Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

tincup47 · May 2002

on any item requires full disclosure of terms, regardless of what you are buying. That is a Federal requirement. Check out your Best Buy or Circuit City ads, they have the same fine print for finance terms.

catam · May 2002

Even if you can't decipher everything the fast talker is saying, the fact that he is taking ought to clue you in to the fact that the real terms are not quite as great as the rest of the ad makes it seem. Anyone with half a brain, should at least look at it as a buyer beware.

My current favorite along these lines that I hear daily is "We'll pay off your trade no matter how much you owe!!!"
Then the disclaimer guy quickly says later "Negative equity applied to new loan balance."

masspector · May 2002

I can see where you are coming from. But if the buyer is coming in off the ad and really did not want the ad car to start with, then what made them come in off the ad?

You said "If I advertised the Focus with air and automatic that most people want you know what I get? People telling me that ABC Ford has one advertised for $2000 less (of course it has no air and 5 speed)". I may have given joe public too much credit on intelligence here. I was assuming that someone could look inside a car window and see if a car has air and an automatic. Or at least know that for $2000 difference something is missing off of the cheaper car.

tincup47 · May 2002

Unfortunately, most people believe there is much more markup in Automobiles than there really is. Some actually think it is like other retail business that have 50-100% markup, so thousands of dollars difference are seen as price gouging, not content difference. As i have heard in the past "No one has ever gone broke underestimating the intelligence of the average consumer".

landru2 · May 2002

"Or at least know that for $2000 difference something is missing off of the cheaper car."

Yes, you'd think that would be the case but years of experience have shown me otherwise. Tincup hit it right. Most shoppers will assume the advertised car's price will apply to whatever it is they want and will view any differences in advertised prices to differences in mark-up rather than equipment. Hence, the lowest prices possible in ads.

suzzann · June 2002

Landru, you're right. I've had friends make that mistake many times. Even when they are shown the ad's fine print, they want to know why they can't get the car they want for the same price.

There was a great one in last week's paper. A local Toyota dealer advertised he would beat any advertised price. The fine print read "excludes $399 doc fee..."; when I bought my Subaru the doc fee was less than $150.

frenzycaptain · July 2002

hi I just purchased a new 2002 camry xle and I also just took it back. the night before I saw a nice one price on car was listed as 24,500 I called the dealership that morning and asked the price h told me its 24,500 after that a couple hours later i had a new 2002 camry le i called the dealership that afternoon the price i purchased for the le was 23,000 so i asked the dalership if i could switch that one had tons more options that said ok i came down the sticker price was changed to 28,700. i bought the car anyway cause i loved it but with payments of 650 a month for 5 years i returned it this is a shame these dealers get away with this i was so upset when i asked he said i was lookin at the wrong sticker price what a lie it was the only one there in depressed now what a shame any suggestions please let me know thanks

PAman · July 2002

If you could edit your post, using punctuation and capitolization, it would be easier to understand what you are saying.

Joe

rroyce10 · July 2002

yanker · July 2002

Very interesting topic but the details need to be clearer and sequentially organized

KCRam · July 2002

Saw ad for Camry LE at $24,500, came down next day and bought it. Then saw XLE advertised at $23,000, and wanted to switch because XLE had more options. Upon purchasing XLE, price became $28,700 with 650/month payments. Took XLE, but returned it because it was unaffordable.

Is that what happened, Frenzy?

If so, my first inclination is that you may have misread the XLE's price, since XLEs start at a higher price than LEs. My second guess is, that XLE included a lot of discounts and rebates (college grad, loyalty, erc.) that you may not have qualified for.

