Toyota Avalon 2004 and earlier

dylan383 · April 2003

I've tried to tell people who boast about camry, maximas, passat's etc. that the big selling point besides its drivability, is the Avalon's big back seats! We almost bought a van but a van was just too big for everyday use with one child. I love the avalon!

edmund2460 · April 2003

Dealer in NC wants $32.5K for Avalon XLS with GV package, moonroof and traction control. This is a demo with 5200 miles. Is that a good price? ALso I heard pronounced wind noise from the drivers side at highway speeds. It wasn't real bad but I thought the Avalon was supposed to be very quiet.

bwia · April 2003

For a demo with 5,200 miles, the price should be at $6,000 less. Check out http://www.carsdirect.com for a quick price check. A brand new fully loaded XLS is priced at about $31,500, so your NC dealer is all wet or he believes you are not a serious buyer.

kicker9 · April 2003

Ed, you should be able to get a NEW 2003 with all the goodies except navigation for just under 30,000. I paid 29,000 for mine, white diamond less the traction control or sunroof.
A common ploy buy all dealers to try and sell a demo as a new car (because it hasn't been registered), don't fall for it. If you buy it and bring it back a few months later with 5000 miles, see what happens to your trade-in value, now it's a used car having lost 20% or so of what you paid. Even the [non-permissible content removed](made in Kentucky) cars take a big hit the first year.
The wind noise isn't offensive in my car unless the windows are down, definitely coming from those huge mirrors, they could have been made a little more aerodynamically.

footie · April 2003

Edmun2460,

North Carolina is one of the states where Toyotas are distributed to local dealerships through South East Toyota located in Atlanta and Jacksonville.

In 2002, SET processed 219,457 cars, trucks, vans and sport utility vehicles at the Port for its 165 Toyota dealerships in Alabama, Florida, Georgia and North and South Carolina as well as Lexus dealerships in the southern region. The JM companies that run this operation are the 13th largest private company in the U.S. with an estimated annual revenue of $7.8billion.

They didn't get that way selling Toyotas at low margin.

I am sure that this company is proud of its operations and accomplishments and feel that what they do for consumers is of value.

Normally, automobile markets can be very competitive when there are competitive distribution systems. But I feel the deal in the SET area is a lot like Microsoft - a benevolent but expensive dictatorship.

Since they monopolize Toyota distribution in these states, they can add stuff to the 'sticker' that wasn't on the cars leaving Toyota manufacturing facilities. They do this and pass the costs on to their dealerships. They pass it on to you.

This breaks the normal 'invoice' plus pricing model that is so effective elsewhere in the U.S.

If you were to compare stickers at your Toy Store with those at a dealership in Boston, you would see that they sometimes "load up" cars with stuff straight out of the 1970's.

My favorite is the infamous

"Toyoguard Protection Group" - which stickers for $619
Exterior Paint Sealant
Toyo Guard Sealant Cleaner
Interior Fabric Protector
Undercoating/Sound Shield
Glass Etch Theft Deterrent

(sounds like it came from the factory right? - SET "installed" at the "port" of Jacksonville or Commerce Ga).

How much fabric is there in that Avalon XLS? And if the paint needed 'sealing' I feel it would be done by Toyota in Kentucky. Can you imagine a company like Toyota with a fetish for perfection delivering cars that require paint sealant. Duh? I think you get the message...

If you check their option lists, they often put on "upgrade wheel packages" and other non-Toyota stuff. All designed with your pocketbook in mind.

My recommendation would be to head north to Virginia and buy a Toyota. You can go to Kay Jennings Toyota ( kjtoyota.com ) just south of D.C. and speak to a very knowledgeable person there named Steve Clifford.

If you really want to shop hard, try Turnersville Auto in Turnersville, NJ just east of Philadelphia. They consistently advertise new Avalons on their internet specials page for Invoice + or - a couple of hundred bucks.

Drive it back to NC and enjoy getting to know one of the best car values on the planet.

Good luck

dylan383 · April 2003

I agree with all of the above messages. You can contact one of those dealers via their internet salesman and get invoice plus or minus a few hundred. The idea of driving the car home a little distance to enjoy the car is a good one.

matthew525 · April 2003

Bought the wife an 03 XLS with a sunroof, sunroof deflector, white pearl paint, floor mats, cargo mats, first aid kit, glass breakage sensors, cargo net, wheel locks, and GV premium interior package ($29,076 before TTL). Estimated that this price is ~$215 below invoice. I know you can still get this deal at invoice....worth the drive?

haley7 · April 2003

Does anyone have comments on Head Room and Leg Room for 2003 model. I am 6'4" and would be purchasing model w/out a sunroof. Any comments from tall drivers with first hand experience is welcomed.

dylan383 · April 2003

There's plenty of leg room head room; I'm tall as well and this is the first car where I can enjoy being in the back seat as well.

