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Comments
BTW, Scirocco is the Subie/Audie owner. I came close to getting a Forester, but fell under the spell of the four rings at the last minute. Our other car is a '95 Infiniti G20 manual -- solid, reliable, inexpensive to maintain, but underpowered. With 77k miles, it's had only one big problem: odometer had to be replaced at 30k miles. Its replacement -- whenever that happens -- will be ??an A4? S4? ???
Hey Karen, I'd say your replacement might be the Infiniti G35 Mike was talking about. Isn't it a coincidence to have 260hp on that car, the same as the Acura 3.2TL Type S??? Heck, or get the VW W8 Passat. No more feeling underpowered. Not enough? How about the 2002 Audi RS6???? 340hp, based on the S8's 360hp V8. There you go, you got power, utility (no sedan but only as an Avant) and the 4-ring emblem.
Billy
Oh, is it just me, or are most of us here already forgot the domestic cars? Is it just me.....the domestic cars are just so bland and stupid looking. Especially their interiors.....my job brings me to a lot of business trips and I'm now sick of all Ford vehicles. Bad interiors, just something that's not right.
Billy
Oh wait, I interpreted that wrong. He's talking about YOU!!! aaaah!!! No, I vote for the A4 Cabriolet! ...I can just see you in that car!! ...wind blowing through your hair and the big smile on your face. In fact, I think I hear it calling your name right now! *listens a little closer*
Billy-- whew! yeah, that was an interesting article on awd systems but the only thing is that it's 10 years old. Haven't both Audi and Subaru done several upgrades since then? I wonder if we can find an update somewhere from that same author?
--'rocco
Billy, yeah, I can't think of a single domestic car I'd seriously consider -- and I wish that weren't the case. I drove a Taurus about a year ago; it had ZERO road feel. I thought: How could anybody be satisfied with this? And a Camry struck me the same way: way too insulated from the road, way too bland. Then recently I was looking for a rental car, checking all the agencies to see what they had in a compact or subcompact. Almost all the cars (maybe all; can't remember for sure) were domestic and were bad in crash tests. I think domestic automakers have come a long way in the past 10 years or so, but they still haven't come far enough to hold my interest. Seems to me that a lot of them put way too much effort into frills -- stupid exterior flourishes -- and too little effort into engines, handling, safety, and reliability.
Billy, you actually quoted technology from a 10 year old article? That's Neanderthal stuff in this day in age. I, though, for one, appreciate the research you're doing for us all.
Oh, one other point, as I see it, Audi's Quatro design philosophy centers around an emphasis on superb all weather handling from a sports perspective. I think Subaru's philosophy is more focused on effective driving where road conditions are poor. I might be tempted to compare Audi's AWD with BMW's or Jaguar's, where Subaru's would better be compared with the RAV-4 or vehicles of that ilk.
I agree with your assessment of the philosophical differences between the Audi and Subaru awd systems. Although, many Subaru enthusiasts contend that Subaru really emphasizes their "sport prowess" now when marketing the WRX.
Billy-- I thank you too. Where did you find that piece? I'd be interested if that author has updated the information.
--'rocco
the dictionary.
On your second point, it seems like every reviewer in the world wants to knock the floor mounted ignition switch. The only reason that is ever given is that it's 'quirky'. So, what's the difference from a functionality standpoint:
. Saab locks the transmission where other cars lock the steering wheel.
. Saab keys don't hang down and dangle against your knees as you drive.
. Saab keys don't penatrate your knee or leg if you're involved in a serious accident.
. The Saab key placement area is housed with sheetmetal and not easily accessable for would-be thieves (Saabs are the second least stolen car in the country - Ignition key placement is part of the reason). Now the placement does take some getting used to. It kind of reminds me of when light switches and windshield wiper controls were moved to the steering wheel stalks. Oh, I forgot, I did discover a downside to this design. It was on a VERY cold day in Gloucester, MA. I spilled some coffee on the way to work; couldn't figure out why my key wouldn't go in come quitting time. You can guess the rest. I finally figured it out and heated my key to solve the problem.