Whenever you see an ad price, before committing to the deal, add the rebates back in, as you may not qualify for all of them. Also, rebates are post-tax reductions anyway - they don't lower the price of the car itself; they add to your down payment after the purchase price is established.

kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and FWI Message Boards

P.S. to petrnyc - no foreign-language posts, please. If I can't read it, then I can't do my job.

frenzycaptain · July 2002

jachamp · January 2003

ok...long story short:

i'm at the end of a Ford RCO with an F150 Xcab XLT with the 4.6 V8 and automatic.

i'm been shopping around for a new truck and i know that i've been offered between 12800 and 14000 for the vehicle but the ford dealer where i started bought this one offered me 2250 in "loyalty" rebates.

well..they applied the rebates to the cost of the new f150 (a lesser vehicle than mine in my estimation) and then i noticed that they had lowballed me between 2000 and 2500 on my trade.

i asked about it and they said that since i was in an RCO, that amount didn't matter. to me it does...that's 2000 in positive equity they were trying to con me out of.

i asked for my keys and left without further conversation. i told the salesman's manager that i don't play games or negotiate when he tried to get me to stay in the office by standing in the doorway. i pushed him out of my way.

anyhow...be weary of these new "loyalty rebate" tricks.

thanks!

landru2 · January 2003

I'm not sure what RCO means but it sounds like you are talking about a Red Carpet Lease.

Ford does currently offer lease loyalty rebates. These work like regular rebates where you can get a cheque from Ford or, more commonly, use the amount to reduce the purchse price of the new vehicle.

As for the value of your trade, you'll have to tell us what the current lease buyout amount is.

PAman · January 2003

At least here in Texas, you get nothing in trade for a GM Smart Lease OR Smart Buy because the vehicle automatically goes back to GM.

Now, if you were trying to BUY the truck at the buyout price, then trade it in to the dealer for more than you paid for it, that is a different matter.

One other thing, rather than assuming the dealer was lowballing you on your trade, could it be that the other dealers were INFLATING your trade by using some dealer cash or a rebate to inflate the value of the truck? Granted, the attempt to keep you in the office is a new twist on an old trick (hiding the keys of your trade-in) but you may have been dealing with TWO shady dealers rather than just one.

By the way, just how did the manager try to keep you from leaving? Was he standing in the door and you had to turn sideways to get by him, or did he physically block the entrance? If HE tried to involuntarily keep you from leaving, he may have committed a felony. If YOU physically pushed him, you may have committed battery. Be careful who you physically push around. District attorneys don't take random physical assaults lightly these days.

jachamp · January 2003

ok..trying to answer two with one message here:

landru2: the buyout is 13,500 and i had the dealership my dad works at appraise it at a solid 13,700 not even two weeks before xmas.

i didn't buy anything from them because i don't like toyotas.

PAMan: the reason i care about the trade value (and i live in texas) is because of the equity situation. the $200 i have in positive equity in the vehicle coupled with the $780 i have in mileage credits (i always buy additional miles) comes out to another $1000 down.

as for the keys/let me outta here incident:

the manager blocked the door with his body and then put his hands up and on my chest as i tried to leave. so i pushed his hands to one side and then put my hand on his chest and told him to move.

i'm not an intimidating figure. i'm 5'6" 180 pounds. i'm short and stocky.

at no time did anyone push anyone. he was trying to keep me in that office-esque variation of an aquarium and i didn't want to be in there. mostly because i am claustrophobic.

but i called my dad's dealership and talked to their used car manager and he told me that this is not the first time he's heard of that trick being pulled. in fact, a lot of dealers pull the loyalty rebate trick.

and now i know.

gmanusmc · January 2003

Your original post states "I pushed him out of my way." You now say "at no time did anyone push anyone." Sounds inconsistent to me.

landru2 · January 2003

Please clarify. Your original post talks about $2000 in equity and your last post mentions $200 in equity. What exactly was the dealership going to do with your old lease? Were they going to send it back to Ford or were they going to pay Ford the $13,500 to keep it?

Mileage credits only come into play if the vehicle is sent back to the leasing company, in which case the trade-in value truly doesn't matter.

If, instead, you want to use the vehicle's trade-in equity then you cannot use pre-paid mileage credits as well. Your $13,500 buyout is only $13,500 because of the extra miles you purchased so you are getting the benefit of having purchased them in the form of a lower buyout. If you had not purchased any extra mileage then your buyout would be higher.

