Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

toyotaken · June 2005

This is becoming more and more the norm as lawsuits get more and more outrageous. From those with broken vehicles saying that 5+ years ago they weren't offered a service program and so it should be covered as they would have enrolled, to the reverse. Again, bad dealers giving those of us who work honestly a bad name and bad customers taking advantage of the way our legal system works.

Toyota Ken

audia8q · June 2005

We havent had any problems but our insurance carrier made the strong suggestion about the cameras.....it helps to avoid any "misunderstandings".......oddly enough the cam in the finance office has never been used to "review" a situation...We used the one in service once to sort out a "he said, she said" thing and the video exposed the customers bold face lie. The look on his face was priceless when we showed him the video...We always give the customer the benefit of the doubt but this guy was one of those asked to leave and never return...the video made it alot easier and eliminated any possible questions.

It is sad that lawyers have forced us to do this kind of stuff,

rroyce10 · June 2005

....... welcome to the real world ....................

Terry.

graphicguy · June 2005

From a customer's perspective, I don't know that I'd want to do business with an outfit that video tapes or monitors private conversations....no matter what the lawyers say.

If you don't trust us, how do you expect us to trust the dealership that practices these types of tactics?

carnivalsc · June 2005

I was the one recorded, and I was the one who heard my husband coughing on the intercom, while he was in the salesman's little office, and I went to the restroom, not the finance office or the service bay, and who the he__ RECORDS conversations from a telephone intercom??? I caught them all just standing there listening. It was nothing but downright spying, to see if we would say something to benefit them, so why can't we spy on the manager and hear their lousy conversations about the deals, what they think we are worth, etc.......... Why would anyone be RECORDING us for protection, there wasn't even a stinking deal yet...they guy was out looking at our van!!!!!!!! It was supposed to be no hassle dealing, because it was GM, so, we sat down, he took the keys to our trade, and went to look at it. We were downright spied on, and then when someone mentioned the bet I had with my brother, the only way that was heard, was through that intercom. After I heard my husband, we looked at the phone, the light was on, and we did not discuss anything about the deal, or much else, because we knew we were being recorded, I gave them an earful of plastic bag rattling, and I took my change purse out and dropped all the coins on the desk, and made enough noise close to the phone, that they hopefully got pretty irritated. The salesman had our keys, and my vehicle was in his possession, so no way for us to leave. I will not buy from them, and I will tell eveyone who wants to know, ,who did this..... If you want to record, tell the customer,,,,,keep it ALL upfront. It still astounds me that dealers wonder why they have such bad reputations, and even the responses on here supporting that practice, show the lack of respect that customers are getting;;;;;LET EVERYONE KNOW YOU ARE BEING RECORDED, STOP BEING SO UNDERHANDED....why hide it??? I just went and bought a pocket recorder, because I am going to a dealership tomorrow, and I will just open my purse, and turn the recorder on, and record the conversation on my own, since it is soooooo fair for the dealer to do it......fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me....it is about time we learn dirty practices also....And, I also called the magistrate's office, and it is legal for me to record a conversation, if I am party to it, but I could not record the conversation between 2 or more other people, if I am not in the conversation, so if they were recording us, they broke the law.....there was no one but me and my husband there. It is also illegal to video someone, if there is audio, unless that person KNOWS it, because it is also considered illegal recording, but not the video, just the audio....laws haven't caught up to the use of video or digital images, just audio.

jlawrence01 · June 2005

Do realize that it works BOTH ways. If the salesman makes a promise to you at the time of purchase and then reneges on it, the dealership can review the tape and make it right. Also, you would be able to subpoena the dealership's collection of tapes of the transactions in case of dispute.

How would it look in court if the dealership does not maintain a copy of the record?

graphicguy · June 2005

jlawrence....I see where you're coming from. Dealers are trying to protect themselves with eavesdropping and video taping.

That said, every new car I've bought within the last 10 years, the dealership had me sign a piece of paper stating that either the sales person was not allowed to make any committments, or another that asked if there was anything committed to by the sales person that wasn't in writing as part of the deal.

I would think that could cover the service depts, too. Maybe a sign that states no verbal committments are valid.

If we've resorted to video taping as a way to make certain both sides are being honest, then there's got to be a better way.

