I ordered my Avant 2.8Q the first week of May and took delivery last Wednesday (Philadelphia area). So I'd guess you're just a few days away from that important call from the dealer. I posted my initial reactions on the Avant board (which appears to be going stale). You will definitely be pleased after the long wait. Also I had heard that the cars also come in through Houston and Boston.
I'm glad to say I am now part of this club. Just got my new black A4 1.8T Quattro, celebration package, and cold weather package on Saturday. I love it; however, I didn't test drive too many other cars to compare it too. All I have is my 93 civic and a Maxima that I test drove around the block (a 2 minute non aggresive test drive). Obviously much better than the civic. I was quite tempted to go for the Maxima since there are great deals on the 2001's and rear seat room is much better, but your young only once. I just didn't feel "cool" in the Maxima.
I just wonder whether I should have waited for the 2002 especially after reading keninplacitas' post. I also may have paid $500 to a $1000 more, but I guess over four years that isn't going to be a big deal($26,500-close to Edmund's TMV). I will definitely be replacing before the warranty is up. I love the 4 yr/50,000mile warranty. Peace of mind.
Sachin, welcome to the club! Hope your new A4 will quickly put any of your doubts to rest. They're truly awesome cars, and after owning one for only a month I understand why A4 owners are so enthusiastic about them. Also, for what it's worth, many of us here actually prefer the smaller dimensions and sportier lines of the current A4, so congratulations on owning a vehicle that's been widely praised for its aesthetics and engineering! (Not that the 2002 model isn't impressive in its own right.) You'll have to let us know about your early impressions of the car. Again, welcome!
Yeah, I know what you mean Sachino. I just put money down on a 2002 A4 and now they're announcing that they're coming out with the new A4 convertible. Always a day late and a dollar short. I've been running into this type of problem with just about everything, especially in the world of technology (and as you've probably noticed in earlier postings, I'm sort of a 'toys' kind of guy). It seems I'm always buying some great new technology gizmo, only to find out a few weeks later that my gizmo is virtually obsolete.
I'm about to order an '02 A4 also. I've never ordered a car before, just bought what I liked on the lot. So if you (or anyone else) don't mind answering what is the process, forms and etc for ordering a car? Also did you get a good deal or MSRP?
The last time I purchased a car that wasn't already available on the lot was in 1965 when the new style Corvair came out. I paid MSRP for that (no good deals with a hot new model car). I loved the car though so it was worth it.
They don't have the MSR Prices on the 2002 A4 yet but I fully expect to again be in a position where it will be very difficult to 'deal' with my car dealer.
By the way, the dealers have 2002 A4 color samples and fabric swatches to select from now.
My dealer, by the way, heard that there are 2002 A4s that are already in port in the U.S. but are on some kind of 'hold' status.
If don't have an emergency need for a new vehicle right away, I wouldn't order early from any dealer. Everyone I know who has never got a price better than MSRP. They know your hot for the vehicle so there's no reason for them to deal down. Wait a few months if you can.
Unless the A4 has a reputation for being out of stock all the time - is this the case?
Yeah, you're right mirth, March or April of the next year would typically be a much better time to purchase (at least that's usually the case). Of course, if the 2002 A4 becomes a really hot seller, then it will be hard to get a good deal even at that time. My personal concern (other than the fact that I want mine NOW), is that, with the amount of driving I do, the value of my present car will diminish to where I'd end up taking a loss anyway.
Guys, sorry to take so long to report back on the headlight question. In a nutshell, I've struck out. I've done quite a bit of research in the Audi World archives, but I keep finding contradictory information. And I don't have enough technical knowledge to figure out who's accurate and who isn't. At this point I'm planning to just ask about it when I take the car in for its 5,000-mile service, which will be in a few months. In the meantime, I can live with the anemic headlights. I know you guys have looked into the matter, too, so thanks so much for your time and effort. I'll let you know what I find out eventually.
Well I finally have something tangible on the 2002 A4. I got a "preliminary" brochure today with all the colors and standard and optional equipment. Some very nice new colors, but as you would expect its hard to visualize what they will look like on the actual car. I thought that ESP was going to be standard on the 1.8 and 3.0 but I don't see it mentioned here. There is something that they are calling "Electronic Differential Lock (EDL)" as standard equipment. Does anyone know if this is the same as ESP just with a new name ?
I just answered my own question because in looking at the 2001 brochure the 1.8 and 2.8 both have EDL. So EDL is something else and is not the same as ESP. Still I don't see anything about ESP in this "preliminary" brochure, not even as an option.
I stopped by the Audi dealer today to drop off contact info. My plan was simple, I left one of my business cards with the options I wanted written on the back. I planned to do this at most of the dealers in an expanded area. I told this one that I wasn't paying MSRP, but if/when they could use a sale, that they could give me a call. Assuming I hadn't already bought another dealer's A4 or the '02 BMW 325 and we could come to terms then I would be ready to buy.
He then tells me to follow him and leads me to the back to the service department. As we're going he says that they have an A4 here. We get to the back, and he asks some of the service guys were it is, but they say it just left. He ask when it's due back and they don't know. He then tracks down the service advisor and quizzes him, and while I didn't here this conversation the result is that the A4 is not available for now. I didn't ask any further questions about when it would be back or whatever because for one I'm pessimistic by nature and had trouble believing it was there. I kept wondering was this all an elaborate charade, but since I have AudiWorld photos of an '02 A4 supposedly from Boulder, CO, it's not that big a leap that there could be one here too.
