Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Similar at Fitzmall: $18,400
I don't see a huge difference there. My experience is that I can get a dealer to beat carmax . Carmax is a place to sell used cars (if it is a car they want, they will beat the trade values by at least 1K, and possibly much more).
As a consumer, I do not like carmax for buying cars. As for selling cars, most salespeople in the DC area will refer there customers to carmax...
The niche that carmax fills is for the people that do not neotiate well....you can get a better price there than at most dealers without negotiating.
I'm looking at a 2005 Chevy Colorado Z85 base trim, reg. cab, 4 cyl, 2WD, red, auto tranny, value appearance package which is essentially upgraded alloy wheels and better tires, like new condition, on a dealer's lot and only 2600 miles in Daytona Beach, Florida.
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GM employee price new is $14200, original dealer asking on their website $16500 (LOL at that), over the phone dealer asked if I'd take $13500?
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Just looking for a reasonable retail price......
1) Try to get ahold of them on their phone or at least leave a message. Most wholesalers don't work for just one dealer, just the opposite, they work for themselves. If you get ahold of them, describe the car, get a bid. Wholesalers are just like any other business, they want to buy low and sell high, so often we bump their bid by a couple of hundred if it's a nice or hard to find car.
2) Repeat step 1 with at least 1 or 2 others to see if there is anyone willing to pay more.
Again, I don't know how it works elsewhere, but at least here, on wholesale trades, we are just looking to break even and not lose our shirt. You don't expect the wholesales to make money and the Used Car Manager usually gets his head handed to him if it does as it means that you've lost business (customers) not putting money into trades that needed to be. The average is usually around $200/car for loss on the wholesale side but the meetings are just as bad when the average is $500 or more loss per car.
Hope this helps explain the process a bit more.
Ken
calm down :-) i was just sharing what i thought was an interesting point. i know no one cares what we do, and that most people don't care about you. its the sad unfortunate state of our society today. i just thought it was an interesting fact for those who insist on giving a dealer a "fair" deal of $200 - if you want to haggle a great price, fine - but don't go saying you want us to have a "fair" deal.
unfortunately things have become a dog eat dog kind of environment - some of us (including myself) just need to vent once in a great while, just like consumers do! our forefathers (ha!) in the automotive industry apparently haven't made this easy for the current salespeople - and there really are some good honest people out there working hard to make a living! :-)
its a tough situation that i wish would change for the better - both consumer and sales!
my 2 cents
-thene
There have been some helpful dealer postings on here, and then there are some postings that aren't, and we will never really truly know who is a dealer and who isn't, so, I have a question I hope a true dealer will answer.
First, some background...I have been looking at vehicles for a month, I have driven lots, I have decided I want an SUV, I don't care right now what gas prices are, I have a large car now that sucks gas anyway, I don't have to work outside the home, therefore, my driving is pleasure driving.
My brother is a GM employee, I have not purchased a GM product for the main family transportation, for years. So, would I be wasting my time, going to a dealer during this current sales tactic, getting an offer on my trade in, then saying to the dealer, wait, add another $1000.00 to that offer on my trade in, and we have a deal, or I will just wait until this "sale" is over, get the GM Family certificate from my brother, and hope the rebates increase drastically.
I figure with the vehicle I am looking at now, the rebate will go to about what it was before this sale, which is about $1000.00 more than now, I get a vehicle now, and the dealer will still be making the same kind of sale as in August. This is a risk on my part, by waiting, but, I am patient, I have a good car now, but, I would like a new one, because in 4 years, we have to start paying off tuition loans, so, buy now instead of later.....
Or, would I just be wasting my breath, would you dealers on here, just not like that offer at all?
it really is a crap shoot whether the rebates will change after the sale is over - in fact, GM may even carry it over AGAIN! you just dont know. i think (to be honest with you) that GM may have opened a can of worms with the employee pricing sales event - kind of like the 0% after 9/11.
i guess it depends on whether you NEED a car now (which you said you dont) or not. you can wait, see if rebates go up - especially when the 06 models come out...
dealers usually dont know ahead of time about rebates/incentives (at least here at nissan we dont - i imagine its the same with all other companies...)
i hope that helps just a little even!
-thene
I think you may have misunderstood Stanley's intent regarding owner expenses. My take on it was that owner expenses can be "creatively" charged against the business thereby inflating overhead and the $1900 per unit break-even point.
james
(a finance/accounting professional)
p.s. I recognize that Stanley's posts may come across as offensive to those of you in the business, but he is generalizing. That's his opinion and that's ok. To denigrate him in your reply is personalizing and that's not ok.