Personally, I would walk out of a dealership, never to return, if they were found to practice those types of tactics. To me, not giving any business my dollars is the best way to show my dissatisfaction with such policies.

graphicguy · June 2005

carnival....just a friendly word of advice. Make this easy. Since you're already here at Edmunds and you've stated you're shopping GM, just go to GMBUYPOWER. Reserach the vehicle you want. Hit the "GM EMPLOYEE PRICE" next to the vehicle you're interested in. Even find a dealer close to you. Check their inventory on-line. You can even print out the Window MSRP Sticker.

When you've found what you want, call them and set up an appointment to view a vehicle. Have the window sticker from your printout and the employee price in hand.

There's no need for the salesperson to do much else than to take you on a test drive. If you like the vehicle, you've already got your price and you don't have to worry about any eavesdropping or recording their conversations.

This will make it easy on you and the dealer. That in turn should make for a "smooth" transaction.

prodigalsunbrn · June 2005

I don't think I heard anyone saying that recording or broadcasting your private conversations was acceptable. Everyone who has talked about this here, especially dealers have said that customers must be made aware of this practice if it happens. They have merely provided reasons why dealerships do record what happens in finance and at the service desk.

Oh, and according to our president, the correct phrase is "Fool me once, Shame on...Shame on...you, Fool me - won't get fooled again!"

audia8q · June 2005

I think there is a difference between secretly recorded conversations specifically designed to gain an unfair advantage and a recording of a specific transaction that that all parties are aware of......remember we only video the finance and service area. Nothing in the showroom area or salespeople offices, bathroom, etc....

There is no benefit to us as a dealership except in a situation where something fishy happened.

jlawrence01 · June 2005

My brother used to sell cars at one of the Cincinnati Ford dealerships. One of his ultra-cheapskate customers came into him to buy an F-150 truck. My brother asked him what he planned to do with the truck to ensure that he got a vehicle that would serve his purposes. The guy started yelling "I dont want you @#$% trying to upsell me on a more expensive truck." My brother sold him a stripped down truck at a good price and he was gone.

Eighteen months later, the same guy shows up screaming that the !@#$% truck couldn't tow a huge boat that he had just bought and accused my brother of forcing him to buy the stripped down truck. (yeah, like a salesman ever wants to sell a CHEAPER vehicle to a customer.)

I think the camera eliminates a lot of the bull, period. Call any of the major brokerage firms or mutual funds or insurance companies to make a transaction and you will note that they use recorded lines for all transactions. And you will also note that if you don't use the "generally accepted" lingo, they will repeat the transactions repeatedly until both parties agree.

Personally, I don't like cameras and recordings and all that stuff. However, with so many crazy people out there and the abundance of starving lawyers, what is a business to do??

mikefm58 · June 2005

And I thought it would be straight forward......

I called 4 local Chevy dealers asking for a Colorado, Z85, 2WD, regular cab, base or LS trim, only must have option is auto tranny, not particular about color. Do you have this in stock. Didn't even bother to ask about price since after all, GM employee pricing is simple, right?

Dealer #1 took the info, my name & number, said he'd call back in about 15 minutes, that was 3 hours ago, still no call. Ok, maybe he misplaced my number so I'll call him back.

Dealers 2 & 3 were what I expected. They even told me the GM employee price of the vehicle, which was exactly as listed online. They are at the top of my list. One has a blue one and the other is white.

Dealer #4 started with the list price, then mentioned a $2K rebate in lieu of financing, yada, yada, yada. I politely (well at first) reminded her I was well aware of the employee pricing and don't want to play any games. Oh sir, but this is employee financing she says, more yada....so...click. I hang up. Someone else in sales calls back in 5 minutes, apologizes up & down, too late, won't give THEM my business. They're either incredibly stupid, incompetent, or still playing the high pressure game.