Add to that the fact that I was told that there would be one here around the 19th for training, and I could not come up with a good reason for deception. So in other words I missed seeing the new A4 by what appears to be a half hour. Now the 2nd part of the adventure is that as we're heading back to his office he wants to pull up his current allocation and see if he has anything coming in that matches what I want. I mentioned that I read (somewhere) that 85% of Audi's sold have quattro, he says that's pretty true on the the higher engines. He mentions however that the dealership sells loads of 1.8Ts and they're pretty split at a 50/50 ratio. The end result is that he pulls his allocation sheet, finds one close to what I want, logs on and changes the config for the car, attaches my name to it, and tells me it should arrive mid to late January.
I like the timing of the car's arrival because there are 2 statistical periods when you can get a good deal on a car. The first is during model close out and the second is leading up to and right after Christmas. Plus when you factor in that some of the car's initial car lust should be winding down, St. Nick could be bringing me a late xmas present.
Just read that VW for 2002 models is bumping hp to 180 for the 1.8T engine in the Golf GTI, Jetta, Beetle.
The VR6 engine will get a boost to 201 horses in the Golf GTI and Jetta.
Is Audi getting the same boosts in horses? If not what is VW doing? Nothing like having your more sedate models besting your more luxurious and sporty models.
Drew37, EDL is standard even on the 2001 models. It's function is to provide traction at low speeds, and to provide traction when only one wheel has traction. ESP provides traction at higher speeds, and will brake individual wheels AFTER you lose traction in certain wheels to bring the whole vehicle back to the intended turning curve. Hope this helps you.
Clivedavies, I thought the new A4 has already been selling in UK or Europe for like a year now, right? Dunno how close the European and the US models will be. However I noticed one thing that needs to be changed.....the "caved in" area for the license plate on the trunk. It's a longitudinal area for the European plates, but here in US we have more square plates. We will see how that goes.
Nitpicker, geez Karen, you must be loving your A4 so much :> Which is understandable, everytime when I get rental cars for my business trips I so much look forward to get back to Chicago and jump in my A4 :>
Binyan, I dunno how valid that salesguy was telling ya about their new A4 there. You know, they can be so full of it. I forgot where you live, but here in Chicago nobody has reported any sightings yet. I would assume they will send a few cars here cuz of the extensive 7-strong Audi dealerships here. I will, however, see an actual new A4 and drive one in the Audi Quattro Challenge here in Chicago on Sept 8. If you can wait another 3 weeks before then, I can post some pictures here cuz i'm sure I'll take tons of them there.
Shawn325i, yes you read right. VW just screwed up in trying to make the VW's more luxurious and powerful. In another twist, they will put a W8 engine in a new Passat that will pump more horses than all the engines in the new A4's. The published figures for the new 2002 Audi's are still 170hp for the 1.8T engine and pumped up 3.0 V6 engine that puts out 220hp. However, I have heard creditable sources saying the 1.8T engines actually put out 180hp in all Model Year 2001 engines in the A4, Jetta, New Beetle and GTI's.
7870 miles and counting.....still flawless and runs like a champ.
about the coming Passat and can understand to some degree that VW wanted a true competing flagship model, but to put more horses in the whole line up makes only sense if they inturn pump up the horsepower in the Audi lineup.
I guess this was one of the reasons why I picked the 325i over the A4, VW is bringing their models more upstream while bringing the Audi lineup more downstream. I wished they wouldn't do that!!
There have been several recent threads on AudiWorld with the most recent saying that Audi in a few weeks will authorize its service guys to reprogram the ECU's of the engines to 180 HP. Rumors also hang that there will be no more ECU's available on the aftermarket as Audi is planning to do there own performance chips. To me both have a ring of truth. One Audi does have (for the time being) the perception of being higher than VW, and VW boosting the 1.8T engine 30 HP above Audi takes some of the premium away. I can find no fault with VW, as they are simply trying to continue to increase their sales volume, and if it wasn't for the build issues I repeatedly read online I would now be the owner of an '02 VW Jetta with the 180 HP tiptronic engine. I tested the engine and it runs sweet, although the turbo lag is noticeable.
Nah, the fault is with Audi and their desire to make an engine, put it in a line of cars and then the only difference is the software version in the ECU. They really don't have a leg to stand on when the aftermarketers do it better. Audi had first shot and missed. Now the 2nd rumors seems credible too, because Audi sees all the money their losing due to chipping. So the simplest thing for them to do with no real work on their part is to certify several of the chip makers and slap an Audi approved logo on the chip. Audi will get a cut of every chip sold, plus money fron the chip makers being in the certification program, and car buyers won't void their warrantties.
Thanks for the info. My main point was that there is no mention of ESP as either standard or optional equipment in the brochure I have for the 2002 A4.
Drew37, you welcome. That's interesting, cuz I was hearing all the time that 2002 owners are boasting that they will get ESP as standard equipment. Maybe AoA forgot to mention that in the prelim data sheet, which I find it very ridiculous if that's the case.
Well I dunno how true it will be for Audi to authorize chip manufacturers. Rather, I would think there's a higher chance that Audi will come out with their OWN chip. Why not take in the whole profit margin instead of separating it between themselves and the chip tuners? Also Audi can condemn the other chips as "illegal" and will void the warranties for people who install the "other" chips. Of course the next step will be claiming their own Audi chips as the only legal chip and will NOT void the warranties.
