By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
It's funny because former Subaru owners have mixed feelings about these boy-racers picking up WRXs, it has definitely changed the demographics a little. We were a quirky, loyal group, not a yellow sticker in sight (LOL), and some of the newbies don't seem to fit in. AWD is about control, not car abuse.
Or maybe I'm just geezin'. ;-)
-juice
Just like in court, on this I'm speaking generally and I'm sure there are exceptions. In stock class, where I've seen most of the WRXs, intakes, exhaust and even tire/wheel sizes are restricted to stock items, so the modification issue is out.
If they do make a difference, is the reaction uniform across all makes, or some more than others.
I've been shopping for a new car for a while, and find some stores (mostly Toyotas, and some Hondas) are all pressure and hard sell tactics. These makes surely can't be doing anything about bad CSI's from buyers.
Comments?
How do all these people with no car business experience get so much experience?
All that said, if you abuse or neglect your car you shouldn't expect your warranty to bail you out when the car goes poof.
-Jason
You don't have to be in the business to tell that the CSIs are more important to Infiniti than they are to Ford or Chevy.
Can you explain how Ford and Chevy gauge customer satisfaction without asking the customer? Maybe they sample a small portion of buyers and extrapolate it. Why, when you could just survey all of them and get a REAL picture?
I guess most manufacturers know that giving handouts is just as important to the dealers as it is to the customers. Afterall, a dealer (meaning all of those that work for them) that is happy means that (in theory) the customer will be happy also. IMHO
You'd better believe that GM and DCC stores care about their CSI scores - there's a lot at stake. Since you have no first hand knowledge of what's important inside a dealership, and many people here do, I don't think this is place to "take charge" and "tell people how it is".
Does anyone besides me find that annoying, borderline unethical? I mean, they are doing it to boost their scores, aren't we supposed to fill out the surveys honestly?
I've had 2 salesmen tell me (not ask) point-blank to give them the best scores in every category.
I do fill out the surveys, but honestly, not with straight-As just because they say so. How else will they ever know where to improve?
-juice
They, too, asked me strongly to give them the best scores. They ended up with terrible scores because I was lied to and generally treated poorly.
Now, their service department is great and is working with me to handle two problems that I've been back 5 times for in 3,300 miles! They'll get great scores.
In sales, we used to ask consumers to bring the forms in - not to fill them out. "Don't worry about taking time with that, just bring the form by and we'll give you a free oil change". Right or wrong, that's the way we did it.
-juice
Of course, if we applied that reasoning to restaurants, I'd only be eating at the Black Pearl Chinese restaurant. I love that place. But, I think I'd get sick of it after a while.
Fact is, you seldom have nothing but excellent retail experiences, but people are OK with that. That's why costco is so popular.
Seems to me Manufacturers need to change the way they view CSI, and use it as a tool to really improve dealership experiences, instead of just determining who gets which bonus.
andre: I admitted that maybe I was just one of the ones that didn't get a survey.
ateixeira: I don't think anyone is just going to give them excellents because they are told to if they really had a problem. However, It does let you know how important it is to them. Does Ford or Chevy send those letters out?
Of course, I've never gone in to write up the deal with someone who I've never had contact before. Usually, it's been weeks of e-mail/phone calls and at least one visit before hand to take the car out for a drive to make I like it, fits in the Garage, etc.
On my recent Tahoe purchase, the F&I guy was extremely defensive about questions I had about the differences once I got in there. I think it was more that I caught some legitimate mistakes and wanted an explanation about some other things that were different than that he was trying to rip me off.
Fortunately, they actually ran by deal by another F&I guy when they saw how frustrated I was becoming. Overall, I think they were working pretty hard to make sure it was a good experience. Of course, I did note the F&I experience on the survey and told my salesman so.
With Ford we are not allowed to ask customers to bring in the survey. We are not allowed to tell customers that our compensation is affected by the survey. We are not allowed to offer anything in return for perfect marks on a survey. We are not allowed to show a customer an example of a filled-out survey.
All we can do is encourage the customer to send in the survey when they get it.
Sounds to me that Ford takes their surveys a lot more seriously than Infiniti does.
When I mentioned on the phone that I was going to have trouble giving them top marks on the survey, they told me to come pick up the car - they had no intention of working on it.