2099 · April 2003

I am also tall (6'6") and have plenty of room in a 2002 Avalon XLS in both the front and back seat. I tried most car models for fit and this is the best by far in the back seat. Some of the larger Buicks have as much front room as the Avalon, but the seats are NOT supportive and the rear seat room is miniscule when the front seat is all the way back. My Avalon has a sunroof and I still have adequate headroom.

haley7 · April 2003

Thanks 2099 and dylan383 for your comments. The specs on the seating and headroom actually show the measurements as less than the camry for front head room and leg room.

I do not want to buy a car that I regret in a few months due to cramped leg and head room.

nomad56 · April 2003

Go get in them! Jump on the seats. See how they feel when you put them on! My friends ALWAYS tell me "You're driving!", when we go out because I have the most comfortable car. This includes a BMW "3" series and Benz "E" class as some of our options! ...and a 6'3" 275 pounder! -nomad-

luffnutt · April 2003

The door pillar tag says 32f/32r on my 2003 Avalon XLS. When I had it serviced for the 1000 mile oil change, it came back with 34f/32r on the OEM Michelin Energy MVX4+ and I liked the ride better. Did not seem much harsher in the ride but it seemed to handle better on the turns and it also seem to roll along better on the straight aways. So, figuring more is better, I am trying 36f/34r for the fun of it. Talked to a service representative and he said it will be okay until you drive on a really hot day, so far it has barely got up to 60 degrees. He was intimating that the ride would get too harsh when the 80's and 90's come this Summer. Has anyone in this room experimented with tire pressures?

dylan383 · April 2003

I know the sizes posted are deceptive because once you get inside of an avalon you'll see the difference in room between an avalon and a camry.

nomad56 · April 2003

LuffNutt-I too prefer the "harder" tire. The HOT temp comment is because heat expands air...therefore, increasing your tire pressure even more. Monitor them regularly, regardless! ...and don't let them get too hard.

In addition, monitor tread wear. More wear on the outside edges of the tread=tires are too soft. You are more likely to see more wear at the center of the tread pattern, which is "tires are too hard." If this treadwear discrepancy is rapid, my opinion is you are running 'em way too hard. If the differences are slight, your overinflation is probably not too aggressive(IMO).
NOTE: This variation in treadwear gives you an idea of how the contact patch is affected(across the tread) by PSI. Additionally, contact patch is affected front to back with changes in tire pressure. Too high a pressure greatly reduces your contact patch!! This can obviously become a problem. ...which leads to:

Increasing PSI's effects on "performance", include: ***REDUCED braking, as in INCREASED braking distances.*** Though, it can increase MPG and may effect Over/Under steer.

NOTE: When you measure PSI matters too. If you do a lot of short local driving, you are usually on cool tires-measure 'em "cool", or after a short trip. If the car gets plenty of activity, and tires are usually at a higher operating temp, measure at THAT temp.

travelerjb · April 2003

Over the last 30 years of driving I've owned no less than 8 new cars. On ALL of them I have always kept the tire pressures at exactly 35psi cold measured first thing in the morning after sitting all night. I've noticed over the years that it has given "perfect" wear characteristics for edge and center wear and allowed all tires used, regardless of brand or size to last the longest with the most even wear. So with that said I keep all my tires at THAT tire pressure and ignore the so called "factory" recommendations as typically they are several psi low to allow for a cushier ride, very typical of what is the consumer wishes....

luffnutt · April 2003

Thank you nomad56 and travelejib for your very useful helpfull comments. At one time I was going to be a Mechanical Engineer, but the Dean "Pink Slipped" me and I ended a "Shop Teacher." Somehow I still have the "Engineer Mind Set" which gets me into trouble sometimes. If somthing doesn't work, I try to fix it, and if I can't fix I tear it apart to try and figure out how it works. I was hell on clocks when I was young. My feeling is that most suggested tire pressures are too low, trading comfort for ecomomy. Of couse when we bought the Avalon it was to replace an '89 Cadillac, read pillow barge, but now my wife and I turned 70, carving canyon roads is no longer a priority.

dave210 · April 2003

I'm not sure if this was just covered but my 2000 Avalon XLS has about 44,800 miles on it now.