As far as the 9-3 is concerned, their reliability has been lower than that of the 9-5, but I think what you said about the torque steer is it's biggest liability. Stomp on the accelerator from a standing start and the car wants to pull you into oncoming traffic (at least this was the case with my '94 900SE turbo). No, my sole recommendation is for the 9-5, a really fine machine (also great for older folks who still want sportiness but need a design that doesn't cramp their bodies so much).
My experiences shopping for the 9-5: When I was looking at Saabs, little incentives were being given probably because they were trying to move the 9-3s. The 9-3s were being sold for something like 6k UNDER invoice!? The didn't seem to want to deal on the 9-5's for they were fairly scarce. The sticker prices on the 9-5's were pretty much all around the 40k area. They were even reluctant to let me test drive one for they kept pushing the 9-3.
No, it wasn't even an Aero. Man, now I'm sort of regretting not pushing the issue a little more. Yes, I've read many testemonials on the Saab ingition switch and I really do like its placement.
Don-- Yeah, if I could have negotiated a price like you did on a 9-5 I might be driving that now instead of an A4. wow! that's interesting.
Louie-- That's funny!! :-p
--'rocco
Speaking of domestic vs foreign, my classification is that it's a foreign car if it is a foreign design and built with foreign company supervision. An Accord built in Ohio? It's still a foreign car. A Z3 built in US? It's still a German car. I know rental cars are beaten to death by most renters, but none of the rental cars excite me, vs the excitement the 1.8T brought me after 10 seconds of driving it.
Speaking of which, the AUDI MAGAZINE showed up in my mailbox yesterday. OH YEAH, I don't know why I got it, but it just showed up. You could have guessed it, it spent a lot of time covering the new A4. Here's the dimension increase in the car:
-Exterior length of vehicle increased by 2.7 inches
-Interior length of vehicle increased by 1.25 inches
-Leg room at the back increased by 1.7 inches
-Head room in the front seat increased by 0.59 inches
-Head room in the back seat increased by 0.55 inches
-Trunk space increased to 15.7 cubit ft
It also talks about weight savings due to more uses of aluminum parts on the suspension and the new V6 engine. Of course it missed out the fact that to make the whole chassis stiffer, they added on about 200 pounds to both models.
The new car looks better than I thought, but still I like mine better. The interior.....well maybe I need to actually sit in one, but the inside door handle is very similar to the Taurus (uh oh). The pictures shown are actually European ones (the mag was printed in Germany). Hopefully I can drive one in AoA's Quattro Challenge event in Chicago on Sep 8. I will definitely write an unofficial road test report after that :>
Billy
--'rocco
Ken-- Yup, it was an actual business sign! I just think the owner wasn't really thinking when he gave the sign painters the orders. In fact, he still might not get it for if he did, you'd think that he'd want to change it by now! *lol* I might just take a picture of it; good idea!
Karen-- Fit and finish: now that takes us back to the discussion whether a Japanese car that's assembled here in the U.S. has identical fit and finish compared to one assembled in Japan. What do you think? My father, when purchasing his last Accord, made it a point to make sure that it was one of the units that was assembled in Japan. When Subaru first starting making the Legacy/Outback in Indiana, I heard there were quite a few quality issues. Presently, however, I wonder if you could really notice any difference in the fit and finish of an American assembled Legacy as opposed to one over in Japan? I heard a similar situation existed with the Mexican assembled Jettas but the quality of those cars, I believe, still doesn't measure up to those made in Germany. Was it Ford that started making the Taurus in Japan for the Japanese market? I wonder if they were any different than those made here? Whew! ...why am I even worrying about all this, anyway?? *lol*
--'rocco
BTW, although I'm really happy overall with my new A4, my biggest disappointment with it so far is probably the stock headlights. Yeah, Rocco, your offer to swap my sport seats for your Xenons is sounding better and better!
I'm beginning to suspect that modern manufacturing techniques tied to serious quality assurance/quality control programs has much more to do with final quality than place of manufacture.