Yeah, it is a risk, and one dealer I am looking at down here, has 32 of the vehicles I want, where other dealers have about 5 -8. I know I won't lose too much, if I wait and the rebates aren't any better. His dealership told me to wait for August, which is no problem, since I won't be buying from them anyway, they are 1100 miles from me, but, they have been very helpful. I guess I will wait, and try not to put many more miles on my current vehicle.....
Thanks
We offered him $15,000 for it. I don't know how much those go new, but I bet it was a whole heckuva lot more than $15,000.
The customer was, of course, upset. I told him he could thank GM's pricing scheme for devaluing his used Trailblazer.
This whole thing will come back to bite GM on the derriere, just as it did with Mitsubishi.
Better do some research on the forums here.................
Many unhappy owners........No wonder the dealers are cutting each others
throats to unload those dogs.
There was a post around here that nissan has a 135+ day supply of 04s.
Good Luck..............
I guess you have such a good relationship with them they trust your verbal description to them.
My salute to the dealers who try to be straightforward and eschew last minute surprises and adjustments.
If you keep it 4-5 years, it will even out.
Terry.
Dealers do it every day, customers, just a few times in their lifetime. The customer's only real (very powerful indeed) tool is option to walk out and go elsewhere. So how to defeat it? Get him/her to commit their time and emotions. So, tell me after two hours of price haggling, one hour over $399 fee, one hour over the trade, one hour over extender warranty, they tell you the car was just coated with paint sealant and seat protection for only $499. Is walking out really an option after ruined Saturday? Low-haggle starts looking very good, even if Mr. Smith thought he was such a good negotiator (he also thinks he is good somewhere else, but ask Mrs. Smith what she thinks
2018 430i Gran Coupe
A novice negotiator going against an experienced negotiator is gonna lose pretty much every time too, just like Andorra. The novice needs to figure out what they bring to the table and leverage that to their advantage.
The problem isn't experience, its that too many car buyers have committed emotionally to the purchase before the first dollar is spent. They just gotta have that new car, with the sat nav and heated steering wheel and speakers in the seats. An experienced salesperson can smell the passion before the customer makes it back to the showroom.
There is NO EXCUSE for any buyer to not know his numbers before he goes shopping. There is a ton and a half of price info on the web. A day or two of local shopping will tell you where the market is on a particular car or truck. From there you ought to know what you can get it for, within a few hundred bucks.
Anyone who spends hour after hour after hour buying a car, dealing with all the stuff the dealer throws at them, deserves to get reamed. Their lack of preparation and self control is what doomed them. Go into the process knowing everything you need to know and the experience will be quick and painless.
The rest would be better off in shopping mall type of environment (even if we think we would not), where prices are basically fixed and competitive shopping is based on fully disclosed terms (Circuit City or SEARS guy will tell you exactly what the price on that fridge is, even over the phone, he might even prompt you to come next week because it will likely be on sale). There is no "come to the store and we will talk".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Try to take it easy this weekend... relax... unwind.
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My question for the poor slobs selling domestic cars is this, Are you selling cars for alot less that you were before?
On average I doubt that they are selling cars for alot less than before. What this does do however is remove the possibility of the home run, which is the holy grail of the salesperson just like it is the ballplayers.
There are some corrosive elements to this strategy.
Salespeople tend to take the path of least resistance, if your in a giveaway mode you tend to stay there. If a salesperson knows going in that all he's going to make is a mini, he's not going to want to spend one more minute than is necessary w/ a customer because there is no profitable reason for him to do so. He wants to get in front of as many people as possible. So if he senses that you are not here to buy today or have any issues at all he probably will want to dismiss you as soon as possible. For someone used to more solicitious treatment this could be upsetting.
Second, dealers will still try to find a way to improve the bottom line. The most obvious tactic will be to lower trade in values in an effort to steal some cars for the used car lot.
$15,000.? .. You guys must have the only working crystal ball on the planet ... because nobody knows how, when or how much it will effect the used car market .. what's the difference in the price whether they "pop" a $3,000 rebate or they sell the vehicle for "net".? ..... for $15,0 that musta been a base 2wd with bad breath ..l.o.l.....
Remember, the Lord hates a coward ................... :shades:
Terry.
But the cemetaries are full of over-aggressive used car managers.
A little information is dangerous - and too much is never enough.!
Terry
Unless your trade-in has a buyer to match with, a used car lot will more than likely be selling your trade-in at a wholesale used car auction. Knowing what the wholesale market will bear will undoubtedly determine what your trade-in is worth to the dealer.
It really depends on the dealer as to what they use as a guide, but keep in mind that in all cases, they are just that.... A Guide.... When and if KBB, Black Book, etc have the option to "sell it now" on their site at the prices listed, they should all be taken with a grain of salt both directions.
Hope this helps.