Anyway, I notice now the ride is not nearly as smooth as it used to be, and after going over a couple speed bumps today, I actually heard the front suspension squeak.

Plus, it feels like the front end bottoms out whenever I go over a pot hole or rough railroad tracks

Is this a sign the car needs new shocks, struts, or something else, and if so, should I go the Toyota route?

All I know is, right now, my wife's Acura MDX is a much better riding vehicle.

Thanks!

travelerjb · April 2003

Indeed some vehicles may exhibit loss of suspension stability with time depending on what they have been subjected to. I've always successfully tested for the need of new shocks/struts by pushing down on each front and rear corner of the vehicle and see if it rebounds more than 1 time. If so I have the shocks replaced. If you do this on a new vehicle you'll soon see it only rebounds "maybe" one time and that's it. The Acura is a more rigid ride to begin with so I don't consider it a fair comparison at all. I'll take the Avalon ride anyday thanks. If I wanted a truck I would have bought a truck. I'm not sure if the 2000 model is any different but I'm sure happy with the 2003xls..........

18fan · April 2003

Check the air pressure in the front tires. Many times, low tire pressure in front will cause the symptoms you described. Certainly the easiest and cheapest way to begin investigating the problem!

-18fan

nomad56 · April 2003

Dave there has been a LOT of suspension discussion here..if you have some time search through 'em. Bottom line-if you think something is WRONG...have your dealer inspect it. There are a lot of variables and it can be very hard to diagnose. FYI, the most common-a "knocking" noise and common problem with the front suspension in the Avy is "top strut mounting plates" aka: strut tower caps. ..hard to diagnose without the right equipment. (ie: you have to remove it)

The "sueak" you mention could be anything, since there are a LOT of parts that MOVE with suspension. There may be a worn bushing in a control arm...if it's worn enough, this could also provide your knocking sound??????

Finally, look at sway bar bushings, for the squeak. Your sway bar "rotates" within two RUBBER bushings at the front of the car. If they are dry or worn, metal on rubber squeaks when it moves! Hope this helps -nomad-

edmund2460 · April 2003

for price info. We're still shopping. All of you should be complimented on your choice. We're looking for quiet and ride comfort, something that people seemed to have forgotten about in my estimation and the Avi is a fine car in this respect.

lorainemax2 · April 2003

I have a 2000 XLS with 46,000 miles. My ride got the same way yours did until I replaced the original Michelin's with a new set. Now back to as good or better than new.

Apparently the Michelin's get rock hard with wear and age.

edmund2460 · April 2003

One more question, when did Toyota last make any major changes to the Avalon?. (I know there is a remake coming - next year?) but is the 2002 identical to the 2003? How about 2001? Thanks again.

fin · April 2003

The big change in the future of Avalon is this: They may QUIT making them! All who read here will appreciate the comments of the Toyota sales people and other dealer employees as to future Avalons. Is it true? Or is Honda trying to start a rumor...? Love my 2003 XL. It's better than the '99 XL was, so far. And the '99 was perfect, except for a stoplight bulb burnout. Are we really supposed to buy a Camry? Surely not.. Enjoy your Av.

cliffy1 · April 2003

No plans that I have heard of to discontinue the Avalon. There should be no change for 2004 but a total redesign for 2005.

mwaddo · April 2003

I was pricing out a 2003 XL on the Edmunds page, and I noticed something strange (at least I think so).

Pkg GK has a TMV of $2,247. However, Pkg LT has a TMV of $2,056, and contains everything GK has...and then some.

Is there something switched here?

Thanks

thepope1 · April 2003

Took your advice (#2112) and checked out Edmunds 'Insurance' section. Lots of stuff there concerning the 'top two' issuers of this type of insurance - comments almost equally divided between "Love My Extended Warranty" to "What a Rip-off".

