Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I have a '00 GM GS w/handling package, and so far am averaging around 22-23 mpg, 75% of which is highway. This may improve, as the car is barely broken in yet.
Anyway, I do have a question for the folks that know: what is the life expectancy of the rear air suspension? Has anyone had any major problems with it? Just wondering..
Thanx
I love this car and want to run it into the ground, but have heard rumors that I want to check on -- someone I know who sells Fords told me that Ford will soon reserve the CV for fleet sales only. Personally, I saw his comments as a ploy to get me to buy from him -- sooner rather than later. As I went back through this topic and the previously archived one, I've seen much discussion about this rumor. If anyone has any new info, please enlighten me. If the CV will be beyond me anytime soon I need to know so I can start "working" on my wife to approve the purchase of a new car.
Thanks in advance for any info.
1. 2000 transmission is smoother with no shudder (95 had shudder between 40
& 45 mph).
2. 2000 seems to stay in overdrive longer at lower speeds than 1995 (I guess to
improve gas mileage).
3. 1995 had heated side mirrors, 2000 does not.
4. 1995 had button on inside drivers door to release fuel filler door, 2000 has
eliminated this and replaced with a plastic plug to fill hole next to trunk
release.
5. 1995 had carpet on under side of trunk lid, probably did not provide much
sound insulation, but was nice touch usually found on more expensive
automobiles.
6. 1995 full size spare option came with matching wheel, 2000 full size spare
option comes with black temporary wheel.
7. 1995 came with wheel lock key, 2000 has no wheel lock key (probably not
needed anyway).
You can see where the automakers cut corners to cut cost. If Ford saves $100 per vehicle and sells 100,000 units, Ford saves $10,000,000. I am sure that the Mercury folks thought noboby would notice or that 1995 GM owners are probably dead anyway (I am 41). Even with some of the above changes I still think the CV/GM are great cars for the money.
Next time I'd ask for an estimate ahead of time and when the ridiculous prices start flying, go to the parts store and do it yourself, or go to another shop. If you don't ask for a price before the work is done, they can basically charge you anything they want and there's almost nothing you can do about it at that point. Once a mechanic touches your car, he essentially owns it until you pay his bill in full, and he can sell it to pay off the bill if necessary, so you have no power at that point.
I started with a brand-new 99 Crown Vic standard model with the dual exhaust. Then I added the following functional modifications: a Superchips software-programmable engine control module which optimizes the ignition timing and fuel mixture for 92 octane gas; a 3.73 rear axle gear to replace the stock 3.27; a K&N air filter with the airbox snorkel removed; Bilstein gas-charged shock absorbers. Performance result: zero-to-60 in 8 seconds flat, approximate peak HP around 235 (up from stock 215); city MPG around 15; highway MPG around 20; suspension feel is very taut but not harsh; RPMs at 65 MPH cruising still feels relaxed despite the lower rear axle ratio. The mechanic programmed the Superchip for a top-speed engine cutoff at 135 MPH (instead of the stock 115 MPH). I have not yet gotten around to changing the stock S-rated touring tires to V- or Z- rated tires. It passed the Pennsylvania emission test with flying colors. The factory warranty should not be adversely affected.
A few cosmetic changes round out the package: Light window tinting (not "gangster" tint). Steel wheels with center caps ordered from a Ford dealer. A black grille to replace the ugly stock chrome one (also ordered from the Ford dealer; it is listed in the parts catalog as "police/fleet application"). I lowered the rear suspension 1 inch by bending the air-ride position sensor bracket(ride quality is unchanged, but I had to re-aim the headlights). Also had installed a Unity door-mount utility spotlight (these are legal for civilian vehicles, but don't be shining it into other cars). An external cellular phone antenna and CB antenna are finishing touches.
Total cost for all these modifications: about $3500. The "road presence" cannot be beat.
Also, an academic question: what's the top speed of the standard car? 108 MPH?
Actually, setting up the car was a lot of fun. The idea was inspired by the "Lounge Lizard" project car from the November 1998 issue of Car and Driver. Kenny Brown Peformance sells a supercharged cop car rendition of the Crown Vic. (There must be a market segment of people as eccentric as I). Mine looks very similar (and is also black); however I did not want to spend $5000+ on a supercharger. Check it out Kenny's creation at
http://www.kennybrown.com/panther.html
and at
http://www.kennybrown.com/crownvic.html
I can't help thinking it's ironic that you are removing premium alloy wheels and replacing them with plain steel rims. A bunch of people do the opposite, but I've never heard of going that direction. How about sending your take-offs to me?
