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Comments
You do know that the Accord is the most stolen car in the U.S.? You have a better chance of your 545 still being where you parked it than you do with the Accord! :P
If folks can steal a vehicle equipped with alarm and engine immobilizer from a high-traffic parking lot with security cars riding around, more power to 'em, I say.
Very brand-loyal over there, like some of the Lexus loyalty we see, maybe moreso.
I'm much more concerned with some of today's fine young scholars auditing the parking lots during school time armed with keys!
Would be tragic to deface my Bangle 545 with its breathtakingly unique, aggressive lines that even Lexus currently seeks to copy.
I can only guess that some folks don't have an eye for beautiful architectural design.
This is interesting, as Toyota and Lexus move forward with hybrids, it would seem that diesels are getting poised to clobber them.
I'm good with that . . . very good.
Good article here:
The Axis of Diesel
TagMan
The emergence of lawful cleaner diesels in the USA should create a sensation in several years, and should render the hybrids to deserved obsolescence. These diesels will be cheaper to buy than hybrids and get much better mpg. Sounds like a no-brainer.
A great link. Very exciting stuff!
But... maybe before you buy any Accord you should at least check out the Hyundai Sonata. I have never driven one but they look great, I have read great things about them, the price is right, and they have best warranty around. Maybe your prediction will come true. They might pass Toyota and Honda!!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I stick by my prediction. Hyundai will surpass Toyota in a few years. Honda would be a lot tougher.
Very excited about the cleaner diesel potential: better mpg than hybrids with a nice big trunk. Imagine diesels beating the tough new EPA emission standards. What's not to like?
Yes. I can see it now. The 2008 Honda Accord EXD, 31 city/44 highway, featuring manual lumbar support for the driver. :P
2008 thesaurus look up of "hybrid": "obsolete."
On one side, you've got automakers that now have conjured up ways to get even cleaner diesel engines without the need of urea tanks. Thanks to piezo injectors(these are used in the race-versions of diesels), the atomazation of the diesel fuel is delivered to the cylinder more precise, thus elimanating back-burn, which causes the high Nox levels and the lovely aroma of SOOT!!!
And then on the other side, the automakers have actually been able to keep costs down, even tho this new technology does cost major bucks to be mass-marketed. You've got Audi, MB, and now BMW all making clean diesel some way or another. MB just announced that they had good reason on holding off on the urea tank for the Bluetec, they've found a way to get the clean stuff without it.
Audi recently announced that the new TDI's will meet EVERY emission requirements in the world(altho most countries don't have them). The new 5.0L TDI V10 will be twin-turbo'd and has been tested for durability over 500k miles.
And of course everyone knows what BMW is doing with the diesel-electric.
This thing has just began....
Well, honestly, I didn't think that was going to work. As I've eluded to before, that company isn't even out of the dark yet, as witnessed by the many quality woes that still plague their American made vehicles.
And Renault? Need I say anything about the absolute most unreliable mass-marketed brand.
A great link. Very exciting stuff!
Glad you liked it!
My initial enthusiasm for gas/hybrid technology has faded away fast.
I am 100% behind the re-emergence of the diesel, as many of you know by now, and I look forward to purchasing a diesel powered vehicle in the near future.
I agree with you that it has been frustrating to read the great reviews, only to discover that they won't ever be hitting our shores.
Well, all that's about to change, my friend, and it's about time.
TagMan
This thing has just began
Absolutely.
TagMan
Today's news reported that they have now turned towards Ford. What do you know about this?
TagMan
More to the point: Today, I actually for the first time attracted a crowd at the local Mobil filling station. It seems there is a huge fan base for Audi's S cars, particularly the new S6 and S8.
One guy was driving a pristine previous generation RS 6, and I ended up making small talk with him over why so many people look over Audi's big car. Conversely the A4 and A6 do very well here.
Long story short, here in the NE at least, these cars are highly desireable as you can't even get a Sport-pkg equipped A4/A6 3.2 because of the dealers are out. And the RS 4? fuggadoboutit. S6? Fat chance. S8? Better luck in '08..