I agree that Audi will likely want the whole shebang, I was simply stating that the simplest thing they could do was bless the chips so to speak and they would have a new revenue stream with no real overhead. Plus it leaves the chip makers in business and Audi can use them as a proving ground for outside R&D.
If it helps, all new A4's in the UK have ESP as standard and I would guess the same is true for the US model.
"Electronic Stability Programme (ESP) networks the ABS, EBD, ASR and EDL system components, by comparing actual driving data from sensors with reference data. ensures greater stability at all speeds, by braking individual wheels as required and overriding the engine management system" (Audi UK Brochure)
All 3.0 litre A4's in the UK are available as quattro only, although in Europe there is a 3.0 litre fwd only.
The VW's may be increasing in power, but they don't have the handling properties of the A4.
Gee, I'm doing a better job now of not posting as much! :-p Interesting discussions going on and I miss not participating but I've got to cut down on the time I spend on message boards.
Yesterday as I was driving, I tried some higher speed manuevers and tried to kick the rear end out a bit in attempt to see what the ESP would do. I didn't notice anything strange going on. My question is: does the light on the dash activate when the ESP starts to contol the loss of stability? ...how does one know when it is actually doing its intended work? I know that an indicator on the dash lights when I turn the ESP switch off but when it's on does the same light activate when the system starts "doing its thing?"
Karen-- Thanks for your posts over on the Forester board! We think alike in a lot of areas. :-p ...I guess I'm a nitpicker at heart also *lol* Now, as far as the ratings go: I rate the Forester a 5 and the A4 a 9 on a scale of one to ten. Initially, I probably would have rated the A4 about 7 but the more I drive it the higher rating it gets... who knows, in time I may even rate it a 10! As for the Forester, I think it may just go in the opposite direction... the more I drive it the more I find things to complain about. Having driven both cars this week-end, as Ken said before, there's no use in even comparing these "apples and oranges." The A4 just feels good when driving it... I mean, you just want to keep driving it. You hesitate just a bit when getting home because you just want to stay out and drive it a little more. Well, I guess everyone here knows the feeling. The Forester, on-the-other-hand, just doesn't feel "right" for some reason. I just don't feel one with it. It feels cheap ...although functional and relatively well made, it just doesn't have the substance or the refinement of the A4. Let's face it, the Forester is a typical Japanese econo-car ...nicely put together and probably very reliable but just doesn't have any character as far as I'm concerned. I look at the dash controls, the instrumentation lighting, the cupholders (of all things!), the feel of the switches and different controls and it's definitely NO A4!!! I hear and feel the sound of the engine and it's definitely NO 1.8T!!! (feel the sound?? *lol* well, you get my drift). That annoying drivetrain lash is so characteristic of an econo-car ...the A4's drivetrain is as smooth as silk! ...how lovely that is!!! I'm so glad I didn't buy a WRX because I'm sure that it would give me the same impressions. The message boards I've read on the WRX's drivetrain lash really make me cringe but those owners are so enthralled with all that power that it doesn't seem make that much difference to them that it is jerky and unrefined power --they just want that raw power! Oh man, how I love my A4! ...and it's only an '01, just imagine how much praise I'd heap on the '02 if I ever got the chance to drive one of those! No, I'm really satisfied with my '01 and hope to get many satisfying miles out of it. Karen, you made the right decision! You might have been happy with a Forester but you'd miss out on this very unique feeling of being an owner of an Audi! I don't think you'd even have the urge to write haiku about a Forester after having driven your A4! *lol* Now, about those headlights: yeah, I too poured over the archives at Audiworld and several other BMW and MB messages boards and probably found the same type of inconsistencies and confusing details that you found. I also did some research on HID and Xenon lighting in various publications. I'll still give you some sites you can look at if you'd like but I don't know how much good it would do you at this point. My conclusion is that it is of course better to convert entirely to Xenon and to do it right. I've read many problems (as you probably have too) when people try to cut corners in the conversion. Actually, some of the stories were pretty horrifying. Of course, the cost of doing the conversion correctly may be out of the question. Just as anything else, it's better to order the car with the option than later trying to add it. I found that out when seeing how much it would cost to convert everything over to the sport package configuration. It's at least twice as much to do it afterward. I'll continue to do some research on non-Xenon alternatives because I'd like to do something about the Forester's headlights because they sure look dim when comparing them to the Xenons in the A4. But if it will make you feel any better, the fancy new Passats and the A6s without the Premium package have the exact same headlight configuration as you do. Even the standard BMW halogen projectors look pretty pathetic. But anyway, I'll still keep in touch with anything new that I may find.
I gather from U.K. sources that the MRSP for the 2002 A4 3.0 will be in the order of $55,000 Cdn or about $37,000 U.S. I know that this subject has arisen frequently in discussion on this board. Has anyone got anything different on this?
Clivedavies, thanks for the input. I would think it's wise for Audi to put ESP in the new 2002 A4's, especially when most high-end vehicles have traction control as standard.
Scirocco, I guess you can wait until winter when you can test your ESP out.....I would think you can see it at work then. Oh by the way, I guess you (or we all) are spoiled by the A4 in terms of driving excitement and refinements. I was driving a Volvo V70 wagon with all the goodies and I was like, geez it's nice but I'd rather drive my A4. I don't know what I can drive to make me feel that the other vehicle is better than my A4.....probably an A8 or an Allroad??