Which brings up an interesting question. How has the GM employee pricing affected the dealer's bottom line? Not much room to play with as far as pricing goes is there?

mikefm58 · June 2005

Well stated. I have no problem with things being taped, as long as it's mentioned up front and not used to get an advantage during the negotiations.

graphicguy · June 2005

I can see where it would be protection for both dealer and customer to have a verbal/visual record. I would just feel uncomfortable having been a party to it.....on either side of the desk. Unfortunately, it sounds like there's enough dishonesty by dealership personnel as well as customers that this type of behavior becomes viable as a way of protection. Sad, really!

jlawrence....having just had an education in "unwinding" a deal, it never crossed my mind that someone would act in the manner your borther's customer did....someone wanting to unwind a deal for no good reason....other than to try to screw the dealership. I got some real eye opener advice on why dealerships are very cautious to take anyting back. Not saying they aren't legitimately in their right to refuse, but it sure makes it tough on those who have good reasons for unwinding a deal.

mike....since I was in the market for a truck about a month ago. I was at the tail end of my shopping when GM announced their employee pricing for everyone. I went into the GM showrrom for no other reason than the discounts. I went to one GMC dealer and one Chevy dealer. Both were more than willing to show me the employee pricing. Of course, this is after I did some research and had the pricing printout in hand when I walked into the dealership. They would look up the vin#, show me the truck and confirm the price I got from GMBUYPOWER. It was really quite simple. Unfortunately, GM didn't have anything that appealed to me.

I would imagine some sales people you call are just clueless. That's something I can't understand if that's the way you make you're living, but I've seen it more than once. That is, I know more about pricing, features, rebates, options, specs of the vehicle in question than the sales person does.

A dealer General Manager I've worked with for years said GM is reimbursing the dealerships for at least part of the profit they are giving up for the Employee Pricing Program. He also said the program has been great since it's cleared out 80% of his '05 inventory (Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealer). He's hoping GM continues it. Don't know what it does to a GM sales person's income, though since every unit would end up being "skinny commission" deal.

carnivalsc · June 2005

carnivalsc · June 2005

I have an ad here for a dealership, that says, in 1/4 inch letters, "We will give you the REAL Kelly Blue Book value on your trade in, too". Now, since I am not inclined to believe too much in the honesty of dealerships or ads right now, what am I not seeing here??????? Is this a different Kelly Blue Book than I find on the internet, is this a Kelly Blue Book from Mars, or what.... I want to know if this is a scam...or shady :shades:

jlawrence01 · June 2005

Graphic,

The problem these days is that MOST businesses will not spend a dime or the time on training their employees. My wife and I have trained at least 20 restaurant servers on how to use a credit card machine as the employee did not know how to use it. Ten years ago, I could find better airfares using EAASYSABER that my $6/ hour corporate travel agent.

Nowadays, the informed buyers can get almost all the information through various other sources. I don't mind doing that. However, if I have to deal with "non-service" or "self service", don't charge me the same price as you charge the person who wants the dealer to hold his hand, escort him on three test drives, etc.

I don't mind paying more for a business suit if a salesman has taken all my measurements and has assisted in my selection. However, I want a lower price if I select my own suit and the wife does the alterations.

pat · June 2005

Uhh, the thing to do would be to take this back to the appropriate Bait and Switch discussion where you posted carnivalsc, "Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc." #3255, 30 Jun 2005 4:51 pm.

I'm not the host here, just an interested reader, but I have to observe that you've been given some awfully good advice from a lot of our members on how to just get by this problem and purchase the vehicle you want.

Perhaps you could spell out exactly what you'd like for us to do to help you with this?

carnivalsc · June 2005

:confuse: I have posted here, because as the title of this forum states, it is ask a dealer a question. Since this is a dealer question, I have thus posted. Also, even though I did post on bait and switch, I don't seem to be able to find anywhere in that post about this question. So, are you suggesting that this IS a bait and switch? I am asking a DEALER question, or so I thought. If a dealer will tell me this is bait and switch, then I will repost to the appropriate forum, but, as a consumer, who is not aware of all the dealer references, I am asking for DEALER input. I did not ask about purchasing, this is pretty straight forward, is there a Kelly Blue Book the general public does not know about? So, I wil repeat my question, about KELLY BLUE BOOK. Is there a Kelly Blue Book the general public does not know about? Thanks for the suggestion about moving the post, but, I still think this is a dealer question, and if it bothers you so much, just ignore it and let someone else respond, I don't want to cause stress to you....like I have been told on the other forum, there is so much more to worry about than my little problems. :confuse:

stever · June 2005

I'm not the host here either, but this is one of my favorite links to post around Edmunds:

What is the "Kelley Blue Book" Price?

