Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

ezshift5 · July 2005

......in good faith, the request was for sage advice(thank you, Bobst)......

..the opinion/sarcasm: spare us. ez

breinders · July 2005

When should Honda replace a brand new vehicle?

The engine is being replaced in my two week old '05 Ody (purchased on 6/30/2005 and has been in shop since 7/16/2005 with 600 miles on it). Oil pressure went to zero in the engine and they can't figure out why. The Honda Corp. regional service manager has directed the dealer to replace the entire engine (long block).

I am extremely unhappy and concerned about this. Regardless of how good of a job the dealer's techs do at replacing the engine there are risks of problems down the road. I would like to start over with a new van. Honda is only offering a 5/50 warranty on the new engine.

What do you feel Honda should do in this case? How would you recommend that I proceed in communicating that to them?

butchbr73 · July 2005

ez,
....curious, does your state allow a sales tax credit on trade-ins? Meaning, when you trade a vehicle into the same dealer you are purchasing from, they deduct the trade-in from the new car and you pay tax on only the difference. In my last transaction, I saved in the neighborhood of $1,2xx on sales taxes by trading the car into the same dealer instead of selling elsewhere or even selling it myself.

....just a thought, trading into the dealer where you purchase sometimes has more value than you think

If they lowball you, heck, why not show them the offer from Carmax... beat it, you got a deal.... no reason to hide it, huh?

bdr127 · July 2005

Under most states' lemon laws, the problem must be found within the first year and the problem cannot be fixed after three attempts (or in the shop for 15 or 30 days -- depending on state). If they can fix the problem, no matter how big, then the lemon law is not invoked.

If this big problem is expensive, they'll still do it under warranty and the manufacturer will pay for it. Presumably, if the repair is more than the value of the car or a replacement, then they'll just buy you a new car. However, under warranty they are still obligated to fix the problem, not just buy a replacement because the customer doesn't feel comfortable (even though we all would feel uncomfortable with that!)

I have an acquaintance that bought a Dodge Ram truck and the transmission blew out within a month. He complained incessantly because they didn't buy him a new truck... and I probably would, too.... but that isn't how the warranty works, unfortunately.

frnkrzzo · July 2005

carmax is usually a little above actual value. their point is to entice you with a high trade amount, then sell you one of theirs for, i assure you, a substantial profit. the idea of simpley selling to carmax and then buying from a different dealer is great, but keep the sales tax savings in mind. you have to get more than the appraisal from the actual dealer times the sales tax in your state for this to make financial sense. if you sell to carmax, you will pay sales tax on the full purchase amount at your dealer. no big deal if you have a low value beater trade. major deal if you have a high dollar trade. the dealer selling you the new one will not care one way or the other if you sell to carmax. i sometimes refer customers to them if they are unrealistic about their trade.

mitzij · July 2005

I'd keep the van. My car had it's engine replaced at 7k miles (before I owned it) and it's been running strong for 14 years. There is always the potential for trouble, after all, it's a machine. If your confidence is terribly shaken, you could try for a new vehicle, but I think it would be more trouble than it's worth.

frnkrzzo · July 2005

lemon laws are not exactly simple things. most all manufacturers will fight to the bitter end. chrysler/dodge actually has a pretty good record on such things as far as i know, believe it or not. then again, the lemon laws may have been written especially for chrysler/dodge. now there just needs to be some state laws forbidding the 84/96 month financing that their doing and everyone will be safe.

:lemon:

chum · July 2005

:surprise:

Shopping around for the best deal is tacky? Should I take the first offer of the first dealer I visit? Bargaining is bad?

When I visited CarMax there were about 8-10 salesmen at the door standing around waiting for customers (this was @5PM on a Friday in a large city). I didn't like the offer they made and went to the dealer I had been working with online. The offer they came in with was a tad higher than CM offered so I took it. To me, it's being a smart consumer.

Chad

thenebean · July 2005

i dont think he was saying that getting a great deal is tacky, but the guy let him test drive one of their vehicles for 24 hours - that doesnt happen often, if at all at most places...you'd at least want to try to do business there, and buy even if they are a hundred or two over everyone else...

thats all he was saying...

-thene

qbrozen · July 2005

Heck the 5/50 warranty is better than that on the original engine (3/36), so I wouldn't have a problem with it, personally.

jennywenny · July 2005

How much can you save on buying a demo?

danf1 · July 2005

That depends on the car and on the dealer. Usually at my store, the savings isn't all that much. Now if you are looking at a car that sells for close to MSRP, then you may find a decent savings, but those cases are rare.

