Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

keitarou · May 2004

Hey guys,

Just a question, Since some of you are dealers here, I just wanted to know what you guys think. If you were buying these cars, which would you choose? Audi A4 1.8T, or Infinity G35X? Thought dealers would know their cars more than others.

Thanks,

Jeremy

bowke28 · May 2004

my choice would be to save money on the badge and go with an altima or jetta. same car, less money.

audia8q · May 2004

I would buy the Audi. The Infiniti will probably be more reliable in the long run....but I like the audi's overall ride and drive. Infiniti's go fast and are very reliable but I just don't care for the ride, seating, ergonomics, etc...We have a 2003 G35 we took in trade that I drove for a week and the longer I had it the less I liked it. Of course it you look at my screen name you will see I am a bit biased.

rroyce10 · May 2004

...... 2 different vehicles doing 2 different things .. the best thing you could is: Drive Both.!

               That doesn't mean around the block with a salesman yacking in your ear .. drop off your license, ins card whatever they think they need .. then do your roads, your streets, your lumps and bumps and see which one "You" like, you should be able to do this for maybe an hour or so ..... your looking at 2 fine vehicles and the only person that will be paying for it will be "You", so make sure "you" like it.!

                   Like I always say: Always buy and drive what YOU like ..... good luck.

                        Terry.

weaselinsuit · May 2004

I wish I had your "dilemma"...

racer63 · May 2004

Two words.

Go away.

I read Edmunds at lunch time for the entertainment value, but this relentless hawking of a silly business model every consumer and dealer here has said is ludicrous has become beyond annoying. Since we all, even me the extremely casual poster, have said you're full of it, now all that you have left is just to get plain nasty and sarcastic? What's the emoticon for "I've run out of evasive rambling answers so I'll just be obnoxious? Smileys just aren't appropriate.

From the quoted numbers on the Accord deal you're so proud of, we don't know the trade that was undervalued by $1800, but I see at least $500-1000 left on the table considering all sides of the deal (new car/trade/dealer handling finance) that was consumated at this store. I'm suprised the birdie wasn't an eagle.

This consumer won't be knocking on your door anytime soon.......

volvomax · May 2004

weasel is wrong in this case. A deal isn't binding until a manager has signed off on it.
Even then, there are still conditions that could let either party terminate the contract.
Every four square or write-up sheet that I've seen says that a manager has to accept the deal, not the salesperson.
So do the purchase orders.

Sometimes people do make mistakes. There are so many programs out now for cars that it can be confusing for management let alone salespeople.
But, if you feel that this mistake was part of a deception or misleading effort by the salesperson than shop elsewhere.

bill100 · May 2004

Two words for you!

Make me!

We both have our opinions and I will respect yours.

As for this National Cash Reward Program of $10000 can anyone in here explain how it works and why is it a scam?

Thanks Bill

perna · May 2004

The National Cash Reward program is easy to explain. To be eligible, you must have a concept that involves matching up car dealers and buyers. Then, regardless of how stupid it is, you must take your idea personally to the South Pole, where a linguistically-talented polar bear will then pay you $10,000.

gtahobe · May 2004

I agree with you guys about the reverse action thing, but Perna, that was just cruel.

bill100 · May 2004

I read once that 1 satisfied customer on average will tell 8 people about your services or product if they feel happy about the transaction.

The example you all provided where a salesman will tell a buyer one thing and then all of a sudden it changes once the manager gets wind of it seems to happen alot in the United States.

As a dealer, why is it they would take the risk of loosing 8 or more potential buyers just to make sure this 1 car deal does not go through so they don't loose any money even though it was the dealerships fault for making the claim in the first place?

Seems to me they would loose alot more money in the long run by running off a "upset" car buyer who then goes and tells so many other car buyers currently looking to buy what the dealer had done to them.

Just my opinion. According to dealers on this board there is not much money to be made in new car sales. So why worry about 1 car deal?

Bill

weaselinsuit · May 2004

I think it depends upon the facts of the situation.