I'm still not sure where the "trick" is here. Perhaps someone that knows the programs in Texas can tell us what Ford's lease loyalty rebate on an F-150 is.

anonymousposts · January 2003

The other dealership might have appraised your car high since your Dad works there. Or if they knew what your payoff was they might have offered you a little more under the assumption that they would get it back on the new car. Go to Edmunds TMV or kbb and get the trade price from them. As long as the dealer is within that range I don't see what the problem is.

isellhondas · January 2003

Just sell your truck to the dealership where your dad works. After all, they are the ones who told you what it was worth!

hicaira · January 2003

Why does this guy think he has any "equity" in a leased vehicle? If there is any equity - positive or negative - it is an asset (or liability) of the leassor, not the leassee. Things work different in Texas?

HiC

landru2 · January 2003

You can have equity in a leased vehicle. For example, payout is $20,000 and car's value is $24,000 = $5,000 equity. If the lessee sells the car for $24,000, pays the leasing company $20,000 he will have $5,000 left over.

Who knows what's going in this case. The original poster seems to have vanished.

tronsr1 · January 2003

I always thought 20,000.00 from 24,000.00 was 4000.00???

landru2 · January 2003

You're right tronsr1. for the typo.

dtownfb · January 2003

landru2: haivng a little trouble with addition's tricky cousin subtraction, are we?

It seems to me if he is returning his truck to the dealership at the end of the lease, the maximum the truck is worth to FORD is the residual amount. Just becuase he bought additional miles in his lease (which is a contract) doesn't matter since that should have been taken into account when determining the residual value. The fact that he did not use the extra miles is his own fault not Ford's and they don't owe him a dime.

Now if he were to sell it on his own or trade it at a non-Ford dealership, then i can see him getting more money for it. Say if he went to the chevy dealership, they may offer him $15k for the truck since they want to get him in a Chevy instead of another Ford. Then they send a check for $13.5k to settle the buyout with Ford and he woudl get the remaining amount and most likely apply it to the Chevy truck.

If his turck is truly worth more then the residual, then sell it on your own and send the amount owed to the lease company and pocket the rest.

It sounds like jachamp does not understand how the end of lease thing works and the salesman did not explain it well to him.

There is no excuse for the manager to block from leaving the office. That is rude, unprofessional and gives credence to why some people think so lowly of car salesmen.

My advice to jachamp is if you truly want that equity, hen either sell the truck on your own or buy another brand. If you definitely want another Ford, then forget about the "equity" in your truck and make sure you take full advantage of the lease loyalty program. Make sure you get the full $2250 (or whatever it is ) off the negotiated price of the truck, not the MSRP.

landru2 · January 2003

He wouldn't need to go to a non-Ford dealer to get any equity (if there is any to be had). Ford Credit and the Ford dealer are not the same company. If the Ford dealer wants to put $15,000 into the trade they can pay Ford Credit the $13,500 and use the $1500 as downpayment on a new Ford.

And actually, if he purchased extra miles upfront then he is entitled to a refund for the unused portion. But only if the vehicle goes back to Ford Credit at the end of the lease.

Depending on what his vehicle is actually worth, it may make more sense to send it back and take the mileage credit rather than worrying about equity.

As far as the blocking/pushing incident goes, the original poster's story has had so many inconsistencies and contradictions that there is no sense on speculating about what may have happened.

dtownfb · January 2003

good points landru2.

But I can't see why dealer would take money out of their pocket in that fashion. Here's what I mean. I would discount the cost of the vehicle since you know how much you (the dealership) paid for it and the dealership can still make money on it even if you sell it for under invoice (often $2000-$2500 off MSRP). I guess it all works out the same. it'sup to the finance guys to make it work. Ford Credit still gets it's $13.5k and the consumer gets a discounted price.

joe2617 · February 2003

You would need to buy out your leased vehicle yourself then trade it in. If someone other than you wants to buy out the lease, the originating dealer must o.k. the buyout ammount. They can quote whatever price they want to the other dealer.
If another dealer agrees to buyout the lease they are in for a rude awakening when they attempt to get the title from Ford Motor Credit. Your buyout quote will not fly for the non-originating dealer. If you provide the buyout to them they can come back to you for the additional $$$. Make sure the other dealer has a pay-off quote from Ford Motor Credit with the dealerships name on it.
Unfortunatly, you are most likely going to have to deal with the dealer you stormed out of in one way or another.

rubicon52 · February 2003

rings true. But, if the salesman was actually stupid enough to block his exit, he should have bounced off the saleman, fallen to the floor, and started screaming "my neck, my neck". Especially good if there are witnesses around. May have ended up with the new truck deal of a lifetime.

rroyce10 · February 2003

..... *Always* get your pay-off from the lease co., not the dealer .. the dealer can use any figure, which is fine, it's their store .. but, the dealer has *Nothing* to do with your lease.