Only after calling the Chevy 800 number did they reluctantly service the car - under the condition that I never return to that dealership.
GM is starting to get the product right, but they need some serious work on their dealer network.
That is amazing to me.
Not forgiving whatever happened to incense the customer - I know from experience in service, once they're to that point, there's absolutely nothing you can do to make them happy and protect CSI.
Again, though, I guarantee there's more to this story.
Invoice according to Edmunds is 24,800
Rebates to customer is $2500
This truck is a demo and has 5000 miles on it. It is oxford white with 5.4L V8
The price they are quoting me is $20700
Is this a good price? Could I do better. I have only seen one dealer so far. Thanks for the input.
Joe.
I have a 2000 GMC Yukon that I bought brand new, and I love it. Best vehicle that I've ever owned. After about 12 months, it began to idle really, really slow when coming to a stop (like at a stop sign or in a parking lot). Often times the truck would cut off completely. There was another problem with the a/c blower fan squeaking, and the cabin got wet when the a/c drain line got stopped up.
My experience with dealer was: Took truck in. No loaner. He had to order parts. Bring it back in week.
2nd time. Took truck in. They ordered the wrong a/c blower fan, and found out they couldn't just replace the sensors on the throttle body, they had to replace entire throttle body. Grrr. Back in another week or two.
@ gasket for the throttle body. Now I'm getting kinda ticked. Back in another week.
4th time. FINALLY everything is fixed. a/c fan works okay, throttle body is replaced.
I'm not a "complainer", so I didn't complain to the service manager to dealership owner. I didn't call GMC and complain. I just let it go. But...a few weeks later, I get a survey form from GMC asking about my experience. Boy, did I let them have it! Like I say, I'm not a complainer by nature...BUT DON'T ASK ME MY OPINION IF YOU DON'T WANT IT! I figured since they sent me a survey, I sure as heck wasn't going to lie. I was going to tell them exactly what I thought of their incompetant service dept.
I ended up getting 2 oil changes for free. Whoopie!
So my question is....how does something like this affect the dealer? Do they get hammered for it; or is it "ahhh...who cares?"
That is a big leap to say "the guy threatened to hammer them on the survey, whether they deserved it or not"
I didn't hear lanzz even imply that he would give them bad marks even if they didn't deserve it. I heard him say that he was going to have a hard time giving them high marks BECAUSE they DID deserve it.
Why do you leap to such a conclusion?
Like I said, though, I guarantee there's more to the story. A dealership doesn't tell a guy to come pick up his car and never come back without a reason - and it had very little to do with the survey-related phone call.
I'ld like to hear their side of this one!
It takes a lot more than not liking the way a customer parts their hair to broom them out the door. In fact, considering literally thousands of customers I've dealt with in sales and service, I can count on one hand the number of people I've chosen NOT to do business with.
I'd like to hear from that service department, too.
Kinda like when the guy tells the cops "I was just hanging out, minding my own business, and you guys came up and arrested me". - Yeah, right.
In 20 years in the biz I can think of maybe 8-10 customers that were asked to leave and never return.
People don't get treated like that when they're nice and cooperative, whether you buy what the dealer is selling or not.
My experience allows me to read between the lines better than most - you'll notive the guy who posted that isn't in here arguing his side.....
The car was under warranty, and I was having trouble with the A/C, where it dripped water into the interior whenever it was on. It made a very large puddle of water inside the car
every time the A/C was used. Also asked to have a burned out brake light be replaced.
1) Went to have car serviced on Mon 9/9/02, was told to come back with an appointment so I could get the "proper treatment" Said ok, and called to make an appointment for the following day. (other Manhattan dealerships do not take or require appointments, so I figured I would take a chance on this...)
2) Took the car in on Tues 9/10/02 and dropped it off at 8:30am. Was told that they might not get to the car until afternoon, so call then for an update.
3) Called at 1:30pm, was told car had not been looked at yet. Told to call back at 4:30pm.
4) Called at 4:30pm, told the car had not been looked at yet. Told to call back tomorrow.