If you read my post, I acknowledge that if the ostensible authority of the salesman is contradicted by a clear sign by the dealer, i.e. a sign saying manager must sign off on all deals, the salesman says the manager must sign off on all deals or the customer is presented with paper that says manager must sign off on all deals, BEFORE, the salesman quotes a price, then yes you're right.

However I thought the example given was that he was quoted a price by the salesman which was later retracted by the manager. In this situation, there was, at least theoretically, an enforceable contract. (Enforcing it practically, well, as I mentioned, have fun with that)

It doesn't matter if it goes against the dealership policy, the salesman will be assumed to have authority to bind the dealer unless that assumption is rebutted in some fashion by the dealer prior to any price commitments being made by the salesman.

719b · May 2004

we've all seen many postings from consumers that claim they were given a price for a particular car and when it's time to settle up, the dealership changes the terms.
this may be the fallout of a salesman over stepping his authority.
the average consumer isn't aware that the sales manager has to sign off on every deal... he assumes the salesman does.
the above example is probably why so many feel they were scammed.

greeniis · May 2004

Our credit is excellent.The salesperson told her manager what she told us. All he said was sorry. Mistakes happen. I got alittle upset. Why have sales people if what they tell you is useless?
I blame the internet manager. He dropped the ball. He gave her our name and it must be not much else.
She was new. Had 3 weeks training. I asked why was she on the sales lot if she wasn't ready? No answer. Just that it takes time and mistakes to be a good salesperson!!!!
There are no signs that say anything about what the salesperson tells you. I believe they were trying to hustle me.
I have wrote to the owner and left phone messages, but no reply yet. I won't hold my breath waiting.
Thanks for the replies.

rroyce10 · May 2004

...... Salesman don't have any decision making process for "any" approvals or make any final financial decisions in a dealership, most can't even sign for a gas ticket .....

Like you said: ** Enforcing it practically, well, as I mentioned, have fun with that **

Terry.

bobst · May 2004

The deal is not complete until you give them the money and they give you the car. Up to that point, both you and the dealer have the right to pull out of the deal.

I was buying a new car once and even had the new key on my key chain. They tried to change the price on me. I didn't get the least bit upset. I gave them back their key, walked out, and bought a car somewhere else.

Like the great Ronald Reagan once said, "Vote with your feet."

rroyce10 · May 2004

.... ** Like the great Ronald Reagan once said, "Vote with your feet **

I'm a big fan of his, Did he really say that.?

Terry.

keitarou · May 2004

Thanks everyone for the input regarding the cars. Now i have another question. Does the dealer service department make any money on recall repairs? Are recalls something dealers in generally don't like to do when they can spend more time servicing something they can make money on? It's just that i have a recall on my 98 honda accord and one dealer after telling them it's a recall, told me that they had no space until June. I wonder if they would do that for a 90K mile service.

steine13 · May 2004

Listen to Terry ... buy and drive what YOU like.
Don't listen to bowke on this one... the A4 is NOT on the same platform as the Jetta (the TT is, though) and the G35 has not much in common with the Altima (RWD vs. FWD, for one thing).

I would offer this: If you want AWD, narrow your choices to Audi and Subaru. If RWD is okay -- and it is, unless you live north of the 45th -- give the regular G35 a shot... sweet car, by all accounts. Both of these have their fans. Just make sure you don't buy them on a Camry budget. In the end, you'll pay to play, one way of the other.

-Mathias

keitarou · May 2004

Thanks for your input. I am actually thinking of leasing the cars and since i live in NY i don't think RWD would be too practical for me. Don't get me wrong, RWD are fine but i've been dreaming about a AWD for so long that i thought i'd take this chance to get one.

One thing that is against the G35x is that it's only available in an Auto. But since i live in the city, i thought i can live with it. But as Terry said, i will take the cars for a drive without the salesman. That is if there are dealers in my area that are willing to let me test drive alone.

Leasing alone is a tough job... so let's see how this turns out. Thanks.

mark48186 · May 2004

Correct me if I'm wrong, but every magazine I've read said the G35 is a re-skinned 350Z. It's in no way related to the Altima.

suvshopper4 · May 2004

"Like the great Ronald Reagan once said, "Vote with your feet."
I'm a big fan of his, Did he really say that.?
Terry

If yours was a serious question, then...
Yeah. I think it was when he was governor and overhauled the California welfare laws.
He said those who didn't like the new law could "vote with their feet."