Hehe today after workout at my company's building I took the curvy road that leads to the main road pretty fast and OH YEAH, Quattro is awesome. There was a patch of sand across the curvy road and I intentionally moved closer to the center of the road just in case Quattro doesn't act as well as I thought. Whem!!! It lost partial traction for 1 millisecond and in the next millisecond Quattro pulled the car right back to the curve of travel. It's pretty darn amazing. I noticed, however, the tires are not slick at all. The car was still holding on to the ground pretty well, but the tires started to screech quite a bit. Time for some 17" wheels and slicks :>
Billy
Last month I rented a Ford Escape when I was on a business trip and that vehicle might be one of those domestic vehicles that amazed me. I guess there got to have something to do with the fact that it's actually a Mazda Tribute. It has a lot of Japanese influence and a lot of nice touches. Of course it still carries a lot of stupid things like there is no keyhole on the tailgate (you need to open it from inside). Overall it's a very decent vehicle. Jeep Liberty won't survive if D-C doesn't do a good job in that one. They had a huge sales slide last quarter in the Dodge and Chrysler camps.
Hey we got to talk about Audi's here....mmm. How come Audi doesn't have an SUV?? OK maybe the Allroad is an SUV wannabe, but with a $50k price tag it's a little bit too much. I know it's not right for BMW's, Mercedes Benz or even Porsche to get an SUV, but if Audi wants to compete, they got to have one. I heard VW is getting one (it's a joint venture between VW and Porsche, which honestly is one big company, VW owns Audi, Audi owns Porsche). The one that Porsche is getting is ugly as hell, and the name, if i remember correctly, it's Cayenne. Porsche Cayenne. Yuck.
So what should Audi name theirs if they have one? The Audi A1?? Hehe aka Audi SteakSauce.
Billy
P.S. Porsche Cayenne sounds like Portia Cayenne, which sounds like a hooker's name. *lol*
Now for my $0.02 (and maybe somewhat a contradiction): As we've discussed before (and as you have discovered), we can conclude that those descriptions you mentioned which are negative characteristics of Xenons are not actually exclusive characteristics of Xenons but rather specific characteristics of the projector style headlights. I have the hunch that you'll be disappointed by spending the $500 (or even $1,000 for that matter) on a conversion for you'll still get those annoying characteristics that are inherent with projectors. I didn't fully realize or understand this when I first posted my impressions and disappointment at the Xenons originally. So with that said, I think that maybe just replacing the halogens with one of the "super-white" bulbs that several manufacturers offer might be the way to go as far as bang-for-the-buck for their cost should be under $100. But before you guys do anything, let's research and discuss this further... I'll do some more checking around and I'm sure that you'll get some more responses here also. Have you been reading any of the posts over on AudiWorld or Vortex lately or checked their archives? I haven't really been over to either site for some time and when there, haven't been paying that much attention to what's been talked about as far as headlighting goes. Okay, Karen, sit tight for while as we do some more research.
--'rocco
Scirocco, so those lights need to be self levelling in order to be legal.....mmm. That I'm pretty sure that $500 package (actually it might be closer to $600) doesn't include any self levelling device. As you mentioned if you do the whole 9 yards it gotta be at least $1k. The euro housings do not perform any autolevelling.....from the naked eyes it just includes a little bulb for dusk driving, so you don't need to turn on your low beams but cars in the opposite direction can see you. About the abrupt cutoff on the light pattern edges, I think 'Rocco is correct.....it might be caused by the projectors. My little theory is that, the light beam ends on the edge of the curvature on the projectors, while on the multi-reflector headlights, the light keeps on bouncing off different surfaces so it's spreaded all the way around the housing. In other words the light pattern is wider on the multi-reflector housings. And oh yeah, DO NOT switch the non-xenon bulb to some aftermarket fake xenon bulbs, or even the super white bulbs. I had both in my Accord, and the "super white" bulbs aren't really THAT bright, and the fake xenon bulbs only give out a cool blue tint which in fact it doesn't illuminate the road well enough, I needed to turn on the PIAA fog lights.
