dealers to figure trade-in values and the inflated trade-in prices that consumers find on Edmunds TMV, KBB and other sites.
I have yet to negotiate the price of paper towels in Wal-Mart, so I don't think you can't compare that to car buying (although you can negotiate the price of a TV in many electronics stores). Both dealers and consumers have made purchasing an automobile something of a sport in America. Back and forth negotiation is the American Way. Saturn tried fixed pricing and look where it got them.
Buying cars is not the same as buying paper towels. Far more emotions involved. Bigger commitment. Self image and status. Getting people to buy anything more than basic transportation requires complex tactics that goes back to the old horsetrader days. Check the teeth or kick the tires --- same old same old. Let's make a deal !! " If you're riding to El Paso every week you should buy young Whirlaway over there. But he will cost you $100 and another $10 for that standard used saddle. The bridle set will cost you extra. Now if you just want to ride around town then I can sell you Old Hank for $50 and I'll throw in a brand new saddle/bridle with silver trim to help you impress all the ladies. Need your answer now though -- have another buyer coming in this afternoon."
Jewelers are as bad as car salesmen. Everything 75% off through monday. Selling wholesale to the public. Go to the diamond district in nyc and you can buy below cost.
I'm not in the car business; but, why does everyone hate the thought of a car dealer making money?
They don't hate the thought of the dealership making money, they just want them to make money on the other guy. If the dealer will sell at invoice minus holdback, minus another $500 for whatever... why not try to get it. The dealership will try to get the most $$$ for a new or used car, the consumer should try to get it for the least $... that's fair.
2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
Actually, I should have said that the jewelry business uses similar sales tactics as car dealers do. The strategy is born out of necessity because there can be so much excitement in buying. I have the utmost respect for people who work on the frontlines selling to the public. Anyone who has the guts to rely solely on their ability to sell as a means to put food on the table deserves a lot of credit in my book. Almost to a person, everyone whom I've had contact with in the automobile sales business has been respectful and honest. Behind all the screamer ads and deal-a-thons there are regular folks trying to make a living. I'd never judge an entire work force by the actions of a few bad apples. I don't know you Irquy44, so you really don't know what I think of you and neither do I. It doesn't make much sense to get personal on these forums anyway. Just priced and bought a new furnace and a/c after multiple bids. The expeience is right there with buying a car except the systems are harder to compare. Didn't even take the lowest bid -- went with the company where the owner answers the phone.
And that was a good reason for ongoing service - sometimes when you go with the low bidder you get just that. Nothing personal but my pride has a problem with sweeping demeaning statements - I am sure you did not mean it the way it came across.
Time for a trade...for another Chevy, albeit, uh, sportier.
Location: Southern DE, beach territory Year/Make/Model: 2008 Chevy Malibu 2LT Body Style: 4-door sedan Engine: 2.4 Liter, 4-cyl, 4-speed automatic Driveline: FWD Mileage: 22,100 Color: Dark Gray Metallic/Titanium (light gray) UltraLux suede/vinyl Major Options: Power Sunroof, Premium Mats, Bodyside molding; 2LT standards of 17" aluminum wheels, heated seats, remote start, etc. Condition: No dents, no scratches, just 22k miles and the usual light front end pin chips Tires - Factory original Hankooks, still about 3/4 tread Brakes - Factory original, 1/2-3/4 pads at least Maintenance - 3k oil changes, tire rotations every other
All original, never damaged, well maintained with doubled floor mats, etc. Edmunds trade says $14,800, checked out current selling prices of the same vehicle (hard to find a match with as low of miles & not a rental)...what to really expect, at another Chevy dealer in DE-PA-NJ-MD?
Well, I've posted it last year (stupid me LOL). Here's the condition now
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Year/Make/Model: 2009/Toyota/Corolla XRS (bought in Oct 2008) Body Style: 4dr Engine: 2.4L I-4, Automatic 5-speed Driveline: FWD Mileage: 14000km Color: Silver/black cloth Major Options: 17" alloys, sunroof Condition: Interior: a hairline scratch on driver's side door panel. Others are simply like new (original mat is stored and not used. I've replaced it with those from Canadian Tire) Exterior: rear-bumper scratch, 1 alloy wheel scratch, passenger side door ding. Tires - 85% left Brakes - 85% left Maintenance - every 5000km oil change. Pollen filter changed on Oct 2009 Other: No claims, ECP (extended warranty) 3 years left
I know dealers always make money--they wouldn't sign the deal if they weren't happy with what they're getting out of it.
