I haven't driven a TL yet since there are no dealers in my city. In general, I like the new Accord; however, I really don't like the quality/feel of the leather that comes in the Accord. It feels somewhat plasticy, stiff and cheap. I really like the leather in, for example, the Lexus ES 300 -- its a soft luxurious feeling leather. Can anyone describe the leather in the TL? Is it similar to the Accord leather? Is it a soft leather, stiff leather, or somewhere in between? Does it feel cheap (plasticy) or luxurious? Thanks in advance.
If interior refinement is your biggest concern then you can't go wrong with Lexus. TL's is propably better than Accord's leather, but is not on par with Lexus.
The TL leather is a definite step or two up from the Accord, as is the seat design. I have a 2002 Honda S2000 and, manual adjustments and all, think the leather seats (made by Recarro, I believe) are the best I've sat in. The TL seats are a notch below the BMW 5-series sport seats and Volvo, but are well above the Accord and others that simply put leather over a chair. The leather quality appears to be above average.
As for the Lexus comparison, I concur that they have some of the best interiors and leather quality in the business, but the seat design itself is not as form fitting as the TL. Not to mention that the rest of the car drives like a very high quality Buick. We may very well end up with a GX470 as our next SUV, but the Lexus line does not include a single sports sedan that I find enjoyable to drive. If you don't care that much about driving dynamics, the ES330 may be worth considering for you, but it never came close to making it to my short list.
Igiban and Habitat1, Thank you for your posts. I agree that the Lexus leather is outstanding; however, I too am not excited by the ES300 for the same reasons -- the ES300 seems more fitting for my father who is 72, and not for me at age 37. I am happy to hear that the leather is better than the Accord leather, and that the seats are designed better.
It's nicer than the Accord, but it's different from a Lexus. If you think the Accord leather is "plasticky," you might think the TL's leather is "rubbery." It is grippier, so you don't slide as much. If you want to see some plasticky leather that makes the Accord look like a Lexus, look at leather in almost any Pontiac.
Has anyone had experience with the TL A- Spec package ? I'm particularly interested in knowing how the suspension, tires and brakes affect performance.I plan to test drive one but would appreciate comments from posters who have one.Thanks.
I've been lurking the dark corners for the past few months researching this and that and I finally pulled the trigger yesterday on a Metallic Anthracite 6MT non-navi. Hopefully the dealer will find my baby in the next few days so I can get started breaking her in!
What I was wondering, has anyone had any experience self-installing the splash guards? Dealer price is too steep for something can be purchased for cheap on E-bay and that seems easy enough to install yourself.
Didn't try to install them myself. I did better than that...got the dealer to throw them in (installed and all) for FREE. You really should try to do the same. It only costs the dealer a little bit and if you threaten to walk away from the deal if they don't install the splash guards, they'll probably cave to your demands.
At least try it, and tell him that you've got friends who had this done at other dealers without any hassle, which is true.
Plus, get the trunk tray thrown in while you're at it. Some have also gotten the wheel locks and/or all-weather floor mats included for free.
I read the review by Mark Phelan posted by bigdaddycoats.
Seems to suggest that the TL is a very poor handling car, which is inconsistent with my test drive of a 6-speed. However, I will give another test drive myself to make sure before I make the plunge. After driving home in my S2000 yesterday with the top down in great weather, I sure don't want to trade it (and my Maxima) for a poor handler.
And not to discredit Mr. Phalen, but he does write for the Detroit Free Press and thinks the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP is the pinnacle of handling. Take that for what it's worth.
P.S. Has anyone test driven both the automatic and 6-speed extesively enough to notice a difference in their suspensions and handling? If so, comments?
I too read the review by Mr. Phalen of the 2004 TL. He claims that he had trouble keeping the car in its lane. As an owner of a 2004 TL six speed I have never experienced this problem. I find the car very relaxing to drive on the highway. On the highway Mr. Phalen was struggling to keep the car under control. Nor did anyone at Consumer Reports have this problem hmmmmm....