5) Called at noon on Weds 9/11/02, was told the car had not been looked at yet. At this point, they had the car for a day and a half, with no diagnosis yet. So I asked when the service advisor thought they would be able to look at the car. He replied " I don't know, we are backed up." So I said "Then why I did I need to make an appointment?" I was told "An appointment gets you in the door, not a guarantee of service." So I said, " I guess I cannot give you the highest survey rating, because I am not satisfied with the service you are providing." The service advisor replied "Then come pick up your car, I am not working on it." An then he hung up on me.
6) I called the service advisor back, and asked him to transfer me to the general manager. He initially refused, and then put me on hold for eternity.
7) I called the Chev 800 number, explained the situation and she called Potamkin right then. The service advisor informed the 800 number operator that I had pine needles in the A/C and it would be $100 to fix.
8) I explained to the operator that I believed it to be a warranty issue. He refused to consider it a warranty issue. Then, the 800 operator was informed that they would repair the car under warranty only under the condition that I never return because I had "threatened" the service advisor. I agreed, and explained that I would be very happy to not return to Potamkin.
9) Potamkin called 15 minutes later and said the car was ready.
10) When I arrived to pick up the car, they made me wait 45 minutes for it.
So, to the people on the board who believe there is something sinister behind my story, I invite your further comment. My frustration could be summed up as follows:
a) An appointment was required, yet my car was not looked at for a day and a half, and I have no reason to believe it would have been looked at on the second day if I had not made an issue of it. And then it took all of 15 minutes to diagnose and repair!
b) I was treated like an idiot and a nuisance by the dealership, and I do not believe I did anything to deserve it.
c) I only played the survey card when the guy stonewalled me on when the car would be looked at - a day and half after dropping it off with an appointment.
d) There was never even am attempt to satisfy me after I made my frustration know - I was branded a problem and banished from the place.
e) They made sure not to fix the brake light, since I am guessing that any repair order would have resulted in a survey being generated - they made sure I did not get one.
Believe me, I would have happily paid for the reapir at a courteous and honest dealership,
and I do not get my jollys by hassling people in auto service departments. Life is too short - even explaining this is probably not a healty exercise, but I was the one that opened the door.
Regards,
Ed
When you drop your car off, you have to deal with the fact that they've got a full schedule ahead of you, based on appointments that were already made by their other customers.
As it turns out, you had pine needles in you a'c system, not a warranty item by any account and you threatened the service advisor with a bad survey.
I would have asked you to pick up your car, too.
Sorry for the brutal honesty, but complaining that you can't get put to the head of the line, ahead of everyone else, for removing pine needles from your air conditioning...then dogging the service advisor and calling Chevrolet - that's WAY out of line.
Another note - you're dealing with a large dealer in Manhattan, not Uncle Bubba's Chevrolet in Kansas - these guys actually do have a full schedule and others to take care of.
As hard as it may have been to do, it probably would have been a good idea not to threaten with a poor survey, as that would bring the ire out of the advisor. Most pay plans are linked to survey scores. By mentioning the survey you put the advisor on the defensive and s/he figured it would be better that s/he didn't open a RO and asked you to pick up the car.
I am not defending the dealership as I wasn't there. In the future I suggest to ask your advisor for an approximate completion time, and if it grossly exceeds that time and you don't get a satisfacory response from your advisor, contact the shop foreman or the service manager. Don't threaten with a poor survey it really won't gain you any ground.
Believe me the dealership wants to get your car repaired as fast as possible. It doesn't matter if it is a warranty repair or customer pay.
Have a great day
That's why things don't get done in America - instead of being honest with ourselves and others and taking action when needed, we spend our time having cappuccino, sharing our feelings, having group hugs and inventing new PC catch-phrases -
Sorry, but I'm not jumping onto that bandwagon.
Service experiences at Chevy dealers in the 70's and 80s are a major reason I don't buy GM even though some of their products are attractive; same goes for Chrysler. I've had good luck with Fords (Explorers in the past and two GT Mustangs currently) so I'm not a yuppie snob that's anti- domestics.
I do think the service writer you dealth with is probably over-stressed and your comment about the CSI pushed him past that edge we call, "Don't Give a .... Land."
Still, you were the victim.
Need to get rid of that obsolete Camaro and save up for the new-gen 2005 Mustang!
lanzz is in the right here although it is not a warranty issue. I don't consider the survey comment a threat worth dumping a current and potential future customer for. It should be against any dealer's policy to do that over a survey comment like that.