        Fomoco will usually negotiate the pay-off with you -if - properly done .. the nice folks that answer the phone, they have no horsepower, they read the summary sheet right off the screen .. you need to be in contact with a district lease Mgr or a Regional. Just mention you may want to purchase the vehicle and stay off the miles issue .. it may save you $500 or $1,500 it's hard to say, it's based on what the market is doing at the auctions and how many will be rolling through and the barometric pressure.

        Once you have a "real deal" solid pay-off, then you will know whether or not it's worth keeping, trading or whatever .. Joe2617, I feel is a little lost on this one.

          Good luck and happy hunting ...

             Terry.

rroyce10 · February 2003

... l.o.l... you add just like I do ... thank goodness for calculators.!

Terry ;-)

joe2617 · February 2003

If the lease customer wants to purchase the vehicle FMC can provide the buy-out but if a dealer wants to buy it out it HAS to be done through the originating dealer who can set the price. We took a red carpet lease as a trade in and got stuck jumping through hoops for the originating dealer and I talked to everyone at FMC. Also Ford now carries residual insurance so they will seldom negotiate a Buy-out with a customer.

landru2 · February 2003

In my neck of the woods negotiating Ford lease buyouts is unheard of. Also, Ford Credit will NOT give a lease payoff to a customer here. They will merely refer them to the originating dealer.

Depends where you are. :^)

rroyce10 · February 2003

...... Sorry Joe, sounds like you may work at a store with a naive dealer .. I have negotiated many Fomoco deals and even negotiated prices at the auctions after they run .. but once the dealer gets involved and is aware the trade might be going elsewhere, then you do have a problem ..

But even then, the only time a dealer will get involved is when the residual is super low, the vehicle is ultra nice and the miles are super low and it's worth their while ..

Terry.

edlind · February 2003

Does anyone know whether the "US Gal Gas Factory", FDAF Assessment, and Destination/Delivery charges are all taxable...or should they be added on after sales tax?

landru2 · February 2003

Those are items on an invoice from the manufacturer to the dealer. If you are looking at an invoice then you should see that the tax line comes after these items.

Of course, all that really matters is that you pay tax on the amount shown on the contract between the dealer and you. And I have my doubts those items would be itemized on that document.

joe2617 · February 2003

I handle all of the leasing for our store and I am certainly not naive. FMC will not provide a dealer with a pay-off on a Red Carpet lease in N.J. They refer you to the originating dealer. I fought long and hard for them to honor the customers quoted pay-off to no avail, and we are a Primus dealer. As far as negotiating after the vehicle runs thats a different story.
Also why would I want to use a lease as a trade-in if its not worth more than the residual?

rroyce10 · February 2003

.... If you say so ~~ I have bought a lot of vehicles out of NJ, never had those problems .. if you ever need any help, you can always email me, it's on my profile.

Terry.

jspry · April 2003

Here's my situation ..I recently went to buy a 2000 Lexus RX300. I was told at the dealership that they didn't have the particular one I saw on the web site, but that they had another model (for more money of course) that was virtually the same. I bought the more expensive car, but for some reason I had a funny feeling the other one was still available, so I checked their web site again and had someone call, and sure enough ..they still have the original car I went in to purchase. Now I've noticed there are a few deep scratches on the outside of the vehicle I purchased, and I'm generally unhappy with the entire experience. Is there anything I can do??? Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!!

jasmith52 · April 2003

I am not a lawyer but here is my take on it.

If you don't have in writing that the advertised vehicle was not available then you have no case (that you can win).