If you are still looking at the Pacifica, I'd say its probably not worth it.

isellhondas · July 2005

I've enjoyed your posts and you sound like a very sincere person. Any business is only as good as it's management and it sounds like you've made the right decision. I wish you well and I'm glad you are sticking around.

I work at a family owned store that treats us like family and I know I wouldn't have lasted in the "typical" store.

thenebean · July 2005

i feel as though i have made the right decision as well - i spoke to my manager today (the old one) and he thinks im making the right decision too...

we'll see what happens!

-thene

kurtamaxxguy · July 2005

From what I was told by legal council a year ago, Honda and Mercedes can very difficult to get redress from ("we don't make lemons"). Perhaps that has changed now. But that info certainly factored into my deciding against a new Honda back then.

cadillacmike · July 2005

I'll be at Pearl, so let me know and I'll say hi for you

"putt-put" is what my wife and I call any little underpoweed jelly bean car. :P

cadillacmike · July 2005

I used to live in MA.

Once a vehicle is registered by ANYONE it's no longer" new". the dealer hornswaggled you - they tried to pass the car off as "new - demonstrator" when it wasn't. There MUST be a title somewhere. The dealer or the leasing company has it.

If you're happy with the mileage and reduced warranty coverage with this car, I would let the dealer fix the p[roblem that THEY caused. If you don't like the car or what they did, then you can make life painful for them with the good old commonwealth of Taxachusetts.

cadillacmike · July 2005

"We buy cars that we realy like and, unless we give them to our kids, we drive them for at least 120K miles. That takes at least 10 years. At that point, no car is worth very much. "

Except for 1994-96 Fleetwoods

cadillacmike · July 2005

"It is VIN etching that they are trying to make you buy. It is a valid aftermarket product, but by no means should it be mandatory. If you don't want it, tell them so. There are many laws protecting you from having to pay for it regardless of what they call it. "

Plus, it only coast about twent bucks, not 200 :mad:

ezshift5 · July 2005

..point well taken!! This deal was thru CarsDirect. They got the CA sales tax up front (while simultaneously securing the deal - getting $500 'earnest' $$$ via M/C)

I'll have to "re-visit" my Supra Turbo purchase of yesteryear to scope out how my trade affected state sales tax.

I visited the dealer responding to a R/T Aug/05(pp. 63-66) two page ad; I bought the car because of the test drive!! My similar (V6/manual) Toyota paled big time!

..appreciate all the input........Sunday is pick-up day...stay tuned...........ez

jane0218 · July 2005

I live in Arizona. Does anyone out there know where I can go to find out if Arizona allows a sales tax credit on trade-ins? In other words, I want to find out if I purchase a car for $15,000 and get trade in credit of $5,000, will I be taxed on the original $15,000 or the net $10,000?
I'm looking for something official I can print out and bring to the dealership.
Any help appreciated.

danf1 · July 2005

Arizona will give you tax credit for trades.

jane0218 · July 2005

Thanks, danf1, for replying.
Do you know where I could go to get that info in its official form?? (i.e. which government website, or something official??)
Thanks.

tigger10678 · July 2005

Thank you for your feedback on the license thing.

My next question is on cars and suvs. I am torn between buying an suv (which is what I really want) or buying a sedan (because of the gas prices). I don't want to spend more than $27,000. Does anybody have any thoughts about the Mazda3 if I choose to buy a sedan? Is it really any good long term? If I choose to buy an suv, is the Chevy Equinox any good? I am currently driving a 96' Nissan Maxima which has roughly 225,000 miles on it and it's still hanging in there- so I know Nissan cars are very reliable but I don't like any of the new maximas or altimas and there suvs are too exspensive.

rroyce10 · July 2005

.... Sorry to hear that .. when one door closes another one opens, so I'm sure you'll find something quickly and be twice as successful .....

Terry.

rroyce10 · July 2005

........ The only reason why the contract shows that way, it's a lenders thing .... the top line of the contract can't be less than the bottom line, you can't show "negative equity" ... similiar to mortgage lending, you can't show over LTV on paper .. and no, the wash-out sheets show the total gross and the cost of both vehicles, so there isn't any extra commission paid - even though I've had a few sales people "try" to "splain" something different ..l.o.l....