Lintoronto, USD$37,000 for a 2002 A4 3.0? That'll be a little increase over a similarly well-equipped 2001 A4 2.8. I remembered seeing a sticker price of $35-36k for a fully loaded 2001 A4 2.8, so it's not too much if Audi is only asking for $1-2k more than the 2001 model with all the additional stuff. Thanks for the info.
Wow Clive, so it's actually cheaper for the new model huh.....well but have you taken account into the optional equipment? Or are those just prices with no optional equipment? I was going to say, those prices are pretty reasonable, as I thought UK prices are usually higher because of VAT, etc.. Thanks for the info, as this might be the first time I heard or saw real figures.
Mmcbride, I think so far all we've heard are rumors. Haven't seen anything official yet, but I will definitely ask at the Quattro Challenge next month and let y'all know.
lauk0dg..those are UK on the road prices with NO optional extras. Price includes VAT at 17.5%, delivery charge, full tank petrol, number plates, road fund licence and initial registration fee.
The 3.0 Quattro basic price (before VAT and the above) id £20,587.23 (US$29,000).
If you want auto that will cost you a further £1,400.
I got an extra 6.5% discount by negotiating with the dealer.
Quick question for you A4 owners. Any problems with brake dust on the wheels of your A4? I have this problem with my current car, and I'm considering the A4 for my next.
Ian-- Every week or two?? Jeez, I gotta wash my rims just about after every time I drive it!
Billy-- I thought you said that the more miles you pile on the less brake dust you have? Man, it seems like you shouldn't have any brake dust at all now considering how much you like to drive that thing! ;p ...I finally have past the 1,500 mile mark!
I gotta ask this question again: I'm coming up on 6 months. Do I have to go in for my 5,000 mile service ("5,000 miles/6 months, which ever occurs first) even thought I have only 1,500 miles on the car to keep the warranty in tact?
Rocco -- Are you serious about only 1500 miles? The way you love to drive that thing? I think I did 1500 miles in about one month -- and I work at home!*lol* By the way, sorry to hear that the Subie has been a disappointment; maybe it'll be easier to appreciate this winter when the roads are slushy and you don't want to take the A4 out in the mess. Or hey, I hear there's a hot market for Foresters in California -- any chance you could recoup most of your expense by unloading it there? Or would you even want to? If you had to do it all over again, what would you choose for your second vehicle? BTW, thanks for the long post about headlights. I'm going to sit tight for the time being and will plan on asking about it when I go in for the 5000-mile service.
Billy -- From time to time you've mentioned the rental cars you get on business trips. Have you ever gotten a rental that you were pleasantly surprised with? And along that same line: Did you ever expect a rental car to be pretty good and end up being really disappointed in it?
Ian -- Yeah, I think you have to be covered in brake dust to qualify for this forum. I end up washing my rims about every 300 or so miles. So far it's a labor of love, but I might not feel that way when the temperature is around 40 and I'm trying to ward off frostbite just to keep my wheels clean.
Yesterday, I became a new owner for Silver w/ Onyx cloth '98 A4 1.8T Quattro 5 speed w/ 40K miles. What a fun little car! I can't even wait to get out of work and start driving it Besides the above mentioned options, the car has sport package, sunroof, Concert audio system (Bose, 6 disk CD changer), trip computer and heated seats. I got it for $16,735 + TTL. Hope the ownership experience will be as pleasant as the one I had with my '91 Acura Legend (hardly any problems, never been stranded, etc...).
Scirocco, well yeah i think i have less brake dust, but still tons of it.....I bet with 8,000 miles on this A4 I have more brake dust than my Accord has ever given me in its 120k lifetime. Lightly waxing the rims makes it easier to clean the brake dust off though.
Karen, well I would say I didn't expect much from the Ford Escape but it amazed me....from the interior to the fuel economy, to the ease of driving this SUV-sized vehicle even it has a higher center of gravity. The one that I thought I hit the jackpot but in fact a piece of crap.....I'd say it's the Ford Mustang. Engine wise it's ok (the lowest 190hp one), but handling is just terribly wrong. Way too overrated and it doesn't feel as "planted" to the ground as an A4. Taking it fast around a curve and you better work on driving during oversteering. Visibility out of the cabin is bad because of the height of the instrument panel. That said, almost NONE of the rental cars of Ford, GM or Chrysler are exciting to drive. One time I got a Mazda Protege and it's even more exciting to drive than boring Tauruses, Grand Am's or Intrepids. Of course the last one, the Volvo V70 wagon, was a gem to drive, although I'd hope it has the turbocharged engine in it.....amenities inside were very nice though.....I heard in Florida, you can actually rent FWD A4's from Enterprise.....wouldn't be a bad idea but it'd be awesome if they're Quattros.....then you can cruise on the beaches at Daytona Beach.....
Stan, welcome to the family! I too switched from an Acura ('89 Integra, 5-speed, 116k hassle-free miles), which in itself was a fun little car. In fact, I loved that car and was a little paranoid about making the Acura-to-Audi switch. I've only had the A4 about a month, but wow, what an awesome little car this is!!! I have never been this nuts about a car, and I am so glad I rolled the dice. Sounds like you got a really nice deal on your A4; you'll have to give us your impressions as you get to know it better. Hope it continues to bring you lots of happiness!
