Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

graphicguy · June 2005

I'd say on a 'rolla LE with automatic tranny and sunroof only....$15,700-$16,000 would get the deal done.

Regarding the post about having buyers remorse after only driving the new car 10 miles, there's no "grace period" once you drive the car from the dealer's facility. You can leave it at the dealership as long as you want. It's still your car. Corollas are good cars. Take it home and drive it for the next 100,000+ miles. You should get many good years out of it.

rroyce10 · June 2005

.. ** I was driving home and got into an argument w/ my sig other and we decided on taking the car back** ...

The car is fine ... maybe you need a new "sig other" ...

Signed the papers and you drove the car home -- your an owner ..

Terry.

john500 · June 2005

I agree with the previous posts on the price. It should be in the $ 15-16 range, but use Edmunds and find the actual price with the options on the car. It is a given that the dealer will try to re-negotiate. You must have:
1. A clear unwaivering value that you want for your trade-in, as the dealer will pretend to first give you an excellent deal on the car (say $13,000) and then undercut you severely on the trade-in. Typically, Edmunds overestimates the value and Kelleys blue book is about what a dealer will agree to. Use Edmunds as a target and Kelleys as an absolute minimum with the parameters of your car.
2. The key is the price differential that you actually pay and what percent interest is agreed to. Go to a bank or use a loan calculator and find out your payments for the price differential as this is another area that dealers like to sneak in costs. I always pay cash to avoid this.

Always be prepared to walk away if the price isn't what you want.

mpass · June 2005

Any thoughts out there on the wisdom (or lack thereof) of leasing a 2004 CPO Acura TL? I know Honda/Acura give the same subsidized lease rates on CPOs as on new cars so I don't think the money factor is the issue. It seems like not a bad idea but something tells me I may be wrong?

Comments?

mikefm58 · June 2005

" I returned the car and left it at the dealership "

Good advice from the others.

Run, don't walk, back to the dealer and get the car......NOW!!!!

rroyce10 · June 2005

.. **but something tells me I may be wrong?** .....

Just like my great grand Daddy used to say: "your first thought is always your best .."

IF ~ your going to lease, then leasing a new vehicle is the only way to go ... the rates are low and the residuals are right .. don't let a few bucks make a difference between a good and a bad idea ....

Terry.

exb0 · June 2005

I own a 04 TL. The car is piece of junk. Its first model year and it has issues: rattles, vibration, poor quality leather etc

Stay away from this car, there is a reason somebody trade it in so soon.

alfox · June 2005

Are they all that way?...

prodigalsunbrn · June 2005

"So, if he go's after her in court for that amount she will either have to lie under oath to the judge or admit she committed perjury by falsifying a notarized document. "

True...but so will he. What're the odds that the Judge just says "You're both a bunch a lyin' weasels, git outa my courtroom." I dunno, I'd eat 2K just to keep myself from the embarassment of being proved a liar in public.

divarp · June 2005

Can they sell the car to me otherwise? (I am not a minor)

Kirstie_H · June 2005

I have actually been in this situation - I was teaching a foreign person to drive (who didn't learn in his native country). He had enough money, and after awhile he wanted his own vehicle. So, he went to the dealership and did all of the negotiating, but when it came time to pick up, I had to be there to ride with him to drive it away (as required with a permit). This was in Missouri, so laws may vary - but I don't think there's a law that says you have to be a licensed driver to purchase, just to drive it away.

danf1 · June 2005

The most important thing is having insurance. I don't care if you can drive. Neither does the state that I'm in, but if you don't have insurance you can't buy.

kurtamaxxguy · June 2005

Via first hand experience with 4 mfrs and their "first" year babies (two oriental, two USA):
first year cars are always prone to problems, no matter who builds it. Mfrs try to get kinks out, but cars are very complex and transition from pilot to full production always takes shakedown time.
Most companies won't retrofit upgrades (read fine print in warranty!).

Best to wait at least 6 months or preferably a year before grabbing that "new" model.

kyfdx · June 2005

I agree partly about insurance.. If you are borrowing money on the car, then the bank will want proof of insurance before you take the car off the lot...

And, where I live, you have to have proof of insurance to permanently register the car....

But, if you are paying with a check/cash, etc.. I don't think the dealers here have any requirement to make sure that you are insured.... though, it is certainly illegal to operate the car without it..

regards,
kyfdx

graphicguy · June 2005

ky....I think in OH, you have to have proof of insurance to buy a car. Why else would they ask for it in the F&I office?

That said, I'm not well versed in Ohio DMV regs, either.

thenebean · June 2005

in CT, you have to have proof of insurance to register the car, and that is the only way you are getting it off our lot (registered) unless you buy an as-is used junkie junk in which we deliver to your house, and you do what you need to do (though i still think we need proof of insurance to do that even)

-thene

kyfdx · June 2005

I think in Ohio, it is the bank that wants the proof of insurance.. that is why you get the question in the F&I office..

But, now that I think about it, I paid cash (check) in Chillicothe, and they asked for it, as well...

I know it is the law.. that you have to have it.. I'm just not sure the dealers have any obligation to verify it, other than to the finance company..

Of course, if the dealer is the one registering the car for you, they would have to have it... and, most likely all dealers require it, just to cover their butts...

I'm starting to think it is going to be pretty hard to buy a car with no license..

danf1 · June 2005

We require insurance in Pa, and it is not just to cover our but. If the state would audit us and we could not show proof of insurance, we would get fined. If there are multiple occurances, we lose the priveledge of performing title work.

Once again, I don't require a drivers license, just some form of government issued photo ID. I've sold a few cars to people using passports as ID. I can't let you drive off of the lot, but you can buy the car.

imidazol97 · June 2005

Insurance is needed for the license registration--either insurance or proof of financial ability to pay damages.

jmarino · June 2005

Im looking at a 2005 Tahoe LT loaded MSRP $49,350. GM Employee procing brings it to$ 38,300. I am trading i na 2003 Durango SXT with 20,500 miles . The yhave offered me $14,000 in trade and I owe $16,270 on it. They came up with a Smart Buy at $631.00 no money down and all taxes , fees included in payment. This is a 48 month deal and 48,000 miles. IS this a good deal and do I need gap insurance for a smart buy ? Please help Im going to make a decision tomorrow.

vstar · June 2005

Is the X paln the best price you can get without being a Ford employee? Will they nego. even lower than the X plan?

mirth · June 2005

The X Plan is the best "plan" that a non-employee can get, unless you have a sister/brother/parent that's a Ford employee in which case they can get you the A Plan.

X Plan is like 1-2% below invoice depending on the car. There are probably some models where you might be able to do better, but in general it's pretty good and there's no need to negotiate.

graphicguy · June 2005

ky....even when I've paid cash for a car, they've wanted proof of insurance. That doesn't neccessarily mean it's a law, but sounds like they at least are covereing the dealer for any liability if you should have an accident in front of the dealer's store as you're driving away from the purchase.

But, I agree....no license, no insurance....almost impossible to buy a car.

I suppose if you could give someone (licensed driver) the cash to buy a car for you, and then have them drive it to your home and drop it off, there isn't any law that states you couldn't then buy it from that person and leave it parked. But, that's an awful lot of hassle to buy something you can't even use and let it sit.

kyfdx · June 2005

Kind of an exercise in semantics... I don't see how it matters.. You'll need a license and insurance at some point... I think that would be the place to start..

boomchek · June 2005

in British Columbia, Canada you need to be of legal age (19) to buy a car. Isn't that a requirement anywhere? You have to be an adult to make a contract you're signing legal

divarp · June 2005

I am a little confused. The insurance company is going to want to know what car it is I am getting insured. Isn't it a catch 22 situation? How am I to get the car if I cannot get it without insurance and I can't get the insurance without the car?

gordonfan24 · June 2005

I have a question. Does anyone know how long a used car dealer has to give the person buying the car a title? I was told they had to send it off and get the title back. Well, after my temporary tag expired 30 days later...I called them and told them I needed the title NOW. They said it was lost in the mail and they were sending off for a lost title. Now here it is 2 weeks later and they called me Friday and told me they would have the title today (june 20) I went by there after work and surprise, surprise...no one was there. I did get a call from them last night but I still would like to know if what they did about the car title is illegal. Is there anything I can do about this? Is this illegal? Please, I need some advice and help on this.

Thanks,
:confuse: ">

thenebean · June 2005

i dont know about arkansas, but in CT when someone buys a used car cash, we hold onto the title, and send it in to the DMV and then they process it, print a new one, then send it out... probably takes anywhere from 60-90 days. again, i dont know how arkansas does it, but maybe its similar?

-thene

danf1 · June 2005

Your agent should be able to provide you with a binder if you give them the VIN # to the car that you will be purchasing. Or you can call Geico or Progresive while you are at the dealership, and they can give you a policy on the spot and fax a card to the dealership.

stickguy · June 2005

if you have an existing policy, they automatically cover the new car for a period of time (although I think you might only get what you have, such as collision). In that case, you can call, from the dealership (although the sales person often does it) to have the car added. That also verifies an active policy.

I never heard of buying without a policy though, but I guess it can be done. Probably in some states the daler can even provide temp. coverage?

alfox · June 2005

a collector could buy a car cash and title it without registration, and have a truck pick it up for delivery wherever he wanted, without insuring it. Not every car must be registerred and insured. The truck's insurance would cover during transport, and the property insurance where the car is stored would cover it after drop-off. If the property was not insured, the owner would simply be out the value of the car if it were destroyed. That's a pretty arcane set of circumstances though.

In MA like most states if you want to drive the car on public roads it must be insured, or bond posted equal to the state's mandatory policy limits. End of story.

wdaveo1 · June 2005

Specifically with regard to trade value and new car price:

Do the dealers make their offers 'assuming' they will be challenged?

Should I negotiate the trade value, the car price, or both?

The dealer has offered me $10K trade for my '00 Odyssey EX, and 3% over invoice for a new '05 CR-V. The trade is a bit low, but fair, but the car price is too high (I believe it should be 1% above invoice or less).

I have gotten a few more quotes from dealers within 100 miles and they are up to $800 less than the local dealer's quote for the CR-V (the 3% over). I would like to buy locally, but $800 is a big difference. On the other hand, I really don't know what the other dealers would give me for a trade. I don't really want to drive all over the state to get my trade evaluated.

What is my best course of action so as to not insult the dealer? I would like to buy locally, if possible, and just want a fair price for both of us.

Thank you,

Dawn

toyotaken · June 2005

Dawn,

If you like your local dealer and they are fair dealing with, I'd level with them and tell them that you'd prefer to do business with them, but it isn't worth an extra $800 to do so. Ask them to match the purchase option you have from the other dealers and in all liklihood, they will match it rather than lose your business. Nothing to lose other than them saying no and then you can do business elsewhere if they decide not to take your offer.

Ken

wdaveo1 · June 2005

Thank you, Ken.

The salesman actually told me that if I wait until the end of the month (which would be next week) I may get a better deal because of the quotas they need to meet.

Is this true, and should I wait until Monday or so, then approach them with my offer?

Dawn

toyotaken · June 2005

Each dealer is different, but some do offer better deals at the end of the month rather than early, but if they are truly upfront with you, they should take an offer at any time of the month as long as it is reasonable. You may just want to go over your sales-consultant's head and call to speak with the sales manager and make your offer to him directly and see what he says.

Ken

mikefm58 · June 2005

Is there a Carmax in your area? You can take your vehicle there and they'll give you an offer for it. It would probably be close to auction price, but it will give you a good idea. Remember to account for the sales tax issue when comparing the Carmax price versus the trade-in amount.

sasha3372 · June 2005

Is it possible to negotiate further than the Saab Employee Price - $2500 cash rebate (purchase)?

I've been quoted by 2 different dealers, one in Boston, and other in South Florida for 93 Linear:
Sale price $24,416 w/auto trans and the metallic paint which is supposed to include the (1) Employee discount which I was quoted to be $26,894 (MSRP $28,920), and less (2) $2500 incentive (purchase).

Questions: (2) Has anyone been able to negotiate out of the $500 extra for the metallic paint? (3) One of the dealers in FL also is trying to charge $550 for a "Dealer Service Fee", which is highly inflated. How far down have people been able to negotiate to a "fair" price?

(4) Any more insights into the greater incentives GM will have for Saab? These 2 dealers are saying they are running low on inventory for 2005 already.

thenebean · June 2005

the GM employee discount is a ridiculous price, and you still want to negotiate that? i also love that you are looking to negotiate an even LOWER price than the lowest you can possibly get and call it "fair"

not to be a pain, and i dont mean to sound angry, but it's very frustrating that people are always looking to take take take, and if the other side tries it, we're ripping them off...

just very frustrated that people think this way...

-thene

john500 · June 2005

I see. The previous 50 years of GM dealerships ripping off customers with sub-service quality, tacking on B.S. fees, adding "adjusted market value" fees for desired cars, trying to find any way possible out of clearly warranted work and a whole long list of other annoyances that has driven buyers to primarily foreign vehicles is fair? Go to the African plains and see if an zebra with a broken leg gets fair treatment. The laws of nature say that when someone or something is down, beat it or eat it. GM put out the invitation by displaying their fiscal broken leg.

ddelise · June 2005

Well, why not start by offering $0, and slowly work up from there?

You never know, they may be so beaten down that they might take something like $700 or so for the car...

719b · June 2005

i can understand the frustration salesmen have when a buyer tries to take every dollar off the table, but you have to understand that the dealer has all the advantages. he knows in advance what he can sell the car for and still make a fair profit... the buyer doesn't have this information. the only way the buyer will know what you consider a fair offer is if he attempts to negotiate.
plus you can say no if you don't like the offer.
if you let the buyer "take take take" and still sell him the car, you have no right to complain.

graphicguy · June 2005

I agree with toyotaken....level with the dealer. Tell them you prefer to do business with them, but can't justify it if they are so far out of the ballpark pricewise.

Personally, I buy a car/truck when it suits me. My personal belief is the dealer paid the same for the car/truck. So, whether they sell it at the beginning of the month, the middle of the month, or the end of the month, they still paid the same for the car.

You might be able to squeeze a couple of extra bucks out of the dealer the last weekend or day of the month, but is it worth it? The downside has always been that the end of the month always seems to be the exact time the dealer has the least selection of what I want.

Long and short of it, if I find something I like, I don't wait 'till the time I maybe/might/perhaps get an extra $50-$100 off, but would settle for limited stock to choose from.

thenebean · June 2005

i dont let the buyer take take take...and people do know what we own the car for (you just dont believe it) invoice is really invoice. holdback is money to help pay for floorplanning costs, and is by no means a profit margin. we can sit here and play the "oh for the last 50 years dealers ripped us off so its our turn" card...but things are very different now. i dont mean to vent, like i said, but its frustrating when you find yourself on this side, and you've worked hard to make people like and trust you, to hear such things. no need to rip me apart, and i didn't mean for this to bring up a whole slew of "your fault, our fault" arguments. i am just commenting on how it seems sometimes that people don't know where to stop - on both sides of the fence...

-thene

alfox · June 2005

If you like the car, do your homework and make an offer, bottom line price including all dealer fees and incentives. If the dealer doesn't like it, they will say no. Then you, the buyer, has a decision to make - up the offer, listen to the dealer's counter offer, or walk.

The dealer's side is the same: listen to the customer's offer, and take it, counter it or leave it.

If you get too caught up in what someone else may have paid, or what the dealer's profits are, you might as well keep driving your beater. You also have to accept that the dealer has no control over taxes and licensing fees, and cannot legally waive them. YOU, the buyetr, has to take them into account when you decide what you can afford to spend. Just offer what you want to pay and see what the seller says. End of story. No angst is required.

719b · June 2005

i do believe that invoice is what you own the car for.
what is confusing to a buyer is special incentives a dealer receives if he sells x amount of cars within a certain time frame or manufacturer to dealer cash for selling certain models. this is information the buyer may not have access to.
i realize there are many reasons why a dealer will sell a car at or below invoice, such as a car that's been on the lot for too long. i suspect that more cars are sold below invoice to meet incentive quotas than because the car is on the lot too long.
another reason why you'll find so many buyers trying to "take take take" is for bragging rights to his friends. it's human nature to feel you got a better deal than the next guy.
contrary to what most pros think, i don't believe a person willing to spend $25,000 or more for a car, is really worrying about the last $100 on the table. i believe it's for his peace of mind to feel he did well in his purchase.
it's all about being able to tell his friends how shrewd he is. you think?

thenebean · June 2005

agreed.

i think too many people get caught up in "gee this guy paid $xxxxx.xx for that car, i gotta beat him!" kind of deal. you can afford xxx per month, thats what you look to spend. you know the general price of the car, what you qualify for interest rates, what rebates/incentives are out there, and you go in and say "i would like this car here, with this much down, at this much per month" - if they can do it, great, if not move on.

too often people try to negotiate sales tax, and like you said alfox, there's nothing we can do about that. someone else said in another forum "well, you can adjust the price to meet our needs" - well, there's only so far we can go on price.

another thing, is that sometimes we have to sell cars for losers not because we want to, but because other dealers in our area (large volume dealers) hand cars away (while treating people crummy) and people flock to buy from there. we have no choice but to deal as low as we do because people shop price - period.

its not just consumers (and don't think we all think it is!) but the other competitors we deal with too!

its just a tough tough business sometimes...

-thene :shades:

jasmith52 · June 2005

Maybe nobody has noticed what really happened when the GM employee discount price was offered to the public. Sure GM lets the cars go at GM employee prices (GMS price) but they have cut the rebates literally in half. I'm afraid that the net out-the-door price that a customer pays would therefore be about the same as last month.

This GM employee price tactic is just the latest marketing gimmick from GM not the bargain of the century. I hear that it's generating showroom traffic so I'm afraid that we'll see it again from time to time. The real effect on prices is that actual GM employees have to pay more for their cars cause the rebates went way down.

alfox · June 2005

...if auto makers priced their cars at approximately market price in the first place, and stopped the silly perpetual discounting. Would customers accept that and pay the same $$ they pay today, without a phoney discount attached?

I don't think so.

thenebean · June 2005

just like no haggle pricing won't work, neither will pricing a car at approx. market value - people will always look for a discount, and dealers will always be looking to undercut the competition with price...

i guess its just wishful thinking that things would ever change...

-thene

kyfdx · June 2005

It is a "one-price" non-negotiable deal (in theory), but still seems like you are getting a "special" under-the-table, only-for-you discount...

Really good marketing, IMO... Plus, some of the deals are truly cheap ..

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