Terry.

danf1 · July 2005

Try looking up the NADA or going to Arizona's DMV website. I pulled it out of the NADA title and registration book.

butchbr73 · July 2005

...call a local dealer? they should know immediately, ask to speak with the F&I guy... should be able to answer that off the top of their head from filling out all the proper paperwork to title and register the vehicle.

bmw3434 · July 2005

To anyone in internet auto sales ...
I work for a BMW dealership, and though we do sell a lot of cars for our size, we do not have an internet site with our new car inventory.
Several dealers around us do, but for some reason, management will not spend the money nor the time to get an up and running internet dept.
I would enjoy operating and updating the site, but I need to have facts and numbers to back up why we need this.
Can anyone in this forum tell me how their internet dept. is operated and if there is that much of a difference in sales.
I might be spinning my wheels with the GM and Pres., but I feel as though it's something that would ultimately help the dealership.
Thanks in advance.

bmw3434

mirth · July 2005

...a simple web site with the address, phone number, and a map of how to get there? That's pretty stone age.

asafonov · July 2005

If the OP did not "waste" the CarMax employee's time, CarMax would have had zero chance at the OP's business.

I am all for being considerate, but competitive bidding is pervasive, and one cannot hope for a 100% closing ratio.

kyfdx · July 2005

Mazda 3.. a fantastic car .. reasonably priced.. 4yr/50K warranty..

Chevy Equinox? I'm not much of a Chevy fan, period.. I'd recommend a CR-V, instead (though I realize it is not very "trucky").

regards,
kyfdx
(not a car dealer)

asafonov · July 2005

Well, will you be kicking yourself harder for not buying what you like, or for high(er) gas bills?

The gas prices in the U.S. are still low enough that, unless one drives much more than the average 12000-15000 miles per year AND drives a true gas hog, most middle income folks probably will not suffer financially from choosing a less gas-frugal vehicle. For example: at 15k miles per year and with gas at $2 a gallon, a 20 mpg vehicle will cost $1500 per year in gas. A 30mpg vehicle will cost $1000 - a difference of $500 a year, a little over $40 a month. Most cars and car-based SUVs and crossovers will fall in this 20-30 mpg range, so savings from choosing a small economy car are not great. Of course, the latter is the responsible thing to do...

You sound like you are still considering very different vehicles, even classes of vehicles - you mentioned Mazda3 and the Equinox. My advice, and I hope the pros on this board will agree, is to test drive all the cars you consider, preferably at a less-than-busy time at a dealership, such as a weekday morning or afternoon if possible. Explain to the salespeople that you have not really narrowed down your car choice but are a real (as in will buy in the next 1-2-3 weeks) buyer. Those that will not give you the time of a day will have, shall we say, diminish chances of doing business with you.

As Terry here says, "Buy what you like..." (to which I would add, and can comfortably afford...)

mirth · July 2005

If you want an SUV, get an SUV, otherwise you won't be happy. If you're worried about gas prices, consider these small SUV's:

Chevy Equinox/Pontiac Torrent (if you can stand the shnozz on it)
Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute/Mercury Mariner (I kinda like the Mariner looks, but that's me)
Honda CRV
Jeep Liberty (has a deisal option)
Saturn VUE
Subaru Forrester

I've left off the Toyota RAV4, because I think it's too small too be called an SUV, and Hyundai, Kia, and Suzuki because I don't trust their products.

manamal · July 2005

except that carmax encourges people to do that...Why? because in the end, they usually get the car!

bmw3434 · July 2005

Well, we do have a very 5th-grade project cheesy internet site with phone numbers, but no way to see what we have in inventory. Just a couple of lease specials which almost are impossible to do anyway.
Can anyone see anything going wrong with having your new car inventory online?

bdr127 · July 2005

Tell your president and GM to get out of the stone age...... They are no doubt "old school" car salesmen and don't believe in internet sales. They probably think that it's a "waste of money" or "people don't buy cars online" or "you can't make any gross on internet shoppers" etc...... Try and welcome them to the 21st century.

mirth · July 2005

Well, if you have to rely on someone typing the inventory data in, then don't even bother because you'll never keep up with it. And having it done automatically is completely dependant on the software you use to track it (please tell me they use software to track it). I'm actually surprised that BMW doesn't have a framework already in place for its dealers to use, like GM and Ford do. But if you have to start from scratch with a consultant or some such, it could get pricey.

thenebean · July 2005

your gm and pres. are living in the old skool way of selling cars. autotrader.com has seminars every so often to discuss the potential of internet sales and how great it is. if you can call someone at autotrader, im sure they can send you a list of when they will be in the area. then, let them know to attend (they get free breakfast!)

they don't promote their site, so much as good internet practices - 87% of people surf the internet BEFORE shopping for a car!!!