Talk about telling someone to get outta town.

Regards,
-ss4

kyfdx · May 2004

Its the G35 coupe that is the re-skinned 350Z. Also, lengthened wheelbase to fit that little back seat in there. Same engines in coupe, sedan, and Z though..with a few little tweaks, here and there.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · May 2004

If you want upscale AWD, I agree with Mathias.. The Audi is the way to go... Since you also want a manual shift, its a no-brainer.. and you are leasing on top of it, so no out of warranty worries. I think they made the A4 specifically for you!!

regards,
kyfdx

jwats · May 2004

You might want to look at the O5 Subaru which will arrive at dealers later this month--much higher quality interior, 250 HP turbo engine, stick shift and a great price

steine13 · May 2004

A compassionate conservative! -m

bowke28 · May 2004

all use the same frame. they also all use the same engine with different tuning. they also use the same 2 auto xmissions, and very similar dash/interior setups.

an altima 3.5 SE-R is about a $28k front-driver with 250 HP and a 6-speed manual. thats why i compared it.

fredvh · May 2004

Is the Infiniti I35 included in your above post?

bowke28 · May 2004

the I35 is on the previous maxima platform. but i did forget to include the M45 and QX 35/45.

ronstoy · May 2004

I was just curious about how many buyers just walk in the dealership and pay MSRP for a vehicle with no questions asked?

rinebird · May 2004

I asked for an OTD price. I asked why is it 400 over invoice? I was told it is $200 over invoice. I was then told that I was charged a $200 Assessment Fee charged the dealer in Philadelphia ,Pa .I live in NJ. Do I have to pay that?I had them fax me the proof. It is on the invoice. Thanks

grapevinetx · May 2004

Rinebird, if I understand your post correctly, I think you've answered your own question. You negotiated an out-the-door (OTD) price, which means the total amount that you would pay to get the car, the price of the car plus all taxes, fees and charges. Exactly the right way to negotiate, IMO. Then you obtained an itemized list of what your OTD price will be spread over and you want to know whether you have to pay all the fees? Well, assuming that you haven't yet signed a loan agreement or taken posession of the vehicle, you don't HAVE to do anything. But if you want to proceed with the purchase, the fair thing to do is to pay the agreed upon OTD price and let the dealer break it up into whatever fees he wants to.

volvomax · May 2004

bill,
I said there were 2 possibilities
1 the salesman made an honest mistake, not hard to do given all the incentive programs out there and all their conditions.
2 the salesman out and out lied.
As far as managements response:
A manager must judge each deal on its own merits, not worrying about whether or not this customer is going to badmouth them all over town.

MSRP cars.
For much of the past year and a half the XC90 was an MSRP only car. We let all our prospects know this up front. Some didn't like it, but most understood and bought the car based on its merits.
There are still cars out there that command MSRP or more.

kkollwitz · May 2004

I learned from a greenpea car salesman yesterday about a sales technique he's learning called the "box close." Do any of the salesmen on the board use it? How well does it work?

audia8q · May 2004

if you worry about "out the door" numbers then fees and such become a non-issue. The dealer does not have to "prove" anything to you. The only thing you have to do is offer $xxxxx out the door....either thay take the deal or they tell you to go buy the car elsewhere.

weaselinsuit · May 2004

I hear you about the salesman's authority or lack there of, unfortunately however, in law, if the salesman appears to convey to the customer that he can offer the vehicle at a certain price, then the dealership would be stuck with it, theoretically anyway. The salesman acts as the dealer's agent. That's why its key for a dealer to make sure that his salespeople are telling customers "I think I can get you this price but I'll have to check with the boss". Of course, everyone hates that line and thinks it's a ploy.....

driftracer · May 2004

is used when the salesman and closer can't land a customer on numbers, but they think they may have a deal, and the send the customer to the F&I guy (hopefully the best closer in the store) for a last shot. They put them "in the box" (the F&I office).