According to the article, there's a subscription version of Kelley only available to dealers.

Gee, maybe I better hang up the phone - I feel like I've been eavesdropping on the conversations here.

Steve, Host

rroyce10 · June 2005

....... All do respect here Carnivalsc .. first of all, we need to get you to Paragraph School ...

You've posted what, 10/12 times in the last 2 days..? .... and so far, you don't like the value of your 100,000 mile vehicle - so everyone must be wrong, I posted the answer to the "Kelly Blue Book" question and you either didn't read it or you felt it wasn't important ... you feel the dealer was listening to your conversations - so they're bad guys and they were spying on you .... you don't like the ad's - so someone must be lying to you ....

The funny part about all this is, there is pages and pages of good information where Edmunds explains the cost, the invoice, rebates and any incentives of every car you can possibly want .. but for whatever reason, it's seems you haven't been over to that side of the site - why is that.? ... you've had 15 some nice folks try to explain how and where to go, and where to find the right information, but it's "seems" to fall on deaf ears or you defy whatever the next answer is, I find that very curious ......

I could be wrong, I've been before .. but I've kicked around Edmunds long enough to get a smell of a troll when one hits the board .... everyone has tried to help you thru the first 30 steps, but your still on the first step, still dragging around the same story and arguing with anybody and everybody that's trying to help, in the meantime you're trying to drop anyone into the grease ..... on purpose maybe.?

..... sniff sniff sniff .........................................

Terry.

steine13 · June 2005

"KELLY BLUE BOOK"

I'm wondering if you don't really know the answer to the question.

But in case you don't, I'll give it to you.
The ad is baloney. It is such common baloney that it has a name; these things are called "screamer ads" and are used, with good success, by large dealerships that cater to the unsophisticated.

Used cars have no set values. The books are guides, and they are pretty lousy guides at that. Every used car is different; a 30k off-lease Civic is easier to price than an, oh, say, 100k Chrysler minivan, but it still comes down to the look/touch/feel of the individual car.

Therefore, anybody who advertises "so much over book" or "$2000 minimum for your trade -- push pulll or drag" or any similar hoo-hoo is just trying to get bodies into the dealership for a fleecing.

I've bought from places that do that sort of thing; it's not like it's contagious. But I never worried about the ads.

Simply put, any kind of magic these places do, they will do with YOUR money. But I suspect you really knew that. Right?

As far as any hope you'll get "book value" or whatever for your minivan; forget it. It's worth what it's worth, and I don't know what it's worth. But it ain't worth much :-(

I do think that you should lay off of your vendetta against car dealers. You want to rail against credit card companies or Wal mart or something, maybe I'll help...

-Mathias

carnivalsc · June 2005

:P What?

I could be wrong, I've been before .. but I've kicked around Edmunds long enough to get a smell of a troll when one hits the board .... everyone has tried to help you thru the first 30 steps, but your still on the first step and arguing with anybody and everybody that's trying to help, in the meantime you're trying to drop everyone into the grease, still ..... on purpose maybe.? ..... sniff sniff sniff .........................................

Get a grip people, I am trying to understand one simple question because I am apparantly uniformed, and did I just get called a troll????? Seems pretty childish to me. I did not know there is a KBB forum, because I don't spend hours on here like it seems some other people do. Seems there are too many people on here with nothing else to do, except pick apart someone who is trying to understand what is going on. I don't think I mentioned anything today about the price of my van, which I just sold for over $6000.00, and why do you assume that I am inquiring about that. I happen to have a spouse, who is looking to sell also, who asked me to post that question about KBB.

Troll??????????? Pretty rude. :P

isellhondas · June 2005

Wow! You are REALLY upset over this.

If you would use PARAGRAPHS, it would make your postings a lot more readable.

Never listened to my advise didya?

isellhondas · June 2005

She just found someone willing to pay "over 6000.00" for a miled up chrysler minivan??? :surprise:

You should give her a job!!

pat · June 2005

Well, I guess the thing is that you've got two entire discussions tied up in trying to help you. But you don't accept help, you keep fighting with us.