But I did here that Audi is really serious about getting the 550hp RS 6 over here next year, as it has just overthrown the M5 in a 3 way G'car comparison test between them and the E63 in a recent German pub.... And Audi is now talking with the big folks(VW) about bringing the A8L TDI in time for the eventual MB S320 CDI.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Four things come to mind when driving it over the last couple of days; fast, comfortable, stylish and solid. Everything clicks and thunks, from the doors being closed to the windows doing their little drop down/raise up routine everytime a door is opened. The doors on this car are so heavy and the controls all thack and click when used. The ride is of the magic carpet variety, it isn't a sports car and speed is deceptive. I've found myself doing 90 mph when I thought I was doing about 75 at best - dangerous $$$. Handling is also deceptive too, sometimes the car feels as if it isn't going to handle a corner to well, but once you take a set it does just fine and the body doesn't lean as much as you feel it would. If that makes sense. In short there is no BMW-like turn-in here, but it isn't unresponsive either. When you actually push it you find that it can handle, it just doesn't relish the task like say a BMW does. I should have some pics up shortly.
M
Lexus LS600hL:
Jaguar XKR:
BMW M6 Convertible:
Audi R8:
M
That's terrific, merc - great to hear! Hurry with the pics!
There's nothing quite like good heavy doors that thunk with some real authority!
Looking forward to the photos!
The V6 Camry does have a EPA of 22/31. Check Toyota's own website, EPA figures 22/31 for V6 SE.
Huh...let's see 3.5L 268bhp V6 vs. 3.0L 240 bhp V6. Which one is going to hustle more?
In short, the Honda stick!!! The Toyota may have more power, but it's immediately sapped by it's horrid power-to-weight ratio, something Honda does very well, and that's why the Acuras will probably never have a V8(except perhaps the new NSX V10).
And power isn't the whole story. Don't you think it's quite odd that the smaller engined GL450 with it's 4.7L 335hp V8 outguns(by almost a full second) the hulkin' Escalade with it's 6.2L 403hp all-American iron V8???
And the new CLK is just as good, especially the new 475hp CLK63.
I;m jealous. At least until my S600 gets here.. :P
I think I know how much it means to you and just how much you genuinely appreciate it.
I may be one of the last to congratulate you here, but let me assure you that I am truly glad for you. The CLK430 is a very cool Mercedes, as it represents a terrific combination of some of the best attributes Mercedes is known for
. . . and plenty of extra F-U-N as well.
That 430 engine willingly delivers silky smooth performance like a bullet, and at the same time is very generous with its noteable fuel economy.
Beautiful car! Congratulations again, merc!
(radar detector needed?
TagMan
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
A few pics:
M
LS board is reporting prices of 07 LS as $61,000 base SWB and $71,000. LWB
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Here's the official Toyota press release right here:
2007 Lexus LS460 and LS460L base MSRP
TagMan
A Valentine One should be a perfect match for that particular color scheme!
Because you posted those gorgeous HELM photos, just for fun I'll put those pics in order, based upon appearance, IMHO of course. This won't be easy. They're all good-lookers, but here goes:
1. Mercedes CL63AMG
2. Audi R8
3. Jag XKR
4. BMW M6 Convertible
5. LS600hL
How about the rest of you?
TagMan
A truly stunning vehicle.
this is a beaut!
Coincidentally I saw a black CLK430 model just like yours with its top down in front of a restaurant while seated outside today(probably the last sunny warm day in Toronto until spring arrives). Both my client and I admired the car while eating.
Congratulations MercCLK1
Here it its:
1. Jag XKR
2. MB CL63AMG
3 Audi R8
4 Lexus LS600hL
5 BMW M6 Convetible
Oh yes Merc I do think your CLK convertible looks much nicer than the coupe that is ranked number 5.
Tagman that is a great post about diesels.
But in terms of diesels the article below is a wretched fly in the ointment :sick: :
J.D. Power and Associates Reports:
Problems with Heavy-Duty Truck Engines Increase as More Manufacturers Employ
New Emission Standards
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.: 5 October 2006 -As manufacturers of heavy-duty truck engines strive to meet government-regulated emission standards by implementing new emission technologies, customers are increasingly experiencing problems with their engines, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2006 Heavy-Duty Truck Engine/Transmission StudySM released today.
