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Comments
Chuck-.... Never mind (sigh).
Duncan
Opinions?
zzzzzzz
I just refused to do a story like that for a major editor because the story line is beyond worn out - yeah, I have all the inside info that would make an eye-catching story, but it's been done to death.
Let's talk about something (in print, in my case) that can actually HELP consumers and car salesmen alike, like "how to buy a used car" without all the barbs and gigs...give USEFUL information, not "look what we caught these guys doing"...
a 700 mile vehicle might get you another $75-$100 off. not worth alienating a good business relationship over, IMHO.
really???
so you want the average mileage value for your 2002 blahmobile with 60k miles, but the dealer's car is worth a lot less because you say so?
the reason we use that kind of figure is the fact that mileage is charged at $0.15 a mile in leasing, and anywhere from $0.10-$0.20 a mile in the books.
Car_man
Host
Smart Shoppers Message Board
It didn't make sense to me, just made me angry.
I was told by the local salesman, that I should buy from him because he had more time invested in me. (How would he know?)
A coworker bought a 4- or 5-month-old Montana at a new car dealership and later(she has a 2nd-floor office) discovered it had bad hail damage on the roof.
Of course by then she'd paid to have zero-effort steering and her wheelchair lift installed - she couldn't get to work until the mods were done don't you know. After dropping the roughly $20k in mods she didn't have the money for a lawyer to sue to the s.o.b.s.
She has an M.S. and friends all over the country...the story has gotten around. The manufacturer wouldn't help her out with the dealer...bad news travels and has long legs.
John
Andy
You friend PAID for this stuff outta her pocket?
GM and many other mfrs. have special programs for the handicapped. The mfrs. PAY or give credits for certain devices to assist the handicapped !
SS,VA,MS society all have programs to assist also!
GM Mobility is one !
Sounds like somebody didn't do their homework and has buyers remorse.
And yes, I questioned this with the F&I guy who said it was correct and the actual out the door price came in about $700 less than the $18K that was negotiated. I said OK. As we were driving away, I told my wife we'll probably get a call a couple days later.
And they did, but they would not honor the $18k out the door price and wanted $18.5K. I stuck to my guns and over several days of back and forth frustrating phone calls, they relented, and I dropped off a check for the $700.
Now my question for you experts here, since the fine print of the contract was in their favor and I believe in a court of law, I would have lost, how could I have handled this any differently and what would the dealer have likely done if they did not finally agree to the negotiated $18K out the door price?
I now realize that negotiating an out the door price and then relying on the F&I guys to work backward correctly for a purchase price is not smart. Since if they make a mistake (like they did), the contract is written based on a purchase price, not an out the door price, and the fine print is all in the dealer's favor.
Oh, and I do appreciate those of you in the business for donating your time on these boards. You're honest men that would get my business, but with all due respect, you are a minority in your industry.
It's possible the dealer didn't notice it either. It's also possible the dealer knew about it, didn't think it was a big deal and assumed the buyer would notice it too.
Is it really that big of a deal since it's so hard to even see?
However...as a native So. Calif guy, I can attest to the fact that is one, miserable marketplace.
It's been ruined by the full page "screamer" ads.
The dealerships can't attract or pay for quality people and managers. They have constant turnover.
Ad, a lot of this is fed by customers who pit these dealers againste each other in their attempt to wring out the bottom dollar and get the "best" price.
I don't know who really started all of this but it's a nasty cycle. I know I couldn't work there.
Remark by Bowke28:
>>> you make it sound like he is trying to sell the protection package BECAUSE she is a single mom. get real, man, and wake up. he tries to sell it to EVERYONE, whether they are a single mom or a same-sex elderly couple.<<<
Remark by driftracer:
>>> Some here would say "tough luck", but they may be the same ones who, after watching an old lady drop a $20 bill, would pick it up silently and not call out to the elderly woman...<<<
To me if a salesperson is preying on a low-middle income single mom, that is the same as a common man preying on an old womans' $20 bill. Both are not in a position to easily afford that extra $$$ loss.
How can the salesperson's overwhelming pitch be justified? especially when it is designed to make a kill?
I mean "stunned" - but it happens everyday in every showroom from Portland Maine to San Diego ..... reality.? you betcha.!
Terry
you write very good Terry.
However, shifting the burden to others doesn't help here.
Every business has it's dark side. However, we, over here are discussing car sales and not Wal-mart.
If I had to digress, I would also say that looking to what Prez. Bush did with Iraq, it gives me all the right to kill a criminal who has not yet done any act of violence against me, but it appears that he may. Can I?
certainly not.
Can I lie to the Judge? certainly not. Beware of Perjury.
Yeah! go and tell that to Bill Clinton, who is still respected even after getting a public thrashing on having "alleged" sex with his intern.
Moral of the story:
If you can get away with it, do so.
Don't give a damn about the other side.
Just take care of yourself.
Nobody else is going to care about your benefit. certainly not the salesman.
Chikoo - do you EVER post anything positive, or you just here to talk your negative trash and stir up trouble? I don't ever recall seeing anything positive come from your posts. You should try it sometime - might make you feel better and not so worked up inside.
As it is NONE of you has come up with a good logical solution to the problems I posed.All I heard was some feel good talk.
Price of vehicle $20,000
+ Tax $1,200
=========================
Total = $21,200
==========================
I write the check and go home with the car.