Also (off topic, as well) I contend Saturn died because they moved away from the reason they started up and just became another division of GM. I loved the haggle free shopping experience. I bought 4 Saturns between 1995 and 2005; but, in 2008 when I was in the market for a new car, I didn't even consider Saturn as they were not the company I used to buy from any longer.
I wouldn't even begin to understand how to negotiate for jewelry because individual pieces and stones are often different. Car buying is totally different because most vehicles are commodities that can be priced and bought anywhere. Forums like this and a host of other internet resources have made car buying much more transparent. It's certainly been good for the consumer. I also think it's forced dealerships to be more ethical because it's a lot harder for them to lie to the customer without getting caught. The bad news is that, with all the additional information available on buying a car (incentives, rebates, holdbacks, invoice price, value of trade-in, etc.) it can make the negotiation more contentious because many buyers aren't willing to settle for the first price they're offered.
As I said earlier (and to try and stay on topic), this forum is extremely helpful because it gives you a realistic trade-in price as you head into negotiations so you won't necessarily feel lowballed when the salesperson discusses auction prices. Any time you can eliminate misunderstandings between customer and salesperson, the transaction is bound to go smoother.
Oh, yeah, it hurts it, all right. The usual rule of thumb is that if a car isn't already at the low end -- the $500-$1000 range, and it's the sort of thing you have to look up in a book -- well, you can take that book value and cut it in half. If it's yours and you're trying to sell it, you can try selling to a private party, and hope like heck that the person who buys it doesn't need bank financing, because the bank will probably tell the customer the truth about its value. On the other hand, if you're buying, and the car runs well and doesn't pull -- well, you could have a bargain on your hands.
I realize that but many people have tried to trade savage titles on vehicles tht looked just a tad better than the Charger. All it needs is a litle paintless dent repair - don't you think?
....and probably not the right place to post, but just saw a new Chevy Cobalt coupe, with hubcaps and crank windows, no sunroof, on 'The Price is Right' (I'm unemployed, cut me some slack), with a retail price was $18724. Wow. I know they don't actually sell for that, but still.....I can think of about 20 (probably more if pressed) new cars I'd love more, at that price.
I was curious, so I checked out the pricing here on Edmunds. I could come within a few bucks of that price by selecting the lowest trim with manual windows (LS) and adding EVERY option, including special metallic red paint, and leaving off the block heater.
Chevy probably gave them that car cause ain't nobody going to buy it. I mean, who pays for special paint, a spoiler, and protection package on a car with no power windows?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It was Jefferson's car that Spicoli wrecked--but Spicoli assured everyone that he could fix it because his old man is a TV repair man and has a righteous set of tools.
I think that was the exact specs of the car on TPIR....and it was painted this funky '80s Laura Ashley-ish light teal with the insta-stain light tan cloth.
This is in Fairfax VA. 79,000 miles, silver exterior with black leather interior. No nav, no heated seats, Sunroof (Standard I assume).
The exterior has small chips and scratches. Nothing that bothers me. The Interior wear on the leather and plastic is evenly worn and looks pretty good for the age. I am happy with it.
I keep reading how these cars are underpowered compared to competition but it seemed powerful enough for me. Seats are, as always, the best for my back and comfort. It drive pretty solid and accelerated confidently when I needed it on the test drive.
They are asking the exact Edmunds certified price, $12356, but it is not Volvo certified. The dealer is giving a 12 month warranty on what I assume are the usual catastrophic failures. Free carfax is clean.
I think the price is high but while I have posted here before and never moved on anything this is for real. I am buying something in the next 1-4 weeks. Any recommendations?
Any recommendations? Yeah. Spend $22 or so on a brand-new Subaru and call it good. If money's not tight, why buy a 6-year-old car? If it is, you may not be able to withstand the maintenace and repair issues that are likely to crop up at some point.
The only time a car like that makes sense if it's an 'extra', or if you have enough money to buy it for cash and enough credit to move into something else if necessary, or if you're like me and have a 2-mile commute... then you can bike or walk to work for awhile if something bad happens.
Of course it's your money, but I don't see paying four figures for a car that old.
I think you've gotten some wise advice on here already, but I'll still chime in. Over the years, I've had a chance to own a number of European luxury or near-luxury brands, either from new or low-mileage certified. Once these cars start to approach 80K, you'll begin to pay through the nose for repairs, even at independent shops. For example, your Volvo has a timing belt. Do you know if it's ever been changed? If not, do you know what it costs to replace?