I think you are causing way more stress to yourself than you are to any of the rest of us ... :surprise:

If you want to buy a vehicle, you really need to put this very bad experience behind you and take the advice of our many seasoned members who have tried to help.

We aren't the dealership that apparently mistreated you so badly ... we're just trying to help you get your vehicle and put this behind you!

capitano · June 2005

There is no magic to this deal you are trying to get done. The screamer ad dealer is using that tactic to get you into the showroom. They put that ad in there because they know there are people out there like you who place a lot of value on getting the blue book price for their trade. The dealer will be happy to give it to you, but you'll pay more for the new car. They're looking at the total transaction price.

They have this sheet called the four-square that they use to find your button. For most people the button is the monthly payment. For others, it is the actual price of the vehicle. For you it seems that the trade in allowance is your button. The dealer will pick that out in a matter of minutes and they will build the deal around it. You'll walk away satisified that you got the right amount on your trade, but you won't come out ahead on the total deal.

Every car shopping advice article I have ever seen says that if you are dead set on getting maximum money for your trade then you should sell it yourself.

pat · June 2005

You are not being called a "troll" because you don't understand "one simple question" - it is coming from the fact that you are not responding to the bunches of posts trying to help you, instead you are continuing to fight with us.

Once again - we are not the dealership that treated you in the manner that has upset you. We are trying to help you.

If you can tell us exactly how you would like us to help you, maybe we can do that. At least we wouldn't be operating in the dark, which is how it feels right now.

carnivalsc · June 2005

As you all said, books don't buy cars. I took the van to have it certified for sale on Ebay, the person who was to do that saw the condition, service records, compared the prices already on ebay, and vans advertised in our area, and bought the van for his sister.

Who knew my lack of paragraphs would be enough to send someone in a tizzy?

Who knew my question about KBB would garner so much venom, as to be called a troll?

Who assumed I was still asking about the van? Does everyone on here just drive or own one vehicle?

Thank you to steine13 who told me what a screamer ad is, and went into more explanation in his post, because unlike you all, who seem to be here unendingly, I never posted here until I knew about this site until a few days ago. I hope that if ever any of you have questions about things foreign to you, you are not critcized or called a troll, because you truly do NOT understand what is going on, and go to a site to seek advice and help, only to get slammed for asking questions, and more questions when the answers just seem to not "hit the spot".

I have found some advice helpful, and some of you rude. Guess that does not matter to the rude ones, if that is the way they go through life, trying to make someone feel bad for not understanding, and then questioning.

Hope you all feel real good, and I hope the troll statement gave everyone a giggle.

Pardon me for not accepting the pablum spooned to me without question.

isellhondas · June 2005

Hopefully you got the answers you wanted. It just seemed like you had no interest in listening to us and only wanted to rehash your tale of woe.

pru · June 2005

No dealership - or other business - is going to retain this volume of recorded audio/video transactions to protect against someone asserting that "they weren't offered extended service." Good Grief. I agree that there are bad customers, but certainly most dealers rank in the "just below a used car salesman" area of trust. Oops. That IS what we're talking about isn't it? This is just as likely management's mandate to protect the consumer from some slimeball finance/service advisor to avoid some real or threatened legal action. It's easy to sell as "consumer protection," but I am very comfortable making the assertion that it's protecting the corporation for some reason that isn't being published.

baby101 · June 2005

Car Dealership is brunch of crooks. After they try to get you to put down deposit on a new car, The finance manager will rip you big time when you sign the contract.
My suggestion is never finance in the dealership and borrow money somewhere else to pay in cash. Anyone agree with me?

kyfdx · June 2005

I want to know what dealer serves brunch.. I never got this from any of my dealerships.... What a ripoff!! :mad:

capitano · June 2005

No.

Financing at the dealer is perfectly fine. It may even let you get a better price on the vehicle since they get some profit on the back end. I would recommend get financing arranged ahead of time from another source if only for the sake of comparison.