However, in a hurry, I wrote the amount as $22,100 and do not realize it till I see the bank statement at the end of the month.
What should I do?
What will the dealer do?
What's the problem? Dealers have their folks sell stuff, that's what retailers do, whether it's a car, a pair of jeans, a watch, or a GAP contract.
People who do a little homework, and aren't stupid, go into a retail place with the idea of buying something, and know what they want, how much they want to pay, and whether they want extras. If you go into anything unarmed and unprepared, you should expect to get skinned - that's just the way it is. People will take advantage of you - period.
I know when I go to Best Buy, like for my last purchase, Dragon Naturally Speaking, a dictation program, I knew I didn't want a warranty - it's a software program! What would they warranty, the microphone headset? They pitched it anyway, they even pressed a second attempt - I told them "no" - imagine the power of that one little word..."no"...
There are bad people out there who say things like "the lender mandates that you get the extended warranty", which we all know (or should know) isn't true.
I, personally, can't stop some F&I Manager in Ypslanti, Michigan, from telling someone that phrase. What can stop him is getting nailed for consumer fraud, but no one wants to take the time to do that - they don't want to get involved, they just want to sit back and whine...
Likewise, a good dealership will walk their customers thru all the paperwork and explain everything. When my wife and I bought our Volvo, the F&I lady went through everything, explaining each number and how it was arrived at, including where the dealer rounded DOWN the cost of the car a few bucks to make the OTD price exactly $27100. If a dealer doesnt volunteer to do all of this (except the rounding down bit
Well, Isell at least we agree that the marketplace in Southern California is rotten and it draws rotten people to work in it. As far as the above quote is concerned, I find it fascinating there is no weariness involved with those who work in the industry, just with me pointing out what's wrong.. I said all I am going to say, been there done that! However, I will continue to monitor this BB and when situations like "Single Mom-Ford Focus" comes up, I will be all over it responding. Because the simple fact is that she was being taken, at not one, I repeat, NOT ONE of you insiders told her so. That to me speaks volumes...........
Should I start combing through phone books and making calls until I find this lady? Am I supposed to know her? Should I have ESP so I could call her and warn her BEFORE she bought the car?
What are you looking for here, Chuck? Your accusation doesn't make much sense.
BTW, there are good people working in So. Calif dealerships that are hard working, decent people.
Here's how to find them...
Instead of scouring the Sunday ads looking for the loser, price screaming ad, ask a friend, neighbor, relative or co-worker for a referral.
Quality salespeople in many professions live on repeat and referral business. They work hard to earn that support and trust.
Duncan
Either way, I felt that she was sufficiently warned - Bobst did a good job, and I didn't feel I needed to go in and repeat what he already said.
I still don't know what you expect - is there a 20-post minimum, with different posters, in trying to talk someone out of making a mistake? Is that a new rule on Edmunds?
I purchased a used 2002 Ford Taurus SES in January of 2003 from a large Ford dealership near my home in California. The car was very clean, had about 20,000 miles on it and was listed for $12,999. I bought the car, it was just what I was looking for...economical & comfortable. The Dealership told me it was a one-owner car that was just traded in.
About a year and a half later...in June of 2004, I happened to be able to run a free CarFax report on my vehicles by using a friend's unlimited 30 day account. I found a big surprise...my Taurus was first purchased by a "Major Rental Car Company" and used as a daily rental for the first 9 months of its life. It was then repossesed by the finance company, bought at auction, and then sold to me.
Needless to say I was quite upset. I planned on keeping this car for several more years, and with already 55,000 miles on the car I felt that it was due for the transmission or something else major to break at any time. I went down to the dealership and spoke with the manager and was told, in so many words, "sorry, there's nothing we can do for you." I made several attempts to contact the owner of the dealership to no avail.
A coworker put me in touch with a law firm that handles Lemon Law and auto dealer fraud cases in California, and after a couple of meetings they took my case. They sent a demand letter to the dealership on my behalf demanding full recension of the contract and reasonable attorney's fees in exchange for me giving the vehicle back.
Last night, my lawyer finally received a response from the dealership's attorneys. They offered to rescind the contract and pay my attorney's fees, in effect paying me the total amount including interest I had paid into the car, my down payment & fees, plus the payoff amount on the loan..MINUS a "set-off" based on the amount of miles I had put on the car since I bought it. The setoff amount turns out to be about 50% of the cash I would have gotten back after the loan is paid off. (They also offered to pay me $5,000 in cash and have me keep the car & current loan to just have the problem "go away", which I declined...I don't feel comfortable in the car and don't feel it is as reliable a vehicle as I want)
I am still waiting to consult with my attorneys and I'll go with what she thinks is reasonable course of action based on the counteroffer from the dealership, and will post here with updates.
Wow - I haven't seen that before. Even being in that particluarr field of litigation, I wouldn't recommend to any of my attorneys that any "fraud" occured. Personally, I think it's ridiculous and a waste of the court's time - and I'm IN the dealer fraud business.
hmm, interesting story .. has the vehicle for 18 months, piles up the miles with no problems and all of a sudden, they will take a $10,000+ loss just to make it "go away" .?!? .. there is hundreds of rentals sold everyday, so lets make this real simple, email me a copy of the contract, my email is in my profile ........
... sniff sniff, I smell a troll coming on ....
Terry.