Based on this info and the price quoted to take me to 100,000 miles, I decided to trust the Avalon's great quality and go it alone. From past experience, I know that Toyota sometimes extends coverage beyond the stated confines. Hope I have carefree future driving. Thanks for the help.

travelerjb · April 2003

Now some of you might call me a nut case, or one that just doesn't care how he spends his money, but as a traveling salesman who covers parts of 20 States most of the year, I put a bit of mileage on my cars, and buy them new. The first thing I do when the car comes off the delivery truck is drop the oil and put in Mobil One Fully Synthetic Oil. Yep that's right........even for the so called "break in" period. This "polishes" in the rings and they will seat better than any other method could possibly allow for as the tolerances remain VERY tight. Less friction has some big time advantages. NO I do NOT use synthetic oil to extend the changing periods......for me it's ALL about wear ONLY. Now with that said at the end of my year (usually sometime in January) I have a dealer drop ALL (yes that means ALL) of the fluids in the car and replace them with new fresh. I use fully distilled water for the coolant flush setup to avoid hard water corrosion of the internal parts. Every 3 years I have them replace the coolant hoses as they can look perfect from the outside and cruddy inside. I maintain my vehicles. That's why they have NEVER broken down on me nor given me ANY service issues during their typical 250,000+ mile life before I sell them to some lucky individual that get's a nearly new vehicle both physically and mechanically. If you want to avoid any issues do as I've done above and save a considerable amount of time, trouble and insurance costs. I'd no sooner use Dino oil than drink gasoline. Maybe that sounds harsh, but it's simply so damn superior that it's rediculous. I'm amazed at the unending debates about this that continue to rage on. Just don't be a cheapskate and do the right thing..............

richn2 · April 2003

I will keep this short. I am trying to determine my next car: Mazda6, Accord, Camry / Solera, or Avalon. THe list was alittle longer (Acura TL,Saab 9.3) but they fell to the waste side..Premuim Gas yekes. I have been reading all the different boards for the past 2 months. I have also been researching the different cars for atleast the past 4 months. I am now more confysed then when I first started.
The Mazda6 group says the only issue with thier new car is the sunglass holder and the heated seat not getting that warm.
The Toyota forums is all over the place with issues.
The Accord forum will note 1 issue while somebody says it's either not true of problem has been resolved.

All I would like to know if possible is what are the main problems with the 2003 Accord and are they either fixable or livable.

BTW Im not here to slam any 1 car just want to select the best for my family.
Thanks in advance.
Happy Holiday to all.

bwia · April 2003

The Avalon does not compete directly with any of the cars that you mentioned. The Avalon seems to appeal more to mature buyers, that is, those over 50.

If you are willing to spend around $30,000 then you should also consider the Volvo S60, the Infinti I35/G35, the new 2004 Maxima or a slightly used Lexus ES300.

The Avalon is flawless, it does not require premium petrol, and for all intents and purposes it is a Lexus at a Toyota price (not quite). We call it the Lexus 399.

dylan383 · April 2003

I'm not over 50 and love my avalon. One of the reasons I like it over an accord, camry, lexus, etc. is the INCREASED ROOM. The back seat truly has a lot of space; which with one kid beats getting a big old van.

grinchee · April 2003

I'm not a very experienced car person, so I'm looking for a little advice. My company is taking back the company assigned vehicle (97 Maxima GXE 95,000 miles) average condition with no extras.

Question 1) Company may sale 97 Maxima at wholesale so what would be a reasonable offer from me?

Question 2) Thinking about buying an 2003 Avalon XLS with Premium Luxury Package w/ Heated Seat. Local North Georgia dealer will match carsdirect.com at $28,488 is that a good deal?

Question 3) Should I wait to May to see if Avalon has a manufacturer rebate? Do you think there's a high probability with this make/model? Most of Toyota's have rebates except for the Avalon in April.

Question 4) For a full-size near-luxury vehicle is the Avalon XLS the best value for less than $30K in your opinion?

Thanks for your advice in advance.

gnawk719 · April 2003

I have a new xls which is approaching 10,000 miles. What is the opinion on whether it is cost effective to rotate tires, considering that the cost can be between $30-40. Are you better off just riding the tires until all 4 need replacing saving the money that 3 or 4 rotations would require. Never an issue in the past because my company would pay for it, now retired.

joedbob · April 2003

For a one time only payment of $30-$40 you get tire rotation and balance every 5000 miles free for the life of the tires, even if you didn't buy the tires at Costco. Hard to beat.

fin · April 2003

If you don't rotate and rebalance the tires at all you might get 20,000 miles out of them, probably less, before the car is undriveable. And if the Costco deal in the preceding post is true..it sounds like a bargain. But will Costco guys watch out for those aluminum wheels? I have mine rotated and rebalanced at about 10k and replace tires about 40k (V rated) with little city traffic driving. A perfomance tire store does it, $40. each time. If you drive in the city you really don't have much choice but to rotate and rebalance. Enjoy the Av. Love my '03 loaded XL.