As far as your vehicle that you purchased: Here in California there is no cooling off period. In other words once you buy a car and sign the contract it is yours for better or worse. If you can show that you were not advised of the deep scratches then you MAY have a case for some buffing and or paintwork on the car. However in my opinion you may not return the car.

Besides the deal that you received, How is the car ?? Are you satisfied with it and do you enjoy it. If so, then just chalk it up to experience and enjoy it even though you may have paid a little bit more. Just for our information exactly how much more did you end up paying ??

By the way, dealers are often not in a hurry to sell an advertised car. They can use it to bring in people (like you) and sell them a more profitable unit. It is just another marketing gimmick.

audia8q · April 2003

This does not appear to be bait and switch to me...it seems that the dealership is just slow in updating it's website. Many dealers who don't have their websites tied to the dealerships internal computer system often only update weekly or monthly.

Rich

jspry · April 2003

Actually, I asked them when I was in there how often they updated their website, because I had just seen the car on their site. The reply was "We update it at least once a day" and the car I purchased was taken off the site the day after I bought it. So I guess there's a reason why this car has been listed on the site for a few weeks ..

rivertown · April 2003

I'm with Jsmith on this, I don't think there's too much you can do now that you've bought the 'switch'.

IF you wanna give the dealer a shot at making it right, you might try to talk with a higher-up. Like a general manager? But, I wouldn't be surprised if you got more hooey.

It sounds classic bait and switch to me. You might cause some consternation if you filed a complaint with a regulatory agency, like the State's Attorney.

P.S. As a practical matter, you might wanna take this as lesson in the folly of believing what a car salesman says.

5speeder · April 2003

File a consumer complaint with your state's Attorney General's office. If this is really what they are doing, it may put a stop to it.

stubborn1 · April 2003

If the dealer pulled a bait and switch to get you in the door just to sell you another vehicle, thats unethical.

If the vehicle wasn't available and you didn't want anything else, why didn't you leave? From the description, it doesn't sound like the dealership forced you to buy the other model. Also, the scratches you mentioned should have been discovered when you checked out the vehicle.

It seems like both parties are at fault here. Remember, if you don't like the way you are being treated at a dealership you can always get up and leave.

rivertown · April 2003

I agree with Stubborn, ya gotta be willing to walk.

The other side of it, though, is the biz practice of the dealer. That hurts everybody. Bring it to the attention of somebody who may be able to do something about it.

leadfoot4 · April 2003

... you might want to call the Lexus 800 number and tell them what happened. If nothing more, they probably would see to it that your scratches were taken care of. However, are you positive it didn't happen somewhere or somehow after you took delivery of the car??

mirth · April 2003

Contact the sales manager at the dealer first and see if they'll take care of your scratches before getting Lexus or the AG involved. Also, another thing to consider is that just because the salesperson told your friend on the phone that the car exists doesn't make it so. That doesn't make the dealer any better, but it might make you feel better about the car you did get.

tk865 · April 2003

The only way to know for sure if the car is still there would be to walk the lot and inspect all the VIN's, an unethical saleman may just be saying it's still there, or an unethical net manager may have lied to get you in.... Either way, contact Lexus... They take things of this nature VERY seriously, from what I've seen Lexus has the most effective sanctions against rogue dealers. At our sister (Lexus) store, they aren't even allowed to advertise price as a function of invoice to further distance themselves from traditional car hokum. Also, and I know this isn't the case for you, but I wanted to remind others, when you show up about a car in the paper, or mailer, or whatever, and it's sold, it's not necessarily bait and switch. We put our weekend ads to press on Tuesday. We sell a lot of cars Tue-Fri, and natually the cheapest ones do go fast.

janz · April 2003

Also, last time I checked, you could always walk away if there was something going on in the deal that you didn't like. I know of people who have made bad purchase choices, but have never heard of someone being forced to buy.

Years ago I purchasing a base model Hyundai because it was in my budget and as young single woman in So Cal and afraid to buy used on my own. There were 2 on the lot at the base price that were brought in for a Labor Day sale starting on Saturday. Both were sold by mid-week.

I just do not think you could prove intent which I'd think would be critical to the case of what is legal or not.

Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Dealer's Tricks - bait &amp; switch, etc.

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.