Zach-- Yeah, that's what I have in mind. I've already checked into the Mintex. I just hesitate in throwing away perfectly good brake pads ...but if it means saving myself hours of dusting my wheels, then maybe it's worth it!
Karen-- Maybe I'm just being too nitpicky *smirks* but I just may be giving the Forester an unfair evaluation. Like I've said, I'd probably be relatively impressed with it had I not already been driving the A4. As Billy said, it (our A4s) spoils us into thinking that nothing else compares. And no, *lol* I'm not thinking of getting rid of it (quite yet)! I sometimes think that I should have just bought a small Toyota pick-up or something. The Forester is really a lot smaller than I thought it was and I don't really know if it's going to accommodate the cargo that I might want to haul in it. As far as alternatives if I had to do it all over again, maybe the Escape/Tribute especially when reading what Billy had to say about the Escape ...I really like (both) their looks. But the reason I chose the Forester is that, no matter what, it offered the most bang-for-the-buck in that it had most of the things and possessed most of the features I was looking for with a price that seemed pretty reasonable. For the same price, the Escape/Tribute wouldn't have offered as much as the Forester not to mention the reliability factor ...same and be said about the Liberty. The Rav4 was pricy and even smaller than the Forester. Another thing going for the Forester is that it is structurally safe and has a far less chance of tipping than any of its competitors. So maybe, with all things considered, the Forester is the best choice I could have made. *has a slight puzzled look* And *lol* yeah, I'm embarrassed about how few miles I have on the A4 considering how much I like driving it. I've only gone out on relatively short stints aside from occasionally driving it to work. The longest trip was actually home from the dealer which was about 100 miles away. I gotta go out and drive it more! Even though I make it a point to warm the engine and give it substantial revs when I do have it out, I should get it out on the highway for a long drive one of these days in order to burn the impurities out of the engine. I'm cognizant that I'm doing it harm by just doing city driving and not really giving the engine time to get hot for a long period. Okay, I'm going to have to work on that... I'm ready!! *smiles*
Scirocco, yeah you better drive the A4 more :> I guess if you have 2 cars in the household and sounds like you do all the driving, you won't put that many miles on 1 car.....oh I remember you saying if you should wait to do your 6 month-5000 mile service. I have no clue on this as everybody I know drive their A4 or S4 almost 50% more than that 5000 mile in that period here.....maybe post that question on AW or ask your dealer?? About the Mintex, if you can let us know how much they are, I'd appreciate that. Yup I agree on the analysis on the Escape....it's nice to drive when it's a rental, but I don't know the longevity of it. How about a Honda CR-V? Full time AWD.....and it's a Honda :>
I've read some posts about the aftermarket xenons that they aim kinda high even people adjusted the aiming screws. Sounds like without the auto levelling they can be dangerous to other motorists. I'm still hitting myself for not getting stock xenons.....
About switching to Mintex (or any other) brake pads: I've read some postings on AW from people who said their brakes didn't perform as well once they started using different kinds of pads. I think the A4 brakes are just about perfect (in terms of performance, not dust) and would be reluctant to switch for fear of compromising performance. Just my $0.02....
seems to be a lot of people who are serious sport enthusiasts. I wonder if people like me who like to drive a bit quickly sometimes but mostly just commute would notice a difference with the brake pads. You know what I mean...I'm a math teacher, not a race driver, and punching the accelerator on an interstate ramp won't change that. Would I really know the difference?
VW might split their brands into two, as they informed the analysts they are considering it.....Audi will be part of the "Aggressive" group which means Audi will be cousins of Lamborghini and Seat, while VW will be with Bentley and Skoda in the "Conservative" group. Quoted, ".....Audi and Seat are viewed within the company as being in need of a breath of fresh air, say observers."
So let's see, do we get a discount when we upgrade to a Lamborghini??
By the way, for brakes, I agree with what you guys said.....guys in AW auto-X and stuff like that and yeah the way they work their brakes, they will definitely feel the difference. For our application it might mean the same or slightly more brake pressure to achieve the same braking power. My only concern is, some guys were mentioning they have the "wet braking" issue.....meaning the braking power was significanly less when they apply the same pressure and brake in the rain.....I haven't experienced that in the rain but I don't know if that might happen if we use Mintex pads.....
is it safe to assume that $26,500 is fair for a 2001 1.8t quattro w. leather, sunroof, alloys and cd? Are there any offers being made currently for leases? any help is appreciated.
Hi folks. Here's another 2 cents worth on the subject of A4 brake dust. When I bought my Audi Fox in '76 (1st generation of our present cars), my only complaint with it was that irritating black brake dust. When I got my '82 4000, same thing. My current 2000 A4 makes the car wash people smile every time they see it coming ($2 extra for extra clean wheels). Now, here's hoping that finally after a full quarter century of design innovation, Audi has found a way to keep the wheels looking good (I'll let you know). I suppose I should mention though, that at no time did the brakes ever let me down regardless of weather or road conditions. Also, they consistently get good grades from the reviewers.
NOTE: If I remember correctly, it was the removal of Asbestos from brake pads that resulted in the need to live with those irritating side effects from the new materials in order to experience equivelent stopping power.