edmund2460 · April 2003

I just bought a V6 XLE Camry. Would have liked to buy a slightly used Avalon, but the prices stretched a little beyond my break point. To my mind, from the little driving done in the Avalon, the Cam is not far behind in ride room or comfort. I also got the upgraded VVT-I 5 spd auto. Can anyone tell me if and how this engine is related to either Avalon or ES300?

tmp89169 · April 2003

My '03 avalon XL with only 3000 miles has a rough down shift at about 18 MPH. This a coast-down event as I might come up to a stoplight. Most of the time there is no problem however maybe 15% of the slow down times will be rough. This roughness is quick and produces a type of thud feel. Has anyone had this type of problem? If so, I would like to know before I complain to the service dept. Any help anyone?

gerry100 · April 2003

I've not had an Avalon before, but have burned up a number of front drive company and personal cars.

I didn't rotate the tires but instead when the OEM front tires wore out I replaced the two front only. When the two front tires wore out again, all four were replaced. This way you could get to 100K buying just 8 tires and pay nothing for rotations. If you are driving 40-50K/yr in a northern climate you can also time it so that you
get fresh front rubber at the beginning of winter.

This works because the front tires wear twice as fast as the rears on a FWD car.

Of course this presumes that you like the make/model of the original equipment tires, which is not always the case. It worked for me with a few Tauruses and cab forward Chryslers.

mikem30 · April 2003

I recently purchased a 2003 XL. I asked the salesman why the GK package was more than the LT or LP packages which have more. He said this was not a mistake, but a decision by Toyota. I bought the LP package at invoice. Hope this helps!

travelerjb · April 2003

Well old obsessive me finally took delivery of my new 2003 Avalon XLS. Had them immediately drop the oil and filter replacing with Mobil One Fully synthetic (as I've always done with new cars for the last 20 years) and then took it directly over to ClearBra to have it applied to the entire front end, lower portions of the doors and rear trunk lid and bumper. With that said a conversation I had with the shop about undercoating was that the factory undercoating, so to speak, is limited and spotty and NOT as good as a 3rd party full undercoating. Should I get this done considering I travel from Ohio to the West Coast and during winter months incur salt and that new blue substance they spray on the roads to melt ice. Or should I leave well enough alone and just hand pressure spray off the underside and car as best as I can during the winter months and forget about the additional undercoating stuff?

grinchee · April 2003

Since I used this board to get information on good deals, I thought I would share my recent Avalon purchase. By the way thanks to everyone posting on the forum which helped tremendously making my final decision.

Briefly, paid $29.3K before TTL for a Silver Spruce Metallic 2003 Avalon XLS. I love that color especially with the ivory leather interior. First color choice would have been black but I'm too lazy to keep the thing that clean.

I think I got a decent deal but you can be the judge with the following options included: Moonroof, Sunroof Wind deflector, Cargo/Trunk mats/net, Skid Control, and Premium Luxury Package. According to the dealer, invoice was 29,999. Hard to tell with the Southeastern Toyoto distributor fees that get added but CarsDirect.com did agree with his statement.

The brakes are little rough/grabby when applied so I'm going to have the dealer look at them the first of next week. Anybody else having this problem?

Otherwise, I'm completely satisfied with the purchase considering the luxurious feel the car provides at not-so typical luxury prices.

travelerjb · April 2003

I finally got to pick mine up on Saturday afternoon after a complete ClearBra treatment. I was not about to allow rock chips to ruin that beautiful new Desert Sand (gold) metallic paint. Got the entire front end (hood, front fenders and front bumper area, doors below the side molding down, rear bumper and top of the trunk lid) done. It's just sitting under a car cover for now letting it cure. LOL. I'll be hitting the road again in a week or so anyway. I guess they are quite a bit more expensive out here in Utah as I paid $32,400 with all the taxes, license fees added on. Taxes and license fees out here are outrageous to begin with, but it has EVERY option allowed on this car, so at least I didn't miss anything. I already treated the leather with Meguires and the vinyl areas with 303 Aerospace Protectant, so it's ready to go. I am quite amazed at the performance of the upgraded JBL stereo system. I used to sell High End audio gear back in the 80's and this setup is quite impressive for stock. The power lumbar in the seats is going to really save my back as I can see already. It's even kind of weird to find that for the first time I have a truly usable arm rest on the console. While I'd have gotten rid of the old style parking brake (i'm used to the standard pull up lever in the console) I'll likely not use it unless I'm on a hill anyway. My brakes are butter smooth, so if you're aren't indeed have the dealer check it out. When I took delivery of the car I also drove it across to their own quick lube facility and had them drop that crappy dino oil and put my Mobil One in. I've done this for the last 20 years of new cars and wouldn't have it any other way. Now it purrs like a sleeping kitten. Looking forward to heading up to Idaho on the open road for my next trip.

grinchee · April 2003

If so, how do like it? I didn't get to see an Avalon with the navigation system so I'm curious on how it looks/performs. It wasn't a priority since I live in the rural Southeast and really didn't have more money to put into the car.

Thanks for the feedback on the brakes. I plan on having the dealer check it out tomorrow before I take any major trips. I'm glad to hear it's not a systemic problem. At least I hope not.

travelerjb · April 2003

I got EVERY option offered EXCEPT the Navigation system. I travel for a living, and after 20+ years of traveling the same routes from Ohio to the West Coast I rarely even need a road map. It would have been a complete waste of $$ for me, but the ClearBra is worth it's weight in gold for surface protection. If only they had some for the windshield I'd be all set. :-)

cusafr · April 2003

Could you tell me a little about the clearBra product? Exactly what is it? How much does it cost? Does it interfer with washing/waxing etc.

Thanks,

cusafr

sparky53 · April 2003

sparky53 · April 2003

To Grinche,.Good luck with your new Avalon.I have been looking for a deflector for my sunroof but am unable to get one from 2 dealers in my area.One dealer sold me one but it was for a Highlander & it was an inch too short.The other dealer said they will be available in July. Any help would be appreciated.

travelerjb · April 2003

While ClearBra has a web site that will explain just about every question you could ask (www.clearbra.com) there is a competeing product made in Canada that exceeds their (3M the manufacturer of the Expel/ClearBra product) specs. While I have 3 installers of the 3M product in town here (a 6mil thickness) I went with the installers of the Canadian made material as it is 12mil thick and stretches around more difficult to fit areas. It will thwart rock chips and bug splatters with the greatest of ease, saving not only painted areas but also your light and foglight lenses from destruction and pitting.

When I found out about this stuff several years ago I was astounded nobody thought of something like this before. I had it put on a new car my wife had bought, and we kept that car 2 years and recently traded it in on a new RAV4 (which we had immediately ClearBra covered as well). It kept that front end absolutely flawless for the 2 years we had it. We use a product called "DriWash N Guard" instead of waxes and such. It can easily be applied with NO deleterious effects on the Clearbra as it has similar Polymer characteristics to the material itself. DriWash N Guard also provides UV A and B blockers in the formula, from what I understand essential to the longevity of the ClearBra material. The dealer supplies you with a 16oz. container of 303 Aerospace Protectant spray with your Clearbra install here in town. He assured me EITHER can be used as long as one is used to protect the material from long term UV damage as that seems to be the ONLY thing that negatively effects it.

He suggested an application at least every 3 months to keep it like new. While my install was a bit expensive due to the coverage I got (entire front bumper, both front fenders, entire hood, A pillers, lower portions of all doors and kick panels, and wrapped the entire rear bumper as well as the top of the trunk hood) a typical install of the front end including the lighting and a taper across the front fenders and hood is around $500. Worth EVERY penny to avoid those damn rock chips and bug splats that abound from trucks and cars alike on the interstates (like I drive on for a living). I can no longer imagine getting a new car without this treatment. The last new car I had was a 2000 Saturn LS2 and the first 2 days on the interstate a semi flung up some rocks that immediately left several large chunks of paint missing in my hood. I was pissed, but that is very typical. Now the only thing I need worry about is the windshield, but at least that whole thing can be replaced for a new one instead of having to get a new paint job. Hope this is at least a partial answer to your list of questions........

eandylee · April 2003

The invoice prices of Toyota on edmunds doe not include the TDA of $675(Toyota Dealer Advertising fee) that the Toyota Dealers charge you.

So when a Toyota dealer claims Invoice+X you have to add $675 to the invoice price you see on edmunds.

Toyota is the only manufacturer does that.

All other manufacturere's invoice price exactly matched between the invoice price on edmunds and the dealers tell you.

Toyota Avalon 2004 and earlier

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