The study, now in its 10th year, measures customer satisfaction with the engines in two-year-old heavy-duty trucks (Class 8) by examining four vital engine factors. They are (in order of importance): engine quality (30%); engine performance (26%); engine cost of ownership (22%); and engine warranty (22%). The study examines engines supplied in 2004 model-year trucks, the second model year impacted by the Consent Decree that raised diesel engine emission standards.
To meet emission regulations, manufacturers are continuously redesigning engines and employing new technologies, such as redirecting exhaust gas back into the engine to burn off more pollutants. Consequently, the average number of reported engine problems has increased to 74 PP100 (engine problems per 100 vehicles)-up from 46 PP100 in 2005.
I know this article is about trucks and not cars. But diesel cars will have the same challenges as trucks with emissions technology and they may end up being less reliable.
This is a big issue especially for MB, Audi and BMW. These three marques are already struggling to improve their quality/reliability rankings in North America. Their new low emission diesels will be more complex and are likely to be more vulnerable to malfunctions.
Based on CR and JD Powers hybrid cars are top ranked. There appears to be no major reliability issues with hybrids. This in itself can be considered an advantage for Lexus hybrids since as we all know the perception of reliability is an important factor for many buyers.
The LS460L is aggressively priced, and is right on top of the 750iL. This may add feul to Tag's fire on that note.
I don't think Lexus is after BMW customers any more or less than they are after Mercedes customers. I believe Lexus' priority is to replace Mercedes as the preeminent luxury marque in the US.
With that in mind, I would price the 600 right on top of the S550, and see what shakes out.
This would increase market awareness and brand image, and maybe Lexus will sell more than 2-3k hybrids. It's as good a time as any to find out if this luxury hybrid class has legs or not.
If Lexus can sell more than 3k 600h a year, than the model is a success, IMHO.
Considering I predicted a 10/15 launch date, and a 10/2 price release date, I'd say I was accurate enough.
The LS460L is VERY well-equipped, and the 750i is in for a long 2007. Std NAV makes the spread $10k. A novel approach, since it is extremely rare for NAV to be standard on any car, HELM or not.
Considering the low price on the SWB, 30k sales is a low-ball estimate. 40 is more accurate, and 45-50k is not out of the question in '07!
Regarding this best-dressed list, move the LS up to #2, behind the Jag!
Germany makes many cars better looking than these! But my favorite will always be the 1995 BMW 740/750iL.
But Lexus is learning how to style-and-profile!
There goes the neighborhood!
DrFill
Problems with Heavy-Duty Truck Engines Increase as More Manufacturers Employ New Emission Standards
Dewey, there is one significante difference . . . up until several days ago, October 1st, the sulphur in diesel fuel was a major component, but is now reduced to somewhere around 5%.
Previous generations of emissions control had to work around all that sulphur, which is no longer the case.
New ballgame. Say hello to BlueTec and the future of diesels.
TagMan
The lower sulphur content may do wonders for our environment but it will not neccessarily be good for a diesel engine. This article I linked relates to trucks but is also relevant for autos (HELM and non-HELM). The Europeans luxury marques and Honda/VW are not only developing complex emissions technologies but also developing complex technologies to avoid engine damage. This added complexity in diesel engines may make them more vulnerable to malfuncitions. Whether that is the case or not we will have to wait and see (in a few years we will see MB Blutec reliability stats):
Trucking fleets around Australia are reporting a rash of fuel-related seal failures linked to the recent introduction of diesel fuel with a lower sulphur and aromatics content. The seals in question are fuel injection and throttle-shaft O-rings and gaskets made with a rubber compound. Some of these seals are reportedly failing after as little as 3 weeks exposure to the new low sulphur diesel fuel. Engines with rotary injector pumps use diesel for lubrication, as contrasted with in-line pumps which use crankcase oil. As a result, engines with rotary pumps are, at this time, the hardest hit.
The problems are apparently an unexpected result caused by the fuels mandate which has taken effect. On 1 January 2000, Western Australia became the first state in Australia to achieve “Euro II” (Low Sulphur) standards in diesel fuel and to eliminate lead from petrol.
link title
BTW, you do realize this is the wrong forum? unless the Accord and Camry all of a sudden became high end lux marques.