Yeah more research needs to be done before we decide the solution is to trade in your vehicle and get the stock xenons on, or see if the dealer will switch the whole light system for a xenon set. That said, the $500 stock Xenon option is a steal. Scirocco, I'm flying to Seattle and steal yours shortly. LOL just kidding :>
Billy
(And it's today's post, not 10 years old, LOL J/K)
It talks about how good the euro housings are, where to get them, etc..
Billy
Thanks, Tom.
Ian -- IMHO Quattro is one big factor that makes Audi stand out from other manufacturers. Even in everyday driving it really enhances the driving experience, and I get the impression that that's important to you. If the $25k limit would put an A4 with Quattro out of reach, what about a used one? Also, assuming that you haven't already driven all of the vehicles you're considering, I suspect that you'd be disappointed with the Camry. Although it gets good reviews, I found it to be really lacking in road feel and handling.
You can floor the gas in the Q on ice or any other surface and it will not slip. Absolutely fool-proof off-the-start acceleration.
We took it skiing a couple of times in March and one night I went out for a rally-style drive in the snow. It is some of the best fun I've had in a car - you can toss the A4 on snow and ice in turns and it feels very composed and surprisingly well-balanced for its imperfect weight distribution. It feels very predictable and you can just gas it halfway through the corner on your way out and it will hold up the line pretty well.
Audi vs. Subaru - it sound like Subaru has a great AWD system as well but to me, Subaru is family, Audi is sport.
Xenons: do get them if you can. I totally agree that they are a bargain for $500. HID is a much better technology than regular lights and it will likely be standard on most cars in 5 years - just like airbags.
Good discussions on this board - keep it up!!
Sixpines, about chipping, I guess I don't need to tell you how much happier you will be if I tell ya for $500 you get 37 more hp and more importantly, 80 more lbft of torque. I don't have a chip, but all owners that have a chip have big grins on their faces and told me to do it asap. However, the cons of AoA denying your warranty if they somehow link engine failures to you chipping your car, well you are doomed and will be responbile for thousands of dollars need to fix the engine. They will void all warranty that's linked to you being chipped. Yes you can chip your engine by yourself, it's not difficult to do. Just pull the stripping out right behind your engine bay, loosen up 5 screws, pull the ECU cover out, take the computer board out, and get your chip solder in (either you send it back to the chip vendors and they'll send it back within a day, or just buy a new board with the soldered chip), put the cover back on, tighten the 5 screws (one of them is hard to tighten), and put the plastic strip back in. I've seen an experienced guy did it in 10 minutes, so for amateurs it might take 30 minutes, tops. Then you do an engine adaptation....meaning the computer will "relearn" the throttle position corresponding to how much boost it should put out, etc.. I think it takes 3 minutes and that's it. You get lots of power instantaneously. Some people take the chip out right before they head to dealerships to perform service, some use the new EMCS hidden codes that they can switch back and forth between stock and chipped mode (by using the cruise control stalk) without taking the chip out. Some people chip their cars after they get past 5k (to let the engine settle down), some chip after their warranty expires. Your choice. I had always wanted to chip after 5k, but for fear of voiding the warranty if anything happens. Not a good time to spend tons of money now for me.
Anyhow I'm on the road travelling again and guys, guess what I got this time.....a 2001 Volvo V70 wagon, with the normally aspirated engine making 168hp I think. Very nice inside, I like the leather interior and more gadgets than the Audi like a button on the remote to light the car up together with lights underneath the exterior rear wheel mirrors, radio controls on the steering wheel, dual zone MANUAL climate control, etc.. However the ride is totally unacceptable. OK maybe I've driven a German sedan for a while, but this V70 is clearly tuned for a luxurious ride rather than a sporty ride. Road noise is minimal, which is good, but it's also bad since the interior starts to rattle and it's pretty pronounced. Tons of torque steer and it can oversteer pretty easily. That explains why it got traction control I guess. The 5-cylinder engine is smoother than a 4-cyliner one but it idles noisier and rougher than my 1.8T, which is surprising. On paper the horsepower numbers are similar, but torque isn't available as fast and easy as the A4 1.8T. Oh yeah, when we went to grab dinner I parked next to a Laser Red '01 A4 1.8T (just to make this sound Audi-ish). Hehe.