Ken
To get the ultimate sales experience.............Stop by on a nice SLOW
Tues. or Wed.................
Nobodys in a rush.............Plenty of time to get a great presentation, all your
questions answered and most likely a good deal................
YMMV................... :shades:
If you feel the way that you do, just buy a slighty used car from an individual and bypass the dealers all together.
I don't know why you make it so hard on yourself. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a car from several of the "straight shooter" guys here like Isell, rroyce10, etc...
If you decide to go the NEW car route, use the "Bobst" method..... figure out an "OTD" price, submit it, then leave if they don't take it. No skin off your nose!
My .02, Mark
This is true .. it's the reading and the understanding part you gotta get right .......
Terry.
It was mentoned by a poster that dealers admit to doing the following senario to people intentionally... ""Get him/her to commit their time and emotions. So, tell me after two hours of price haggling, one hour over $399 fee, one hour over the trade, one hour over extender warranty, they tell you the car was just coated with paint sealant and seat protection for only $499. Is walking out really an option after ruined Saturday?""
Here is a little message to dealers out there. I would watch what you do to people. Some people may not tolerate this kind of treatment. Your instints may not be sharp enough to tell you who you can do this to, or you can't do this to.
Do this to the wrong person or a family member of the wrong person and there could very well be repercussions that would put a sour taste in your mouth. Watch the news.
But I'll bite on this one.
"Get him/her to commit their time and emotions. [..] after two hours of price haggling, one hour over $399 fee..."
When I read this, it was not clear to me at first who "he/she" is -- the salesman or the buyer. Of course it's the buyer because of the "emotions" part, but it cuts both ways. A salesperson does NOT want to spend 4 hours with a customer, then blow them out. They would rather make a mini than not have a deal at all.
Which is precisely why there is 'advice' out there [Remar Sutton's book as an example] telling people to do just that ... get the salesperson all wound up in the deal, then grind the price down.
I see this as stupid and wasteful from either side of the desk, and I won't allow myself to be drawn into this nonsense. But not because of threat of physical violence or whatever the heck the "repercussions" might be. I don't think an independent used-car dealer would have time for this nonsense either, it's at the large dealerships where the salesperson is required to put up with it or use the tactic themselves.
It's idiotic, but it is not immoral or illegal.
So what the heck are you trying to say.. "Watch the news"? What? Someone goes postal and it's the dealer's fault? Is that it?
-Mathias
If you've done your homework and research, you should already know what your trade is worth and what the market is for the car you're trying to buy. If the person on either side of the desk is adversarial, it's going to be painful....and it doesn't have to be that way.
If you're afraid of the F&I office or "fees", then just make your OTD offer. You're either close (I define close within $250), or you're not. Or, in bobst case, you just move on to another dealer if your OTD offer is rejected. How long can that possibly take? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? 15 minutes? IMHO, it should take longer for the PDI than it takes to negotiate. Otherwise, someone isn't doing their job correctly....either the customer or the sales staff.
If you're spending much longer than that at the negotiating desk, then the deal is going to get too convoluted anyway.
The devil is in the details. How does the car look? What is the retail market and the demand for the vehicle? And that varies substantially from city to city and state to state.
The Black Book is a useful tool but NOT some kind of pricing bible as it is made out to be.
Terry
When I did the deal on my Dodge I went to the dealership with the printouts from KBB and Edmunds for the trade-in on my then car, a Nissan Altima. The sales rep low-balled me on the trade-in, citing the Black Book. In response I showed him the KBB and Edmunds trade-in values. He didn't budge. It was only until I started walking out of the dealership that he "saw the light", so to speak and the deal gone done.
A month or so ago, I traded in my Dodge for a Honda Accord. Once again I assembled printouts from KBB and Edmunds on the trade-in value. The Honda dealer was within $100.00 of KBB and Edmunds. I knew he wasn't try to hose me down, so the deal was quickly made. No Black Book nonsense from the Honda dealership.
The Black Book---just another weapon in the arsenal of unscrupulous dealers that we consumers don't have access to.
Give me a break! What garbage!!
Black Book Guides
National Auto Research
2620 Barrett Road
P. O. Box 758
Gainesville, GA 30503
Telephone: (770) 532-4111
(800) 554-1026
www.blackbookusa.com
It is available to anyone who is willing to shell out the $60 or $70 a year to pay for it.
I know that shoots down that conspiracy.
The Black Book---a for-pay weapon in the arsenal of unscrupulous dealers, that somehow negates the no-cost sources of information, that we consumers do have access to.
Why is information that is paid for somehow more valuable or accurate than that which is not paid for? Give me a break.
Is the sales data mentioned at Mannheim Auto Auction Web site available to anyone on the net?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,