-thene

kyfdx · July 2005

You don't have to go through all that... BMWUSA.com has links to all dealers, and you can use their website to update CPO inventory, etc...

I don't know how much they charge individual dealers to get the expanded use of the website, but it looks like the tools are already in place to expand your web presence..... Seems like it would be fairly simple, and you'd have the support help of BMW NA..

Seems like a no-brainer..

dreasdad · July 2005

Rav4 is actually larger than the CRv in many demensions and has not been catching on fire after oil changes as the CRV has

dreasdad · July 2005

sometimes it does cause more headaches than it helps, usually takes 4 to 5 days to book out the deal and remove the car from the web site, then you have cars that you have addded things to at the dealer or deleted things from and you would constanly have to upadate those as well. As long as you have a contact page where they can email you and let you know what they want I think you are good.

kyfdx · July 2005

If you've ever been inside a RAV4 and a CR-V... I think you'd disagree..

Statistics don't always tell the story... There is much more room inside a CR-V, than a RAV4... RAV4 is a great little SUV..

jlawrence01 · July 2005

I have never been in a CR-V so I cannot comment on its size. I rode from Cincinnati out to Hillsboro, OH on Tuesday in the back of a RAV4 and I was pleasantly surprised with the amount of space there is for four large adults and how easy it was to get into and out of.

cti · July 2005

I don't want to spend more than $27,000. Does anybody have any thoughts about the Mazda3 if I choose to buy a sedan? Is it really any good long term?

I own a Mazda3 hatch so I am a little biased. I love mine. You won't spend more than $27,000 and if you wait until the 2006's arrive the highest trim GT gets a few added goodies.

Cruise on over to the Mazda3 forum and ask your question. You will see that not only do almost all the owners lover their cars, but most importantly WHY we like them.

bobst · July 2005

Get the SUV, Tigger. It's what you want, and it will have plenty of room for your macho friend Winnie.

gregjohnson · July 2005

I have a question for a car dealer...

Suppose for a moment a regular joe wanted to buy a new car. Let's call him "Joe".

Let's say Joe has decided to buy a new car - he's a serious, qualified buyer. Let's say Joe's looked around a good bit for a few years, bought a few cars in his time, has read all the FAQs on the various sites, keeps an eye on RWTIV and even annoys the denizens occasionally. In other words, Joe's a freak.

Freak or not, Joe's not looking to waste anyone's time. If it takes sitting in a dealership for 16 hours on a rainy Christmas day and demanding three valet keys - Well, if that's how the game is played so be it. Still, let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Now, Joe knows markets set prices and books don't buy cars. He know dealer asks often have huge room to bury upside-down trades, especially on domestics. He knows private asks are KBB Retail, plus a little something for the missus. Joe also know the money is made on the buy, but he's not against the other guy feeding his kids.

If Joe "knows" these things, why does everyone else in the market seem oblivious to them? Is everyone (including the pros) just waiting for a sucker? Do they get tired of waiting, and if so how do you make sure you're there when they do? (Private sales can't go to auction, after all)

Or, it it just that some folks represent themselves in such a manner that a negotiable price firms up? (a.k.a. "Soy un perdedor") Or is it just that business in Atlanta is so good everyone is acting like BMW? (At least they have the "Ultimate driving machine" excuse... Works for me

)

-Greg

On further reflection, this is getting depressing. I mean, really, on three different occasions I've driven onto different lots determined to buy a car/truck that day, and these guys aren't even trying to sell me*. I have gotta be doing something wrong here.

(Or, is it just simply a matter of Brownian motion, where the buyers bump up against sellers and if the seller lowers their ask enough the buyer hits it? )

* OK, Toyota kinda tried, I probably held a little too firm on the Tundra, but still....

719b · July 2005

i usually follow the threads pretty well, but i didn't understand a thing you said. maybe you can ask your question without so much story telling.

gregjohnson · July 2005

Story telling?

Aside from an ancient buying guide reference paired with a Bobst Way(tm) reference, I wasn't really shooting for "story".

I guess the technical version would be:

1) The car market functions. Ergo, it is "rational" to the current participants.
2) Despite substantial effort, it does not look rational to me.
(Nor, does it act that way when I try to interact with it.)
3) Since it does function, the error must be mine.

Thus, my question is: Can anyone identify my error?

Does that help?

-Greg

719b · July 2005

you're norm crosby

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