As a former F&I guy, I've done many box closes, but many have floundered, as well.

rroyce10 · May 2004

...... ** then the dealership would be stuck with it, theoretically anyway **

Well, you have the *theoretically* part down .. salesman can't sign the sales order and they can't tattoo the financial papers .. it's been tried a few hundred times and it goes nowhere in a big fat hurry, especially when you drop 3,500 contracts in front of a judge and it shows a pattern of 3,500 signatures from the management .. sorry, but that dog just won't hunt.

Terry

bowke28 · May 2004

if a customer can unwind a deal at will, then a dealer can too.

weaselinsuit · May 2004

I hear you, I was simply stating what the law is on ostensible versus actual authority. As the guys/gals in the robes keep telling me, each case is fact specific.

mitzij · May 2004

The dealer does make money doing recalls, though usually not as much as customer-pay work. There are a few possiblities as to why you have to wait till June.
a. the shop is booked up solid till June.
b. parts aren't available yet.
c. the shop caters to people who bought their vehicle there and pushes off 'non-buyers' a couple of weeks. I think this is a faulty way of doing business, but many shops operate this way.

ldbricker · May 2004

should I choose my customer who bought from me and is more likely to buy from me again or should I choose the person who bought elsewhere and is less likely to buy from me next time. I see it as faulty to not make the latter wait and put my customer first. I'm open to hearing why it's faulty to do otherwise but can't see it at this point.

isellhondas · May 2004

Never heard of this, at least where I work.

driftracer · May 2004

"putting them in the box" - only refers to a deal that the salesmen hasn't closed, but potential is there.

mitzij · May 2004

I can see, if the shop is swamped with business, a regular customer would be put in line ahead of a nonregular customer. However, most shops are not so swamped, and some of my regulars have never bought a car here. Some shops automatically bump non-buyers ahead a week or two even if the week's schedule is as barren as the Sahara. A couple of weeks ago a lady came in with her security light coming on after she shut off her new car. I spent 5 minutes explaining that it was normal. Later a salesman came by and told me I should have 'Sent her back to Smedley's where she bought it' Maybe next time she wants a new car, she'll come here instead of an hour away. Everyone who comes in here needing a car worked on is my customer. We can't afford to treat a cavalier owner badly because a corvette owner is next in line. The cavalier guy might want to buy a corvette one of these days.

ldbricker · May 2004

story and it would be stupid to tell them come in a week or two later. I meant if the schedule is full and I'm having to set appointments for everyone then I'm working my buyers in ahead of non-buyers. I do agree that anyone could be a future sale however I'm prioritizing by past purchases when required.

mitzij · May 2004

zeitgeber · May 2004

I'm thinking about doing the following, and I'm looking for someone to step in and either say "What in the heck is wrong with you?" or "Go for it". Numbers are still being negotiated.

Trade my base model 2002 Subaru Outback (39K miles) for $14K on a 2001.5 VW Passat (certified, 39K miles) being sold for $16K.

I have the title for the Outback that I paid $25K for new (0% interest family loan!), and I also have an extended warranty for 4 yrs/80K mi that I could transfer if I sold it privately. It's in very good condition, and I've seen similar cars retailing for $15K - $18K.

The decision obviously isn't financial, it's based more on the fact that I think life's too short to drive a car you don't enjoy. What I'm struggling with is whether I should do the trade and take a hit, or go through the effort (and taxes on the Passat) of selling privately. My head tells me to keep the Subaru since it's covered, but my heart tells me to get the car I wanted in the first place. How stupid would I be to trade the Outback?

ldbricker · May 2004

than a VW, IMO. I'd keep the Outback.

bowke28 · May 2004

we all know that...but he is wanting to buy on emotion, the car he actually wants. i think a honda civic is the best overall vehicle in the world as far as quality, but i dont want one.

if you want the car, the first thing i would do is cancel the extended warranty. they will refund a pro-rated portion of it. then trade it or sell it. but dont let the availability of this specific passat make you do anything stupid. there will be more like it in the future.

remember...the 2001s and 2002s are coming off lease now. MANY will be around.

Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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