It runs great, but gas mileage is about 16 in town, and not more than 21 on highway. Is anything wrong with this car, or such a mileage may be considered as normal?
I would appreciate your replies to yuryk@cucor.com
Yury
99crownvic: The C+D Lounge Lizard project replaced their front springs with the P71 ones before lowering the rear. Did you cut your front springs or get P71 parts? If so...where?
I am very interested in doing the spring and shock swap. The 00P71 I just rode in was very nice. Not harsh at all at low city speeds, yet very tight at 1**mph. I'm continually amazed that these guys run up over curbs on a daily basis and then go on a high speed run...try that with a standard performance car. The officer mentioned something about the 00PI having a different engine...as far as I know they haven't put the DOHC engine in there yet...anyone?
I never did like the laced-spoke alloy wheels that came with the car. They collected a lot of dirt and brake dust within a few miles and were hard to clean. I know some people like those alloys, but I thought they were ugly. I ended up selling the alloys on eBay.com to a guy in Wisconsin who paid me $450 plus the shipping. When my current tires wear out, I intend to replace them with 235/60/R16 rubber which will fill up the wheel wells a bit more, although it will also throw off the speedometer calibration a tad.
Regarding springs: I left the front springs stock (meaning the ones that came with the 41G handling package). With the Bilstein shocks, the ride is plenty firm. The sway bars are also stock 41G. Stiffer springs (or cut-down springs) in combination with the Bilsteins I believe would have made the ride harsh and begun to induce body rattles and squeaks. In fact, with the stiffer shocks I notice the body will make flexing noises (creaking) on an abrupt undulating dip in the road. I would have preferred the reinforced frame of the true PI (or the welded-on tubular reinforcements of the Kenny Brown Lizard). But I could not justify the $$ outlay with my style of driving.
About the 1 inch rear drop: Indeed the car has a tail-down attitude. But if you look carefully at a real PI, they also have drooping tails. I think it actually gives the car an aggressive look, as if it is squatting down, ready to spring into motion. (To me, a nose-down/tail-up car looks like it's stopping under braking.) The real PI uses coil springs in the rear instead of air bags. I like the load-leveling feature of the air-ride.
I think my car strikes a much better handling/comfort balance than the real PI. Plus the Superchips/K&N/3.73axle combo actually makes mine a bit faster--though admittedly I have not put that to the test d;-)
Thank you!!
That GM does indeed have traction control, and also ABS.
For the 1998 Crown Vic and Marquis the traction control and ABS brakes were only sold as a bundled option. For the 1999 model year (the year I bought my Vic) the traction control was sold separately, and ABS was standard equipment. I opted not to get traction control on mine.
The button in the glove box on the 1998 is to temporarily deactivate the traction control. If you shut the motor off and crank up again, the traction control will be on again.
The only driving experience I have had with traction control on a Ford panther platform vehicle was when I drove a rented Town Car in southern California. No snow, of course. There was a light on the dashboard that illuminated for a few seconds whenever the system activated in response to wheelspin. I noticed it was very sensitive to even minute amounts of wheelspin, and would kick in if you were accelerating out of a driveway where there was some gravel or sand on the pavement. I do not know whether that TownCar also had a limited slip rear axle.
I have read in magazines that the traction control might slightly decrease the responsiveness of the car in spirited dry-pavement driving, especially in combination with an open differential; however, it should help in the wet or snow or ice.
I would think that traction control (which retards the spark and also cuts the throttle) might be best when combined with a limited slip differential. I believe they are sold separately.
You should check to see if the 98 GM you are considering also has a limited slip differential. If the dealer is not sure, ask him to put the car on the lift with the transmission in park and the parking brake off. Turn one of the rear wheels with your hands. If the other wheel turns in the opposite direction, you have an open (i.e. not limited slip) differential.
Here's a question for the group: is the traction control sophisticated enough to actually apply the brake unilaterally to a spinning wheel in addition to just cutting power(like the Mercedes system or the Cadillac Stabili-Track does)? I don't know the answer.
Regarding the combination of LSD with TCS (sounds like a drug cocktail), these are offered as mutually exclusive options, so you won't see them together on a CV unless the LSD was added as an aftermarket upgrade, which I would consider highly unlikely unless the car was previously owned by 99crownvic ;-)
I don't know any of the technical specifics about the police steering gear, except that it's described as providing "enhanced road feel" in the owner's manual.
The Lesabre was nice, and it definitely wins in the gas mileage department, but after years of unit body, front wheel drive vehicles that includes a Buick, several Chryslers, Hondas and VW's I personally had had enough of that and appreciate a car that actually has a frame and is driven by the wheels that God intended You don't know how much I DON'T miss torque steer.
That and the fact the the majority of LeSabres on the 2 Buick lots near me were stickerd out at close to or above 30k...that was just too much. My GM GS was stickered a bit over 25k and bought at 100 over invoice less a 1500 rebate...a true bargain for what you get. Also, the Buick sales idiot was surly at best, and I don't think took my interest in the LeSabre seriously since I'm 37 and not 65+ like most of their customers.
Anyway, best of luck with your LeSabre and happy motoring!
The Buick will develop a typical mushy feel to the suspension. The engine is noisier, and various plastic chrome parts in the interior will begin to peel. The seats will begin to get soft and you can feel the rails beneath. With 4 people it will drag it's rear or bottom out unless you have a high end ride height control. The valves are noisy and mine had several electrical relay problems.
The GM had brake rotor warp problems which are fixed by the 1998 larger brakes they are now using. The GM rides firmer, but doesn't sag under weight of people or luggage. The ride has been consistent througout the 100K miles I've put on it. The Buick gets mushier as you go. The Buick gets 29mpg, the GM 27. The buicks transmission has needed rebuilding before 100K, the Merc needs the trans oil changed every 30K miles to keep it from shuddering.
Next car will be a GM, although I really haven't had alot of "problems" with the Buick, it just doesn't hold it's driving characteristics or ride quality throughout it's like like a GM. I also like the safety factor of the GM being a 5 star, and mine was cruched once, and I was indeed inpressed with how much of a lick it took for teh condition it was in.
I beleive the current LeSabre was recently crash tested by NHSTA and scored impressively as well as the CV/GM. I also believe the LeSabre offers a safety feature the CV/GM does not: side impact air bags. Although they look smallish and lack any head protection.
The car looks great on paper, and it certainly is popular, but I blieve Consumer Reports dinged it in some way. I can't remember the details, but I think it was on reliability, and maybe seat comfort. CR still recommends the CV/GM.
I'd say the LeSabre is a close match for CV/GM. It's probably good for both to have some close competition. I'd bet the Lesabre's graceful lines appeal to more people, which may a primary reason it's the best selling full sized sedan. I certainly didn't buy my CV based on good looks, but it's one of the most important considerations for most buyers.
1. Is there any particular dealer in the Chicago area (I'll be in Lombard, about 20 miles west of Chicago) that gives solid service? Any I should avoid?
2. Are Crown Vics used by local police or State troopers in Illinois? If so, are there any particular colors used by law enforcement?
3. How can one tastefully tint windows? I understand there is something called "gangsta tint"??? How can I avoid looking like either a gangster or one of Illinois's finest? (I have to admit, however, that some CV police cars I've seen look very sharp.)
4. How long will I have to wait for the 2001 CVs to roll out of the great white north?
Thanks a zillion.
I'm not sure what color all the local cops use, but a little further out in the western suburb of Schaumburg, where I visit occasionally, I believe they drive white Crown Vics. That is a relatively common color for police agencies throughout the country, especially those in small cities or towns. The other colors won't look especially cop-like expept maybe black or whatever your town's police use. My personal favorite is silver metallic.
The 2001 CV's? That's the $64 question. Usually they come out around September or October, depending on production and shipping delays. Sometimes there's an early introduction. Count on having a few to choose from in September, and plenty by November. I don't think even Ford can give a better estimate than that. The big question in my mind is whether it'll be a new style for 2001 or if it will wait until 2002 as some say.
One question I have is whether all civillian CV's get the same EPA numbers, or if they have a different one for the P&H cars. I think the sticker reads the same, doesn't it? If so, I would think the P&H cars would really be rated similar to the Police version if they were actually tested by EPA with that option, since both have the same rear axle ratio. I don't think there are other significant differences with the PI that would affect it's numbers in the EPA test relative to civillain CVs. Police cars do have a slightly higher idle speed, but this shouldn't affect the test much becasuse I think the test just includes driving.
This is just an FYI for those who have asked about mileage with the P&H package. I would expect about 1 to 3 fewer MPG.
I would love to see FMC update the styling of the full size Ford/Merc. It needs a little more than a face lift (The Grand Marq is handsome however) but it missed out for a decade. Come on Ford do something.
My main recommendation is drive a NEW model of both of these cars there have been major improvements on both since the early 90's. Happy motoring.