Billy
Regarding the Subaru AWD, I've read many positive postings about its performance in inclement weather. Two things that still have me leaning towards Audi are 1. ESP on Audi and 2. More safety features. I know that Subaru now has a VDC sedan, but the price is more than an A4 Quattro 1.8 and it doesn't look as good.
. ESP is now standard equipment
. The stereo system apparently sounds even better than before.
. The standard suspension has about the same stiffness as earlier sport suspensions.
. The chassis is 45% stiffer.
. The interior is 3db quieter (thicker glass).
. In-dash 6 disk CD changer is standard.
. Dual zone air conditioning is standard.
. The trunk is significantly larger.
. And I like the looks of the dual pipes.
I'm going to get one of these cars. I've already put my deposit down on a silver 1.8T quatro (wanted pearlescent white again but it's a $1200 upgrade).
By the way, as I understand it, the lighter, front drive A4 that comes standard with the new Constant Velocity Transmission is one VERY perky car.
bmms8 ... Isn't the Jag X type priced about the same as the Audi A4Q with the 3 Liter engine? If so, is the Jag really the more powerful car?
brave1heart ... I'm not sure I would drive even my soon to be purchased ESP laden Quatro on sheer ice without being very, very careful. For all this fancy stuff to work as advertised, don't you still have to be able to get some kind of grip on at least one wheel?
Now, I need to sell my present pearlesecent white 2000 1.8T Quatro that has 32,000 miles on it (hey, I love to drive). It's in perfect condition, hasn't driven on salted roads, it looks new, and it's had regular dealer service every 5K miles. I'm even replacing the Z rated sports tires with new ones (so I can meet the Kelley Blue Book definition of 'excellent condition'). It has the Bose upgrade sound system, heated front seats, Sports package, homelink system (auto dim rearview mirrors, built in garage door openers, etc), and a sunroof.
Now, being somewhat new to the internet, here's my question: What's the best way to sell a car these days? (my dealer has a reputation for low-balling on trade-ins - I'm tired of letting dealers do this to me). Also, are Kelley Blue Book sell-it-yourself values realistic?
"The Dunlop SP Sport 8000E is produced with a silica based tread compound which improves wet traction (dry traction should be comparable). The SP Sport 8000 can be used as a replacement tire when done in complete sets of 4. The two different model tires should not be mixed on the same vehicle."
Well, my three 8000Es should arrive in a few days (I'll use my spare as my 4th tire).
By the way, for you folks thinking about buying an A4, one thing that's easy to appreciate is the full size spare mounted on a matching wheel.
sorry I'm late getting in my one-liner, but it's been a busy week and it's only Tuesday.
Keninplacitas, CVT stands for Continuously Variable Transmission, not Constant Velocity Trans. You don't want a constant velocity trans LOL. My $0.02 is, I would wait until maybe the 2nd model year before buying an Audi CVT car since Audi is not known or famous for CVT. When Honda put out its CVT Civic they had problems with the first year models. On the other hand, it's true that a non quattro car is lighter, but like many people out there that say, why buy an Audi if it's not Quattro equipped? OK maybe you like the features and styling, but Quattro is like 50/50 weight split in a BMW. It's like if a particular new BMW is not 50/50, why buy a BMW?
Billy
How much longer you'll have to wait depends on where in the country you are. If I remember right, the port is in Baltimore, so the closer to Baltimore you are, the shorter your wait should be. I'm in the Louisville area; I ordered my A4 in mid-April and took delivery in mid-July. The paperwork apparently involves all kinds of releases from port to shipper, shipper to dealer, etc., plus the paperwork that the dealership prepares to make sure you've got the car you ordered and to sign the car over to you. Don't worry -- it will be worth the wait! And congratulations, by the way; it sounds like you just beat the deadline for special orders!