When I bought my Matrix I got approved through capital one auto finance. I told the finance manager that if he could beat their rate I would finance through them. He beat the rate by 0.05% and I went with TFS.

user777 · June 2005

i managed to get a honda finance rep give me a better deal than my credit union. i knew exactly how much better the deal was because i knew all the numbers and played some "what if" games.

microsoft excel has a very good spreadsheet function that will help you calculate monthly payments and total interest paid on the amount borrowed. you can compare numerous quotes or scenarios using one spreadsheet.

you should know what a good deal is on the vehicle you wish to purchase, but you should also be smart about arranging the financing...and there's no reason the finance person can't help you out there if you've done your homework.

i've heard of people buying vehicles on terms of 60 months and much more. oh my their vehicles must end up being expensive.

prodigalsunbrn · June 2005

I'll accept brunch from crooks any day of the week. Of course, I hate those crooks who steal my Brunch, bad crooks!

Get pre-approved by your credit union/bank/eloans before going to the dealership. Then see if the dealership can do better. Most of the time they can.

Carnivalsc, I saw you get your questions answered like 3 times for each post, from dealer and regulars alike around here. You chose to ignore what they said, or only zero in on part of the post, or perhaps didn't read it, or didn't like the big words. Then, when others got frustrated with this behavior, you chose to get insulting, Oh, no, they're all the problem, you couldn't possibly be the issue, it's all the nasty car dealers posting here deliberatly lying in wait to make your life a living He--. Sheesh, take some personal responsiblility.

ifyoubuildit · June 2005

"Car Dealership is brunch of crooks. After they try to get you to put down deposit on a new car, The finance manager will rip you big time when you sign the contract. "

Whoa - that was a harsh and very stereotypical remark.

rroyce10 · July 2005

.. **i've heard of people buying vehicles on terms of 60 months and much more** ..

Heard..? .. were have you've you been.?

90% of the market goes LTF (Long Term Financing) and that means 66, 72 and some even snort some Draino and do (gulp) 84 months .. some customers will shop 5 dealers just to make sure their 72 month car loan doesn't exceed their target payment .... how about putting some money down.?

Terry.

manamal · July 2005

Hey! I finance over 72 months....it makes it easier to manage the cash flow in a bad month. Of course, with my last 5 cars, I put down 4k, 6k, 6k, 6k; 5k on Hondas, Toyotas and Subarus. And when I disposed of the cars, I have not been upsidedown. So it seems to work for me.

rroyce10 · July 2005

.. **....it makes it easier to manage the cash flow in a bad month. Of course, with my last 5 cars, I put down 4k, 6k, 6k, 6k; 5k on Hondas, Toyotas and Subarus.** ....

You just answered your own question .. your "managing" your money - you're putting substantial $$ down and you have scheduled payments and thats a good thing ...

That said, your a minority - yep, just a small portion of todays buyers ... most want 66/72 months, they have $3,500 of negative equity in their trade and not even enough money down to cover their $2,200 in taxes ..... so -if- the lender will buy $35,000 on this $29,000 vehicle and -if the payment is xxx for 72 months and -if- the moon is in it's 2nd quarter ...... see where I'm going with this.?

Terry :shades:

graphicguy · July 2005

jlaw....you've hit on probably the biggest problem for any industry....lack of training. I would think that would be the first thing you'd want in the sales industry, though. While not in the sales field, I've always been close enough to it to understand that training (as well as hard work and motivation) is key for any salesperson to be successful.

NO matter what the product or service, the likelihood of me buying a suit, a lawnmower, a car, etc from someone, regardless of the price, is more a function of the sales person's expertise than anything else.

I've seen my share of good car sales people and bad car sales people. Some people that I've bought vehicles from have gone so far as to ask me for a job while they had me on a test drive. So, I can imagine it's a tough business.

That said, the good ones (the ones I usually buy from) know thier product, are good about presenting it to me and are adept at finding and fulfilling my automotive needs. Those are also the ones who have all the plaques on their walls for "outstanding sales performance". Pricing information is easy enough to find from Edmunds and those who are veterans in the field who post here. Armed with that information, pricing is pretty far down the list of things I'm concerned about when buying a car/truck. I'm confident in the homework I've done. That's a credit to this site and to those who post here.