I've had a chance to test both versions of the TL... the only major difference I've been able to notice is torq steer... on the six speed it is more noticable than I thought it would have been... I was used to the atomatic by that time and wasn't expecting the pull of the wheel (also probably don't help that I've just learned how to drive stick but you know it'll all work out fine) as for driving the six speed seemed a little more confident when it came to handling charectaristics... partially because you could choose what gear you wanted to be in while going round the corners... personally there isn't enough to make me chose the six speed because of it... now say if the six speed made it handle like a 3 series well then yea I'd probably get it then..lol... but I'm not to big on stick yet so I consintrate more on my shifting for the moment being... as I get better I'm sure I'll notice more but for now I didn't notice a big differnce
I went back and looked at some of the previous reviews by Phalen. It appears this guy is owned by the Big 3 of Detroit. Or at least wants to kiss their rear ends so he doesn't get his kicked when the UAW guys see him in the local bar. That's one sorry [non-permissible content removed] job, writing car reviews for the Detroit newspaper. How in the hell could anyone really tell it like it is without ending up swimming with concrete shoes?
I'm still going to give the TL a mor thorough test drive myself, but Phalen has marginal credibility at best.
"And not to discredit Mr. Phalen, but he does write for the Detroit Free Press and thinks the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP is the pinnacle of handling. Take that for what it's worth."
Yeah, I wonder about that as well. I don't think mags such as Car and Driver would ever agree with his statements.
Wonder if Phalen ever says anything good about a non-BIG-3 car? That said, this is what he felt about TL's handling. Is there any validity on that from the current owners?
"This was most apparent over 40 m.p.h. Driving up Woodward Avenue, even slight bumps and changes in the road surface would lead the TL's nose to dip disconcertingly toward the next lane. The same wanderlust showed up in highway driving, creating the unnerving feeling that I had to hang on to the steering wheel for dear life at all times."
I always drive TL to a 30mph sharp corner/ram with more than 50mph speed, even 60. you might feel torque steer if more than 55. but 40mph, give me a break. even my accord can do 45 on a sharp corner with massive torque steer and I survive.
I've heard rumors that the 05 TL will offer an AWD option which should improve some of the concerns about FWD handling I've been reading about. Any info?
I'm not an engineer, but I don't thnik AWD dry weather handling would be any better and perhaps worse than FWD if it's essentially based off a FWD setup.
AWD will add at least a couple of hundred pounds to the car, but it will still be front heavy and, unless I'm mistaken, the car will still be a FWD car unless wheel slippage is detected. At least that's the way the MDX and Pilot work.
I'm sure an AWD TL will handle better in the slush and snow, but don't count on it being a better balanced car or better cornering on dry pavement. As far as I'm concerned, they can keep the extra 200+ lbs, especially given the TL's high horsepower, but low torque engine.
"...I don't think AWD dry weather handling would be any better and perhaps worse than FWD if it's essentially based off a FWD setup."
Actually, your assumption that Acura's new SH-AWD system works like other AWD systems or will perform any better or worse than FWD on dry payment is incorrect. When road traction is compromised not only does this system vary the power to the wheels appropriately, as with Infiniti, Audi, BMW, etc. -- it does something that no other drive system in the world does. It also varies power to the wheels based on applied G-forces the car endures, say in a corner turn for example. So, even on clean, dry pavement the system works to maximize performance and handling. In other words...the perfect drive system! And by the way, I am an engineer. ;-)
According to Autospies.com, the killer AWD system coming on the 2005 Acura RL (SH-AWD) will be an option on future TL's and TSX's. My guess is, no sooner than 2006.
I disagree.. The Audi A4 is based off a front drive system. Even with the extra weight, the difference is amazing. Now, whether the engine characteristics match the system remains to be seen, but the Audi seems to work no matter which engine option is used.
A local Toyota dealer has 1 98 TL 2.5,leather,130,000 miles. Is asking $7000,seems high to me for the miles. any thoughts. This would be for my 17 yr old son. thanks
I posted this question on another TL forum in Edmunds but did not recieve replies: Ordered '04 TL w/ Nav, Blue/Camel- Philly area. Told by dealer they will not have the car until Mid-June. Anyone having better luck?
I appreciate your explanation, but since you are an engineer, another questions. :-)
It would seem to me that the "killer" AWD system you describe would help offset some of the negatives, but aren't FWD and FWD based AWD cars just inherently imbalanced? Most are 60/40 front weight biased and still use the steering front wheels to pull the car through turns. I personally can't imagine a heavier AWD vehicle with a 60/40 weight balance feeling as crisp as my S2000 or the BMW M3.
kyfdx,
Which brings me to the A4/S4. I would acknowlege that the A4 Quatro seems to handle better than the FWD version, but it still feels front heavy to me and offers nowhere near the handling feel of a 330i, in my opinion. Same with the S4 vs. M3.
It seems to me that RWD with it's 50/50 weight balance and lighter weight is a better handling alternative than AWD with a 200+ pound weight disadvantage and 60/40 distribution. At least on dry pavement. But I concede Acura's system (and Audi's) may offer handling advantages over pure FWD.
"Balance" cannot be discussed on paper, nor are we discussing a purists sports car here. And, even a 50-50 split does not guarantee a low polar moment (which makes for a far more interesting experience).
In case of RL, SH-AWD apparently is setup to sharpen the run around the corners. ATTS from Prelude SH, now serving the rear wheels, with some improvements and additions to boot including a speed device which can turn the outer wheel faster than the inner wheel and should help the dynamics of the car going around the corner.
Are you sure you want a TL? It is a fine car, but you seem to worship at the altar of rear-wheel drive. I frankly was surprised that this was your choice.
I design software for a living, so you would think that I would be pretty good at correlating cause and effect, but this one has me stumped. Ever since I got my TL everyone else seems to be driving more slowly. I just don't understand why the minute I took delivery the rest of Toronto slowed down. I mean, how did they even know?
Yup, still waiting (patiently)! ETA is now mid-May. Just as well, I'm super-busy with tax season right now anyway.
The dealer actually brought one in last week on a dealer-trade from Alberta. They were nice enough to inform me of the circumstances and gave me an option to take it, or wait. I chose to wait 'cause I don't like dealer-trades, and I wanted to inspect the car before they prepped it.
Yes, I'm pretty sure I want a TL; however, there has been a delay in my dealer being able to get the one I want, so I am reconsidering based upon some negative comments I have heard about the handling from a few sources.
Obviously, in considering the TL, I need to be willing to make some trade-off between all out handling and overall versitility. Plus the overall package of the TL - features, aesthetics, high reliability, price, etc - is tough to beat. I just need to verify through another test drive or two that I am sufficiently pleased with my subjective opinion of the handling of the 6-speed.
My comments/questions have been more towards the "academic" side of the handling issue. I will be anxious to see, with all of it's ultra high technology, whether the "Super Handling" AWD Acura RL can match the simplistic old fashioned RWD 530i sport. Technology has helped my golf game, but I'm no Tiger Woods (or should I now say, Phil Mickelson)!
If you are worried about handling the TL is in a different league form your car.
I test drove both and was impressed with the six speed-the car as some get up to it.
Right now I am enjoying the "S" - what a sweet ride for an automatic.
I will be back in the market in 2006 when my car is paid off-by then the market should be flooded with lots of good choices, I saw them (cars) at the NYC Auto Show.
Has anyone purchased a warranty from this dealer in Mass. ? They have offered me a good price($1050) to insure my 03/TL with 48000 miles??? My local dealer (Gunn Acura ) are asking $1800 dollars.... big Difference.. Please tell me if you have had anydealings with Curry Acura or honda in Mass.
Curry is a Honda/Acura dealer that has been selling the Hondacare/Acuracare warranty online for years. If you are uncomfortable buying online, print out the offer and take it to your dealer, and he may match it. I haven't heard anything negative about Curry.
If it's a factory warrany it shouldn't matter who you buy it from.
I personally don't buy them. It's always cheaper in the long run (otherwise they wouldn't be making money off the extended warranties). Only exception is if you can't afford a large repair bill and you roll the cost into your monthly payment. But if you can afford $1500 to buy one now I would argue that you can afford to pay for a repair, even a major one.
thanks, I was afraid that they were a fly by nite company..At least someone other than me has heard of them. I have taken it to the dealer and he fed me this line about having it thru him is more personal...wow. But if i leave next month to another city...again i will be with a new dealer ...so no different than buying it thru curryacura dealer in another city. Have heard that no one will know where you purchased it anyway...Correct thanks about the no negative info. Regards sonny
I have never purchased a warranty on anything also..but I have put a lot of miles and had no problems yet....Just will feel better with the insurance..and yes I can afford to pay the large bill but will feel better if I could continue to take it back for any small problem ;....LOL Will it cover things like timing belt replacement? AC belts or only the AC?
Timing belts and exterior belts are maintenance items. I doubt those would be covered. It is only going to cover repairs, not maintenance. I believe Acuracare offers a scheduled maintenance contract as well, but that would be a different thing altogether.
That seems a bit long. Two weeks ago, my local dealer told me it would take 30 days to get me a blue/camel 6-speed w/o nav from the factory. I didn't want to wait, so I started looking outside my local area. I found the car I wanted and saved 1500 on top of it.
alright, which idiot thought of putting front wheel- drive in this new tl anyway? This car is great, except that. Geez, i thought acura would of got it by now. Americans want real wheel drive, not front. Down here in so cal, we dont need front wheel for traction. So whats up with the front wheel drive?
Comments
The TL leather is a definite step or two up from the Accord, as is the seat design. I have a 2002 Honda S2000 and, manual adjustments and all, think the leather seats (made by Recarro, I believe) are the best I've sat in. The TL seats are a notch below the BMW 5-series sport seats and Volvo, but are well above the Accord and others that simply put leather over a chair. The leather quality appears to be above average.
As for the Lexus comparison, I concur that they have some of the best interiors and leather quality in the business, but the seat design itself is not as form fitting as the TL. Not to mention that the rest of the car drives like a very high quality Buick. We may very well end up with a GX470 as our next SUV, but the Lexus line does not include a single sports sedan that I find enjoyable to drive. If you don't care that much about driving dynamics, the ES330 may be worth considering for you, but it never came close to making it to my short list.
Thank you for your posts. I agree that the Lexus leather is outstanding; however, I too am not excited by the ES300 for the same reasons -- the ES300 seems more fitting for my father who is 72, and not for me at age 37. I am happy to hear that the leather is better than the Accord leather, and that the seats are designed better.
If you think the Accord leather is "plasticky," you might think the TL's leather is "rubbery." It is grippier, so you don't slide as much.
If you want to see some plasticky leather that makes the Accord look like a Lexus, look at leather in almost any Pontiac.
http://www.freep.com/money/autoreviews/phelan22_20040422.htm
Spec package ? I'm particularly interested in knowing how the suspension, tires and brakes affect performance.I plan to test drive one but would appreciate comments from posters who have one.Thanks.
I've been lurking the dark corners for the past few months researching this and that and I finally pulled the trigger yesterday on a Metallic Anthracite 6MT non-navi. Hopefully the dealer will find my baby in the next few days so I can get started breaking her in!
What I was wondering, has anyone had any experience self-installing the splash guards? Dealer price is too steep for something can be purchased for cheap on E-bay and that seems easy enough to install yourself.
Contributions appreciated!!
At least try it, and tell him that you've got friends who had this done at other dealers without any hassle, which is true.
Plus, get the trunk tray thrown in while you're at it. Some have also gotten the wheel locks and/or all-weather floor mats included for free.
Be firm. Good luck.
Seems to suggest that the TL is a very poor handling car, which is inconsistent with my test drive of a 6-speed. However, I will give another test drive myself to make sure before I make the plunge. After driving home in my S2000 yesterday with the top down in great weather, I sure don't want to trade it (and my Maxima) for a poor handler.
And not to discredit Mr. Phalen, but he does write for the Detroit Free Press and thinks the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP is the pinnacle of handling. Take that for what it's worth.
P.S. Has anyone test driven both the automatic and 6-speed extesively enough to notice a difference in their suspensions and handling? If so, comments?
I'm still going to give the TL a mor thorough test drive myself, but Phalen has marginal credibility at best.
Yeah, I wonder about that as well. I don't think mags such as Car and Driver would ever agree with his statements.
"This was most apparent over 40 m.p.h. Driving up Woodward Avenue, even slight bumps and changes in the road surface would lead the TL's nose to dip disconcertingly toward the next lane. The same wanderlust showed up in highway driving, creating the unnerving feeling that I had to hang on to the steering wheel for dear life at all times."
Mine are autos, so that might makes a difference.
AWD will add at least a couple of hundred pounds to the car, but it will still be front heavy and, unless I'm mistaken, the car will still be a FWD car unless wheel slippage is detected. At least that's the way the MDX and Pilot work.
I'm sure an AWD TL will handle better in the slush and snow, but don't count on it being a better balanced car or better cornering on dry pavement. As far as I'm concerned, they can keep the extra 200+ lbs, especially given the TL's high horsepower, but low torque engine.
Other opinions?
Actually, your assumption that Acura's new SH-AWD system works like other AWD systems or will perform any better or worse than FWD on dry payment is incorrect. When road traction is compromised not only does this system vary the power to the wheels appropriately, as with Infiniti, Audi, BMW, etc. -- it does something that no other drive system in the world does. It also varies power to the wheels based on applied G-forces the car endures, say in a corner turn for example. So, even on clean, dry pavement the system works to maximize performance and handling. In other words...the perfect drive system! And by the way, I am an engineer. ;-)
regards,
kyfdx
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I appreciate your explanation, but since you are an engineer, another questions. :-)
It would seem to me that the "killer" AWD system you describe would help offset some of the negatives, but aren't FWD and FWD based AWD cars just inherently imbalanced? Most are 60/40 front weight biased and still use the steering front wheels to pull the car through turns. I personally can't imagine a heavier AWD vehicle with a 60/40 weight balance feeling as crisp as my S2000 or the BMW M3.
kyfdx,
Which brings me to the A4/S4. I would acknowlege that the A4 Quatro seems to handle better than the FWD version, but it still feels front heavy to me and offers nowhere near the handling feel of a 330i, in my opinion. Same with the S4 vs. M3.
It seems to me that RWD with it's 50/50 weight balance and lighter weight is a better handling alternative than AWD with a 200+ pound weight disadvantage and 60/40 distribution. At least on dry pavement. But I concede Acura's system (and Audi's) may offer handling advantages over pure FWD.
In case of RL, SH-AWD apparently is setup to sharpen the run around the corners. ATTS from Prelude SH, now serving the rear wheels, with some improvements and additions to boot including a speed device which can turn the outer wheel faster than the inner wheel and should help the dynamics of the car going around the corner.
And now, back to the TL.
regards,
kyfdx
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The dealer actually brought one in last week on a dealer-trade from Alberta. They were nice enough to inform me of the circumstances and gave me an option to take it, or wait. I chose to wait 'cause I don't like dealer-trades, and I wanted to inspect the car before they prepped it.
robertsmx - well stated
Obviously, in considering the TL, I need to be willing to make some trade-off between all out handling and overall versitility. Plus the overall package of the TL - features, aesthetics, high reliability, price, etc - is tough to beat. I just need to verify through another test drive or two that I am sufficiently pleased with my subjective opinion of the handling of the 6-speed.
My comments/questions have been more towards the "academic" side of the handling issue. I will be anxious to see, with all of it's ultra high technology, whether the "Super Handling" AWD Acura RL can match the simplistic old fashioned RWD 530i sport. Technology has helped my golf game, but I'm no Tiger Woods (or should I now say, Phil Mickelson)!
Back to the TL as the Host suggests.
If you are worried about handling the TL is in a different league form your car.
I test drove both and was impressed with the six speed-the car as some get up to it.
Right now I am enjoying the "S" - what a sweet ride for an automatic.
I will be back in the market in 2006 when my car is paid off-by then the market should be flooded with lots of good choices, I saw them (cars) at the NYC Auto Show.
My local dealer (Gunn Acura ) are asking $1800 dollars....
big Difference..
Please tell me if you have had anydealings with Curry Acura or honda in Mass.
Thanks
regards,
kyfdx
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I personally don't buy them. It's always cheaper in the long run (otherwise they wouldn't be making money off the extended warranties). Only exception is if you can't afford a large repair bill and you roll the cost into your monthly payment. But if you can afford $1500 to buy one now I would argue that you can afford to pay for a repair, even a major one.
Have heard that no one will know where you purchased it anyway...Correct
thanks about the no negative info.
Regards
sonny
Regards
sonny
regards,
kyfdx
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I couldnt take my eyes of it. Its so cool.
Congratulation, hals120. Watch out for tall puppy syndrome.