I am a bit suspicious about the article that you linked, as it was authored by the B100 product company that markets the solution to the "problem" that they are focusing on.
But, if true, then there are clear measures that can be taken, both in the manufacturing methods of the engines, with regards to sealant properties and composition, and also with the fuel itself.
The lower acidity of the newer fuel was noted in the article as a positive attribute, but it seems the major concern is its the lower lubricating properties.
This is extrememly interesting, however, and the bottom line here is that it does indeed raise the concern level, as you were initially pointing out. Time will tell if the difficulties indicated in the article with regards to heavy duty diesel engines and the use of low sulphur fuel have any real relationship to the auto diesel engines that will be forthcoming.
Gosh, I sure hope for the best, because if there are failures similar to the ones cited, then the trend towards diesels could essentially be undermined.
This is worthy of more investigation and discovery, IMO, and if you find any more information about this as it relates to the CAR diesels and the low sulphur fuel, please post it. I, for one, would be most interested.
At this point, however, I remain very optimistic and excited about the forthcoming diesel engine options that we will be seeing within just another model year or two.
Thanks for the post!
TagMan
More follow up to your post, please.
Complexity in terms of the technology involved to create the solution? . . . or, are you saying that the engine itself is becoming more "complicated" somehow.
The reason I am asking is that complex technology could be utilized to create what is ultimately a "simple" or "non-complicated" solution.
Generally, diesel engines are not all that complicated. So, are you referring to some major complex engine component that is now an inherent part of the engine?
I mean a new generation particulate filter doesn't strike me as complex even if the technology to develop it is. A new generation of a catalytic exhaust component doesn't strike me as complicated, even it its unique individual manufacturing process is complicated.
So, what specifically are you referring to that is so complex or complicated that it might be subject to increased failure?
TagMan
Price out an LS460L (must be long wheelbase to properly comp) with the closest and most similar equipment package you can come up with to an S550.
Let me see the true difference in price, but similarly equipped.
I'll be most interested in your calculations.
Thanks,
TagMan
But seriously, let's disect this conversation a bit. Dewey, yes with new technology comes new problems. That can be said for just about everything. But, when it comes to diesel technology, few(if any) continents do it better than Europe. Low-sulphur equipped diesels have been there for years, with little to no more problems over the old smokin' Joe diesels of only 2 decades ago.
Some of things that were mentioned in that JD study were a bit misleading to say the least. For one, the whole thing about the maintenance is nothing more than the owners are bit beturbed because they can no longer work on the trucks themselves , which now requires special tools and software to ascertain problems, diagnose, and fix.
On to the mainstream passenger cars, it now has been proven that the low-sulphur diesel are more durable and have more longevity than a comparable traditional diesel. This can be tossed up due to a dramatically lower NOX level and much better management of fuel, such as those piezo injectors that burn 98.89% of ALL fuel that enters the cylinder wall, compared to a 80% at best for an older diesel.
And now you have the ultra-quiet diesels that are so deceiving that you'd swear that your in a gas-powered car, as witnessed by the ultra-quiet MB 3.2CDI.
This all is not yo say that you didn't bring valid points, in which you did, but I don't think that the Europeans are going to drop the ball on diesel and their incredible reliablility anytime soon.
For me, gas-hybrid technology is just a band-aid to the energy problem that is happening, especially since it has been proven time and time again that they get nowhere near there estimated EPA in most circumstances. And for this, I will definetely be on the diesel side of the fence.....
You know my position as well. Gas/electric hybric is a viable alternative that is OK as a temporary technology. Unless it provides some unusual breakthrough, I don't expect it to last for the long haul. I'm OK with it in the meantime, however.
Diesels are a far better answer, without a doubt. And diesel/electric could be something to consider.
Hydrogen will likely worm its way into our infrastructure, and my crystal ball says it will become the big winner when the dust finally settles.
But, for the immediate future, I am so anxious to get my hands on a new generation diesel vehicle.
I expect Mercedes to release the BlueTec in many of their models within the next few years. Even Japan is coming aboard. Toyota will be the lone ranger with their gas hybrids, and I'll bet they finally make the switch, too.
The market itself will force them to, IMO. Their one big advantage could be diesel/electric hybrids due to their leading experience with the hybrids.
TagMan