Comments
I ordered my Avant 2.8Q the first week of May and took delivery last Wednesday (Philadelphia area). So I'd guess you're just a few days away from that important call from the dealer. I posted my initial reactions on the Avant board (which appears to be going stale). You will definitely be pleased after the long wait. Also I had heard that the cars also come in through Houston and Boston.
-Barry
I just wonder whether I should have waited for the 2002 especially after reading keninplacitas' post. I also may have paid $500 to a $1000 more, but I guess over four years that isn't going to be a big deal($26,500-close to Edmund's TMV). I will definitely be replacing before the warranty is up. I love the 4 yr/50,000mile warranty. Peace of mind.
They don't have the MSR Prices on the 2002 A4 yet but I fully expect to again be in a position where it will be very difficult to 'deal' with my car dealer.
By the way, the dealers have 2002 A4 color samples and fabric swatches to select from now.
My dealer, by the way, heard that there are 2002 A4s that are already in port in the U.S. but are on some kind of 'hold' status.
Unless the A4 has a reputation for being out of stock all the time - is this the case?
You can check the details and the spec on www.audi.co.uk for the european model range.
Turbo boost, wheels that grip curves.
A winding road: yahoo!
He then tells me to follow him and leads me to the back to the service department. As we're going he says that they have an A4 here. We get to the back, and he asks some of the service guys were it is, but they say it just left. He ask when it's due back and they don't know. He then tracks down the service advisor and quizzes him, and while I didn't here this conversation the result is that the A4 is not available for now. I didn't ask any further questions about when it would be back or whatever because for one I'm pessimistic by nature and had trouble believing it was there. I kept wondering was this all an elaborate charade, but since I have AudiWorld photos of an '02 A4 supposedly from Boulder, CO, it's not that big a leap that there could be one here too.
Add to that the fact that I was told that there would be one here around the 19th for training, and I could not come up with a good reason for deception. So in other words I missed seeing the new A4 by what appears to be a half hour.
I like the timing of the car's arrival because there are 2 statistical periods when you can get a good deal on a car. The first is during model close out and the second is leading up to and right after Christmas. Plus when you factor in that some of the car's initial car lust should be winding down, St. Nick could be bringing me a late xmas present.
The VR6 engine will get a boost to 201 horses in the Golf GTI and Jetta.
Is Audi getting the same boosts in horses? If not what is VW doing? Nothing like having your more sedate models besting your more luxurious and sporty models.
Clivedavies, I thought the new A4 has already been selling in UK or Europe for like a year now, right? Dunno how close the European and the US models will be. However I noticed one thing that needs to be changed.....the "caved in" area for the license plate on the trunk. It's a longitudinal area for the European plates, but here in US we have more square plates. We will see how that goes.
Nitpicker, geez Karen, you must be loving your A4 so much :> Which is understandable, everytime when I get rental cars for my business trips I so much look forward to get back to Chicago and jump in my A4 :>
Binyan, I dunno how valid that salesguy was telling ya about their new A4 there. You know, they can be so full of it. I forgot where you live, but here in Chicago nobody has reported any sightings yet. I would assume they will send a few cars here cuz of the extensive 7-strong Audi dealerships here. I will, however, see an actual new A4 and drive one in the Audi Quattro Challenge here in Chicago on Sept 8. If you can wait another 3 weeks before then, I can post some pictures here cuz i'm sure I'll take tons of them there.
Shawn325i, yes you read right. VW just screwed up in trying to make the VW's more luxurious and powerful. In another twist, they will put a W8 engine in a new Passat that will pump more horses than all the engines in the new A4's. The published figures for the new 2002 Audi's are still 170hp for the 1.8T engine and pumped up 3.0 V6 engine that puts out 220hp. However, I have heard creditable sources saying the 1.8T engines actually put out 180hp in all Model Year 2001 engines in the A4, Jetta, New Beetle and GTI's.
7870 miles and counting.....still flawless and runs like a champ.
Billy
I guess this was one of the reasons why I picked the 325i over the A4, VW is bringing their models more upstream while bringing the Audi lineup more downstream. I wished they wouldn't do that!!
Nah, the fault is with Audi and their desire to make an engine, put it in a line of cars and then the only difference is the software version in the ECU. They really don't have a leg to stand on when the aftermarketers do it better. Audi had first shot and missed. Now the 2nd rumors seems credible too, because Audi sees all the money their losing due to chipping. So the simplest thing for them to do with no real work on their part is to certify several of the chip makers and slap an Audi approved logo on the chip. Audi will get a cut of every chip sold, plus money fron the chip makers being in the certification program, and car buyers won't void their warrantties.
The 1.8 is already on UK roads and the 3.0 auto is being built now. RHD 3.0 Quattro Manual (stick shift) starts next month (so the dealer tells me).
So I have to wait!till October.
Looks good in dolphin grey and denim blue!
Well I dunno how true it will be for Audi to authorize chip manufacturers. Rather, I would think there's a higher chance that Audi will come out with their OWN chip. Why not take in the whole profit margin instead of separating it between themselves and the chip tuners? Also Audi can condemn the other chips as "illegal" and will void the warranties for people who install the "other" chips. Of course the next step will be claiming their own Audi chips as the only legal chip and will NOT void the warranties.
Billy
"Electronic Stability Programme (ESP) networks the ABS, EBD, ASR and EDL system components, by comparing actual driving data from sensors with reference data. ensures greater stability at all speeds, by braking individual wheels as required and overriding the engine management system" (Audi UK Brochure)
All 3.0 litre A4's in the UK are available as quattro only, although in Europe there is a 3.0 litre fwd only.