Good story....I've spent quite a bit of time in a Toyota dealership recently. This particular dealership has a Scion store attached. I had been in the dealership so much, that I got to know the receptionist on a first name basis. The last time I was in there, she was gone and someone else was sitting out front at her desk. When I inquired about the "absent" receptionist, I was told she was now selling new cars at the Scion store. Apparently, over the last couple of months she took it upon herself that she didn't want to be a receptionist any longer and had studied every piece of material Scion gave the dealership.....including memorizing the owners manuals of each model. Since she was personable and had a lot of product knowledge, they bumped her up to be their lone Scion sales person. I was impressed for no other reason than this lady decided she could sell and then went about the job of training herself to be successful at it.

She had sold 3 Scions the first day in her new sales position. That makes for a good employee who is that dedicated. I'm sure she'll continue to do well.

graphicguy · July 2005

Terry....I've heard of people financing cars for 60-66-72 months and I still can't get my arms around it from a financial standpoint. I've also heard how they try and justify it and I still don't get it. Even worse, I've heard stories of how people lease vehicles for that length of time. Either I'm too old or I'm too conservative (probably both), I just can't see where it makes a lick of sense.

I'm awestruck every time I venture over to the F&I threads of what I read there. You can see where some people's deep financial woes began at the car dealership. Can't afford the kids education, but you've got a shiny new Escalade sitting in the driveway on a 7 year payment plan. Maybe my priorities are screwed up.

Then again, I've spent $50K on new vehicles myself just this year. 15 years ago if you would have told me I'd do such a thing I would have said you should lay off the crack pipe.

lemmer · July 2005

Long term loans can be used intelligently. Sure, people abuse them just like people abuse credit cards and home equity loans.

I recently bought a car and took out a 60 month loan. The interest rate was low enough that I would have taken out a 30 year loan at the same rate if they would have let me. I have cash to pay off the balance anytime I like, but I enjoy having some liquidity in the meantime.

1racefan · July 2005

If you finance a vehicle for 60 mos (and let's assume there are no penalties for for early pay off), does it help your credit score more to pay off a 60 mo loan in say 48 mos than it would to just make all 60 payments on time over the regular 60 mo period?

graphicguy · July 2005

OK.....I quit....I give! You win!

Good luck in your search! Lord help the next dealership you walk in the front door of!

lemmer · July 2005

He schooled the experts and got $6,000 for his $2,000 minivan. I hope he didn't sell it someone he knows.

Let that be a lesson for you pablum-spooners.

kurtamaxxguy · July 2005

Edmunds and other places have commented on the aspects of having one's license scanned and that it often leads to unnecessarry credit checks that lower your credit score.

So, Dealers, when is it reasonable or expected for License Scanning to occur? When customer:

1. test drives a car?
2. announces they wish to finance a car?
3. wants to sit in the car (not drive it yet?)
4. walks in the door?

I've had all cases above happen to me.
In one case I was also asked for SSN# during the sales chat.

geo9 · July 2005

Here in NY if you are a NYS Lottery retailer. Your sale terminal has a scan
feature to scan your NYS drivers license bar code to verify your age for
booze or lottery age sale verification !

graphicguy · July 2005

(in my best Mr T impression)....I pity the fool who ponied up $6K for a 7 year old, 100K mile minivan that's worth $2K as a trade or, at best, $3,500 retail. I guess that makes me one of those pablum spooners.

Regarding long term financing, I can see doing that when the maufacturers are offering 0% or low finance rates. But, from what I read in some of the threads, most who are financing on 72 month loans don't seem to be the ones who qualify for those rates. So now, not only are they going to be upside down for most of the loans length, they are also hit with higher than normal interest rates. Kind of a double wammy, in my estimation.

And, for what? The "priviledge" of driving something they'll get tired of in the next couple of years anyway. Go back into the dealer. Add their negative equity into their next "vehicle du jour" and be even more upside down. You can see where they get into financial hot water with that vicious circle.

mark156 · July 2005

Carnivalsc.... I must have missed something... The many previous posts didn't seem argumentative to me but I have been lurking here since 1999 and maybe I'm used to the lingo here.

Someone called me a troll once and I just laughed... I was on the Mercedes SUV board telling about a problem with the new ML that my best friend who lives in the Chicago area told me about ...his friend works at a large dealership that sells BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, Honda, Saab, etc... and the first two new ML's came in with a brake problem. Someone said I was trolling.... I think the info was accurate, I just passed it on.

Good luck for selling your van... now you can go buy a new car without worrying about a trade.

Mark

Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles