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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005
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http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5650&sid=173&n=156
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/carkeys/
"2004 Pontiac Grand Prix
3.8-liter V-6 w/ Eaton supercharger
260-horsepower
$23,000 - $30,000
While trucks are king, General Motors is making it clear that it's still a car company at heart, as its prepares a complete overhaul of its mid-size sedan lineup. First out of the gate, the 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix.
Looking nearly identical to the G-Force show car, the '04 Grand Prix is largely all-new. The biggest visual change is the lack of body cladding, and the cleaner and sharper coupe-like profile. The wide track look is more hunkered down, especially in the top line GTP trim.
While the base GT is powered by a carryover 200-horsepower 3.8-liter V-6, the GTP ups the ante to a 260-horsepower 3.8, a 20-horsepower gain, by way of a new Eaton supercharger. For maximum grip, a new Comp G package adds lightweight 17-inch wheels, V-rated tires, retuned suspension, Magnasteer II steering, and StabilTrak. To manage power to that grip, Comp G also adds TAPshift steering wheel shift pedals for the sole transmission, a 4-speed automatic. Unlike some Formula-One-style pedals, TAPshift requires the driver to take control. It won't upshift for you.
The new Grand Prix provides total performance, including unmatched sedan versatility. The split-fold rear seat is huge, if spartan, and when combined with the available front folding passenger seat, allows objects up to 9 feet long to be hauled with the trunk closed. Rear doors also open nearly 90 degrees so oversized cargo can be loaded from the side. With this car you may not need a minivan or SUV.
And when the 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix goes on sale in April it will have prices that put an SUV to shame, from about $23,000 for the GT, to around $28,000 for the GTP. Even with the Comp G package, the sticker should still be under 30-grand.
And when you compare the new Grand Prix to mid-size car favorites Accord and Camry, it simply out classes them in everything from velocity to versatility. If this is how GM plans to revitalize its car business, the Grand Prix is a great start."
I wish the new GP had dual zone a/c though, I would miss that feature.
Maybe if enough of us write in(from their website) they'll add it?
- http://webevents.broadcast.com/gm/concept2003
- http://webevents.broadcast.com/gm/cadillac2003
- http://webevents.broadcast.com/gm/atpv2003
- http://webevents.broadcast.com/gm/chevrolet2003
:^(That's why so many domestic vehicles have such low resale values. They have to take too big of a chunk out of the price when new, and a few years down the road, it's worth pennies. Rebates are terrific when buying new overall, but they do have setbacks.
They had 3 '04 GPs that you could sit in and touch. This car looks better in person than the pictures already shown.
The interior is a major upgrade over the old one. I liked it a lot.
The engine, in blown format, is the "new series III" version of the 3.8L. Noise and vibration has been given an upgrade. HP is 260, torque is 280. The outside is a "smoothed" version of what we've already seen.
Looks like a winner. I actually liked it better than the GTO.
In general, the crowds were milling about the "Big 3". Honda looked to be empty by comparison. Mazda made a big splash by letting us sit in the pre-production version of the RX8. It'll be a winner.
Nissan had crowds around the new Maxima ("Butt ugly") and the 350Z.
Ford made a huge splash with the new Mustang.
Long and short of it, Ford, GM, Chrysler, Mazda were the big winners. Toyota and Nissan were moderately interesting. Honda/Acura areas were like tombs in comparison. There were a lot more people milling about the Camry than the Accord.
If that's any indication, Honda will be doing an update for the new current Accords and Civics in pretty quick fashion. The Element matches the Aztec in "ugliness" and looks cheap.
I doubt the new GP pricing will be much different than the old. A GT should be in the range of a V6 Accord or V6 Altima. The GTP should be in the Maxima range.
Toronto show is just a few weeks away. Can't wait to see this new GP.
I imagine a loaded GTP will be upwards of $30,000 US dollars.
We will find out soon.
In fairness, there werern't many people milling about the Taurus, either (but that's an older design).
I suspect that Pontiac is trying to appeal to a broad audience in snagging those that may be looking at a "CamCord" or Taurus on up to those looking at a Maxima. The Maximas interior is upgraded to the point where it could be an Infiniti. The front end looks like it was "in a fight and got it's nose pummelled".
No pricing on the GP was announced but the "party line" on the floor from GM people was "GP prices will remain stable", depending on model. I think the GTP will come in under 30 (as the current one has an MSRP of around $28K loaded). Throw in the typical GM rebates and the inevitable dealer discounts, I suspect a GTP could be had for somewhere near $25K with HUD and Stabilitrac.
No doubt it will handle better and be faster than what's comparably being sold by Nissan, Honda or Toyota.
On pricing, I'm betting a loaded GTP will push $30k, and adding the Comp G package will push it over. I base this on current pricing and then extrapolating $2.5k to $3.5k for the Comp G goodies. (That would mean ~$31k-$33k range for MSRP which is not an unreasonable estimate based on what they want for the Limited Edition Package which has no performance items.) I think they need to watch it as that pushes up closer to $34k-$35k which will get one a loaded G35 sedan/coupe or BMW 3 series and you can get a manual shifter. Perception and reputation as they are, I hope Pontiac is not loosing site of the portion of the potential GP buyers that want the top end performance. (Pontiac's specified competition is Intrepid, Accord, Maxima, Altima... I think buyers of the GTP, GTP w/Comp G moves into a bit different buyer territory.)
The PDX auto show starts Thursday and I'm told GM was planning to have both the new GP and GTO there. I'm excited to go and see all these new rigs in the flesh. I saw some pics of the new Maxima and it has a bit of a Passat look to me. I haven't cared much for the styling of the last couple of Maximas. I'll take a close look at the new Accord at the auto show, but from the pics and commercials the new "sleaker" lines, pointy lights and taillights give me an impression of "cheaper". I'll reserve final judgment until I see it in the flesh.
ruski - I saw the Motorweek episode and remember they mentioned their impression for pricing. However when I look at what a loaded 2003 GTP is and what is added in the Comp G package.... I'm skeptical it'll stay under $30k. We should know in a few weeks. If a loaded 2004 GTP w/Comp G package can be had for under $30k I think Pontiac will really be onto something.
Just a thought.
He said that most new mid-size cars out there make use of soft plastic everywhere, not selectively anymore. This selectivity is what turned me off about the Altima, among other things.
I skipped the GP once for the interior materials once, although I've always liked its styling, handling and performance. The new one is even nicer inside and out and I was envisioning it as my future ride...
I'll hold final judgment until I do a test drive myself though.
At $30K one could easily go for something more luxurious - Acura TL(-S), Infiniti G35...
Is Pontiac getting the same disease that struck Volkswagen? (let's just make them more expensive and people will think that they are as good as Benzes)
I am very fond of cars, but I can't convince myself to pay more than $30000 on a car out of the door.
I want to buy more and more of a car for less and less, not the other way around. The last two cars I've bought were from GM, mostly because of the value I perceived in them, meeting my needs of performance for the cost I was willing to pay.
I can only go by what the GM representatives told me at the auto show....that is a loaded GTP would come in well under $30K. Don't know if that includes the "comp package" or not, though.
Looking at what GM has been doing the past 18 months or so, the "discounted purchase price" would probably be somewhere around $27K.
Considering that they are still holding to "sticker" for an Accord around here and Camrys selling for over $30K for a V6 XLE, the GP GTP looks like a bargain.
I'm guessing that GM won't offer any rebates on the new GP for the first 6 months.
Decent I think.
It has never been an aurally-pleasing engine. Given that this is a Pontiac, some exhaust note is part of the deal, and it's rough, raucous.
Even the torque, usually this engine's strong point, seemed a bit overwhelmed by the Grand Prix's weight.
The supercharged version is predictably stronger and shouldn't be affected by the thinner atmosphere, but even it runs out of puff at much over 4500 rpm."
Maybe Lutz approved the 2004 Grand Prix and is giving it a 3 year cycle. Maybe they will have an all new one by 2007.
I think Pontiac should have made the 3800 an SE and the supercharged version a GT or GTP. Given the horsepower today's V6 sedans have, there is nothing GT about a 200 hp 3800 powered GP. I think GM needs to get a new 240hp+ ohc engine in that car pronto. That said, I still like the looks of the car and the interior is fine. Don't care about back seats as I don't sit in them. If they sell (as i suspect they will) the GT for the price of a 4 cyl Accord, it will sell fine.
I will be taking a very close look next Monday at the Toronto Auto Show. Are you planning on going?
Back seat is a concern for me because I end up with adult clients/customers in there pretty frequently.
I remember how smooth and smart my '98 GTP's tranny was.
I also remember how my Acura TL-S' tranny broke at 6,100 miles and had to be replaced.
Why, as I learned here earlier today, every Honda ever made or to be made is superior to every GM product that could EVER be built.
Must be true.
I read it here.
(And the above was bitter sarcasm, in case you didn't notice!)
Yes, I agree, any mfr. can produce a few lemons (ask me about the Oshawa-produced '96 Monte Carlo Z34 that I bought after the '92 Accord EX; was nearly killed in it the 4th time it died at speed, and only Chevy would give me more than 10 cents on the dollar for it; hence the '98 Malibu). Also, every mfr. can slip-up with a particular model. The current Civic Si is produced in Britain and is a disaster (bad choice on Honda's part, but they did it to appease the "teenage" (in body or mind) [non-permissible content removed] hot-rodders). I'm talking about AVERAGES, not a one-by-one case. As far as the Intrigue, I recall that a few years ago either MT or C&D did a long-term test on one and that too was mediocre. And I have one friend and one close relative with GPs (one '98, one '00) that are in the shop nearly as much as I am. Personally, I don't know of anyone with a Honda or Toyota with much of any problems, but there is always an exception or 2....
The last ('03 and prior) GP and Intrigue had no fewer parts than my Mailbu. They were all conceived about the same time, i.e. mid -90's.
So that you all are clear: I'M NOT TRYING TO KNOCK GM! I'm simply trying to get a feel for more recent GM experiences and wait with great anticipation your comments on the new GP, especially from those of you that buy one. Thanks, Harry
My neighbor bought a Ford Windstar because it was highly rated by CR, only to see it stall in the highway and have the tranny replaced. Interestingly, the Windstar showed up as a car to avoid a year later...
Then, when I considered an Accord, checking out the discussion in Edmunds, I was baffled to see owners argue that an optimistic fuel gauge is not an issue. I started wondering what such owners would put into CR survey card...
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4733&sid=19- - 2&n=156