The VW's may be increasing in power, but they don't have the handling properties of the A4.
Yesterday as I was driving, I tried some higher speed manuevers and tried to kick the rear end out a bit in attempt to see what the ESP would do. I didn't notice anything strange going on. My question is: does the light on the dash activate when the ESP starts to contol the loss of stability? ...how does one know when it is actually doing its intended work? I know that an indicator on the dash lights when I turn the ESP switch off but when it's on does the same light activate when the system starts "doing its thing?"
Karen-- Thanks for your posts over on the Forester board! We think alike in a lot of areas. :-p ...I guess I'm a nitpicker at heart also *lol* Now, as far as the ratings go: I rate the Forester a 5 and the A4 a 9 on a scale of one to ten. Initially, I probably would have rated the A4 about 7 but the more I drive it the higher rating it gets... who knows, in time I may even rate it a 10! As for the Forester, I think it may just go in the opposite direction... the more I drive it the more I find things to complain about. Having driven both cars this week-end, as Ken said before, there's no use in even comparing these "apples and oranges." The A4 just feels good when driving it... I mean, you just want to keep driving it. You hesitate just a bit when getting home because you just want to stay out and drive it a little more. Well, I guess everyone here knows the feeling. The Forester, on-the-other-hand, just doesn't feel "right" for some reason. I just don't feel one with it. It feels cheap ...although functional and relatively well made, it just doesn't have the substance or the refinement of the A4. Let's face it, the Forester is a typical Japanese econo-car ...nicely put together and probably very reliable but just doesn't have any character as far as I'm concerned. I look at the dash controls, the instrumentation lighting, the cupholders (of all things!), the feel of the switches and different controls and it's definitely NO A4!!! I hear and feel the sound of the engine and it's definitely NO 1.8T!!! (feel the sound?? *lol* well, you get my drift). That annoying drivetrain lash is so characteristic of an econo-car ...the A4's drivetrain is as smooth as silk! ...how lovely that is!!! I'm so glad I didn't buy a WRX because I'm sure that it would give me the same impressions. The message boards I've read on the WRX's drivetrain lash really make me cringe but those owners are so enthralled with all that power that it doesn't seem make that much difference to them that it is jerky and unrefined power --they just want that raw power! Oh man, how I love my A4! ...and it's only an '01, just imagine how much praise I'd heap on the '02 if I ever got the chance to drive one of those! No, I'm really satisfied with my '01 and hope to get many satisfying miles out of it. Karen, you made the right decision! You might have been happy with a Forester but you'd miss out on this very unique feeling of being an owner of an Audi! I don't think you'd even have the urge to write haiku about a Forester after having driven your A4! *lol* Now, about those headlights: yeah, I too poured over the archives at Audiworld and several other BMW and MB messages boards and probably found the same type of inconsistencies and confusing details that you found. I also did some research on HID and Xenon lighting in various publications. I'll still give you some sites you can look at if you'd like but I don't know how much good it would do you at this point. My conclusion is that it is of course better to convert entirely to Xenon and to do it right. I've read many problems (as you probably have too) when people try to cut corners in the conversion. Actually, some of the stories were pretty horrifying. Of course, the cost of doing the conversion correctly may be out of the question. Just as anything else, it's better to order the car with the option than later trying to add it. I found that out when seeing how much it would cost to convert everything over to the sport package configuration. It's at least twice as much to do it afterward. I'll continue to do some research on non-Xenon alternatives because I'd like to do something about the Forester's headlights because they sure look dim when comparing them to the Xenons in the A4. But if it will make you feel any better, the fancy new Passats and the A6s without the Premium package have the exact same headlight configuration as you do. Even the standard BMW halogen projectors look pretty pathetic. But anyway, I'll still keep in touch with anything new that I may find.
--'rocco
Scirocco, I guess you can wait until winter when you can test your ESP out.....I would think you can see it at work then. Oh by the way, I guess you (or we all) are spoiled by the A4 in terms of driving excitement and refinements. I was driving a Volvo V70 wagon with all the goodies and I was like, geez it's nice but I'd rather drive my A4. I don't know what I can drive to make me feel that the other vehicle is better than my A4.....probably an A8 or an Allroad??
Lintoronto, USD$37,000 for a 2002 A4 3.0? That'll be a little increase over a similarly well-equipped 2001 A4 2.8. I remembered seeing a sticker price of $35-36k for a fully loaded 2001 A4 2.8, so it's not too much if Audi is only asking for $1-2k more than the 2001 model with all the additional stuff. Thanks for the info.
Billy
(US$ at 1.41 to the GBP)
3.0 Quattro £24,840 (about US35,000)
2.5 TDI Quattro £24,345 (US34,325)
1.8T Quattro £21,210 (US30,000)
1.9TDI £19,895 (US28,000)
1.8T £19,810 (US28,000)
2.0 £18,640 (US26,200)
Last year we would have paid £28,000 (US40,000) for a 2.8 Quattro so Audi has lowered UK prices and improved the spec.
Mmcbride, I think so far all we've heard are rumors. Haven't seen anything official yet, but I will definitely ask at the Quattro Challenge next month and let y'all know.
Billy
The 3.0 Quattro basic price (before VAT and the above) id £20,587.23 (US$29,000).