I'm only suggesting that before you go out and buy this car, do some more homework. Visit a Volvo forum and ask a lot of questions. And if your budget is limited to around 12K, IMHO you'd be much better off considering a lightly used Honda Accord, Subaru or something else in that range. If you want to buy a Volvo with 79K miles, you need a reserve fund for repairs. Good luck on your decision.
FWIW, my mother's 2002 S80 has been very dependable (knock on wood), but also doesn't get driven much.
If he's going to put 30,000 miles a year on it, yeah, an Accord or Legacy would probably be a better choice. If not, he's getting a much nicer car (leather seats, wood trim, etc.) than a $20,000 new Accord or Legacy, and has $10,000 leftover to spend on maintenance and repairs.
Comments
2007 Saab 9-3 convertible 2.0T
6 speed manual
Only option appears to be cold weather package
38,000 miles
Silver ext./Grey int.
I haven't seen it in person, but it looks to be in good condition from the pictures. I don't think it's CPO.
Dealer is asking $17,000. Thoughts?
Drove through florence many times. There a bunch of used car lots along the road to myrtle beach.
I'd probably search ebay to see what 4 y.o. saab converts w/no warranty are going for. I'll guess 1/3 more depreciation in 2 yrs., & I can almost hear what dealers are going to say about trading in a used saab w/no warranty. Which is not to say, to not buy one if it's what you really want. Just seems like it's kind of a dying brand.....
Is it an anniversary edition? They had the nicer Aero style seats, wheels and spoiler but without the stupid turbo V6.
2006 4Runner SR5 4x4 46k miles, Toyota Certified
4.0L, Auto
Dark Gray/Gray
Good shape, was a lease vehicle, clean carfax.
Dealer has had it since July.
I'm not in the car business; but, why does everyone hate the thought of a car dealer making money? Isn't every business in business to make money? Do you care what Wal-Mart paid for paper towels or LCD TVs? Pay what they want, come to a reasonable agreement or move on. Why does it have to be a battle?
Thanks for the vent.
An educated consumer...
Cars are EXPENSES. Sure, you get a certain amount of enjoyment out of them, but in the end, they just keep costing you more money.
Unlike a house (which is also an expense) cars don't appreciate in value.
Essentially, if you over pay for a car when you buy it, you will likely never get back what you overpaid.
If you go to a used car lot and see a car for $25K, and end up paying $25K and are happy with that, then great. You may have paid $3-5K more than the car is worth...but if you plan on keeping it and don't care about the difference, then fine.
But if you would have to sell that car in 6 months, and saw that you would only get $20K for it, you wouldn't be very happy, would you? You might have a car worth $20K but a loan that's got $24K left to pay.
That's why people are so interested in buying a car for what it is worth (or as close to it as possible).
Dealerships always make money on a transaction. If you think you've put one over on the dealer, you're naive.
Dealers often create the contentious environment with their sleazy tactics and insulting comments to customers, i.e. "We're not making any money on this car." I don't have to go into detail here. You can read about them all over the Internet.
This forum is valuable because you get realistic pricing for both the trade and the new car. The information you get helps to moderate expectations and avoid a battle when you get to the dealership. I would bet that one of the biggest issues leading to arguments between salespeople and customers is the difference between the auction prices used by dealers to figure trade-in values and the inflated trade-in prices that consumers find on Edmunds TMV, KBB and other sites.
I have yet to negotiate the price of paper towels in Wal-Mart, so I don't think you can't compare that to car buying (although you can negotiate the price of a TV in many electronics stores). Both dealers and consumers have made purchasing an automobile something of a sport in America. Back and forth negotiation is the American Way. Saturn tried fixed pricing and look where it got them.
Prices vary by brand, region, quantity, and sheet size.
They have feelings. Easy on paper towels, please.
They don't hate the thought of the dealership making money, they just want them to make money on the other guy. If the dealer will sell at invoice minus holdback, minus another $500 for whatever... why not try to get it. The dealership will try to get the most $$$ for a new or used car, the consumer should try to get it for the least $... that's fair.
Now I know what you think of me.
Just priced and bought a new furnace and a/c after multiple bids. The expeience is right there with buying a car except the systems are harder to compare. Didn't even take the lowest bid -- went with the company where the owner answers the phone.
Nothing personal but my pride has a problem with sweeping demeaning statements - I am sure you did not mean it the way it came across.
Location: Southern DE, beach territory
Year/Make/Model: 2008 Chevy Malibu 2LT
Body Style: 4-door sedan
Engine: 2.4 Liter, 4-cyl, 4-speed automatic
Driveline: FWD
Mileage: 22,100
Color: Dark Gray Metallic/Titanium (light gray) UltraLux suede/vinyl
Major Options: Power Sunroof, Premium Mats, Bodyside molding; 2LT standards of 17" aluminum wheels, heated seats, remote start, etc.
Condition: No dents, no scratches, just 22k miles and the usual light front end pin chips
Tires - Factory original Hankooks, still about 3/4 tread
Brakes - Factory original, 1/2-3/4 pads at least
Maintenance - 3k oil changes, tire rotations every other
All original, never damaged, well maintained with doubled floor mats, etc. Edmunds trade says $14,800, checked out current selling prices of the same vehicle (hard to find a match with as low of miles & not a rental)...what to really expect, at another Chevy dealer in DE-PA-NJ-MD?
Here's the condition now
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Year/Make/Model: 2009/Toyota/Corolla XRS (bought in Oct 2008)
Body Style: 4dr
Engine: 2.4L I-4, Automatic 5-speed
Driveline: FWD
Mileage: 14000km
Color: Silver/black cloth
Major Options: 17" alloys, sunroof
Condition:
Interior: a hairline scratch on driver's side door panel. Others are simply like new (original mat is stored and not used. I've replaced it with those from Canadian Tire)
Exterior: rear-bumper scratch, 1 alloy wheel scratch, passenger side door ding.
Tires - 85% left
Brakes - 85% left
Maintenance - every 5000km oil change. Pollen filter changed on Oct 2009
Other: No claims, ECP (extended warranty) 3 years left
Also (off topic, as well) I contend Saturn died because they moved away from the reason they started up and just became another division of GM. I loved the haggle free shopping experience. I bought 4 Saturns between 1995 and 2005; but, in 2008 when I was in the market for a new car, I didn't even consider Saturn as they were not the company I used to buy from any longer.
As I said earlier (and to try and stay on topic), this forum is extremely helpful because it gives you a realistic trade-in price as you head into negotiations so you won't necessarily feel lowballed when the salesperson discusses auction prices. Any time you can eliminate misunderstandings between customer and salesperson, the transaction is bound to go smoother.
Try 385.00 ... or about its scrap value, whichever is lower.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
i will keep my posts here straight forward from now on.
Name that movie. Bonus for the character as well.
Chevy probably gave them that car cause ain't nobody going to buy it. I mean, who pays for special paint, a spoiler, and protection package on a car with no power windows?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The exterior has small chips and scratches. Nothing that bothers me. The Interior wear on the leather and plastic is evenly worn and looks pretty good for the age. I am happy with it.
I keep reading how these cars are underpowered compared to competition but it seemed powerful enough for me. Seats are, as always, the best for my back and comfort. It drive pretty solid and accelerated confidently when I needed it on the test drive.
They are asking the exact Edmunds certified price, $12356, but it is not Volvo certified. The dealer is giving a 12 month warranty on what I assume are the usual catastrophic failures. Free carfax is clean.
I think the price is high but while I have posted here before and never moved on anything this is for real. I am buying something in the next 1-4 weeks. Any recommendations?
Jeff Spicoli: Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it
I have a 2006 S80 AWD with heated seats and nav that I am probably selling certified for $20,500 on monday and it has 45,000 miles on it.
Yeah.
Spend $22 or so on a brand-new Subaru and call it good.
If money's not tight, why buy a 6-year-old car?
If it is, you may not be able to withstand the maintenace and repair issues that are likely to crop up at some point.
The only time a car like that makes sense if it's an 'extra', or if you have enough money to buy it for cash and enough credit to move into something else if necessary, or if you're like me and have a 2-mile commute... then you can bike or walk to work for awhile if something bad happens.
Of course it's your money, but I don't see paying four figures for a car that old.
Cheers,
-Mathias
I'm only suggesting that before you go out and buy this car, do some more homework. Visit a Volvo forum and ask a lot of questions. And if your budget is limited to around 12K, IMHO you'd be much better off considering a lightly used Honda Accord, Subaru or something else in that range. If you want to buy a Volvo with 79K miles, you need a reserve fund for repairs. Good luck on your decision.
To the other responders, did you guys every consider the fact that maybe he's a mechanic who specializes in volvos? :P
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If he's going to put 30,000 miles a year on it, yeah, an Accord or Legacy would probably be a better choice. If not, he's getting a much nicer car (leather seats, wood trim, etc.) than a $20,000 new Accord or Legacy, and has $10,000 leftover to spend on maintenance and repairs.
Parts are expensive as well.