If you want auto that will cost you a further £1,400.
I got an extra 6.5% discount by negotiating with the dealer.
Billy-- I thought you said that the more miles you pile on the less brake dust you have? Man, it seems like you shouldn't have any brake dust at all now considering how much you like to drive that thing! ;p ...I finally have past the 1,500 mile mark!
I gotta ask this question again: I'm coming up on 6 months. Do I have to go in for my 5,000 mile service ("5,000 miles/6 months, which ever occurs first) even thought I have only 1,500 miles on the car to keep the warranty in tact?
--'rocco
Billy -- From time to time you've mentioned the rental cars you get on business trips. Have you ever gotten a rental that you were pleasantly surprised with? And along that same line: Did you ever expect a rental car to be pretty good and end up being really disappointed in it?
Ian -- Yeah, I think you have to be covered in brake dust to qualify for this forum. I end up washing my rims about every 300 or so miles. So far it's a labor of love, but I might not feel that way when the temperature is around 40 and I'm trying to ward off frostbite just to keep my wheels clean.
Besides the above mentioned options, the car has sport package, sunroof, Concert audio system (Bose, 6 disk CD changer), trip computer and heated seats. I got it for $16,735 + TTL.
Hope the ownership experience will be as pleasant as the one I had with my '91 Acura Legend (hardly any problems, never been stranded, etc...).
Karen, well I would say I didn't expect much from the Ford Escape but it amazed me....from the interior to the fuel economy, to the ease of driving this SUV-sized vehicle even it has a higher center of gravity. The one that I thought I hit the jackpot but in fact a piece of crap.....I'd say it's the Ford Mustang. Engine wise it's ok (the lowest 190hp one), but handling is just terribly wrong. Way too overrated and it doesn't feel as "planted" to the ground as an A4. Taking it fast around a curve and you better work on driving during oversteering. Visibility out of the cabin is bad because of the height of the instrument panel. That said, almost NONE of the rental cars of Ford, GM or Chrysler are exciting to drive. One time I got a Mazda Protege and it's even more exciting to drive than boring Tauruses, Grand Am's or Intrepids. Of course the last one, the Volvo V70 wagon, was a gem to drive, although I'd hope it has the turbocharged engine in it.....amenities inside were very nice though.....I heard in Florida, you can actually rent FWD A4's from Enterprise.....wouldn't be a bad idea but it'd be awesome if they're Quattros.....then you can cruise on the beaches at Daytona Beach.....
Billy
Zach-- Yeah, that's what I have in mind. I've already checked into the Mintex. I just hesitate in throwing away perfectly good brake pads ...but if it means saving myself hours of dusting my wheels, then maybe it's worth it!
Karen-- Maybe I'm just being too nitpicky *smirks* but I just may be giving the Forester an unfair evaluation. Like I've said, I'd probably be relatively impressed with it had I not already been driving the A4. As Billy said, it (our A4s) spoils us into thinking that nothing else compares. And no, *lol* I'm not thinking of getting rid of it (quite yet)! I sometimes think that I should have just bought a small Toyota pick-up or something. The Forester is really a lot smaller than I thought it was and I don't really know if it's going to accommodate the cargo that I might want to haul in it. As far as alternatives if I had to do it all over again, maybe the Escape/Tribute especially when reading what Billy had to say about the Escape ...I really like (both) their looks. But the reason I chose the Forester is that, no matter what, it offered the most bang-for-the-buck in that it had most of the things and possessed most of the features I was looking for with a price that seemed pretty reasonable. For the same price, the Escape/Tribute wouldn't have offered as much as the Forester not to mention the reliability factor ...same and be said about the Liberty. The Rav4 was pricy and even smaller than the Forester. Another thing going for the Forester is that it is structurally safe and has a far less chance of tipping than any of its competitors. So maybe, with all things considered, the Forester is the best choice I could have made. *has a slight puzzled look*
And *lol* yeah, I'm embarrassed about how few miles I have on the A4 considering how much I like driving it. I've only gone out on relatively short stints aside from occasionally driving it to work. The longest trip was actually home from the dealer which was about 100 miles away. I gotta go out and drive it more! Even though I make it a point to warm the engine and give it substantial revs when I do have it out, I should get it out on the highway for a long drive one of these days in order to burn the impurities out of the engine. I'm cognizant that I'm doing it harm by just doing city driving and not really giving the engine time to get hot for a long period. Okay, I'm going to have to work on that... I'm ready!! *smiles*
--'rocco
I've read some posts about the aftermarket xenons that they aim kinda high even people adjusted the aiming screws. Sounds like without the auto levelling they can be dangerous to other motorists. I'm still hitting myself for not getting stock xenons.....
Billy
So let's see, do we get a discount when we upgrade to a Lamborghini??
By the way, for brakes, I agree with what you guys said.....guys in AW auto-X and stuff like that and yeah the way they work their brakes, they will definitely feel the difference. For our application it might mean the same or slightly more brake pressure to achieve the same braking power. My only concern is, some guys were mentioning they have the "wet braking" issue.....meaning the braking power was significanly less when they apply the same pressure and brake in the rain.....I haven't experienced that in the rain but I don't know if that might happen if we use Mintex pads.....
NOTE: If I remember correctly, it was the removal of Asbestos from brake pads that resulted in the need to live with those irritating side effects from the new materials in order to experience equivelent stopping power.